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Computing in 2023 (Read 2490 times)
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #15 - 02/24/23 at 15:19:29
 
You provide very detailed information.  I'm a software engineer, but I'm not very schooled in chip architecture.  My need to upgrade has reduced drastically in frequency since the glorious 1990s.  I don't play games, so I don't care as much.  I do wish we weren't as attached to the hip to Microsoft at work as we are.  Azure, Teams, blah blah blah.
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #16 - 03/03/23 at 21:19:21
 

Intel is recently been seen abandoning entire generations of Intel "progress" that have already been partially sold to Intel loving mainframe users as Intel has no path forward on the most modern TSMC ASML lithography (that Apple is monopolizing) and Intel has simply stopped paying on allocations they were paying TSMC to build a few new Intel graphics processors at TSMC facilities.

Real reason is Intel has not currently got the funds to continue to pay TSMC for it, and in addition their in house Intel new process efforts have all become "overcome by events".

Pessimists see Intel hunkering down waiting or China to invade Taiwan, just planning on having a small slice of the post Taiwan computing pie.

Click on the link below to see a graphic presentation of just how far Intel has fallen in the last calendar year.   Gelsinger is accused of "putting eyeshadow on a skunk" trying to make Intel look good to his shareholders.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/02/can-you-trust-intel-ceo-turnaround-...


https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/opinion-semis-top-five.279414/

Techspot has a harsh very recient read on the semi-conductor non-TSMC supported industry.


Here is our list for the top 5 semis:

*  The analog duopoly of Texas Instruments and ADI
*   Qualcomm
*   Nvidia
*   A Chinese chip company – TBD
*   The smoldering ruins of Intel



https://www.techspot.com/news/97578-intel-bad-place-they-need-admit.html

You just need to read this last article, it refers to its sources and it is very clear in its logic and its factual basis.

This is the 3rd major tech news reporting company that is now saying that Intel has failed to survive, we just need to acknowlege what we don't want to acknowledge in this matter.
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« Last Edit: 03/13/23 at 19:40:25 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #17 - 03/07/23 at 19:02:19
 
 
We get ready for a new set of red AMD steps ......





Here comes Intel with their "late 2025 at the earliest" response .....


yep, count them 10 little "tiles" alias Intel small chips glued to a daughterboard.  (note: Intel has also scragged the combo tile thingie for this upcoming generation, mebbe next generation after that, mebbe)


Unfortunately, Intel has scragged the early part of this transformation to Gen 14 Intel designs ---- Intel having given up on TSMC making the tile thingies for them due to Intel's technical and fiscal and scheduling issues getting in the way.  

In short, Apple has bought up all the new 3nm and 2nm production capacity that Apple and TSMC had co-developed.   AMD had picked up all the recently Apple abandoned 4nm and 5nm capacity at TSMC earlier, jest leaving Intel sucking hard at them stinky poot brown Intel vapor fumes all over again .....
 

 
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« Last Edit: 03/15/23 at 22:34:37 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #18 - 03/08/23 at 14:30:21
 

https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/03/05/intel-sorts-out-supercomputing-future-amid...

Intel Sorts out Supercomputing Future Amid Intel's Cancellation of INTEL COMBINED TILE CPU/GPUs
March 5, 2023

Update (03/06/23): Intel confirmed that the first Falcon Shores product would be a GPU only and would not integrate CPU chiplets on-package. The story has been updated to clarify that point.

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger is taking a no-holds-barred approach to cutting costs as he whips the company back into financial shape.

Intel has already exited seven businesses, and recently made wholesale graphics processors changes by axing products and changing its enterprise GPU roadmap.

Intel has scrapped a supercomputer GPU codenamed Rialto Bridge, which was advertised as the successor to its current Max Series GPU codenamed Ponte Vecchio.

“Rialto Bridge, which was intended to provide incremental improvements over our current architecture, will be discontinued,” said Jeff McVeigh, corporate vice president and interim general manager of the Accelerated Computing Systems and Graphics group at Intel, in a blog entry on Intel’s website.

The GPU was considered important to Intel’s expansion into the high-performance computing and AI markets. The cuts demonstrate Gelsinger is taking no prisoners as he tries to reverse Intel’s fortunes following a 60% decline in profits and 20% decline in revenue last year.



Slide showing the now-canceled Rialto Bridge specs, shared by Intel at ISC 2022 (May 2022)
The carefully worded blog entry credited to McVeigh warms up readers with Intel’s progress in GPUs, which is a new business. It also sows confusion on Intel’s supercomputing product plans, and leaves many questions unanswered on the company’s chiplet strategy.



Intel has a lot of backtracking to do --- with an Intel PR "brave new world" jest slam full of FALSE future claims that Intel has just yanked the rug out completely from under with these last abrupt abandonments and roadmap changes.

AMD, however, will continue to make steady AMD progress on the AMD items already announced as people are already lining up to buy them AS INTEL HAS NOTHING NEW COMING IN THE PIPELINE AT ALL FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS AS INTEL HAS NO TSMC CONTRACTS AND NO TSMC MODERN LITHOGRAPHY ALLOCATIONS PENDING TO MAKE ANYTHING WITH.

AMD/TSMC is 3-4 generations in advance of Intel right now, and that situation isn't going to get any better until 2026 or later.   I am looking for TSMC/AMD to pick up another two generations of better lithography before Intel makes any real lithography moves of their own ......

AMD has over 50 products in production that use the sort of chiplet tech right now while that Intel has just scrapped their plans on their "combined products" that would include the first real "Intel Tiles".   Intel had gone as far as even joining the open source interface consortium so that TSMC could build Intel some "tiled products" at TSMC facilites using TSMC technology, but that reserved allocation slot was abandoned by Intel abruptly just very recently.
Something about Intel lacking the funds to pay for it .......


Intel has also currently defaulting on their now two years old Germany Fab plans --- nearly doubling the cost to the Germans who would be just plain stupid to accept Intel's offer of obsolete Intel tech at such a premium plus (now just doubled) price.  

TSMC has offered Germany a better price than this for immediate construction of a 4nm facility that TSMC techs would then will help run.
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« Last Edit: 03/15/23 at 22:37:14 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #19 - 03/13/23 at 19:09:00
 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/intel-amd-and-other-industry-heavywei...


This article is all about chiplets and how to handle them.  Intel had developed tiles on their own and tiles isn't any form of a good open standard for other companies, so Intel now wants to join this new chiplet standards body so they can use the same chiplet interchange formats as the other guys to work to actively develop this standard of chiplet intermix and interchange format and to tilt it in Intel's favor.

This sort of position makes sense for a general use fab company.



Reading the "new stuff tea leaves for upcoming years" 3nm and 2nm TSMC lithography will signal a lot more cores per chiplet and a lot more numbers of various sorts of chiplets per aggregated completed processor.

Intel hopes to buy into this standard and be able to be able to simply buy other people's chiplets to make up for what Intel currently lacks (and so badly needs) in Intel's own chips.

Intel also hopes to perhaps develop some good Intel chiplets that they can produce that others will want to buy and use in their assembled chipsets.

If Intel cannot fill up their fabs with ongoing customer orders, Intel will not survive.   Intel cannot build just their own stuff any longer.

https://www.google.com/search?q=customer+foundr&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i10i160l...

The list of Intel Foundary Services customers right now are the US Department of Defense, Mediatek, Amazon AWS, and Qualcomm.  

All current Intel Foundary Service orders are relatively small and we now await to hear about the onging results of the first batches of Intel Foundary Services chips .......

Historically, Intel has had 3-4 failed attempts in the past building chips for other people, and only one historical success where Intel immediately turned around and bought out the company and the product actually became Intel's product from then on.


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« Last Edit: 03/15/23 at 22:32:05 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #20 - 03/17/23 at 18:48:11
 

Another two weeks of Intel "progress" .......

Intel has now dumped all their plans for the next two announced generations of "Intel Progress" and Intel is supposedly moving their roadmapped 3 year out stuff to happen late next year.  not gonna happen

Please allow me to translate for you:  We are broke and we got no money to buy new stuff.  When we get some of that Biden gov money finally, we will buy some stuff again.  

We think this might possibly happen within a couple of years so we will move all our plans out forward accordingly and Intel will simply formally drop all the stuff that is not really happening between now and then.   We will drop it when it becomes time to build it ...... along with putting out a new BS plan to build something else.

Two - Three years from now, will Intel even be considered a serious front line player in this industry?  You got Samsung and Mediatek and Qualcomm gaining some traction with ribbon FET gate all around tech at 4nm and 3nm and 2nm with TSMC/AMD making progress at the front of the main processor pack for their thrice refined SuperFin technology.

You got Intel simply renaming old Intel tech that was out of date last year and floating all sorts of BS plans and schemes to make what they can build seem relevant.

To Intel's credit, they did get some fairly good play last year out of the same old same old big-little phone world tricks before folks caught on to their current hot running BS fakery --- same old same old 10nm main cores with a whole lot of not very effective tiny single thread cores being built using same old big 10nm-14nm lithography.  

Intel's current trick is to just rename it several times like it is being measured in angstroms now instead of nanometers .......

Being fair and even handed, AMD is currently building some new chiplets using a mix of performance cores and smaller cores and special AI processors blended in with a small group of AMD's current graphics cores in each chiplet, all core types present in the ratios that multiplies out exactly right for mainframe users.  

Look to see the core counts of consumer AMD chipsets jump way way up as consumer uses embrace this same combo chiplet that will be used in many ways.   All use cases will have built in gaming graphics (if graphics core count is over 12 cores that is).  All machines will have the equivalent of Intel Iris graphics as that only requires 2 cores to generate that level of graphics.

This may be a useful concept for AMD if it works out well in practice ......    
AMD will simply have various chipsets built with these chiplets, no longer needing separate designed laptop chipsets since energy efficiencies will be there anyway along with all the needed functionalities.

AMD has some limited allocation space allotted at TSMC 3nm 2nd generation, but Apple has all the current 3nm main production TSMC stuff locked up tight.

Very limited allocation space is available on the smaller lithography levels, so AMD has to make the biggest bang possible with these new chiplets when they get some.

Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 03/23/23 at 22:35:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #21 - 03/19/23 at 03:26:38
 

Apple is now releasing some new products that are clearly superior to Intel's current best.  

AMD is starting to release a new generation of AMD mobile processors that are simply turning out to be clearly better than Intel's best main PC processors.

Both of these things are TSMC's new processes being simply that much better than what Intel is going to be able to offer.

How much better?   25% to 45% better on the very newest offerings.   Intel stands no chance trying to BS and dance their way past that much of an advantage.

But Intel will try, they will try.

Intel will cut the price of their most competitive offers very selectively in the areas where they still make something that is still in the running.

Intel will also jerk around the box builders mercilessly to get them to not use AMD's processors at all.   Intel is still paying off the massive fines from the last round of unfair predatory practice lawsuits the EU hit them with over previous Intel processor generations.
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« Last Edit: 03/21/23 at 18:17:30 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #22 - 03/19/23 at 14:24:26
 

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7045-dragon-range-enthusiast-laptop-cpus-offer...

Hey, somebody has spotted AMD's newest laptop chipsets beating up on both Intel and Nvidia laptops (and at a 52% raw improvement level these new products are lapping some of the more powerful Intel desktop chips as well).  These AMD products are doing just what I have been talking about, making a thin light laptop combined chiplet affair that simply COOKS the competition for performance while not getting all overheated about it).

AMD has sampled two further generations of improvements that are now waiting in the wings for a production allocation to happen.

We got AMD's big-little chiplets and lots more stuff (different functions and greater core counts) coming as well starting next quarter.

Intel is going to improve as well, so look to see the stair steps continue higher and higher ......
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« Last Edit: 03/21/23 at 18:15:22 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #23 - 03/21/23 at 23:47:11
 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shares-new-second-gen-3d-v-cache-chiple...


OK, we got our first look at the fine details on the new AMD combined chiplet conglomeration structure processor (speeds at 2.5 gigahertz per second throughput speeds). Shocked  

Two (2) of these stacked combo chiplets would do for a simple standard consumer PC chip, up to 12 of these stacked combo chiplets for a light mainframe or heavy workstation and up to 24 of these stacked combo chiplets for a real mega-machine.

All machines using this tech will have AMD gaming graphics built into them by accumulation, supposedly.   All lower level AMD machines get at least Intel Iris level graphics, the more complex machines will accumulate a full dedicated graphics card level of performance.

Open this image in a separate tab to be able to see the whole thing at once.




What makes these fun is AMD is going to roll them out at the existing 7nm lithography level making finding the allocations to build a bunch of them an easily done deal.

For once AMD won't be all TSMC capacity constrained while taking over the world again .........

Why use TSMC 7nm lithography?   You need some current carrying beef in the traces to handle the power side of things,  plus AMD can make this 7nm center I/O chiplet mate up with a variety of finer lithography layers at 6nm, 5nm and 4nm chiplets more or less at will.  

Current AMD/TSMC technology does allow different lithography within the assembled chiplets ......

Point to consider ...... NVIDIA isn't going to sell near as many graphics cards as they used to, especially when Intel matches the new AMD "built in graphics".

Huh


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« Last Edit: 03/22/23 at 07:39:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #24 - 03/22/23 at 06:51:14
 

So, do I need a new machine?

Linux on an old 2009 Core 2 duo machine that is using a $24 SSD replacement drive.

This is arguably the oldest XP generation big box unit you would ever consider wasting your time on, but it still offers a lot of value and convenience for the $79 I paid for it, ($79 is also counting the $24 SSD drive I put in the bottom tray carrier after de-powering the huge slow spinning platter hard drive).

Still runs great for common tasks, it really does not require replacement at this time.

Linux Mint Mate supports it seamlessly, so I once again don't really need to go buy a replacement box right now.

Did I mention my most moldy Linux box is far faster than my wife's Win 10 machine?


=============================


https://youtu.be/l5a9jEtP-vg?t=57

Just watch it.   Microsoft as a corporation has just changed over to Linux on their employee desktops.  Ditto for most of the big IT corporations.

This YouTube presentation gets into the why of the switchover, which are many of the same reasons I use Linux on my old cheapie Dell box.

NOTE:  The presenter of this video accepts the BS Mickysoft position that you have to change out your Windows PC every 3-4 years in order to "stay current".    This may be true for a Win 7 - Win 11 box, but it is NOT TRUE for a Linux box.

 This is complete BS, I am typing this on a 15 year old Dell Optiplex tower unit that is still sound operational hardware.  Linux still supports it while Win 10 has pretty much stopped supporting far younger devices than my crop of golden oldies.

Yes, Linux is free and it doesn't cost me penny to keep it current is still the main reason I use Linux.

Yes, the YouTube guy bends over backwards to give you both sides of ease of use and I agree with him that using the command line is a task too far for general consumer users.

I don't use the command line beyond cutting and pasting somebody else's script to fix a specific issue or to install a really stubborn something directly.

Mint/Ubuntu avoids this hassle point completely.   Software Manager in Mint does almost everything for you, and for something that is completely off the wall or totally bleeding edge there are cut and paste scripts and snaps and flatpacks for stuff like that now-a-days.  

In the end, maintaining a Windows machine is simply more time consuming than Linux Mint Mate and it sure has heck costs you a lot more of your very own personal money.   Getting your wallet plucked endlessly by Windows upgrades is something we all know about --- you need to take action to stop that BS on your home machines once you go on Social Security.

I am letting my wife sip the Linux soda pop using my old Mint Mate box as she deals with her Win 10 machine getting all cranky on her.   Mint Mate still looks and feels like XP and she grew up in that world.  MS keeps telling her to go buy a new Windows 11 machine and she keeps using my Linux box more and more and more as Win 10 loses functionality.

An issue with only having only two threads available on my most antique Dell box has cropped up just lately.   I commonly update my machine running the update in one tab and running a browser in the other.   Occasionally, I run out of threads when the Systems Update asks for use of two or more threads to handle its own update functions.

When this happens, I get the spinning pointer saying system is busy for a few minutes until the log jam clears itself.
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« Last Edit: 03/25/23 at 03:50:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #25 - 03/23/23 at 22:45:38
 

Intel dumps the last of their modem businesses.  Intel dumps the last of their AI chip businesses and fire sales the last of their Optane memory products inventory.  Al Gore dumps Intel from his portfolio.  Apple cancels the last of their Intel Mac Plus units.   The last contracts for Intel to build mega computers are overcome by events and are quietly dropped by both parties.  I look for this same "overcome by events' to happen to the two foundries Intel is supposed to be building in Europe as Intel has doubled the price tag on opening them way way late to the original plans.  

Uncle Sam is spending the gov. money that Intel was counting upon on ammo for Ukraine and other more pressing needs, so  .......

Things ain't looking so good for Intel .......

Intel has rolled back "their next big thing" 3 years, to happen in 2026-27.
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« Last Edit: 03/27/23 at 20:31:14 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #26 - 03/26/23 at 04:20:08
 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-allegedly-testing-hybrid-phoenix-2-apu



An unannounced AMD processor identified as Family 25 Model 120 Stepping 0 recently showed up in the MilkyWay@Home database. The CPU can process 12 threads simultaneously and the CPU expert @InstLatX64 believes that this is AMD's code named Phoenix 2 processor, packing two high-performance Zen 4 cores and four energy-efficient Zen 4c cores.

AMD's Phoenix 2 processor (which does not have a lot in common with the company's Phoenix APU) is rumored to feature two 'big' Zen 4 cores with 2MB L2 and 4MB L3 cache as well as four 'small' Zen 4c cores equipped with 4MB L2 and 4MB L3 cache, which is a rather surprising cache configuration. The APU is also said to pack an RDNA 3-based integrated GPU with 512 stream processors and has a DDR5/LPDDR5X-supporting memory subsystem, according to 3DCenter.


OK, Tom's Hardware is breaking the news on the new 4nm chiplet based big little from AMD.

This is classed as AMD Phoenix 2 (second generation Phoenix) and it is using some of the combined chiplet tricks just covered up thread.

It has six cores, of which two are state of the art highest AMD power cores and four new "smaller" cores.  All of the cores run two threads per core, and one questions how the jobs are going to be allocated without releasing the organizational software that will do these job allocations.  

Got me an answer to my puzzlement, the lesser cores are simply routinely sorted low performers that are actually built to the same design but perhaps produced on a slightly smaller lithography.  

First lots of the new lithography sometimes comes out of the gate a little slower than the best of the tuned old stuff, but quickly the new stuff becomes much better.

AMD places samples of their new stuff with real world partners who will fit the new AMD processors into their products while learning a whole lot in the process.  

AMD seeks debug information and actively seeks partner feedback on implementing the new features to best advantage.   Since AMD uses open source drivers, these efforts get reflected everywhere.

Intel can't get but one thread out of their littles and the Intel littles are only good for being allocated to just one task at a time.

AMD is going to be much more powerful and flexible and rumor has it the first AMD Phoenix 2 wave will land by Q3 this year in commercial products.  

Phoenix 2 will land with gaming graphics built in.   Phoenix 2 will come out of the gate with a mix of 5nm, 4nm and 3nm (chiplets can be built at any reasonably fitting lithography with center cores coming in at 7nm to handle heavier power issues and with the other being smaller traces as suits their uses).


...... now you understand why Intel is dumping off on their next 2 generations of stuff that they had already announced ---- Intel's planned stuff wasn't competitive to what AMD was actually rolling out for sampling so Intel promptly cut their losses by cancelling their stuff at once and basing their claims on new lithography that Intel does not own right now.


So, there really are several "improperly identified" AMD laptop sample processors undergoing testing at various vendors.   These APU style graphics bearing processors are leaking out a whole raft of rumors just very recently.

All of the rumors say the processors outdo existing similar AMD APU processors by 35-60%.

Take these new APU rumors with a shaker full of salt, especially the ones that say the new APU processors can out do certain existing Intel main big box PC processors.  Stay cynical until confirmation testing is done.


Some confirmations .......


https://wccftech.com/amd-hybrid-phoenix-2-apus-to-adopt-zen-4-performance-eff...



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« Last Edit: 04/13/23 at 08:25:46 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #27 - 04/02/23 at 04:05:50
 

Intel has now announced a three years out product generation to overcome the Phoenix 2 AMD stuff just sampled by AMD.

Intel has failed in their "5 generations in 4 years plan" already, having dumped 3 of these generations so very abruptly recently and then pushing back the remaining optimistic BS by 3 more years.

Intel knows they will push it all back again, at least one more time before the 3 years is actually up.

Intel will try to compete with what they have at the time, glossed over by false names and other forms of Intel deception.

By the time the 3 years are up, TSMC and AMD will be at 2nm or 18 angstroms or less for real, quite unlike the BS "theoretical stuff" that Intel is bull-shipping year on year.

Al Gore is not the only one dumping his Intel stock right now ........
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« Last Edit: 04/13/23 at 08:27:12 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #28 - 04/11/23 at 10:18:41
 

AMD is firming up AMD Zen 5 using big/little cores
(or more accurately as an intentional mix of 5nm cores and 4nm cores, built on the same general design but with differences in the total chip size and the cache amounts).  

AMD is still rolling with 2 threads per core and with much better thermal and energy efficiency numbers compared to Intel or NVIDIA.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-zen-5-cpu-is-scary-fast-according-to-performance...

This isn't just a rumor, this is the for real Jim Keller guy who originally designed the ZEN stuff talking out of school at a university presentation touting his new RISC V company named Tenstorrent.

THIS IS WORTH READING AS HE COVERS ALL THE VARIOUS PLAYERS

Here is his presentation slide that he showed the India kiddies.

Keller was doing the keynote for a Tenstorrent talk for university students in India covering the company's latest RISC-V chips for AI models and the future of computing.

Remarkably, Keller pulled up a slide with detailed performance numbers for a range of data center CPUs, including all existing generations of Zen, Intel's latest Sapphire Rapids chip, Amazon's in-house CPUs, Nvidia's  upcoming Grace chip and... Zen 5.




You will note the purple bar showing how Intel's next generation is NOT COMPETITIVE AT ALL and as such will likely be aborted and dropped by Intel as "overcome by events".

You will also note that Tenstorrent's new RISC V chipset (shown at the very bottom) .

So, spoiler alert, Intel is going under water to RISC V as well as way way underwater to AMD.

Jim Keller does not bullshite or fluff about this sort of stuff --- he simply goes out and outperforms his competitors ......

 
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« Last Edit: 04/12/23 at 21:35:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #29 - 04/12/23 at 21:28:13
 

Intel announces partnership with ARM to develop ARM chip building capacity into Intel Foundries.

I see a historically repeated pattern when Intel announces a partnership with a competitor.   Intel gains whatever knowledge they were after using the partnership, then Intel "invents" an improvement to the technology that they then later patent as an Intel intellectual property.  

Microsoft incorporates only the Intel version of the new tech into Windows ..... then Wintel proceeds to change the new tech into a Wintel cash cow.


==================================


Intel wants to build ARM chipsets .......

Intel wants to build RISC V chipsets ......

Look to see TSMC take actions to curtail Intel's newest intrusions into their key business areas.
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07/18/24 at 22:05:12



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