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Computing in 2023 (Read 2490 times)
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #30 - 04/15/23 at 00:18:39
 

ASML actually builds the super fine UltraEUV laser systems used to make the state of the art chipsets.

China is banned from getting these super fine UltraEUV laser systems, so they can order the stuff that they are allowed to use as used equipment from several Japanese companies ...... and then China can go build some Chinese stuff that is 3 generations back but is much better than not having anything at all.

Meanwhile, Intel is floundering along making some VERY SLOW progress in upgrading their Intel tech and rolling out (by inches) the Intel Foundry system.   Germany is not happy with Intel's slow progress on their German Fab complexes ...... but Germany isn't ready to pay 3x the original price for these complexes either.

Right now you can get a flow of new chiplets fresh from TSMC because of new CPU machinery being installed combined with the new conjoined ASML/TSMC packaging fabs that are being built in Arizona.  

Biden's money has begun to flow some now but TSMC isn't happy with the restrictive rules that come with the money.

AMD is able to get a flow of new chiplets and is rolling out new generations of stuff for testing with their hardware partners.   These get reported and fire off all the rumors we have been seeing.

RYZEN 5 and RYZEN 6 early samples have been built and tested.  AMD has plans to build at 4nm right now, 3nm later this summer and 2nm next year.  

As Intel cancels entire planned generations of Intel stuff as they get "overcome by events", AMD forges forward relentlessly ---- fully supported by TSMC.   TSMC development continues to move forward relentlessly propelled by Apple --- and as any new production capability comes open AMD is there to take what Apple isn't able to  use right then.

AMD can and does work with TSMC to design chiplets to use these new lithography levels.  Apple too is having some issues with 3nm chipset initial performance, so AMD is not out there alone with their 3nm issues.

Also AMD can "work away" any early production small lithography chiplets that have some production problems by using them in their processor assemblies as "efficiency" or little cores.  

Yes, you heard me correctly, AMD really only has one fully function main core design at 3nm and below, but AMD is willing to use any early production chiplet runs with "minor issues" as efficiency cores.  They match them up with AMD's mature trouble free 5nm core designs as the big cores ..... both AMD bigs and littles do two threads per core with the smaller 3nm cores actually packing more L-2 and L-3 memory per core (which actually bodes good for when the bugs get all worked out of those rather more powerful by design little cores)

If say a driver update winds up fixing these new design teething issues you mebbe could just wind up with a much more processor than what you paid for ......   Wink

Once the early production problems are worked out, AMD will be doing a gangbusters business with these new smaller lithography much more energy efficient and powerful chiplets.

Point to make again, the new little efficiency cores that AMD just shipped in the recent samples have more L2 and L3 cache that the current existing main full power cores do.  And AMD is listing some assembled chiplet variants for next year that are built with nothing but lots and lots of these new little efficiency cores.

Yep, some brand new great big mainframe chipsets are coming that are made up of just these high efficiency "little" chiplet cores are sampling late this year .......
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« Last Edit: 04/25/23 at 17:10:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #31 - 04/15/23 at 18:15:52
 
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #32 - 04/29/23 at 13:34:34
 

Intel is now doing some laptop stuff with TSMC's packaging of TSMC produced 5nm and 6nm Intel designed tiles.

When Intel toots their horn as a fab over this, realize that they (Intel) are buying their fab "capacity" from TSMC and are putting Intel's profit margin on top of what TSMC charges everybody for the same wafers .......

None of the tech used belongs to Intel.   Intel will lie about this set of details quite a bit, loudly claiming lithography sizes that are way smaller than the cheap, readily available TSMC lithography which is what Intel is actually using.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiOv...

Why is Intel having to do this?   Because AMD is running all over Intel using TSMC technology and Intel is at least 2-4 years away from having machinery that can do similar things.

Intel will get some TSMC sample chips made and then base Intel's power and efficiency claims off of those, then produce something roughly "similar" from their own rebuilt Intel production processes and then confuse and lie about it, ad nausium.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/23 at 16:34:47 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #33 - 05/02/23 at 17:16:21
 

AMD will now mix and match chiplets from Samsung and TSMC into AMD's component mixtures.

Samsung has just announced over 70% yields on their 3nm gate all around while TSMC's yields are less than 50% at this time.

TSMC is announcing 30-50% price increases on 5nm and below that are not actually built in Taiwan proper as costs are higher in other countries.

Microsoft is getting really tired of Intel and its groping fumbling approach to chip development.   Wintel is perhaps breaking up again ........

Microsoft for decades now has had a founder's design level position at both RISC-V and at ARM, Microsoft bought their status back when these guys first came out (back when it was very cheap).   Never did anything with it, but Microsoft is now showing signs of some activity.

Samsung and TSMC have both held the big dog position in the past, as when TSMC hits a fall down point at a generational change-over they sometimes turn around to see Samsung and IBM and NVIDIA have a thing going and these consortium groups will exploit the TSMC bobble for all it is worth.

AMD still has close relationships with all 3 of the current rebellion members, currently selling graphics designs and other "infinity fabric tech" to these new technical groups.

Intel currently has no seat at this table apart from wanting to belong to the group, but Intel brings nothing to the table that the rebellion needs or wants .......

Apple still has a 100% lock on all the good running TSMC process equipment at or below 3nm.  

This odd situation is driving other odd situations.   TSMC cannot drive the future when it is 100% sold out to Apple when also combined with the relatively poor TSMC yields on the latest TSMC 3nm and 2nm product lines.   There simply isn't enough TSMC new production output to touch all the overall demand.  

Long time competitor Samsung is coming in from the left with Gate All Around technology at higher process yields and lower cost and has now been accepted as a second vendor from AMD for AMD's newest levels of 2nm "little" chiplets.  

Watch out for the AMD big little thing as they may be coming from different vendors .......
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« Last Edit: 05/04/23 at 21:24:25 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #34 - 05/02/23 at 18:46:32
 

I just cut and pasted this sizeable chunk of stuff from another tab that was pointed back in time within the same thread on our our antique ABB motorcycle system, all the while running a browser tab using a Google chrome browser inside a Firefox instance.

This isn't really very possible, now is it?   Breaks lots of Microsoft Windows rules from years past ...... and tons of browser rules from both browsers, too.

I lack the processor head room to do instances of all of these systems all at the same time, and I certainly lack the permissions to move stuff freely between them.

So, do I need to get me a new machine yet?

Linux on an old 2009 Core 2 duo machine that is using a $24 SSD replacement drive.

This is arguably the oldest XP generation big box unit you would ever consider wasting your time on, but it still offers a lot of value and convenience for the $79 I paid for it, ($79 is also counting the $24 SSD drive I put in the bottom tray carrier after de-powering the huge slow spinning platter hard drive).

Still runs great for common tasks, it really does not require replacement at this time.

Linux Mint Mate supports it seamlessly, so I once again don't really need to go buy a replacement box right now.

Did I mention my most moldy Linux box is far faster than my wife's Win 10 machine?


=============================


https://youtu.be/l5a9jEtP-vg?t=57

Just watch it.   Microsoft as a corporation has just changed over to Linux on their employee desktops.  Ditto for most of the big IT corporations.

This YouTube presentation gets into the why of the switchover, which are many of the same reasons I use Linux on my old cheapie Dell box.

NOTE:  The presenter of this video accepts the BS Mickysoft position that you have to change out your Windows PC every 3-4 years in order to "stay current".    This may be true for a Win 7 - Win 11 box, but it is NOT TRUE for a Linux box.

 This is complete BS, I am typing this on a 15 year old Dell Optiplex tower unit that is still sound operational hardware.  Linux still supports it while Win 10 has pretty much stopped supporting far younger devices than my crop of golden oldies.

Yes, Linux is free and it doesn't cost me penny to keep it current is still the main reason I use Linux.

Yes, the YouTube guy bends over backwards to give you both sides of ease of use and I agree with him that using the command line is a task too far for general consumer users.

I don't use the command line beyond cutting and pasting somebody else's script to fix a specific issue or to install a really stubborn something directly.

Mint/Ubuntu avoids this hassle point completely.   Software Manager in Mint does almost everything for you, and for something that is completely off the wall or totally bleeding edge there are cut and paste scripts and snaps and flatpacks for stuff like that now-a-days.  

In the end, maintaining a Windows machine is simply more time consuming than Linux Mint Mate and it sure has heck costs you a lot more of your very own personal money.   Getting your wallet plucked endlessly by Windows upgrades is something we all know about --- you need to take action to stop that BS on your home machines once you go on Social Security.

I am letting my wife sip the Linux soda pop using my old Mint Mate box as she deals with her Win 10 machine getting all cranky on her.   Mint Mate still looks and feels like XP and she grew up in that world.  MS keeps telling her to go buy a new Windows 11 machine and she keeps using my Linux box more and more and more as Win 10 loses functionality.

An issue with only having only two threads available on my most antique Dell box has cropped up just lately.   I commonly update my machine running the update in one tab and running a browser in the other.   Occasionally, I run out of threads when the Systems Update asks for use of two or more threads to handle its own update functions.

When this happens, I get the spinning pointer saying system is busy for a few minutes until the log jam clears itself.

Does this signal that the end is neigh for this old box ????

No, not really.   This is due to everybody supporting game stations that commonly (and quite often) get caught out with lack of system resource issues.  So the game boys learned to buffer "everything" to M-2 drives and to excess system memory that isn't currently in use whenever log jams start to occur.   And they do it seamlessly, so you don't even notice you are using resources from elsewhere ......

So my oldest box Linux box running Linux Mint Mate just keeps on trucking at speeds that make my wife's Windows 10 box jealous.
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #35 - 05/05/23 at 08:44:30
 

Getting a stream of chatter about Microsoft starting up an ARM based chip set or two of their very own design.

ARM does well in very large steady load server applications and in smallish cell phone/laptop lower cost propositions.

Folks are losing confidence in Intel as a paradigm leader as all Intel has done lately is cancel lots and lots of stuff and lose lots and lots of money.

No one is hitching their company wagon solely to the Intel donkey any more, not without a second source plan from AMD , ARM or from RISC-V.  

Microsoft seeks to be a third option with their ARM based stuff.

Both AMD and Intel have upper level design licenses to do ARM processors and are also able to do RISC-V design processors.  

So does a whole sea of cell phone boys .......  

If somebody shows a compelling advantage to any non-Wintel processor system or OS, all the phone boys will all glom on to it instantly.

Apple has shown us this is possible to do --- so perhaps Microsoft will be able to do the same trick even better.


==================================




What has recently changed?   AMD has embraced several new standards bodies concerning interfacing with other people's chiplets ...... and with this comes a wide range of "other options".

We have seen AMD customer testing assembled chips that have some Samsung produced cores in them (featured as the latest "little cores") and we have seen Xilinx chiplet components show up inside a larger AMD completed processor as well.

Intel .......

Intel is stuck with a simple refresh of old ideas from last year glossed over with new names and new "superlative" lithography claims that will fall short in reality.   Fact --- Intel will soon be building some chips at TSMC using lithography levels that AMD is already shipping to the world right now ......  

Intel will tout them with new angstrom lithography names and state that the new TSMC built Intel stuff is xx% better than the old Intel stuff.  And this will be true (mostly).

Laugh when you read this though, as Intel is actually saying just how far behind they actually were compared to TSMC technology.

 
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« Last Edit: 05/07/23 at 09:44:44 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #36 - 05/07/23 at 09:15:37
 

As we ponder Intel needing to get TSMC to build and assemble their chiplets for them (yes, Intel is going with "tiles" that are built to the Industry Accepted Chiplet Interconnect Standards that are built at TSMC), let's take a brand new good look at the big progress chart again.



Right click on it and open the separate tab view, that way you can see all of the top quarter of the whole thing.

Lots of red, ain't it ?????

Intel has crashed down to new lows due to "no performance worth the latest high Intel costs" and AMD is now starting their own crash with the AMD crash being driven by "no customer demand for the newest highest priced highest performance chipsets ever".

As you look at it, just realize you simply cannot afford any of the top players any more as they all slowly approach 6 ghz .......  processor prices at the top end are doubling of late due to US Dollar declines vs the far east currencies.  

This all serves to help Intel to sell their old chip designs off of their old production equipment.


Wow.  Linus sees the same things that I saw.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ambaCzFTyo8&t=740s&ab_channel=LinusTechTips


==================================


As I look for the sort of stuff I can afford, I see more old Dell machines running Linux.   I have no AMD in my future, nor any sort of modern Intel stuff as I cannot afford such luxurious sorts of stuff.

Being blunt, I could use an M-2 slot bearing add in card to support my old Dell equipment.   I could also use an affordable graphics card.


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« Last Edit: 06/08/23 at 05:31:14 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #37 - 05/26/23 at 08:48:41
 
 Talking about affordable graphics card, man am I glad I bought into Nvidia back in the day, and purchased the AI GPU's.

 8 of them cost just over 200,000 6-months ago, they run 300-325 now.  AI is going to make Jensen over at Nvidia really happy, until Google can get their TPU project up and running.

 I wonder if lower end Nvidia GPU's will rise too, or if they can remain somewhat stable as the AI demand broadens.
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #38 - 05/29/23 at 06:43:24
 

https://liliputing.com/arms-new-chip-designs-promise-performance-and-efficien...

Intel is stuck between its aging out its old stuff and getting TSMC to finally build and assemble some more modern better performing stuff for them
(just relatively more modern stuff, Intel's designs are NOT really state of the art by any body's guesstimate).

ARM/TSMC is currently building some REAL state of the art stuff for Apple, AMD and Qualcomm who is going to be putting it in laptops as well as tablets and phones.
Qualcomm intends to take some market share away from Intel and keep it forever.

So, Qualcomm has announced it is going to be wiping up on almost all of the old Intel stuff and some of the older Apple stuff as well.

How embarrassing for Intel -- lapped by Apple, AMD, Qualcomm and ARM ......


.......  oh, how the mighty have fallen  .......


Intel has once again taken to secretly dropping in dedicated video and AI processing units on their substrate boards, items that are specifically tailored to "fixing" those areas where competitors are drastically better than Intel.

Intel has done this version of "cheating" for decades now and has gotten quite good at beating a given benchmark.   This is why Benchmarks are now distributed over many items now-a-days to control Intel's past BS behaviors.

Since the next generation of Intel is chiplet based, look to see efforts to claim "industry leading advancements" over what use to be relatively simple cheats.  Intel will claim that it does not matter HOW they achieve their superior results, but only that they can get to those results during their tame 3rd party vendor's benchmark testing.
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« Last Edit: 06/08/23 at 05:48:04 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #39 - 06/01/23 at 13:17:55
 

The Intel report from Computex Taipai show 

There isn't anything directly from Intel as Intel was a no-show at Computex and didn't even have a booth.

Nothing really new from Intel's tame vendors either, just some exaggerated claims for raising the temperature and amperage limits on the same old same old Intel Technology.

Many reporting sites are saying the same thing --- Intel is past news, Intel is not ever going to recover, Intel is not ever going to get much better unless TSMC builds it for them.

TSMC will not give or front Intel with exclusive use of their best stuff, this is technology they have already sold to Apple years and years ago.

Apple and AMD and Qualcomm both are in line to get TSMC's 3nm tech before Intel gets any of it.   Ditto for TSMC's 2nm tech for the following 2 years.

Intel can buy them some first gen 5nm TSMC tech and tell all kinds of lies about it (which is exactly what they are squaring up to do).

Intel at first gen 5nm --- Qualcomm and AMD at second gen 4nm  --- Apple at 3rd gen 3nm.   Next year Apple can drop to 2nm with the others following the same general distribution pattern as production space becomes available.

Intel's best native production is at a real 10nm and at a real 12nm and at a real 14nm (or higher) as Intel likes to front something at their lowest real process level, then quietly go up a lithography level or two when they get deeply embedding in making the things in real production volumes.  

Intel loves to lie a lot and rename their old moldy technology and give it wonderful new marketing claims that match TSMC and Samsung's best very real MUCH SMALLER technologies ......

Intel has done this same bullshite to their contract locked box vendors a whole lot over the years as the box vendors have no choice but to accept Intel's lead by terms of their binding contract, they can only take it in the shorts while moaning softly to themselves while keeping Intel's dirty laundry secret as Intel massively stuffs the whole thing up their shorts.

Note that Intel never states these changes publicly when they actually take place (except mebbe buried as a spec update deep inside their not widely publicized and very very misleading tech specifications).
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« Last Edit: 06/08/23 at 05:20:17 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #40 - 06/06/23 at 20:09:11
 

New Items

NVDIA is working closely with TSMC to use TSMC's new packaging technology.

NVDIA is designing interesting super chip sets to drive their new supercomputers.

Intel is not around at the moment, not anywhere to be seen ........    (Intel has nothing to say until TSMC builds their next processors for them)

AMD is relatively quiet too.    This is pending the release of their next wave of chipsets which are out now for vendor "issues and fixes" workups and OS testing.  Rumor has it that AMD can mix and match their x86 cores with ARM standard cores as AMD is designer licensed for all of them, so whatever becomes hot in the near future AMD can also do it too.  

However, AMD believes their general usage cores are energy efficient enough to rate as "as efficient Intel's small energy efficient cores" and as such AMD just puts forth their standard cores swinging two threads per core (note: Intel only gets one thread from their little cores).

Apple just put out a bunch of brand new, very very expensive but very good custom Apple stuff.

Qualcomm has not released their latest chipsets for testing and reporting, but ARM has announced processors with 3 different processor types in the new chiplet arrangements.
 
Yes, I do mean one much bigger & seriously fast X+ core, 3 standard sized big cores and then 4 little cores .......  

And yes, Qualcomm intends to take some market share away from Intel going forward with this class of chipsets ........  what Apple can do with released and custom modified ARM cores Qualcomm can go do it too.   Ditto for Mediatek or any of the other phone boys .......


Undecided

They are just a lining up to take turns on poor old Intel again .......

All Intel has is running their existing stuff hotter and faster and this particular Intel trick has just about run out as far as it can go.

Intel has just announced they are scrapping the Core i3-i7 designations and all their new stuff will get new designations.  Same old Intel BS, a new name on top of old technology doesn't make it either improved or better .......

Here is Intel ranked with everybody else right now, with AMD and Apple and soon to be Qualcomm eating their lunch again.  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #41 - 06/22/23 at 10:33:51
 


WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the box refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies stop coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the wholistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i5  and is greatly lacking to many modern laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.

I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.


==================================


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
   


Lightning Fast: Powered by Intel's top of the line Core i7 processor and loaded with 32 GB of DDR3 RAM, this machine will outperform the competition in any situation.

Massive Storage: You can store all of the apps, games, photos, music and movies that you need. 1000GB SSD Drive To increased speed!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

OK, I bought this Core i7 4th gen fixer upper pretty much fully loaded out in all its slots --- completely filled out with some pretty nice 9 year old "not quite current" technology for a fairly reasonable price of $183.  

I will likely spend some more money eventually on getting a higher rated power supply on sale and I will buy a used lower end gaming graphics card for it also.

Tongue      My greatest challenge in this build will be having to go back to Win 10 Pro as my operating system.     Tongue

My monitor can easily switch between input A and input B so I will keep my old Linux box operational while I build up my more current Intel tech gaming rig.

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« Last Edit: 07/02/23 at 13:00:41 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #42 - 06/22/23 at 21:54:52
 

https://www.reuters.com/technology/chipmaker-intel-restructures-manufacturing...

Intel is being told by Wall Street to offload any and all old secondary projects, to lay off another whole mort of manufacturing people and to prepare a new fiscal reporting system to allow each new Intel sub company to sink or swim by its own merits.

This smells like the beginning of the end for Intel.

The promised Biden bucks never came and Intel was unable to carry out any of the wondrous plans they had made in pursuit of Biden's nonsensical Build Back Better Plan.

Intel's issues are now so strong the whirlpool effect is pulling down all the American tech companies, costing billions in lower stock capitalization effects that are extending to all the rest of the American computer companies.


My old fix it upper machine likely represents the very last time Intel truly held the technical crown .......
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #43 - 06/23/23 at 11:07:37
 
how about a link to the fixer upper?
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #44 - 06/23/23 at 13:20:27
 
Hey, Oldfeller, why the switch back to Windows? Some software you need to run?

I can see having a windows machine around the house for "just in case something requires Windows".

In my case, it is Microsoft PowerPoint. I need to build PowerPoint slide decks for our church services. These contain some video and audio features and settings that are just not available in the online Powerpoint, Google Docs, LibreOffice or OnlyOffice. It also has to be local on the computer, for occasional offline use.

If it wasn't for that one app, I would dump Windows on all my computers, except for one laptop, which would be my "just in case".

I just picked up a laptop with Windows 11 on it. My #1 gripe with Microsoft is the requirement of a Microsoft account to log into the computer. Dang it! Computers are MY property. I don't want MS saying whether I can log into my own computer and then keep track of everything I do and then try to feed me ads. Granted, the same thing happens with my phone, but I don't have a simple alternative for that.
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