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Message started by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/06/23 at 03:39:53

Title: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/06/23 at 03:39:53

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/amd-keynote-ces-2023-10-082732915.html

This is a summary roll up of the new items in computing on laptops, desktops and data centers.

This is put forth by a investment news reporting service, Yahoo finance.  It is a collage of bits and pieces that are straight from CES 2023.

It is also a listing of ways AMD has moved forward, notably in ways that Intel simply cannot match (not inside the next 2 years anyway).

Intel cannot overheat and overclock enough to do these things.

Intel will push more funny benchmark metrics and more Intel marketing BS in the upcoming months as they try to avoid Intel's stock price going down yet more.

It is interesting that some pundits are now spitting on the Intel vs AMD contest, calling the win going forward for AMD.  

This "calling the contest" is premature IMHO as Intel will keep on struggling and will keep on effectively lowering everybody's prices just to keep their market share up as much as Intel possibly can.  

And a lower price really counts for a lot, as people buy for the lowest price available at that time to preserve as much of their scant post COVID money as they can.

Computer magazines are allowing Intel's games to continue just as long as Intel can find new ways to move the excess heat out of the units.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/06/23 at 04:28:55
 
Intel and Joe Biden


Joe had to delay (2 years worth) his promised 84 now 54 now48 now 23 billion dollars for moving computer manufacturing back to US soil.   All of the European partners are looking at Intel with a jaundiced eye as Intel's failures stack up higher and higher in the real world.

Intel is indeed going to default on a lot of Intel's European foundry deals and some of Intel's early USA commitments.   Bluntly, Intel lacks the funds to do what they promised in a timely fashion as Biden's promised foundry bucks are far too few and will actually be several years too late.

TSMC is moving in to pick some of these deals up (as Intel defaults on them) by offering better TSMC lithography levels at the same or slightly higher price structure.

Intel is currently pushing Intel 10mn lithography and a many times delayed future Intel 7nm lithography against a current very real TSMC 5nm and 4nm (and a soon to be offered very real 3nm TSMC lithography.)   TSMC can put a a foundry in complete faster than Intel can manage to buy and clear the land.

Having TSMC own and run a local foundry in your country gets the job done quicker and costs you less in the long run.   And getting some TSMC facilities out of Taiwan is better for the world geo politically as well.

Bluntly Intel is 2-3 lithography levels behind and is still losing ground year on year.


==================================


Next to consider is that the worldwide chip shortage is now over.   We currently have a chipset glut situation as automotive purchasing was in a panic and had grossly over ordered very significantly and now the Automotive suppliers want to cancel their inappropriate glut orders or else the automotive food chain will be forced to take the shipments and then then be forced to warehouse their glut for future use.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/28/23 at 06:29:28
 
Intel is in big trouble (financially) yet again .......   Intel is cutting 11% of their personnel and are cutting their new project stuff left and right to get some cash flow moving again.   Pat Gelsinger is TRYING to get Intel's spending in line with his much lower income for this year, but he is WAY OVERCOMMITTED by his Biden promises from this past year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-sunsets-network-switch-biz-kills-risc-v-pathfinder-program

In an attempt to trim their own overblown spending, Intel has abruptly abandoned most of their main program initiatives from last year and have curtailed all Intel dollar spending on their long list of "planned new fabs" that were actually had their land cleared and were partially started.   These are survival type decisions that reflect the severe financial constraints that Intel is under.

The Republicans have cut off most of the future spending on Biden's promised 84 Billion $$$$ in "bring the tech back home" bailout bucks, so apart from further illegal Democrat spending that stuff is all done now.

Intel has only placed orders on a very few graphics processors to run off TSMC's most modern second generation 3nm processor lines.   Intel may have an ASML scanner order in progress to build a few Intel 3nm lines of their very own, but this is very unclear at this time if this was just some Intel PR smoke or something more tangible.

Intel sales of existing Intel 10nm and 7nm processors are strongly tanking right now, leaving Intel to cut prices and profitability to simply move their overstocks of existing already built processors.

Both AMD and Intel are seeing a very slow moving sales of new finished processors, movement only takes place when a new "temporary" major price cut is announced.

AMD right now is simply holding on to their raw chiplet allocations as raw chiplets and are only assembling the finished processors that they actually have firm orders for.   This allows AMD to minimize their working inventory and improve their fiscal results accordingly.

Intel meanwhile still has to build out their entire finished Intel CPU processor, and then Intel must warehouse these very expensive jewels until they can move them on somehow.

Intel is still building out a brand new entire line of new processors and offering them to Intel's contractually bound box makers.   Intel's scrap rates are far higher than AMD/TSMC's rates, and this affects profitability.

Intel is losing money hand over fist due to their marketing plan not keeping track or being in line with the current realities in the embargoed Chinese computer market.   Intel is still making chips for the Chinese market, chips they are no longer allowed to ship directly to China.   Intel ships them to certain Indochinese companies (ones not currently under embargo) who then send them on to China on the sly.   This will be stopped shortly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLP02jAJq3w&ab_channel=Moore%27sLawIsDead

News for 1/31/23

Intel just lost another 11-13% of their stock value as yesterdays news hit on Wall Street.   AMD stock value also went down as stock holders have been made antsy by Intel failing so hard and so repeatedly in the last 60 days.  Because AMD lacks the massive set of issues that Intel is blessed with, AMD's stock price will cycle back up relatively faster.  

(as of 2/1/23 AMD had already bounced back from their hit while Intel stayed under water)

Here is a financial analysis of Intel's true market share and fiscal position.  

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4573781-intel-q4-earnings-delusion-and-intervention

Yes, AMD is choosing to not supply all that they could supply as they are 1) keeping their unit sales price up and 2) maintaining a steady large stockpile of their chiplets prior to assembly (maintaining AMD's contractual inventory as a backup inventory of unassembled chiplets which is a smart thing to do in a very uncertain environment).

Chiplets are far less costly to inventory than finished unsold processors --- this move makes AMD's financials better just by doing this simple trick.

2/3/23   INTEL'S BOARD OF DIRECTORS JUST CUT THEIR CEO PAT GELSINGER'S BASE SALARY BY 25% ALONG WITH MANY OTHER UPPER EXECUTIVES PAY RATES.   These were performance based incentives that turned out were never earned in hard reality.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/07/23 at 06:14:31

February Intel and AMD news .......


https://www.thestreet.com/technology/intel-confirms-chipmakers-problems-are-worsening


https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/04/amd-proves-intels-problems-belong-to-intel-is-amd/


Read these two items to get a feel for why Intel is tanking and is pulling the PC industry down with it.


And also why AMD is doing so much better than Intel in these troubled economic times.




Still, in an attempt to be fair and balanced and all that sort of stuff - - - -  Intel is still shipping the vast majority of processors that are put inside a pre-made box unit that is sold at Best Buy or Walmart.   Why?  Existing Binding Contracts --- Intel won't sell to you at all unless you lock in on a multi-year binding exclusivity contract with Intel.

Right now Intel's "influential industry leading pull" is really pretty minimal as Intel stuff really isn't as good as AMD.  Most of the major PC box vendors are keeping a foot in both camps so they will have something good to sell at all times no matter who wins in a given market segment.  

Intel is still announcing that "Intel will rule the world inside 3 years" (and Intel said so 6 years ago and every year since then).   Intel has dropped off over 50% of their raw new unit sales market share in this same time period.

Credit to Intel where it is due --- Intel did do pretty well last year pushing very very hard on some superheated processor tech that was 3-4 years out of date compared to the current leading processor tech from TSMC and AMD.  

Intel did this trick by using some noticeably better processor cooling technology that both AMD and Intel are now both using all over the place.   This tech more effectively gets the heat out of the CPU and out of the graphics chipsets and gets it out into the room ambient air instead of Intel simply frying in its own pig fat ......

Better CPU cooling that moves the processor heat out into the air in the computer room much more effectively makes up most all of Intel advancement as Intel piles on the hot running 10nm core counts, but this really does not influence the huge amount of raw heat that was being created by Intel in the first place.  

Thus calling Intel "an uncontrolled room heater" is still completely accurate.

;D

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/07/23 at 14:15:54

https://wccftech.com/intel-anticipates-further-market-share-loses-to-amd-through-2023-aims-to-re-establish-growth-by-2025/#:~:text=Intel%20Losing%20Market%20Share%20To,companies%20in%20the%20tech%20market.

Just last month, AMD achieved its biggest market share milestone with EPYC surpassing the historical share of Opteron and crunching away more share from Intel in the server segment.  Surely, AMD has come a long way and with solid execution and product launches year after year, they have continued to see a major gain in the PC market.

Intel Confirms Sapphire Rapids Xeon CPUs Have Been Delayed Once Again, Volume Ramp Pushed Back yet again.

Intel could definitely learn from this & it looks like they are by acknowledging the wins and leadership position of their rival AMD. We definitely want to see more competition in the CPU segment and Intel has a long way to go to catch up to the red team but hopefully, if they execute their product lineups properly, they will come close to the goal of being the market leader once again.

AMD leads Intel by three generations of real and significant processor advancements in both Mainframe and Server.   AMD will roll these same throughput improvements and energy advancement improvements into PC space over the next two years while Intel has very little in real Intel advances to announce in response to AMD's very real processor advancements.

Furthermore, AMD has concrete plans for a continuing stream of EVEN MORE MAINFRAME GENERATIONAL IMPROVEMENTS based on new TSMC generational lithography improvements which are to be built in new TSMC plants that will be built on American soil.

Compared to second generation TSMC 3nm, Intel has no modern facilities anywhere in the world.   Nor has Intel any concrete plans to build any advanced node processing plants.

Intel intends to once again use some older TSMC lithography levels (10nm and 7nm specifically) to build their next level of "Intel advancement" (which will be falsely named Intel 1.0 angstrom and 1.2 angstrom) to create a false impression of Intel making some serious progress.  

These new Intel "processor advancements" will roll forward in 3-5 years from now ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/11/23 at 06:24:04

REMEMBER,

Intel ranks speed off the one single fastest core out of their set of cores.

Intel ranks  power draw off the most efficient core out of their set of cores.

So, Intel speed comes from the best of the not very current lithography Intel big cores and Intel efficiency numbers comes from the wimpiest of the rather large lithography Intel little cores.  

AMD, however, expects all of their AMD cores (all AMD cores are big performance cores, BTW, built with much smaller lithography traces) to meet all the AMD advertised numbers.   Every AMD chiplet gets tested and ranked, so AMD builds only with selected "like to like" cores.


I find it amazing that some AMD big cores are more energy efficient than some of the much smaller Intel little cores contained inside an Intel big little processor.

This should not be totally amazing to us, since AMD cores are built to be energy sippers yet be big performers all at the same time.  

Basic core design at AMD is always done primarily to suit the mainframe "energy efficiency" users after all.   Then the designed for mainframe chiplets all get tested and ranked before general use in all of AMD's products.

AMD uses TSMC lithography nodes that are 2-3 generations ahead of what Intel uses --- this gives the best explanation as to how this can possibly be done by AMD.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/13/23 at 22:33:21

https://history-computer.com/the-10-largest-chip-manufacturers-in-the-world-and-what-they-do/?from=more_content

Also unexpected news, Intel is not the largest chipmaker any more by a large margin now-a-days.

TSMC
Samsung
UMC
Global Foundries
Intel
Qualcomm

Intel losing out to a better run Global Foundries has got to sting quite a bit ......

Intel has really fallen off the top of the heap and rolled down the hill a goodly distance.

Morris Chang of TSMC said it best a few weeks ago .......

"50 Billion dollars is not a large amount of money to spend on successfully starting up a fab."

Both TSMC and Samsung routinely pay amounts like 70 billion dollars every few years to keep their fab functions up to date.  

Intel lacks the deep pockets to do this "build a fab stuff" any longer.  

Intel now struggles to put together 20 billion $$$ of their own Intel internal funding and now has to get bailed out by Joe Biden with a promise of 50 plus billion dollars in government funding dollars, dollar amounts that in the end simply will fail yet again to get their Intel fabs up and running in a timely fashion.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/15/23 at 14:39:41

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16823/intel-accelerated-offensive-process-roadmap-updates-to-10nm-7nm-4nm-3nm-20a-18a-packaging-foundry-emib-foveros


Is Intel for real this time ????


The Short Answer:
If you only take one thing away from this article, I'm going to put it here front and center. Here is what we're seeing for Intel's roadmaps, based on their disclosures today.

http://https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16823/AnandTechRoadmaps3.png

As always, there is a difference between when a technology "ramps for production" and when it shows up for real in retail in consumer computers.  Intel spoke about some technologies as 'being ready', while others were 'ramping', so this timeline is simply those dates as mentioned. As you might imagine, each process node is likely to exist for several years before the replacement is brought forward, so this graph is simply showcasing "the leading technology from Intel" at any given time, it is not saying when it begins shipping for real.

This is a multi-page article written by folks who do not think Intel has been factual actual at all in the past 5 years.

They lay the harsh facts out and give support links to all their reported facts.   Intel has been lying a lot lately and applying new names to old existing technologies.   And the same goes for Intel's brand new roadmaps and all the support slides for the roadmaps.

Intel has not actually made a deadline or made a process upgrade that became real in the last 8-9 years anywhere close to where it was "announced" by Intel to be happening.  Delays over 3 years have been more common than things actually happening as announced.


....... so, if you are curious, click the link and read whole the article.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16823/intel-accelerated-offensive-process-roadmap-updates-to-10nm-7nm-4nm-3nm-20a-18a-packaging-foundry-emib-foveros

 

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/15/23 at 19:54:16

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shares-new-cpu-core-roadmap-3nm-zen-5-by-2024-4th-gen-infinity-architecture

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amds-data-center-roadmap-eypc-genoa-x-siena-announced-turin-in-2024

Having shown Intel's 2-3 years behind the times roadmap and explained it as well as we can, here is AMD's already real and shipping 5nm roadmap along with the 4nm and 3nm roll downs that will take place well before Intel executes their 6nm and 5nm roll downs.

AMD always leads with their mainframe chipsets and rolls the tech advances to consumer as a secondary effort.


Once again, we see AMD putting out plans for chiplets that have CPU, GPU, 3 levels of cache memory and modern Xilinx functions on the same chiplet.   This is because mainframe uses these functionalities at a known intermix ratio, so AMD might as well build it right into the chiplet design so it multiplies out correctly as the chiplet base core counts build up to range between 98 to 256 cores in AMD's largest and most efficient new mainframe products.

Being built on the same chiplet silicon, there are no interface delays or slowdowns for AMD compound design chiplets.   Distance to get to the functions and to the supporting memory are the shortest possible distance and these functions all run at the chiplet's fastest interface speeds.  Much of the compute tasks run locally on the chiplet level, and it is rare for a function's data calls to leave the processor itself.

These are the "core reasons" that AMD now owns the mainframe space as far as new unit sales go.

When these same chiplets show up in the smaller derivative PC designs in the consumer level products, you will have naturally occurring "built in gaming level graphics and strong AI functionality" everywhere naturally.

Intel simply cannot go to the same places as AMD currently can as both Xilinx and AMD graphics belong only to AMD ......

Mainframe users greatly appreciate POWER EFFICENCY, LOWER PROCESSOR TEMPERATURES, STRONGER FASTER COMPUTE WITH BUILT IN MEMORY AND GPU NUMBER CRUNCHING AND THEY ALSO LIKE THE PROGRAMMABLE XYLINX FUNCTIONALITY FOR MUCH STRONGER AI CAPABILITIES.

Consumer PC users will also like these things too, once they see what they can do in their desktop world.

I look forward to the up and coming 3nm AMD chipsets providing even higher core counts (16 cores to 32 cores) that are built with these newer AMD mainframe developed chiplet designs ......


http://https://graphics.reuters.com/INTEL-STOCKS/INTEL-STOCKS/klpygzxkmpg/Intel-AMD.jpg

As  you look at the first half of this chart, realize that AMD was under repeated chiplet supply constraints from TSMC's huge contracts with Apple.   Allocations were hard to increase once set because TSMC sold whatever extra new capacity they had to Apple first.  

Plus Intel actually did a few things right a couple of times too which also made life hard for AMD for a quarter or so.

Intel and AMD do like to kick each others asses every six months or so, but in the new environment where AMD can get all the chiplets they need when they need them AMD is doing markedly better in the boot to butt exchanges compared to years past.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/19/23 at 00:09:58

THOUGHTS ........

Mediatek Samsung and other ARM phone suppliers have begun shipping serious amounts of Chromebooks and low level Win 11 laptops.

Chromebooks are still taking share from business laptop PC sales as they get stronger and more capable.

Laptop format is taking more and more share away from desktop format, with big powerful gaming PCs being the last bastion of the desktop towers.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 02/20/23 at 07:03:37
I'd only buy a Chromebook if I could gut it and put my own version of Linux on it.  I used to replace the OS on my Android phones with less Googley ROMs, but that's becoming more difficult these days.


77545C5E5D54545D4A380 wrote:

THOUGHTS ........

Mediatek Samsung and other ARM phone suppliers have begun shipping serious amounts of Chromebooks and low level Win 11 laptops.

Chromebooks are still taking share from business laptop PC sales as they get stronger and more capable.

Laptop format is taking more and more share away from desktop format, with big powerful gaming PCs being the last bastion of the desktop towers.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 02/20/23 at 07:10:23
That's interesting news regarding AMD.  In the relatively few times I replaced motherboards/CPUs in my mini towers/towers way back, I used AMD CPUs to "be different".  Knowing myself, they must have cost a little less too.  

I have a Mac Mini M1 now, which is ARM architecture I guess.  The M1 (Apple Silicon) is Apple-owned/controlled, but who manufactures them?

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 02/20/23 at 07:14:03
Laptop format is fine, but I still need a big screen at home as I'm spoiled from dual 26" monitors at work.  I'm not a gamer, so what can fit in a laptop case / Mac Mini pizza box is fine with me.  Every time I buy a game system at my age I realize that I hate the complexity of the controls or gameplay. If it feels like being at work, then it's not fun for me.  I like FPS, but even those have mazes/lots that are too complicated.  Maybe I need to go back to breakout :P

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/20/23 at 15:00:36


https://liliputing.com/daily-deals-2-21-2023/           current good deals on good processors


J-Mac,

You can buy most formats of laptop machines at reduced prices right now as part of President's Day sales events at Walmart, Best Buy and Amazon.

We have some major chipmaking disruptions pending as major stock market guru types are abruptly dumping TSMC stock like crazy over the last two days.

We have military types saying China is completing a dress rehearsal of invading Taiwan as we speak.  The next event is going to be the real thing.

We have TSMC diverting all ASML shipments of new equipment to go to their newest 'off Taiwan' campuses, some of these campuses are in the USA along with other TSMC campuses located in other parts of the world.

TSMC will stock up on lots of new ASML equipment at a huge corporate cost and then let China/Taiwan inherit that huge debt when they invade and take over TSMC.

TSMC is putting a plan into action for the Company to survive the post Chinese invasion of Taiwan.   Movements of lots of key personnel out of Taiwan to the new campuses is part of this survival mode event that is taking place right now.

TSMC will sprout off these local campuses to run under the host country's laws as brand new non-Chinese corporate entities as the Taiwan take over occurs.  

TSMC is betting that their geographically diversified multi-national corporation will continue to survive post Chinese invasion.   China will be discouraged from taking over the golden goose by setting up some really tremendous debt to accompany that abrupt military take over by China.

Carefully planned sabotage of critical chipmaking equipment at TSMC Taiwan facilities is considered unlikely as TSMC plans to continue on after the takeover furor settles .......


:P

Note:  2/21 special note:   Intel has just yesterday announced a plan to/ 'skip over' some of their roadmap's laptop chipset generations as they have just skipped over paying on the TSMC production run allocations to build the things.
   
::)

So, there is not going to be very much difference year on year between what is being sold off by Intel for cheap right now from the newest stuff Intel is delaying the introduction of -- less than 2-5% improvement difference was seen by impartial outside reviewers that are testing out the Intel generations.  

So, the last 2 years worth of Intel stuff is practically identical within the grading and sorting variance that is considered 'acceptable" at Intel right now.  Discounting the changes in marketing verbiage it is all really the same stuff from the same outdated Intel production equipment.

Really, I'd chose to not buy Intel at all right now because of the afore mentioned "Intel specific issues' ........


https://liliputing.com/daily-deals-2-21-2023/           current good deals on good processors

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/24/23 at 14:49:20

Apple has locked down all of the third generation of 3nm + using TSMC lithography.  

Same story as years past, TSMC gets paid well for 100% exclusivity by Apple with Apple literally funding the development of the new TSMC lithography level so the TSMC lithography works well with the Apple chip designs that were co-developed by TSMC and Apple working in tandem during the development period.

People wonder why new TSMC Apple chipsets work so well when they first get reviewed.   For example, AMD has to work with TSMC processes that were designed and tuned specifically to suit Apple's then current processors --- and AMD struggles with that a bit right at first.   Intel cannot figure this out (simply fails to make the move into TSMC full scale production repeatedly).

TSMC 's 2nm lithography and Apple's newest  stuff are being co-developed now as well.  Neither is real at the moment, but the orchestrated development work continues .......

AMD is at 5nm TSMC gen 1 moving over to 5nm TSMC gen 2 right now and this is still 3-6 years more advanced than Intel lithography.

==================================

Apple/TSMC have just announced plans to roll down to 2nm in 2025 with a 3nm++ generation to take place next year.

Core counts and throughput speeds will jump up again .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 02/24/23 at 15:19:29
You provide very detailed information.  I'm a software engineer, but I'm not very schooled in chip architecture.  My need to upgrade has reduced drastically in frequency since the glorious 1990s.  I don't play games, so I don't care as much.  I do wish we weren't as attached to the hip to Microsoft at work as we are.  Azure, Teams, blah blah blah.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/03/23 at 21:19:21

Intel is recently been seen abandoning entire generations of Intel "progress" that have already been partially sold to Intel loving mainframe users as Intel has no path forward on the most modern TSMC ASML lithography (that Apple is monopolizing) and Intel has simply stopped paying on allocations they were paying TSMC to build a few new Intel graphics processors at TSMC facilities.

Real reason is Intel has not currently got the funds to continue to pay TSMC for it, and in addition their in house Intel new process efforts have all become "overcome by events".

Pessimists see Intel hunkering down waiting or China to invade Taiwan, just planning on having a small slice of the post Taiwan computing pie.

Click on the link below to see a graphic presentation of just how far Intel has fallen in the last calendar year.   Gelsinger is accused of "putting eyeshadow on a skunk" trying to make Intel look good to his shareholders.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/02/can-you-trust-intel-ceo-turnaround-plan/


https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/opinion-semis-top-five.279414/

Techspot has a harsh very recient read on the semi-conductor non-TSMC supported industry.


Here is our list for the top 5 semis:

*  The analog duopoly of Texas Instruments and ADI
*   Qualcomm
*   Nvidia
*   A Chinese chip company – TBD
*   The smoldering ruins of Intel


https://www.techspot.com/news/97578-intel-bad-place-they-need-admit.html

You just need to read this last article, it refers to its sources and it is very clear in its logic and its factual basis.

This is the 3rd major tech news reporting company that is now saying that Intel has failed to survive, we just need to acknowlege what we don't want to acknowledge in this matter.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/07/23 at 19:02:19
 
We get ready for a new set of red AMD steps ......

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/uAK37aiYM6keUFCxBBPXBX-1200-80.png.we



Here comes Intel with their "late 2025 at the earliest" response .....

http://https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Intel-Desktop-CPUs-_1-1-Custom-very_compressed-scale-4_00x-Custom-1-1030x579.png.we
yep, count them 10 little "tiles" alias Intel small chips glued to a daughterboard.  (note: Intel has also scragged the combo tile thingie for this upcoming generation, mebbe next generation after that, mebbe)


Unfortunately, Intel has scragged the early part of this transformation to Gen 14 Intel designs ---- Intel having given up on TSMC making the tile thingies for them due to Intel's technical and fiscal and scheduling issues getting in the way.  

In short, Apple has bought up all the new 3nm and 2nm production capacity that Apple and TSMC had co-developed.   AMD had picked up all the recently Apple abandoned 4nm and 5nm capacity at TSMC earlier, jest leaving Intel sucking hard at them stinky poot brown Intel vapor fumes all over again .....
 

 

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/08/23 at 14:30:21

https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/03/05/intel-sorts-out-supercomputing-future-amid-cancellation-of-gpus/

Intel Sorts out Supercomputing Future Amid Intel's Cancellation of INTEL COMBINED TILE CPU/GPUs
March 5, 2023

Update (03/06/23): Intel confirmed that the first Falcon Shores product would be a GPU only and would not integrate CPU chiplets on-package. The story has been updated to clarify that point.

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger is taking a no-holds-barred approach to cutting costs as he whips the company back into financial shape.

Intel has already exited seven businesses, and recently made wholesale graphics processors changes by axing products and changing its enterprise GPU roadmap.

Intel has scrapped a supercomputer GPU codenamed Rialto Bridge, which was advertised as the successor to its current Max Series GPU codenamed Ponte Vecchio.

“Rialto Bridge, which was intended to provide incremental improvements over our current architecture, will be discontinued,” said Jeff McVeigh, corporate vice president and interim general manager of the Accelerated Computing Systems and Graphics group at Intel, in a blog entry on Intel’s website.

The GPU was considered important to Intel’s expansion into the high-performance computing and AI markets. The cuts demonstrate Gelsinger is taking no prisoners as he tries to reverse Intel’s fortunes following a 60% decline in profits and 20% decline in revenue last year.

http://https://www.hpcwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Intel-Falcon-Shores-slide_Nov2022-768x429.png

Slide showing the now-canceled Rialto Bridge specs, shared by Intel at ISC 2022 (May 2022)
The carefully worded blog entry credited to McVeigh warms up readers with Intel’s progress in GPUs, which is a new business. It also sows confusion on Intel’s supercomputing product plans, and leaves many questions unanswered on the company’s chiplet strategy.



Intel has a lot of backtracking to do --- with an Intel PR "brave new world" jest slam full of FALSE future claims that Intel has just yanked the rug out completely from under with these last abrupt abandonments and roadmap changes.

AMD, however, will continue to make steady AMD progress on the AMD items already announced as people are already lining up to buy them AS INTEL HAS NOTHING NEW COMING IN THE PIPELINE AT ALL FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS AS INTEL HAS NO TSMC CONTRACTS AND NO TSMC MODERN LITHOGRAPHY ALLOCATIONS PENDING TO MAKE ANYTHING WITH.

AMD/TSMC is 3-4 generations in advance of Intel right now, and that situation isn't going to get any better until 2026 or later.   I am looking for TSMC/AMD to pick up another two generations of better lithography before Intel makes any real lithography moves of their own ......

AMD has over 50 products in production that use the sort of chiplet tech right now while that Intel has just scrapped their plans on their "combined products" that would include the first real "Intel Tiles".   Intel had gone as far as even joining the open source interface consortium so that TSMC could build Intel some "tiled products" at TSMC facilites using TSMC technology, but that reserved allocation slot was abandoned by Intel abruptly just very recently.
Something about Intel lacking the funds to pay for it .......


Intel has also currently defaulting on their now two years old Germany Fab plans --- nearly doubling the cost to the Germans who would be just plain stupid to accept Intel's offer of obsolete Intel tech at such a premium plus (now just doubled) price.  

TSMC has offered Germany a better price than this for immediate construction of a 4nm facility that TSMC techs would then will help run.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/13/23 at 19:09:00

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/intel-amd-and-other-industry-heavyweights-create-a-new-standard-for-chiplets/


This article is all about chiplets and how to handle them.  Intel had developed tiles on their own and tiles isn't any form of a good open standard for other companies, so Intel now wants to join this new chiplet standards body so they can use the same chiplet interchange formats as the other guys to work to actively develop this standard of chiplet intermix and interchange format and to tilt it in Intel's favor.

This sort of position makes sense for a general use fab company.

http://https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ucie-3-980x552.jpeg

Reading the "new stuff tea leaves for upcoming years" 3nm and 2nm TSMC lithography will signal a lot more cores per chiplet and a lot more numbers of various sorts of chiplets per aggregated completed processor.

Intel hopes to buy into this standard and be able to be able to simply buy other people's chiplets to make up for what Intel currently lacks (and so badly needs) in Intel's own chips.

Intel also hopes to perhaps develop some good Intel chiplets that they can produce that others will want to buy and use in their assembled chipsets.

If Intel cannot fill up their fabs with ongoing customer orders, Intel will not survive.   Intel cannot build just their own stuff any longer.

https://www.google.com/search?q=customer+foundr&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i10i160l2.10248j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8s+for+intel+foundry+services&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS838US838&oq=customers+for+intel

The list of Intel Foundary Services customers right now are the US Department of Defense, Mediatek, Amazon AWS, and Qualcomm.  

All current Intel Foundary Service orders are relatively small and we now await to hear about the onging results of the first batches of Intel Foundary Services chips .......

Historically, Intel has had 3-4 failed attempts in the past building chips for other people, and only one historical success where Intel immediately turned around and bought out the company and the product actually became Intel's product from then on.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/17/23 at 18:48:11

Another two weeks of Intel "progress" .......

Intel has now dumped all their plans for the next two announced generations of "Intel Progress" and Intel is supposedly moving their roadmapped 3 year out stuff to happen late next year.  not gonna happen

Please allow me to translate for you:  We are broke and we got no money to buy new stuff.  When we get some of that Biden gov money finally, we will buy some stuff again.  

We think this might possibly happen within a couple of years so we will move all our plans out forward accordingly and Intel will simply formally drop all the stuff that is not really happening between now and then.   We will drop it when it becomes time to build it ...... along with putting out a new BS plan to build something else.

Two - Three years from now, will Intel even be considered a serious front line player in this industry?  You got Samsung and Mediatek and Qualcomm gaining some traction with ribbon FET gate all around tech at 4nm and 3nm and 2nm with TSMC/AMD making progress at the front of the main processor pack for their thrice refined SuperFin technology.

You got Intel simply renaming old Intel tech that was out of date last year and floating all sorts of BS plans and schemes to make what they can build seem relevant.

To Intel's credit, they did get some fairly good play last year out of the same old same old big-little phone world tricks before folks caught on to their current hot running BS fakery --- same old same old 10nm main cores with a whole lot of not very effective tiny single thread cores being built using same old big 10nm-14nm lithography.  

Intel's current trick is to just rename it several times like it is being measured in angstroms now instead of nanometers .......

Being fair and even handed, AMD is currently building some new chiplets using a mix of performance cores and smaller cores and special AI processors blended in with a small group of AMD's current graphics cores in each chiplet, all core types present in the ratios that multiplies out exactly right for mainframe users.  

Look to see the core counts of consumer AMD chipsets jump way way up as consumer uses embrace this same combo chiplet that will be used in many ways.   All use cases will have built in gaming graphics (if graphics core count is over 12 cores that is).  All machines will have the equivalent of Intel Iris graphics as that only requires 2 cores to generate that level of graphics.

This may be a useful concept for AMD if it works out well in practice ......    
AMD will simply have various chipsets built with these chiplets, no longer needing separate designed laptop chipsets since energy efficiencies will be there anyway along with all the needed functionalities.

AMD has some limited allocation space allotted at TSMC 3nm 2nd generation, but Apple has all the current 3nm main production TSMC stuff locked up tight.

Very limited allocation space is available on the smaller lithography levels, so AMD has to make the biggest bang possible with these new chiplets when they get some.

::)

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/19/23 at 03:26:38

Apple is now releasing some new products that are clearly superior to Intel's current best.  

AMD is starting to release a new generation of AMD mobile processors that are simply turning out to be clearly better than Intel's best main PC processors.

Both of these things are TSMC's new processes being simply that much better than what Intel is going to be able to offer.

How much better?   25% to 45% better on the very newest offerings.   Intel stands no chance trying to BS and dance their way past that much of an advantage.

But Intel will try, they will try.

Intel will cut the price of their most competitive offers very selectively in the areas where they still make something that is still in the running.

Intel will also jerk around the box builders mercilessly to get them to not use AMD's processors at all.   Intel is still paying off the massive fines from the last round of unfair predatory practice lawsuits the EU hit them with over previous Intel processor generations.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/19/23 at 14:24:26

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7045-dragon-range-enthusiast-laptop-cpus-offer-up-to-52-percent-performance-increase-versus-intel-12th-gen-chips/

Hey, somebody has spotted AMD's newest laptop chipsets beating up on both Intel and Nvidia laptops (and at a 52% raw improvement level these new products are lapping some of the more powerful Intel desktop chips as well).  These AMD products are doing just what I have been talking about, making a thin light laptop combined chiplet affair that simply COOKS the competition for performance while not getting all overheated about it).

AMD has sampled two further generations of improvements that are now waiting in the wings for a production allocation to happen.

We got AMD's big-little chiplets and lots more stuff (different functions and greater core counts) coming as well starting next quarter.

Intel is going to improve as well, so look to see the stair steps continue higher and higher ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/21/23 at 23:47:11

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shares-new-second-gen-3d-v-cache-chiplet-details-up-to-25-tbs


OK, we got our first look at the fine details on the new AMD combined chiplet conglomeration structure processor (speeds at 2.5 gigahertz per second throughput speeds). :o  

Two (2) of these stacked combo chiplets would do for a simple standard consumer PC chip, up to 12 of these stacked combo chiplets for a light mainframe or heavy workstation and up to 24 of these stacked combo chiplets for a real mega-machine.

All machines using this tech will have AMD gaming graphics built into them by accumulation, supposedly.   All lower level AMD machines get at least Intel Iris level graphics, the more complex machines will accumulate a full dedicated graphics card level of performance.

Open this image in a separate tab to be able to see the whole thing at once.

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/G3VYnLjSGTtu3dohKd3gYL-1200-80.jpg.we


What makes these fun is AMD is going to roll them out at the existing 7nm lithography level making finding the allocations to build a bunch of them an easily done deal.

For once AMD won't be all TSMC capacity constrained while taking over the world again .........

Why use TSMC 7nm lithography?   You need some current carrying beef in the traces to handle the power side of things,  plus AMD can make this 7nm center I/O chiplet mate up with a variety of finer lithography layers at 6nm, 5nm and 4nm chiplets more or less at will.  

Current AMD/TSMC technology does allow different lithography within the assembled chiplets ......

Point to consider ...... NVIDIA isn't going to sell near as many graphics cards as they used to, especially when Intel matches the new AMD "built in graphics".

:-?

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/22/23 at 06:51:14

So, do I need a new machine?

Linux on an old 2009 Core 2 duo machine that is using a $24 SSD replacement drive.

This is arguably the oldest XP generation big box unit you would ever consider wasting your time on, but it still offers a lot of value and convenience for the $79 I paid for it, ($79 is also counting the $24 SSD drive I put in the bottom tray carrier after de-powering the huge slow spinning platter hard drive).

Still runs great for common tasks, it really does not require replacement at this time.

Linux Mint Mate supports it seamlessly, so I once again don't really need to go buy a replacement box right now.

Did I mention my most moldy Linux box is far faster than my wife's Win 10 machine?


=============================


https://youtu.be/l5a9jEtP-vg?t=57

Just watch it.   Microsoft as a corporation has just changed over to Linux on their employee desktops.  Ditto for most of the big IT corporations.

This YouTube presentation gets into the why of the switchover, which are many of the same reasons I use Linux on my old cheapie Dell box.

NOTE:  The presenter of this video accepts the BS Mickysoft position that you have to change out your Windows PC every 3-4 years in order to "stay current".    This may be true for a Win 7 - Win 11 box, but it is NOT TRUE for a Linux box.

  This is complete BS, I am typing this on a 15 year old Dell Optiplex tower unit that is still sound operational hardware.  Linux still supports it while Win 10 has pretty much stopped supporting far younger devices than my crop of golden oldies.

Yes, Linux is free and it doesn't cost me penny to keep it current is still the main reason I use Linux.

Yes, the YouTube guy bends over backwards to give you both sides of ease of use and I agree with him that using the command line is a task too far for general consumer users.

I don't use the command line beyond cutting and pasting somebody else's script to fix a specific issue or to install a really stubborn something directly.

Mint/Ubuntu avoids this hassle point completely.   Software Manager in Mint does almost everything for you, and for something that is completely off the wall or totally bleeding edge there are cut and paste scripts and snaps and flatpacks for stuff like that now-a-days.  

In the end, maintaining a Windows machine is simply more time consuming than Linux Mint Mate and it sure has heck costs you a lot more of your very own personal money.   Getting your wallet plucked endlessly by Windows upgrades is something we all know about --- you need to take action to stop that BS on your home machines once you go on Social Security.

I am letting my wife sip the Linux soda pop using my old Mint Mate box as she deals with her Win 10 machine getting all cranky on her.   Mint Mate still looks and feels like XP and she grew up in that world.  MS keeps telling her to go buy a new Windows 11 machine and she keeps using my Linux box more and more and more as Win 10 loses functionality.

An issue with only having only two threads available on my most antique Dell box has cropped up just lately.   I commonly update my machine running the update in one tab and running a browser in the other.   Occasionally, I run out of threads when the Systems Update asks for use of two or more threads to handle its own update functions.

When this happens, I get the spinning pointer saying system is busy for a few minutes until the log jam clears itself.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/23/23 at 22:45:38

Intel dumps the last of their modem businesses.  Intel dumps the last of their AI chip businesses and fire sales the last of their Optane memory products inventory.  Al Gore dumps Intel from his portfolio.  Apple cancels the last of their Intel Mac Plus units.   The last contracts for Intel to build mega computers are overcome by events and are quietly dropped by both parties.  I look for this same "overcome by events' to happen to the two foundries Intel is supposed to be building in Europe as Intel has doubled the price tag on opening them way way late to the original plans.  

Uncle Sam is spending the gov. money that Intel was counting upon on ammo for Ukraine and other more pressing needs, so  .......

Things ain't looking so good for Intel .......

Intel has rolled back "their next big thing" 3 years, to happen in 2026-27.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/26/23 at 04:20:08

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-allegedly-testing-hybrid-phoenix-2-apu

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/CEoxqWJuzLXgq3g3cC3tWD-970-80.png.we

An unannounced AMD processor identified as Family 25 Model 120 Stepping 0 recently showed up in the MilkyWay@Home database. The CPU can process 12 threads simultaneously and the CPU expert @InstLatX64 believes that this is AMD's code named Phoenix 2 processor, packing two high-performance Zen 4 cores and four energy-efficient Zen 4c cores.

AMD's Phoenix 2 processor (which does not have a lot in common with the company's Phoenix APU) is rumored to feature two 'big' Zen 4 cores with 2MB L2 and 4MB L3 cache as well as four 'small' Zen 4c cores equipped with 4MB L2 and 4MB L3 cache, which is a rather surprising cache configuration. The APU is also said to pack an RDNA 3-based integrated GPU with 512 stream processors and has a DDR5/LPDDR5X-supporting memory subsystem, according to 3DCenter.

OK, Tom's Hardware is breaking the news on the new 4nm chiplet based big little from AMD.

This is classed as AMD Phoenix 2 (second generation Phoenix) and it is using some of the combined chiplet tricks just covered up thread.

It has six cores, of which two are state of the art highest AMD power cores and four new "smaller" cores.  All of the cores run two threads per core, and one questions how the jobs are going to be allocated without releasing the organizational software that will do these job allocations.  

Got me an answer to my puzzlement, the lesser cores are simply routinely sorted low performers that are actually built to the same design but perhaps produced on a slightly smaller lithography.  

First lots of the new lithography sometimes comes out of the gate a little slower than the best of the tuned old stuff, but quickly the new stuff becomes much better.

AMD places samples of their new stuff with real world partners who will fit the new AMD processors into their products while learning a whole lot in the process.  

AMD seeks debug information and actively seeks partner feedback on implementing the new features to best advantage.   Since AMD uses open source drivers, these efforts get reflected everywhere.

Intel can't get but one thread out of their littles and the Intel littles are only good for being allocated to just one task at a time.

AMD is going to be much more powerful and flexible and rumor has it the first AMD Phoenix 2 wave will land by Q3 this year in commercial products.  

Phoenix 2 will land with gaming graphics built in.   Phoenix 2 will come out of the gate with a mix of 5nm, 4nm and 3nm (chiplets can be built at any reasonably fitting lithography with center cores coming in at 7nm to handle heavier power issues and with the other being smaller traces as suits their uses).


...... now you understand why Intel is dumping off on their next 2 generations of stuff that they had already announced ---- Intel's planned stuff wasn't competitive to what AMD was actually rolling out for sampling so Intel promptly cut their losses by cancelling their stuff at once and basing their claims on new lithography that Intel does not own right now.


So, there really are several "improperly identified" AMD laptop sample processors undergoing testing at various vendors.   These APU style graphics bearing processors are leaking out a whole raft of rumors just very recently.

All of the rumors say the processors outdo existing similar AMD APU processors by 35-60%.

Take these new APU rumors with a shaker full of salt, especially the ones that say the new APU processors can out do certain existing Intel main big box PC processors.  Stay cynical until confirmation testing is done.


Some confirmations .......

https://wccftech.com/amd-hybrid-phoenix-2-apus-to-adopt-zen-4-performance-efficiency-cores/

http://https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/amd-hybrid2.jpg

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/02/23 at 04:05:50

Intel has now announced a three years out product generation to overcome the Phoenix 2 AMD stuff just sampled by AMD.

Intel has failed in their "5 generations in 4 years plan" already, having dumped 3 of these generations so very abruptly recently and then pushing back the remaining optimistic BS by 3 more years.

Intel knows they will push it all back again, at least one more time before the 3 years is actually up.

Intel will try to compete with what they have at the time, glossed over by false names and other forms of Intel deception.

By the time the 3 years are up, TSMC and AMD will be at 2nm or 18 angstroms or less for real, quite unlike the BS "theoretical stuff" that Intel is bull-shipping year on year.

Al Gore is not the only one dumping his Intel stock right now ........

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/11/23 at 10:18:41

AMD is firming up AMD Zen 5 using big/little cores
(or more accurately as an intentional mix of 5nm cores and 4nm cores, built on the same general design but with differences in the total chip size and the cache amounts).  

AMD is still rolling with 2 threads per core and with much better thermal and energy efficiency numbers compared to Intel or NVIDIA.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-zen-5-cpu-is-scary-fast-according-to-performance-numbers-from-the-actual-father-of-zen/

This isn't just a rumor, this is the for real Jim Keller guy who originally designed the ZEN stuff talking out of school at a university presentation touting his new RISC V company named Tenstorrent.

THIS IS WORTH READING AS HE COVERS ALL THE VARIOUS PLAYERS

Here is his presentation slide that he showed the India kiddies.

Keller was doing the keynote for a Tenstorrent talk for university students in India covering the company's latest RISC-V chips for AI models and the future of computing.

Remarkably, Keller pulled up a slide with detailed performance numbers for a range of data center CPUs, including all existing generations of Zen, Intel's latest Sapphire Rapids chip, Amazon's in-house CPUs, Nvidia's  upcoming Grace chip and... Zen 5.

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/NPCQZ2eKBD9QiL83bxNXA9-970-80.png

You will note the purple bar showing how Intel's next generation is NOT COMPETITIVE AT ALL and as such will likely be aborted and dropped by Intel as "overcome by events".

You will also note that Tenstorrent's new RISC V chipset (shown at the very bottom) http://also clearly out performs Intel as well.

So, spoiler alert, Intel is going under water to RISC V as well as way way underwater to AMD.

Jim Keller does not bullshite or fluff about this sort of stuff --- he simply goes out and outperforms his competitors ......

 

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/12/23 at 21:28:13

Intel announces partnership with ARM to develop ARM chip building capacity into Intel Foundries.

I see a historically repeated pattern when Intel announces a partnership with a competitor.   Intel gains whatever knowledge they were after using the partnership, then Intel "invents" an improvement to the technology that they then later patent as an Intel intellectual property.  

Microsoft incorporates only the Intel version of the new tech into Windows ..... then Wintel proceeds to change the new tech into a Wintel cash cow.


==================================


Intel wants to build ARM chipsets .......

Intel wants to build RISC V chipsets ......

Look to see TSMC take actions to curtail Intel's newest intrusions into their key business areas.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/15/23 at 00:18:39

ASML actually builds the super fine UltraEUV laser systems used to make the state of the art chipsets.

China is banned from getting these super fine UltraEUV laser systems, so they can order the stuff that they are allowed to use as used equipment from several Japanese companies ...... and then China can go build some Chinese stuff that is 3 generations back but is much better than not having anything at all.

Meanwhile, Intel is floundering along making some VERY SLOW progress in upgrading their Intel tech and rolling out (by inches) the Intel Foundry system.   Germany is not happy with Intel's slow progress on their German Fab complexes ...... but Germany isn't ready to pay 3x the original price for these complexes either.

Right now you can get a flow of new chiplets fresh from TSMC because of new CPU machinery being installed combined with the new conjoined ASML/TSMC packaging fabs that are being built in Arizona.  

Biden's money has begun to flow some now but TSMC isn't happy with the restrictive rules that come with the money.

AMD is able to get a flow of new chiplets and is rolling out new generations of stuff for testing with their hardware partners.   These get reported and fire off all the rumors we have been seeing.

RYZEN 5 and RYZEN 6 early samples have been built and tested.  AMD has plans to build at 4nm right now, 3nm later this summer and 2nm next year.  

As Intel cancels entire planned generations of Intel stuff as they get "overcome by events", AMD forges forward relentlessly ---- fully supported by TSMC.   TSMC development continues to move forward relentlessly propelled by Apple --- and as any new production capability comes open AMD is there to take what Apple isn't able to  use right then.

AMD can and does work with TSMC to design chiplets to use these new lithography levels.  Apple too is having some issues with 3nm chipset initial performance, so AMD is not out there alone with their 3nm issues.

Also AMD can "work away" any early production small lithography chiplets that have some production problems by using them in their processor assemblies as "efficiency" or little cores.  

Yes, you heard me correctly, AMD really only has one fully function main core design at 3nm and below, but AMD is willing to use any early production chiplet runs with "minor issues" as efficiency cores.  They match them up with AMD's mature trouble free 5nm core designs as the big cores ..... both AMD bigs and littles do two threads per core with the smaller 3nm cores actually packing more L-2 and L-3 memory per core (which actually bodes good for when the bugs get all worked out of those rather more powerful by design little cores)

If say a driver update winds up fixing these new design teething issues you mebbe could just wind up with a much more processor than what you paid for ......   ;)

Once the early production problems are worked out, AMD will be doing a gangbusters business with these new smaller lithography much more energy efficient and powerful chiplets.

Point to make again, the new little efficiency cores that AMD just shipped in the recent samples have more L2 and L3 cache that the current existing main full power cores do.  And AMD is listing some assembled chiplet variants for next year that are built with nothing but lots and lots of these new little efficiency cores.

Yep, some brand new great big mainframe chipsets are coming that are made up of just these high efficiency "little" chiplet cores are sampling late this year .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 04/15/23 at 18:15:52
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/12/tech/taiwan-buffett-tsmc-sale-hnk-intl/index.html

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/29/23 at 13:34:34

Intel is now doing some laptop stuff with TSMC's packaging of TSMC produced 5nm and 6nm Intel designed tiles.

When Intel toots their horn as a fab over this, realize that they (Intel) are buying their fab "capacity" from TSMC and are putting Intel's profit margin on top of what TSMC charges everybody for the same wafers .......

None of the tech used belongs to Intel.   Intel will lie about this set of details quite a bit, loudly claiming lithography sizes that are way smaller than the cheap, readily available TSMC lithography which is what Intel is actually using.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiOvv_e98_-AhXdD1kFHbEOAvsQvOMEKAB6BAgJEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.anandtech.com%2Fshow%2F18836%2Fintel-meteor-lake-intel-4-process-now-ramping-for-production&usg=AOvVaw3_cgY0UYfkMVhjqjvAvSmn

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiOvv_e98_-AhXdD1kFHbEOAvsQvOMEKAB6BAgLEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.com%2Fnews%2Fintels-meteor-lake-begins-production-launches-this-year-on-intel-4-process&usg=AOvVaw0mMR9SJGbpxzeSVfYmib5j

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiOvv_e98_-AhXdD1kFHbEOAvsQvOMEKAB6BAgKEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwaretimes.com%2Fintel-14th-gen-meteor-lake-cpus-intel-4-in-production-20a-2nm-arrow-and-lunar-lake-in-2024%2F&usg=AOvVaw3QlpjiR7RDGOlNaQ-2sBiU

Why is Intel having to do this?   Because AMD is running all over Intel using TSMC technology and Intel is at least 2-4 years away from having machinery that can do similar things.

Intel will get some TSMC sample chips made and then base Intel's power and efficiency claims off of those, then produce something roughly "similar" from their own rebuilt Intel production processes and then confuse and lie about it, ad nausium.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/02/23 at 17:16:21

AMD will now mix and match chiplets from Samsung and TSMC into AMD's component mixtures.

Samsung has just announced over 70% yields on their 3nm gate all around while TSMC's yields are less than 50% at this time.

TSMC is announcing 30-50% price increases on 5nm and below that are not actually built in Taiwan proper as costs are higher in other countries.

Microsoft is getting really tired of Intel and its groping fumbling approach to chip development.   Wintel is perhaps breaking up again ........

Microsoft for decades now has had a founder's design level position at both RISC-V and at ARM, Microsoft bought their status back when these guys first came out (back when it was very cheap).   Never did anything with it, but Microsoft is now showing signs of some activity.

Samsung and TSMC have both held the big dog position in the past, as when TSMC hits a fall down point at a generational change-over they sometimes turn around to see Samsung and IBM and NVIDIA have a thing going and these consortium groups will exploit the TSMC bobble for all it is worth.

AMD still has close relationships with all 3 of the current rebellion members, currently selling graphics designs and other "infinity fabric tech" to these new technical groups.

Intel currently has no seat at this table apart from wanting to belong to the group, but Intel brings nothing to the table that the rebellion needs or wants .......

Apple still has a 100% lock on all the good running TSMC process equipment at or below 3nm.  

This odd situation is driving other odd situations.   TSMC cannot drive the future when it is 100% sold out to Apple when also combined with the relatively poor TSMC yields on the latest TSMC 3nm and 2nm product lines.   There simply isn't enough TSMC new production output to touch all the overall demand.  

Long time competitor Samsung is coming in from the left with Gate All Around technology at higher process yields and lower cost and has now been accepted as a second vendor from AMD for AMD's newest levels of 2nm "little" chiplets.  

Watch out for the AMD big little thing as they may be coming from different vendors .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/02/23 at 18:46:32

I just cut and pasted this sizeable chunk of stuff from another tab that was pointed back in time within the same thread on our our antique ABB motorcycle system, all the while running a browser tab using a Google chrome browser inside a Firefox instance.

This isn't really very possible, now is it?   Breaks lots of Microsoft Windows rules from years past ...... and tons of browser rules from both browsers, too.

I lack the processor head room to do instances of all of these systems all at the same time, and I certainly lack the permissions to move stuff freely between them.

So, do I need to get me a new machine yet?

Linux on an old 2009 Core 2 duo machine that is using a $24 SSD replacement drive.

This is arguably the oldest XP generation big box unit you would ever consider wasting your time on, but it still offers a lot of value and convenience for the $79 I paid for it, ($79 is also counting the $24 SSD drive I put in the bottom tray carrier after de-powering the huge slow spinning platter hard drive).

Still runs great for common tasks, it really does not require replacement at this time.

Linux Mint Mate supports it seamlessly, so I once again don't really need to go buy a replacement box right now.

Did I mention my most moldy Linux box is far faster than my wife's Win 10 machine?


=============================


https://youtu.be/l5a9jEtP-vg?t=57

Just watch it.   Microsoft as a corporation has just changed over to Linux on their employee desktops.  Ditto for most of the big IT corporations.

This YouTube presentation gets into the why of the switchover, which are many of the same reasons I use Linux on my old cheapie Dell box.

NOTE:  The presenter of this video accepts the BS Mickysoft position that you have to change out your Windows PC every 3-4 years in order to "stay current".    This may be true for a Win 7 - Win 11 box, but it is NOT TRUE for a Linux box.

  This is complete BS, I am typing this on a 15 year old Dell Optiplex tower unit that is still sound operational hardware.  Linux still supports it while Win 10 has pretty much stopped supporting far younger devices than my crop of golden oldies.

Yes, Linux is free and it doesn't cost me penny to keep it current is still the main reason I use Linux.

Yes, the YouTube guy bends over backwards to give you both sides of ease of use and I agree with him that using the command line is a task too far for general consumer users.

I don't use the command line beyond cutting and pasting somebody else's script to fix a specific issue or to install a really stubborn something directly.

Mint/Ubuntu avoids this hassle point completely.   Software Manager in Mint does almost everything for you, and for something that is completely off the wall or totally bleeding edge there are cut and paste scripts and snaps and flatpacks for stuff like that now-a-days.  

In the end, maintaining a Windows machine is simply more time consuming than Linux Mint Mate and it sure has heck costs you a lot more of your very own personal money.   Getting your wallet plucked endlessly by Windows upgrades is something we all know about --- you need to take action to stop that BS on your home machines once you go on Social Security.

I am letting my wife sip the Linux soda pop using my old Mint Mate box as she deals with her Win 10 machine getting all cranky on her.   Mint Mate still looks and feels like XP and she grew up in that world.  MS keeps telling her to go buy a new Windows 11 machine and she keeps using my Linux box more and more and more as Win 10 loses functionality.

An issue with only having only two threads available on my most antique Dell box has cropped up just lately.   I commonly update my machine running the update in one tab and running a browser in the other.   Occasionally, I run out of threads when the Systems Update asks for use of two or more threads to handle its own update functions.

When this happens, I get the spinning pointer saying system is busy for a few minutes until the log jam clears itself.

Does this signal that the end is neigh for this old box ????

No, not really.   This is due to everybody supporting game stations that commonly (and quite often) get caught out with lack of system resource issues.  So the game boys learned to buffer "everything" to M-2 drives and to excess system memory that isn't currently in use whenever log jams start to occur.   And they do it seamlessly, so you don't even notice you are using resources from elsewhere ......

So my oldest box Linux box running Linux Mint Mate just keeps on trucking at speeds that make my wife's Windows 10 box jealous.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/05/23 at 08:44:30

Getting a stream of chatter about Microsoft starting up an ARM based chip set or two of their very own design.

ARM does well in very large steady load server applications and in smallish cell phone/laptop lower cost propositions.

Folks are losing confidence in Intel as a paradigm leader as all Intel has done lately is cancel lots and lots of stuff and lose lots and lots of money.

No one is hitching their company wagon solely to the Intel donkey any more, not without a second source plan from AMD , ARM or from RISC-V.  

Microsoft seeks to be a third option with their ARM based stuff.

Both AMD and Intel have upper level design licenses to do ARM processors and are also able to do RISC-V design processors.  

So does a whole sea of cell phone boys .......  

If somebody shows a compelling advantage to any non-Wintel processor system or OS, all the phone boys will all glom on to it instantly.

Apple has shown us this is possible to do --- so perhaps Microsoft will be able to do the same trick even better.


==================================


http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/Hv4vPoGqvcjuEhSZNrD3bU-970-80.jpg

What has recently changed?   AMD has embraced several new standards bodies concerning interfacing with other people's chiplets ...... and with this comes a wide range of "other options".

We have seen AMD customer testing assembled chips that have some Samsung produced cores in them (featured as the latest "little cores") and we have seen Xilinx chiplet components show up inside a larger AMD completed processor as well.

Intel .......

Intel is stuck with a simple refresh of old ideas from last year glossed over with new names and new "superlative" lithography claims that will fall short in reality.   Fact --- Intel will soon be building some chips at TSMC using lithography levels that AMD is already shipping to the world right now ......  

Intel will tout them with new angstrom lithography names and state that the new TSMC built Intel stuff is xx% better than the old Intel stuff.  And this will be true (mostly).

Laugh when you read this though, as Intel is actually saying just how far behind they actually were compared to TSMC technology.

 
;D


Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/07/23 at 09:15:37

As we ponder Intel needing to get TSMC to build and assemble their chiplets for them (yes, Intel is going with "tiles" that are built to the Industry Accepted Chiplet Interconnect Standards that are built at TSMC), let's take a brand new good look at the big progress chart again.

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/EbG26eK8wiu8JSjD3938ZQ-970-80.png.we

Right click on it and open the separate tab view, that way you can see all of the top quarter of the whole thing.

Lots of red, ain't it ?????

Intel has crashed down to new lows due to "no performance worth the latest high Intel costs" and AMD is now starting their own crash with the AMD crash being driven by "no customer demand for the newest highest priced highest performance chipsets ever".

As you look at it, just realize you simply cannot afford any of the top players any more as they all slowly approach 6 ghz .......  processor prices at the top end are doubling of late due to US Dollar declines vs the far east currencies.  

This all serves to help Intel to sell their old chip designs off of their old production equipment.


Wow.  Linus sees the same things that I saw.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ambaCzFTyo8&t=740s&ab_channel=LinusTechTips


==================================


As I look for the sort of stuff I can afford, I see more old Dell machines running Linux.   I have no AMD in my future, nor any sort of modern Intel stuff as I cannot afford such luxurious sorts of stuff.

Being blunt, I could use an M-2 slot bearing add in card to support my old Dell equipment.   I could also use an affordable graphics card.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Eegore on 05/26/23 at 08:48:41
 Talking about affordable graphics card, man am I glad I bought into Nvidia back in the day, and purchased the AI GPU's.

 8 of them cost just over 200,000 6-months ago, they run 300-325 now.  AI is going to make Jensen over at Nvidia really happy, until Google can get their TPU project up and running.

 I wonder if lower end Nvidia GPU's will rise too, or if they can remain somewhat stable as the AI demand broadens.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/29/23 at 06:43:24

https://liliputing.com/arms-new-chip-designs-promise-performance-and-efficiency-improvements-cortex-x4-cortex-a720-cortex-a520-and-immortalis-g720/

Intel is stuck between its aging out its old stuff and getting TSMC to finally build and assemble some more modern better performing stuff for them
(just relatively more modern stuff, Intel's designs are NOT really state of the art by any body's guesstimate).

ARM/TSMC is currently building some REAL state of the art stuff for Apple, AMD and Qualcomm who is going to be putting it in laptops as well as tablets and phones.
Qualcomm intends to take some market share away from Intel and keep it forever.

So, Qualcomm has announced it is going to be wiping up on almost all of the old Intel stuff and some of the older Apple stuff as well.

How embarrassing for Intel -- lapped by Apple, AMD, Qualcomm and ARM ......


.......  oh, how the mighty have fallen  .......


Intel has once again taken to secretly dropping in dedicated video and AI processing units on their substrate boards, items that are specifically tailored to "fixing" those areas where competitors are drastically better than Intel.

Intel has done this version of "cheating" for decades now and has gotten quite good at beating a given benchmark.   This is why Benchmarks are now distributed over many items now-a-days to control Intel's past BS behaviors.

Since the next generation of Intel is chiplet based, look to see efforts to claim "industry leading advancements" over what use to be relatively simple cheats.  Intel will claim that it does not matter HOW they achieve their superior results, but only that they can get to those results during their tame 3rd party vendor's benchmark testing.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/01/23 at 13:17:55

The Intel report from Computex Taipai show 

There isn't anything directly from Intel as Intel was a no-show at Computex and didn't even have a booth.

Nothing really new from Intel's tame vendors either, just some exaggerated claims for raising the temperature and amperage limits on the same old same old Intel Technology.

Many reporting sites are saying the same thing --- Intel is past news, Intel is not ever going to recover, Intel is not ever going to get much better unless TSMC builds it for them.

TSMC will not give or front Intel with exclusive use of their best stuff, this is technology they have already sold to Apple years and years ago.

Apple and AMD and Qualcomm both are in line to get TSMC's 3nm tech before Intel gets any of it.   Ditto for TSMC's 2nm tech for the following 2 years.

Intel can buy them some first gen 5nm TSMC tech and tell all kinds of lies about it (which is exactly what they are squaring up to do).

Intel at first gen 5nm --- Qualcomm and AMD at second gen 4nm  --- Apple at 3rd gen 3nm.   Next year Apple can drop to 2nm with the others following the same general distribution pattern as production space becomes available.

Intel's best native production is at a real 10nm and at a real 12nm and at a real 14nm (or higher) as Intel likes to front something at their lowest real process level, then quietly go up a lithography level or two when they get deeply embedding in making the things in real production volumes.  

Intel loves to lie a lot and rename their old moldy technology and give it wonderful new marketing claims that match TSMC and Samsung's best very real MUCH SMALLER technologies ......

Intel has done this same bullshite to their contract locked box vendors a whole lot over the years as the box vendors have no choice but to accept Intel's lead by terms of their binding contract, they can only take it in the shorts while moaning softly to themselves while keeping Intel's dirty laundry secret as Intel massively stuffs the whole thing up their shorts.

Note that Intel never states these changes publicly when they actually take place (except mebbe buried as a spec update deep inside their not widely publicized and very very misleading tech specifications).

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/06/23 at 20:09:11

New Items

NVDIA is working closely with TSMC to use TSMC's new packaging technology.

NVDIA is designing interesting super chip sets to drive their new supercomputers.

Intel is not around at the moment, not anywhere to be seen ........    (Intel has nothing to say until TSMC builds their next processors for them)

AMD is relatively quiet too.    This is pending the release of their next wave of chipsets which are out now for vendor "issues and fixes" workups and OS testing.  Rumor has it that AMD can mix and match their x86 cores with ARM standard cores as AMD is designer licensed for all of them, so whatever becomes hot in the near future AMD can also do it too.  

However, AMD believes their general usage cores are energy efficient enough to rate as "as efficient Intel's small energy efficient cores" and as such AMD just puts forth their standard cores swinging two threads per core (note: Intel only gets one thread from their little cores).

Apple just put out a bunch of brand new, very very expensive but very good custom Apple stuff.

Qualcomm has not released their latest chipsets for testing and reporting, but ARM has announced processors with 3 different processor types in the new chiplet arrangements.
 
Yes, I do mean one much bigger & seriously fast X+ core, 3 standard sized big cores and then 4 little cores .......  

And yes, Qualcomm intends to take some market share away from Intel going forward with this class of chipsets ........  what Apple can do with released and custom modified ARM cores Qualcomm can go do it too.   Ditto for Mediatek or any of the other phone boys .......


:-/

They are just a lining up to take turns on poor old Intel again .......

All Intel has is running their existing stuff hotter and faster and this particular Intel trick has just about run out as far as it can go.

Intel has just announced they are scrapping the Core i3-i7 designations and all their new stuff will get new designations.  Same old Intel BS, a new name on top of old technology doesn't make it either improved or better .......

Here is Intel ranked with everybody else right now, with AMD and Apple and soon to be Qualcomm eating their lunch again.  

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/EbG26eK8wiu8JSjD3938ZQ-970-80.png.we

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/22/23 at 10:33:51


WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the box refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies stop coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the wholistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i5  and is greatly lacking to many modern laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.

I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.


==================================


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
   
http://https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61VbcdeTHcL._AC_UL232_SR232,232_.jpg

Lightning Fast: Powered by Intel's top of the line Core i7 processor and loaded with 32 GB of DDR3 RAM, this machine will outperform the competition in any situation.

Massive Storage: You can store all of the apps, games, photos, music and movies that you need. 1000GB SSD Drive To increased speed!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

OK, I bought this Core i7 4th gen fixer upper pretty much fully loaded out in all its slots --- completely filled out with some pretty nice 9 year old "not quite current" technology for a fairly reasonable price of $183.  

I will likely spend some more money eventually on getting a higher rated power supply on sale and I will buy a used lower end gaming graphics card for it also.

:P      My greatest challenge in this build will be having to go back to Win 10 Pro as my operating system.     :P

My monitor can easily switch between input A and input B so I will keep my old Linux box operational while I build up my more current Intel tech gaming rig.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/22/23 at 21:54:52

https://www.reuters.com/technology/chipmaker-intel-restructures-manufacturing-business-2023-06-21/

Intel is being told by Wall Street to offload any and all old secondary projects, to lay off another whole mort of manufacturing people and to prepare a new fiscal reporting system to allow each new Intel sub company to sink or swim by its own merits.

This smells like the beginning of the end for Intel.

The promised Biden bucks never came and Intel was unable to carry out any of the wondrous plans they had made in pursuit of Biden's nonsensical Build Back Better Plan.

Intel's issues are now so strong the whirlpool effect is pulling down all the American tech companies, costing billions in lower stock capitalization effects that are extending to all the rest of the American computer companies.


My old fix it upper machine likely represents the very last time Intel truly held the technical crown .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/23 at 11:07:37
how about a link to the fixer upper?

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by bobert_FSO on 06/23/23 at 13:20:27
Hey, Oldfeller, why the switch back to Windows? Some software you need to run?

I can see having a windows machine around the house for "just in case something requires Windows".

In my case, it is Microsoft PowerPoint. I need to build PowerPoint slide decks for our church services. These contain some video and audio features and settings that are just not available in the online Powerpoint, Google Docs, LibreOffice or OnlyOffice. It also has to be local on the computer, for occasional offline use.

If it wasn't for that one app, I would dump Windows on all my computers, except for one laptop, which would be my "just in case".

I just picked up a laptop with Windows 11 on it. My #1 gripe with Microsoft is the requirement of a Microsoft account to log into the computer. Dang it! Computers are MY property. I don't want MS saying whether I can log into my own computer and then keep track of everything I do and then try to feed me ads. Granted, the same thing happens with my phone, but I don't have a simple alternative for that.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/23/23 at 17:56:10


6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:
how about a link to the fixer upper?


link to fixer upper ---- note recent price drop to under $180 on the last 4 units that remain

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


Also note the specified i7-4770-3.4 GHz processor is the very tippy top unit of that core i-7 4th generation and that particular matching socket generation --- there is nothing better that will drop into that particular motherboard and socket combo.

There will be some better things that come along later, though inside a new 5th generation of Intel stuff ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/23/23 at 18:23:59

bobert,

The people "gamer-izing" these old boxes run the OEM Win 10 as it is close to native to the generations of hardware that they are using.   Especially for the older cheaper graphics cards,

They are avoiding problems and simplifying their lives during their sell in period.

When Windows trashes my system trying to "upgrade" it or else tries to force sell me an expensive upgrade package to Win 11 you already know where I will go with it.   My experience has been that Linux completely covers these old Dell machines with Linux compatible drivers and may have already done so for this one.

.....  cranking up a new retro box under Windows ain't totally hassle free ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/23 at 21:42:24
thanks, my daughter is looking.

I looked up when I got my last box from your rec... 2020
quite happy with it, although I did double the ram.
can't beat getting a free computer with every copy of windows software.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/24/23 at 09:44:43


WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the box refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies stop coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending more than the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the wholistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster compared to the AMD.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i3  and is greatly lacking to many modern laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.


I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.



:P

Move fast when you see what you like


For example, as of Saturday they are down to their very last unit from this particular batch of units ......


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details    all are gone as of Sunday AM.




===================================


They do get a flow of batches of similar units in sporadically, with the price fluctuating between the features in the batches.   You can check on this daily flow of Amazon refurbs here.

LOOK HERE .......   3 new batches showing with slightly lower prices .........

https://www.amazon.com/hz/mobile/mission?p=8jdYGfp7KfvMBLEZ4WBoUA8N2WeHmoSZnQ9sBUSLHJXRU%2FoSIBT3sTg7nbDvQrZ7LJ6XL7w9%2BTX3ksA61zD4DWZRSaOewBm3Ibss5dsf3Tq%2BHXjljTOTHN4jxjXwTHj0WyH2HS7GXrko8KmyohBmX3J%2FJCcMBJD4DlyfoQqUTacQoxlD%2Bx64tAnCfebSp1SscanZAqyC6%2Fyalex7l%2BDex%2FPe2%2F%2FWwH6R8WywqeehhDcSD3wY3HiE3FAIjxKLuSJ0i2HrNgyCfoRLz7XmijHKpLfJmjCtb9kN2MmIRe3EF1vLTIc6djaHgp5n%2FujJQTo3eOZPZNoOBe5ao%2B%2FtdeLTmoB8KNvtOT7qBbKaUx8jD16%2B6hByyhpNTziLh%2B0V4Xb8&ref_=nb_sb_ss_di_ci_mcx_mi_ci-mcx-ksf1_0&crid=3BFW5AZPMXFS6

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 06/28/23 at 09:04:05

I am a creature of my past habits ......

I know WiFi can do it all now-a-days ----- but all my existing devices were older hard wired LAN networking stuff and I am all out of plug in LAN connections again.

I find that I can buy me a $250 8 connection un-monitored self contained gigabyte rated LAN switch for the low low price of $19 right now,

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A121WN6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Some of the home connection services I have looked at lately only have one (1) wired LAN connection jack (and I did not go that route because of this lack).

I think highly of the reliability and the security of wired LAN connections, so I will put the 8 new LAN jacks on the floor behind my desk and have the 4 LAN jacks (with 2 remaining open) on the back of the Spectrum box for supporting my wife's desk.

Happiness is a fully wired house ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/02/23 at 12:55:21

WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the PC case refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApGq4FkkYLc&ab_channel=TechYESCity

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies have stopped coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the holistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i5 currently at six cores  .......  and this antique Core i7 is greatly lacking in performance to many modern Core i5 laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.

I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was being pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.

These boxes sure look good, but come in poorly packaged for modern UPS delivery and the intertwined incompatibilities leave a mucky taste in your mouth when it is all over.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/06/23 at 05:19:07

Intel dumps off on next year's plans for improved Intel processors.

The 2 angstrom and 1.2 angstrom Intel processor family plans are officially and formally dumped now.   All the promised special generations of 7nm stuff is either done, or else considered water over the dam or else are being subsumed in Intel's endless round of BS name changes.

They were BS anyway, as the Intel 10nm (alias 3.0 angstrom) has already run its paces (and did it somewhat poorly) and the 1.2 angstrom never will be as Intel had dumped off all development on it earlier this  year in favor of TSMC 3nm (which BTW still hasn't happened in hard reality).

So we are left with another "same same" refresh for this year.

Intel (next year) hopes to make up some bogus claims for Intel cores run off TSMC 3nm next year as everyone else will be running TSMC 3nm ++ when Intel runs their first 3nm gen 1 batches.  Intel is choking on their own design's gate all around issues and has failed to ship test lots already promised to their vendor base.

AMD is currently doing preliminary vendor work on some gate all around 2nm Samsung cores as their up and coming smaller cores right now as AMD works through the various gate all around teething issues on the newer lithography levels.  

AMD has TSMC 3nm + in production as their current big cores with 3nm++ starting late this year.  Intel will be trying to go TSMC 3mn while AMD is moving to 2nm inside that same year.

AMD is doing well using "stacking a layer of memory" on top of their chipsets, as throughput is greatly increased although the resulting conjoined current draw is going up and the "lidded by memory chip set excess heating and cooling" is becoming more of an issue.  

Intel had earlier promulgated a bunch of heavy duty CPU cooling tricks that AMD is starting to use now.

With the recent strong decline in the US Dollar it is all becoming so very very expensive, so much so that us old retired people will likely never see any of it ......


==================================


Another market that Intel started that is no longer competitive in --- and Intel has just dumped it off completely due to no sales ....... the NUC.

NUC (Next Unit of Computing) as a class or style has a healthy market in Asia, but nothing competitive is coming from Intel at all now, so it gets the axe from Intel at the end of this month.

Interesting point from ASUS   Although Intel is dumping out of the NUC market at the end of this month ASUS feels that the NUC market segment itself is still sound.  

https://liliputing.com/asus-will-make-sell-and-support-nuc-systems-after-intel-stops/

ASUS feels that new competitive NUC units using new Intel processors will continue to come out in this NUC market segment, not being driven by Intel per se but driven by ASUS and other active competitors using both AMD and ARM and Intel chipsets.


==================================


Intel still sells a lot of finished box computers using older technology.   Gamers tend to be state of the art, and are buying more and more AMD lately.

Intel still sells the majority of the tech that is available to be purchased by us common people in finished forms.

So, Intel still supplies 70-75% of the processors that are being sold.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/20/23 at 04:52:27

Intel has begun spinning their newest fantasy processors --- processors that are a "refresh" of the same old stuff all over again.

They confuse in a generous bit of their next year's TSMC "future stuff" to season it a bit, as without the extra TSMC spice it would be too bland to bother reading.

Since Intel now uses tiles (chiplets) this is "possible" but not a firm commitment at this time.

This proposed Intel generation will pull over 200 amps of power, so you know it has got to be another stock Intel room heater ......


==================================


AMD has refined their big little to be always the same exact architecture on the bigs and the littles, so the processor management is greatly simplified.

AMD has proposed actually using different vendors and their resulting different chiplet sizes on the same silicone, but to the software sending work to them they will appear to be all the same architecture with some minor variation in throughput speeds.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/22/23 at 13:50:58

Beelink continues to innovate in the NUC space with AMD Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 processors with built in gaming graphics.


http://https://img.bee-link.com/media/upload/r/ua/ruaekc5ryoaie691684925879.jpg

The AMD 65 watt processor's heat is removed using a laptop style vapor chamber, something Intel did first but it wasn't enough to handle Intel's higher heat output capacities.

Beelink can run off an AMD APU style combined processor, running BOTH the processor and the video system off the same vapor chamber heat sink.


;)


http://https://img.bee-link.com/media/upload/t/6t/t6tzkv0z50szlpw1684928311.jpg

Massive improvements already announced will come for this rig next year .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/27/23 at 14:31:18

Wow, Intel drops out of NUC market completely and all of the various other makers are coming out with alternatives that are better spec'd and relatively more powerful.

...... and most from the far east are a lot cheaper, too.

Folks are saying that Intel dropped out so abruptly because AMD's new APUs were coming out as full gaming level devices with far more processor and more GPU and AI all coming in a lower power consumption product.



http://https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/rgb_02.jpg



http://https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/r7000_03.jpg

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/28/23 at 18:13:23

I just finished reading my feeds and stuff ........   Intel is wounded and isn't doing very well.

Intel is renaming everything that they are keeping yet again (a common Intel reaction when they are going to be non-competitive for a bit).

AMD is caught out by having NO COMPETITOR at this point in time.   Literally, AMD is only competing against its own last generation of stuff which is comparable to Intel's best at this point in time.

AMD's plans are being upgraded by their AMD mainframe chiplet's progress simply reading through to the consumer processors by osmosis.

AMD isn't pushing big little as a main focus, but it is indeed coming due to mainframe chiplet osmosis.

AMD had said big little wasn't coming to desktop chips this year, but it is indeed coming to laptop chipsets starting Q4 this year.   I don't pretend to understand exactly what AMD is saying, exactly, but 4c chiplets will still have two threads like the big boy cores of today and will have similar speed ranges to the current main AMD gen 4 cores.

One is forced to ASSume lithography changes between gen 4 (5 and 4nm) and gen 5 (3 and 2mn) will be massive enough to cover this discrepancy and have it all make sense.  

TSMC and Samsung as different vendors are reading through at this time, somehow.

Gen 5 starts shipping in full production levels next year with a big increase in core counts per the same size socket/processor chip sizes.

How many cores,  you ask?    20 state of the art PC cores and up ...... 32 has been mentioned for Ryzen 9 (or Ryzen 12 if you are using proper rumor speak for that generation).

The rumored AMD APU stuff from earlier this year is indeed shipping right now, with the  included gaming level graphics and somewhat significant internal AI processor support that was just rumored stuff this spring.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/29/23 at 04:54:06
Summary, Intel is at big little with relatively HUGE old style Intel lithography from 2-3 generations ago.

AMD is still salting down their own version of big little, with last years 3nm TSMC lithography as the bigs and are working on including chiplets of 2nm Samsung lithography as their littles.

AMD is spanning the start of "gate all around" in large scale production while Intel is just moving finally to TSMC FinFet.

Intel is moving in secret so they can go lie freely all around it.   Intel needs the lies as their reality isn't really so great right now.

I wish I had lots of dollars to spend on some new equipment, as that 20 plus cores of AMD goodness appeals to me quite a bit.

Intel, not so much.



=================================



THIS PAST FEW WEEKS ......    Intel scraps the Bing search engine, scraps the Cortana voice search interface, and stops development on most announced new Intel innovations while laying off personnel right and left.

Intel is losing both money and market share this year ........      Intel MUST return to a profit basis ASAP or Wall Street will functionally shut them down.

Intel will TRY to come out with a new generation of processors every 2 years, but they will be rather slow and out of date to current technology from TSMC, Apple and AMD.  

These new processors will be likely be built at TSMC USA using 5nm lithography whenever the facility finally opens in 1-2 years.   At that time they will be using two to three levels back TSMC tech, not the current state of the art built in Taiwan tech that Apple and AMD will be using.

Intel will strongly depend on marketing BS and lies to make their stuff sound competitive when is it definitely NOT current nor competitive nor state of the art.



http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/tsqVwJetsB7L9BazpFkheZ-970-80.png.we

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/08/23 at 02:54:35

Here comes the Intel Raptor Lake Refresh, complete with brand new BS Intel marketing lies while using the same out of date lithography as used in the last 4 years.

Intel isn't going to win with this one, too little and too late to compete against superior AMD products already flooding the market place.

But this is good, as within a quarter prices will drop yet again due to Intel competition for market share.

Intel serves to keep AMD honest, which is backwards to how it used to work.  Mebbe we simply say they take turns keeping the other one honest ...... this will work unchanged going forward.

Yes, Intel will rack up a few blue bars on the big graph that I keep showing you.  Each time you get a blue bar you get another red bar that beats up on it, so you see the two competing in fine details getting better over time.

Look to see Intel increasing core counts with lots of 1 thread only Intel small cores.

AMD will counter this with their own small cores (2 threads each) in the future, but right now AMD is moving itself based on thread count equity, not excess amounts of power sucking little cores ---- each AMD core is always worth two threads and all the Intel littles are only worth one thread.  

Still on the larger side of things Intel is walking away with over 20 threads and we are promised even bigger thread counts from both parties in the future.

It would be really nice if sofware actually used all these threads, games for example really can't use over 4 threads effectively right now.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/09/23 at 22:53:20

Intel's first benchmarks are out on their Raptor Lake refresh at +10% compared to the existing Intel products.

This is problematical for Intel, as it just matches previous generations of the AMD products but Intel is running at much higher wattages and temperatures.

Meanwhile AMD has come out with a brand new true 10% improved processing simply by using a larger faster "on chip memory cache".  AMD is also is currently lining up at 20% throughput improvements by using better lithography levels.  First tests show AMD at a combined +25% improvement levels.

AMD's APU laptop chipsets are actually beating up on Intel main PC chipsets .....   and gaming users are now flocking to AMD's little square boxes on Amazon in preference to building a new box themselves.

NOTE HOWEVER, that Intel is still selling every chipset they can make because Intel users are buying replacement units from the big box stores where Intel has contractual lockdowns that stop their AMD machines from ever being considered.

People buying selectively over the internet are buying more AMD, while the brick and mortar  stores are only selling Intel.

The trend to stop building your own boxes is increasing as the cost of an entire AMD based small box unit is less than the cost of a "sufficient" graphics card would cost ......

Remember, AMD APUs come with gaming graphics built in the processor itself now a days ....... so the whole game is changing by and large.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/10/23 at 19:41:05

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CBQ77ZWN/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91rgi7AIFWL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CBQ77ZWN/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have been reading up a bit about these little Beelink gaming boxes and how they get marked down at Amazon all the time.  

Some actually become quite good deals during the later well marked down "change over" to a new generation with the older units moving down to half price or thereabouts simply to get them out of the way.  

This is my ~ half price ~ 8 core 16 thread Ryzen 7 unit at $352 after taxes.

OK, let's find out if it works out OK  -----  i.e. I bought me a little AMD APU box, an 8 core 16 thread Ryzen 7 box with a 1 terabyte SSD and 16 gigs of DDR4 memory for $352.

This is less money than a decent video card costs.

It will run Linux Mint supposedly and actually comes with Windows 11 actually completely installed new in the box.   I was surprised, pleasantly.  

But I know in my heart Mickysoft will screw me over and piss me off soon enough.

Just like the last box I bought, I will send it back to Amazon if it turns into a pain in the ass like the last one did.  I have better expectations of a good result on this Beelink box, I do believe.

I will withhold all enthusiastic knee jerking until it completely proves out to be a good thing .......


;D

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/11/23 at 21:19:57

I have an long standing habit of maxing out the memory on any new box that I buy.

I have found that this gives me a maximum time span before that old devil OBSOLESCENCE comes calling on me.

The cute little box swings a modern 8 core 16 thread AMD Ryzen 7 processor and it takes a lot of memory to max out the slots.

I bought 64 gigs of DDR4 Crucial systems memory.  The little box came with a 1terabyte PCIe 3.0 stick type boot drive and I then added a 2 terabyte encased SSD simply to hold my ENTIRE games library.

So, there is really nothing to add to it going forward  ........

;D

.....  so if there are issues with all that stuff it should show up during the "send it back'" allotted time span  .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/23 at 21:41:16
thanks for all the insights to the industry

I bought a recycled business desktop a couple of years ago and I think it may be a couple more before I trier of it.

for what little I do with it, my chromebook is so much better.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/13/23 at 03:54:00

OK,

People are now asking the web experts  IF THEY DARE can they indeed replace a full sized PC ( with a moderate gaming card and specs) with the specific Beelink box that I had bought.

Here is the answer, and it is by and large YES -- YOU CAN.

And if you load up the Beelink with memory and fast drives like I did you can indeed exceed the PC box's workability in these comparison tests.

Here is the video for you to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLZUlZ-bjXA&t=110s&ab_channel=ElevatedSystems

And also note, you are plugging in a little bitty $650 loaded up to the max AMD machine that does not get all hot and bothered by Intel's inherent overheating issues and big noisy fan issues.

Another tester reports his results on a smaller unit  ........   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyopwsgUd88&ab_channel=RandomGaminginHD

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/14/23 at 06:32:45

Progress so far ........

Windows 11 is so far far different from Win 10 and I have been in Linux Land for so long I am pretty much a lost doggie.

However, I have both of my drives (PCie and SATA III) recognized by my little PC's Bios and it is now reporting they exist in Win 11 at their full size.  

I am now working on getting a report on my systems memory.   Like I said, I am in lost doggie mode on my Windows 11 skills.

It gives me something to do, anyway.

------ I finally found it deep inside Win 11--- I have 64 gigs of active fast systems memory.



Little PC report.

I really can't tell that it is running except for the light on the front face on the power button.

It is different stuff, it makes NO NOISE and it doesn't get hot.

The 2 fans inside of it is about the size of a 50 cent piece.

It is very very quick to do things.

The issues with Win 11 stem from my lack of Win 11 knowledge plus MS's current fixation on "out Appling" Apple  ---  i.e. changing how they do everything to visually mock Apple's methodology.

So I am fully implemented in the AMD AM4 APU level processor and AM4 memory type stuff.  So I am one generation back to the ultimate current level stuff, but that's OK, the bits and pieces didn't cost that much.  

Once upon a time I actually had a USB-1 hub sitting on my desktop that was about the same size as my little PC and made the same level of noise as my fast 3 terabyte of storage 64 gig systems memory PC does now .......

I am now hunting a game service that downloads the entire game and keeps them indexed neatly on your local drives.  Steam used to do this, but it got all complicated by being a web based service and sorta slow to download the game of the hour.  

Plus Steam likes to kick you off all the time due to several periods of inactivity.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/14/23 at 20:23:58

Games .....  Games ......

There are a mort of them available to put on your local hard drive for free.

Some of these are hacked, or jailbroken games.   Some are old enough that nobody apparently cares any longer, the company went out of business, etc.

Here is a top 10 listing of where to get yer freebee games .....

Fair warning to ye me hearty, ye be a pirate now, me bucko .......



https://awbi.org/top-10-sites-to-download-free-pc-games/



I expect Win 11 to start squealing various alarms like a carnally abused Ms. Piggy very very shortly ......    so before that happens I need me some Mint on a boot-able thumb drive.   The odds of getting infected with a sociable disease just increased astronomically due to the sleazy neighborhoods in which am now cruising .....

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/16/23 at 07:59:29

Linux Mint supports lots of older stuff that Win 11 does not support.

Simple stuff like old thumb drives.  My drives were not recognized by Win 11 because Linux had been part of their formatting.

Yep, had to order me some brand new modern thumb drives to have a better chance of Win 11 actually supporting them.

I ordered some cheap thumb drives at 32 gig capacity for $5 each.  Times are really different (changed some to the better) when a $5 thumb drive has more capacity than my old box's hard drive used to have .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/16/23 at 08:26:57

As part of my Win 11 set up I had supplied my WiFi ID and password.  

I just now realized I have never run the Cat 5 cable over to the new box --- I seem to be able to run just fine over WiFi and it begs the question of me buying a new cable set.  

I think I will continue to run on WiFi until I free up the old Cat 5 cable that is running to the relatively ancient Dell box.

:o

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/17/23 at 09:07:28

Well. Intel did what folks thought they were going to do ----- they made a low performance boost "refresh" for first quarter 2024 using the same old Intel lithography, just bumping it up some in input power and in processor heat produced.

An 8% performance "improvement" which is about what the rumors last month had painted.

Next Intel generation after this one will supposedly have more cores per processor and will have at least some of the cores being actually made at TSMC.

The rub for that generation is that AMD already has enough performance to equal or beat it currently right now ........   but by then AMD will have released their own big little format of their very own and AMD have a significant core count increase and have racked up a performance upper twice over by then.

Intel is saying they will have new stuff in 2025 right now, but that new stuff always seems to get delayed and discontinued, it being Intel and all .......


==================================


There is a massive shift in PC land, away from traditional desktop formats towards the little box format.

The mobile laptop format combined processors from AMD and Intel are now where most of this combat is taking place.  

These tend to show up in laptops and the mini box PC formats, with performance that is going to lap up over the older generations of desktop gaming PCs.

Both AMD and Intel have this out there now so please be careful in your reading to make sure if you are treading on the APU turf or the desktop gaming turf .......

Intel can only break into the top area of the charts group for a very short period of time using their "best cheat of the moment" tricks, but Intel will do this periodically no matter whatever it takes to claim the throne no matter how brief that moment is.

We are at a changeover point now, choked with old box units being sold off for cheap as both players upgrade their wares very quickly.

AMD is following their published roadmaps, making up new generations of chiplets for mainframe that then get rolled into waves of ever better APU chipsets.

Intel is using daughter boards and "added feature" tricks to stay in the race.   Beware of what Intel is actually shipping as they are intentionally scrambling up their processor names to hide what they are up to.

Intel is mostly out of big fab building money now and is more or less and is falling further and further behind in their technology.

Intel is teaching us that adder sub-systems to make up for processor lacks can equal the other guy's real processor improvements, and that AI is necessary for your computing happiness.

AMD is based on TSMC and runs off of real progress, but Apple has locked up all the best TSMC production at the moment which is slowing AMD's progress at the moment.

::)

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/20/23 at 23:43:22

My Little Box Report


Progress is slow as I keep hitting barriers thrown up by Wintel due to my having used Linux in the past.

I keep having reasons to go back to temporarily use my old machine because I am getting dumped on my over the silly little shite MS and Intel simply won't do.

Wintel is still slower doing some simple upkeep things in my new machine even though it is running on much better hardware.

I keep thinking that I could switch the box over to Linux Mint and recover quicker from that changeover than I could get Win 11 to be fully operational (if it ever got that good compared to Linux Mint Mate, that is).

Having this thought already, it will not take much of a significant new Win 11 mess up to drive me to changing over.

:-?

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/21/23 at 03:59:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6k0hBZR8g&ab_channel=TechNotice


Well, this fellow has attempted to impartially compare the latest crop of "comparable"  small boxes between AMD and Intel.   His English is good, but is accented somewhat.   He gets his points across, clearly enough.

Not surprisingly, AMD wins by a fair margin.

He also makes the point that big office PCs are about done at this time as the little boxes more than suffice.



Next, here is how to pick a mini PC .......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTGUioeht6I&ab_channel=Britec09

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/24/23 at 01:44:48

OK, I got my first two games cranked up on Steam and properly downloaded and running like gangbusters.

My little PC is plenty fast enough to play AAA games at full graphics levels ---  with the rub being that my reflexes are quite slow now and my gameplay tends towards stealth mode and using a totally pre-planned sneakiness style.

I die a lot, but learn from the experience and go at it another even sneakier way.  I rely on walk-throughs and cheats to make up for being all old and feeble.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Eegore on 08/24/23 at 14:21:55

 What games on Steam do you play?

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/24/23 at 15:29:40

Currently, Syberia - The World Before and Rise of the Tomb Raider.

It takes me a long time ~30+ hours~ to do a Tomb Raider game, the Syberia games are point click puzzle solvers that go a good bit quicker at closer to 15-20 hours.

I have a backlog of games that I bought that wouldn't run right on my previous hardware and I have sources now for lots of hot free games.


---- I learned that all the modern walk-throughs are all very complex web pages now-a-days.  Forget about text based walk-throughs as they do not exist any more.  Walk-throughs include big chunks of the game itself to show you just how to execute the little tricks that are needed to get past the challenge points.

Pull up the walk-through up on your Amazon Fire tablet and lay it aside until you need to refer to the walk-through for the next set of help & directions.   Play the game up on the big screen using the little AMD box until you get tired of being all lost and dead.

Then cheat some for better weapons ---- it really helps old folks like us a lot.


=================================

Warning

Walk throughs have holes in them that the good walk through correct over time.   The bad ones never get updated or corrected, especially as the game itself gets older.

About half of these holes are due to sloppy walk through writing, rather than actual game issues.

Have more that one fairly current walk through and cross compare them for the particular issue you are having.

=================================


My favorite cheat in Serious Sam was applying a cheat mod that made the rotating barrel mini gun shoot the far more powerful buckshot shells instead of FMJ rifle bullets at 1000 rounds a minute.  

I made a trench using that mini gun just shooting a trench down a rock lined street that I couldn't get down without dying from being sniped from the adjacent upper floors and around various corners.

I ducked down in the trench and extended it --- waiting until my ammo and  health had recovered then I popped up and ankle busted all the uglies that had appeared for me to shoot.

Why ankles?  Shotgun pellets bounce and ricochet off pavement very nicely and naturally do a head high expansion cone over 50 yards or so .......

Rinse and repeat until the game quits repopulating new uglies.  Ironically, the upper floor scorpion sniper uglies were relatively easy to kill compared to the Gnars and Skeletons down on the ground.

There was one plaza near the end of the game that had regeneration points (pedestals) where ammo and healing knapsacks would appear every minute.   I'd jump up on the pedestal and just stay there ---- and just change ammo type or guns periodically while waiting for the next ammo regeneration.  Mini gun to pulse laser was a good rotation with always using continuous fire which ate up the ammo and the health at about the perfect mix to come out alive at the end.

There are also other games I started but never finished (got bored and quit on them).

I also liked the No One Live Forever games for putting a scope on a cross bow then allowing the pegging of bad guys to the ground with an arrow through their outside foot.   And this at over 100 plus yards to boot.

The AI in that game would always respond verbally to being wounded ...... the Indian characters were mournfully polite but very mouthy as they slowly bled out while foot pegged to the ground.  

Aieeeee, I am wounded ......  I am hurt, I am bleeding .......   Aieeeee, it hurts so badly.

The ninja assassins were fun too as they could carry around 1-2 ninja stars sticking out of a few non-vital body parts for the rest of that level while periodically protesting very very politely "That hurts".

There was a dart gun in NOLF that had a silencer and a scope available for it that you could find or upgrade to.   Dart ammo were varied and upgrade stackable and included a nasty death gas pellet, some incendiary fire darts and one type of medical healing health dart that left a visible hypodermic needle sticking out where it hit.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/31/23 at 05:59:07

RISC-V from SCI-5 has new stronger cores that run on TSMC 4nm and 3nm processes.  The designs are all Big Little going up from the small phones adding up the combo stacks of 6 core chipsets running a common local memory pool to make up some huge mainframe chipsets.

Look for a lot of phone guys to be building various equipment using this line of new RISC-V processors in response to the increased costs of post IPO ARM licenses.


==================================


Intel is still losing market share and is still losing money but relatively less quickly than last year -- i.e. they are still selling their out of date Intel technology at a loss in order to keep up market share and commitments.

Intel posted net income of $1.5 billion, or 35 cents per share, versus a net loss of $454 million, or a loss of 11 cents per share, in the same quarter last year. Revenue fell 15% to $12.9 billion from $15.3 billion a year ago, marking the sixth consecutive quarter of declining sales.

Intel is now working on coming out with Intel chiplet designs using the ideas included in these generic RISC-V processor chiplets.

This clues you in on the ever increasing cost of dealing with post IPO ARM ......

It also indicates how open Intel really is to quickly using somebody else's RISC-V ideas that happen to do something better than their ideas can do.  

Intel needs something that comes together and makes a winning combination to reverse their trend of losses vs AMD.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/03/23 at 12:04:22

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/leaked-details-of-amd-ryzen-8000-12-core-zen5-strix-point-apu-with-16-rdna3-5-compute-units.html

By now you realize that AMD has a reliable and pretty much concrete roadmap going out 2-3 years into the future --- and if they start leaking numbers from the early test runs these results tend to be spot on (or get even slightly better as they go into full production).

Certainly the built-in APU features mentioned seem to pan out very reliably as the testing actually comes from the first mainframe core set sample runs and once these proof out runs  are in place these AMD systemic advancements then get reliably reflected everywhere AMD core sets get used.

Read this web page and understand why Intel is just now dropping out whole future Intel generations of Intel processors so so very very abruptly of late ......

AMD has recently put several iterations of Intel's future design paths into the Overcome by Events category.  Or, sadder yet, Intel is going forward with them anyway knowing they are not competitive.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/leaked-details-of-amd-ryzen-8000-12-core-zen5-strix-point-apu-with-16-rdna3-5-compute-units.html

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/05/23 at 05:09:02
http://https://external-preview.redd.it/cw5dSOwY_JBlApQtiwBn4lcmhf5qi3DKNveydgaQ59E.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fbbd6c7badeedcca04928f4d8792705ab0298ab7

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/07/23 at 10:07:03
IDK how many years it has been since I had a tower, but probably around 15. The Kindle is all I Have to have. I miss seeing pictures big enough to actually see. I am absolutely blown away by the tech of today. My wife's cell phone has more capability, excluding the phone and camera, set those aside, and the cell phone can access information in so many ways, it's amazing. Now add back the camera,, consider the quality, and realize That fits in your pocket. And who doesn't remember The Brick? The first commercial Portable phone.. It was the size of a purse.
And Now all of that technology is available to everyone. And it fits in a pocket.

So, computing today? I have zero knowledge of Just what kind of leaps have been made in the years since I stopped messing with them. I knew a guy who was all in on AMD processors and was building overclocked and water cooled towers for competition and got to listen to him, but technology moves fast.
IDK what the RAM installed in the average home unit would be, or hard drive capacity.
I'm sure it's all about like the difference between the Wright flyer and an F 16.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by J Mac on 09/10/23 at 21:00:37
I'm an IT professional and use a desktop at home, and always will.  I'm frankly puzzled when I hear a coworker say they only use a phone at home for all their computing needs.  I cannot stand phone apps for the most part.  If I want to browse Amazon or Home Depot, I need a browser and a keyboard.  I guess those people use their work laptop to compose letters and such, but I'm not willing to do that.  I can't stand using the phone keyboard for serious e-mail discussions.  I was more or less 50/50 Windows/Linux since the WWW became a thing but decided to give a Mac Mini with the M1 chip a try about 3 years ago.  I love the thing and can only think of a handful of things about the OS that bug me.  Yes, Windows has tons of shortcut and right-mouse convenience items built in, but MacOS isn't *that* different.  It was definitely influenced by Windows innovations.    I guess the one thing that bugs me is not being able to hit the Delete key with a file highlighted to trash it.  So, instead of being a fierce loyalist to either MacOS, Linux, or Windows, I use all 3.  Windows bugs the crap out of me in many ways, especially the time it takes to start up and patch it.  MacOS starts up fast and patches nicely.  Linux starts up really fast, and the patching is unobtrusive, but you often have to ask for patches instead of having them pushed automatically.  I used Mac heavily around 1990 at work for a couple years, but the things were too expensive for me for home use at the time.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/10/23 at 22:00:36

I think that I am still amazed that I have a gaming rig on my desk right now that I bought for less than what a separate graphics card would cost me -- one that includes a Ryzen 7 AMD 8 core chip, a lower end gaming level AMD graphics chipset, 64 gigabytes of systems memory, and 3 terabytes of solid state drive space.

8-)

I will state for the record that the little AMD box stuffed with laptop based goodness works fine for anything I have tried to do with it and the little box jest stuffed slam full of memory and storage costs less than half of what a low end tower gaming machine (with relatively skinny memory specs) would have cost me.

And it all fits in a tiny corner of my deskspace that is just 5" by 4" by 1 3/4" tall.  

My wife says she can hear the little fans run when I am gaming, but I cannot hear the tiny high pitched sound at all.

Yes, I realize I bought it at "generational change" close out pricing, but it is a lot of good stuff for a moderate amount of money.

                                               
==================================


Now I have another thing to be grateful for, I have a set of full sized cores with full function speeds in my Ryzen 7 eight core chipset and a full set of fast last gen graphics cores to go along with it.

The next generations of Phoenix APUs will be a mix of big and little, which brings some power and size benefits to balance out an existing 25% hit in raw performance for each of the smaller 4c cores.

Click on this and "copy image to a new tab" then open the tab --- there is a lot more to see if you can increase the image size a bit.
http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5lGQM3acAA-l-e?format=jpg&name=small
And yes, the thing on the right is a different design of core run at a smaller lithography.


https://liliputing.com/amds-first-hybrid-chips-feature-zen-4-and-smaller-zen-4c-cores/  shows you details on big little and explains the current levels of trade offs.

The much smaller 4c cores will pick up more power and speed shortly, with them actually becoming the main cores of the future AMD generations.   But right now you can see that the 4c cores which are built with a different smaller lithography which is still proving itself out which goes to explain why they do not perform as well as the existing zen-4 big cores can perform.

Until then, I am happy to have the relatively larger Gen 4 cores that I have -- especially at the price I bought it at and considering just how well the larger Gen 4 cores performs.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/13/23 at 19:52:43

It was an easy prediction for me to make 3 months ago.

Intel is indeed throwing over all their processor naming conventions and is RENAMING everything according to a phony baloney new naming system.

Why?  Because it is really  the same old Intel big 10nm and 7nm lithography stuff as the last two years (within an 8% testing variance).   It does have a bigger on the top layer of memory cache, which is where the 8% improvement actually comes from (if the theoretical improvement indeed makes a solid appearance in subsequent real production runs).

Intel is going to focus on tuning several processors out of their line up and tune them very very carefully with AI sub-components and make all Intel advertising claims for the entire new line based upon them.

Why?   AMD just did a generation increase and is already as good or better that the "fake it until you make it" new Intel stuff.  

Intel cheats, so expect a wave of BS cheating to take place soon.



==================================



We have a lot of change coming up on both Intel and AMD sides.  BIG changes are coming up early next year then again later on in the year as well.  

We expect more processor core counts from both sides, but we also expect the cores from AMD to continue to pull two threads per core even on the littles, pull a LOT less power on the littles and have low cost low power variants that are built up of 100% littles as lithography shrinks and other improvements make the these new littles functionally equivalent to the old Bigs.  

Intel will change their naming starting now, but will take until 2025 to ring in any TSMC made chiplets (if they ever get them made).

Rumor now says that TSMC has yield issues on their 3nm second gen and because of this poor yield there is no production capacity at TSMC to support Intel in 2025.  

NONE, AT ALL.

AMD and Apple get their sizeable prepaid allocation of chips from Taiwan facilities, but Intel gets bupkiss as Intel cancelled their TSMC allocations and did not pre-pay for their chips.

Intel may have been counting on Biden's compute America plan to get them TSMC chips from the new TSMC Arizona facilities, but this ran afoul of TSMC losing interest in dumping even more megabucks into American facilities that can't even get themselves built on time.

This Biden Compute America plan did not pan out in reality.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/17/23 at 22:10:40
http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5lGQM3acAA-l-e?format=jpg&name=small


Let's talk a bit about what this really means.   AMD has shown us the next generation design and showed us the out of the gate TSMC lithography that has some performance bugs still in it.  

It must be clearly noted that 4c performance out the gate had a ~ 25% ~ performance bug hit built into it when it first came out.

The 4c design was easily 35% smaller though ---- it still packed a 25% memory increase and a >20% energy savings into the first samples designs, even though the processor was clearly more space efficient than previous generations.

Bugs do get worked out over time, and this will be the main core AMD intends to use going forward.   Current big little formats are rolling over towards all littles as we speak.

We are talking 12-16 cores per chiplet instead of the current 8 cores when the transformation is completed.

Then comes the next big lithography 2nm shrink and things get even better  .......



Intel talks some big talk about 18 angstroms, but we see no sign of it in testing anywhere.  


However, we can actually see AMD actually walking on down the angstrom pathway.


===================================


Intel has just jumped the shark big time.   They now claim 4nm and 3nm tiles are actually being used in Meteor Lake "Ultra" processors.   They also say they have Intel 2nm tiles coming in with Meteor Lake starting next year.

Intel is Simply Completely and Totally FULL of it ...... TSMC does not say they have any current 3nm production allocations for Intel as Intel failed to pre-pay for their last allocation slot.   IBM and Samsung are silent about this as well.

TSMC has not even produced successful sample runs for 2nm product for Apple as of yet.

Gen 3 of 3nm is having yield and performance issues that are causing Apple to back up full production on a 3nm Gen 2 generation product ....... this has been announced recently.



The current Intel fluff news is just renaming of tiles built with existing stuff with "Ultra" as a brand name.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/28/23 at 17:03:38

WHAT'S NEW

TSMC and Apple are shifting down from 3rd gen 3nm to the first release 2nm for next year's state of the art production chipsets.

3nm had performance issues with all three of its corrected iterations, with lower speeds and throughputs actually making it out of the gate each time.

ASML is catching grief from TSMC and from Intel who had purchased one of each of the ASML scanner generations but never followed through on bulk multi line purchases (as did both TSMC and Samsung).

FinFET is completely done now, everything will be ribbon FET or gate all around on all items going forward.


==================================


Intel is talking future plans again.   Having just dumped their last major set of announced future plans due to "being overcome by events" Intel is planning on leveraging multiple AI subchips to try to make up for their current lacks vs AMD/TSMC which is running at some much improved lithography levels relative to Intel.

Intel is planning on making AI sub-chips for everybody as Intel sees separate AI chiplets for each particular need as being more efficient to make and assemble at the substrate level.   Intel as a vendor is working on being able to assemble various sized chiplets from everybody/anybody in their assembly plants.

Intel is building a long term plan that is actually based on China making some big assed moves and actually taking over Taiwan's TSMC.

TSMC continues to make progress on getting "dispersed geographically" by local plants in Arizona and Germany.  These plants are early functional at 5nm now and will start up a version of 3nm soon.

2nm is coming to TSMC starting next year, and it has a completely different gate all around tech base to it.

I would suggest holding off a year or so until the next waves settle in, and then PLEASE DO NOT BUY AN OLD STYLE BIG BOX WITH AN EXPENSIVE GRAPHICS CARD as that is very much past tense technology now-a-days.

APUs from AMD and Intel are the things to study up on before buying.  Yep, the little box stuff that I just bought into.

TSMC/AMD has fully matured the little box tech that I just purchased and Intel is working on their version of equivalent tech that will be flying under their new Ultra brand name.  

Powerful laptop type APUs (graphics in the CPU) are the future which is being pursued by everybody (AMD, Intel and Apple).

News from 3 days later ----- AMD core counts are all going to DOUBLE in next years planned ZEN 5 for the exact same socket size due to lithography increases and some layout changes of the newer smaller 4c style lithography cores.  

At the same time Intel will be going to using new augmented AI chiplet based FOVEROS stacked formats, so expect the core count deal to become quite murky and confusing for any new Intel products.

http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5lGQM3acAA-l-e?format=jpg&name=small

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 10/02/23 at 14:13:13

Let's break this latest news down a little finer and extend it to the next generation of AMD 5c BIG cores as they have popped up on the AMD roadmaps just now.


https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-mini-zen-4c-cores-explained-theyre-nothing-like-intels-efficient-cores/

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/igX3gahVQAKHPDCcQrMK9U-970-80.jpeg.we

Yes, these new 4c and 5c processors are somewhat (25%) slower than AMD big cores (by intent)  but they are still faster than modern Intel mainframe cores currently are, so no big deal.  

Plus, AMD has completed the tech to put an entire memory layer on top of the entire 4c chiplet, so it can get back the 25% memory hit .....  plus a bunch more as the extra top layer of memory helps processing speed a lot.

Parallel processing between the crowd of processor cores on each chiplet is already faster than Intel's best and everything stays on chiplet for all of the memory access and gaming level graphics functions.

Having real built in gaming level graphics and all the various memory levels right there on the chiplet is still a big advantage to the AMD planned next generations.

Now let's talk about competing against Intel and the absolute flexibility that AMD has to whup up on Intel's proposed next generation.

"But theoretically, it would be easy enough for AMD to package, say, one of its existing eight-core Zen 4 chiplets or CCDs with a 16-core Zen 4c chiplet, and thus offer a 24-core and 48-thread CPU for the desktop that would be pretty darn compelling."  

Zen 5, anybody?

AMD's 4c stuff is in actual real production in 2023, Intel's stuff is still getting re-imagined for 2025 ..... and AMD has two more generations to pre-compete with Intel before Intel actually does anything that is real.

I see Intel scrapping more generations of announced Intel stuff as "overcome by events" at least twice more before actually building anything that is truly competitive.




Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 10/16/23 at 09:15:23
http://https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/AMD-Zen-Roadmap-728x410.png

In addition to the main desktop family, AMD is also said to introduce its Cezanne and Phoenix APUs for desktop platforms. These APUs will utilize the 7nm and 4nm process nodes, respectively. AMD's APUs have been AWOL from the desktop segment for a long time now. It is not confirmed if these APUs will hit DIY availability or remain an OEM-only products. The chips will share the same specs as their mobile counterparts with a mix of Zen 3 + Vega for Cezanne & Zen 4 + RDNA 3 for Phoenix APUs.


This confirms the information presented in the last two posts .......  

Yes indeed  AMD APU chipsets are indeed coming to desktops.   However, TSMC 3nm is not yet available for AMD products just yet, it is all allocated to Apple with nothing much for AMD in 2024 and nothing at all for Intel until 2025 at the soonest.

Look to see Samsung attempt to snatch some volume out of this TSMC "bobbled the ball big fumble" mess.


===================================


Wednesday, 10-18-23

Morris Chang of TSMC makes a fairly clear statement that TSMC will not bail out Intel, ever, and that Intel's recent announced TSMC plans were all BS they made up from whole cloth while Intel was busy claiming that TSMC technology was "Intel technology".

Chang also says everyone's plans for 2nm were "optimistic" and all players will stay on 3-4 nm or higher for the near future.

Morris plans to build all new chip fabs going forward in Taiwan as the cost of construction is far far lower.

Intel states that they did buy some new generation ASML machines (one per generation) and once they figure them out they will make some production chips on them.

China still looks to be planning on invading Taiwan  ......    When this happens it all goes up in the air and Samsung will be left holding the best cards for future dominance.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 10/21/23 at 06:10:41

This is a huge image of a new roadmap showing new years worth of stuff from AMD.   Just click on it and view it in a new tab to be able to see it all.

http://https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/AMD-EPYC-CPU-Roadmap-2019-2024.png

OK, it is simpler for you to go to the source thread and read all about it.

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-5-zen-5c-epyc-cpu-turin-16-ccd-128-cores-turin-dense-12-ccd-192-cores-turin-x-1-5-gb-cache/

And as always, AMD builds their new stuff into their mainframe chiplets first, then that plays across the entire platform as the chiplet design gets used in everything.

These chiplets are the current production approved 4nm lithography and these chiplets and the finished processors will be built and packaged at TSMC's Taiwan facilities after Apple turns loose of the assembly lines.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by thumperclone on 10/21/23 at 16:03:55
just changed over from dsl to 5G wifi big  difference

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 10/24/23 at 06:19:01

+1 on the 5G improvements --- I had accidentally set up my new little gaming box to connect by 5G (answered the set up questions and set it all up wirelessly instead of using Cat 5 cables).

Works great, as fast or faster than the Cat 5 hard wired connections.

Modern tech works great .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 10/29/23 at 07:37:27

https://liliputing.com/lilbits-killing-windows-10-in-2025-could-turn-millions-of-pcs-into-ewaste-or-at-least-compromise-their-security/

Well, you heard it here first --- MS strikes out at its user base again in 2025.

Microsoft plans to continue supporting Windows 10 through 2025, after which the company expects users to move to Windows 11 (or Windows 12, if you believe the rumors). But if you have an older PC, you might not be able to upgrade the operating system due to stricter system requirements for Windows 11.

And that means that hundreds of millions of computers that are still perfectly usable could stop receiving software and security updates in a few years, making it increasingly risky to continue using them. Sure, some folks might use that as an excuse to upgrade to newer hardware… but the Public Interest Research Group (or PIRG), is calling on Microsoft to extend the support date for Windows 10 so that users aren’t forced to choose between sacrificing security or buy a new PC, effectively turning their existing hardware into eWaste.[/color]

Linux Mint would allow you to continue using your perfectly good hardware, as will several others after they figure it all out when it gets here.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/02/23 at 10:00:40

1F3C3436353C3C3522500 wrote:

Let's break this latest news down a little finer and extend it to the next generation of AMD 5c BIG cores as they have popped up on the AMD roadmaps just now.


https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-mini-zen-4c-cores-explained-theyre-nothing-like-intels-efficient-cores/


Yes, these new 4c and 5c processors are somewhat (25%) slower than AMD big cores (by intent)  but they are still faster than modern Intel mainframe cores currently are, so no big deal.  

Plus, AMD has completed the tech to put an entire memory layer on top of the entire 4c chiplet, so it can get back the 25% memory hit .....  plus a bunch more as the extra top layer of memory helps processing speed a lot.

Parallel processing between the crowd of processor cores on each chiplet is already faster than Intel's best and everything stays on chiplet for all of the memory access and gaming level graphics functions.

Having real built in gaming level graphics and all the various memory levels right there on the chiplet is still a big advantage to the AMD planned next generations.

Now let's talk about competing against Intel and the absolute flexibility that AMD has to whup up on Intel's proposed next generation.

"But theoretically, it would be easy enough for AMD to package, say, one of its existing eight-core Zen 4 chiplets or CCDs with a 16-core Zen 4c chiplet, and thus offer a 24-core and 48-thread CPU for the desktop that would be pretty darn compelling."  

Zen 5, anybody?

AMD's 4c stuff is in actual real production in 2023, Intel's stuff is still getting re-imagined for 2025 ..... and AMD has two more generations to pre-compete with Intel before Intel actually does anything that is real.

I see Intel scrapping more generations of announced Intel stuff as "overcome by events" at least twice more before actually building anything that is truly competitive.





==================================


OK, here comes this two month old prediction coming true much sooner than expected.

You need to click on the link and read the article.

https://liliputing.com/amds-newest-ryzen-7040u-mobile-chips-feature-smaller-zen-4c-cpu-cores/

In APU land, the Zen 4c core type is taking over already after quickly running through the various mainframe chipsets first .......

The Zen 5c generation will follow along early next year (2024) and then it will grow a performance memory layer on top to up the performance past the Zen 4 generation completely.

This will suspiciously coincide with totally laying waste to Intel's 2024-2025 upgrade generation .......

Faced with pre-existing "in production" AMD stuff that already kicks its ass, and also knowing that AMD has a brand new AI augmented generation waiting in the wings for late 2025 release good old non-competitive Intel may indeed choose to do yet another "rename the old stuff and punt" as they have done this year and last year.

It is sad that Intel's sole hope is hoping China will invade Taiwan and stop the TSMC juggernaut from rolling over them yet again.

Look for 24-32 AMD cores (2 threads per core) to become the new normal for a home PC chipset with 16-20 cores commonly available on AMD laptop products.

Look for laptop based small APUs to get even more killer powerful in the same time frame.

Watch the Beelink brandname for the best power to price selection of stuff that you can simply pick up from AMAZON with a single click.

Desktop boxes similar to what you are used to buying will disappear .....  mini boxes will take over as your main pc.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/02/23 at 11:51:24

Wow, it's a poppin' all over the place now.   Folks are treating this like a big deal, so likely it is both important and powerful enough to make it big news.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/21111/amd-unveils-ryzen-7040u-series-with-zen-4c-smaller-cores-bigger-efficiency

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/11/amd-starts-bringing-its-own-tiny-cpu-cores-to-new-ryzen-7040-laptop-chips/

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amds-tiny-zen-4c-cores-come-to-mobile-ryzen-cpus


==================================


I have also noted whenever Intel is doing a "regroup"  (i.e. shipping the same stuff as last year with a new naming scheme) that AMD takes a small breather and tries to clean up their on their own "off stuff" while it remains clearly superior to what Intel is shipping.  

This current "regroup" sees AMD shipping a whole lot of 4c cores without the new memory layer on top of them that was planned originally to bulk up the 4c processor's throughput.   The memory cap layer isn't required because Intel is actually shipping 2 year old processor designs ...... and the AMD 4c is still equal or better than Intel's standard mainframe offerings right now.

Intel's next "improvement" due out the end of this year is to jack up their processor speeds to 6 ghz for just a very mild increase in throughput.  The cost to the consumer is 24% increase in processor wattage and associated increased cooling costs due to the extra heat this produces.  

Service life of these chipsets is getting shorter and reviewers are beginning to the track failure rates on these new pushed Intel processors during standard burn in tests.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/04/23 at 11:18:45

Once again, AMD/TSMC will only design and make up a new style of chiplet with carefully designed new features aimed at taking care of AMD's mainframe applications at new levels of optimum power and efficiency.  

This joint AMD/TSMC effort will include CPU, AI and GPU functions at "an optimum for mainframe" mixture.

Then, over the next year the chiplet then migrates over and through the mobile and the desktop uses, picking up various tunings and refinements as the finished chips are developed.

Each Zen generation lasts a little over 2 years, so we are at the beginning of the Zen 5 generation, so expect this development and refinement cycle to start over again.

What keys this repeated development pattern is a TSMC lithography shift to a smaller TSMC lithography.   Since TSMC failed to make their next lithography shift to 2nm happen on time, look to at least a half year delay in the pattern.

Intel has competitively LOST during the last 4 match ups with AMD, and quite honestly Intel has aborted or punted and simply renamed everything during the last two development match ups between the companies.


==================================


Also, Apple and their needs take production scheduling precedence over AMD's needs, so until Apple turns loose of the 3nm gen 3 lines and moves successfully down to 2nm gen 1 you should certainly expect further delays of AMD's new future layers of good stuff.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/08/23 at 17:21:21

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/179xw2w/gamer_nexus_intel_is_desperate_i714700k_cpu/

And I join in with the fanboy chorus ---- this Intel current release does not even compete with AMD's last release, much less what has come out of development since then.

You gotta read on down the stream of comments --- very revealing since these are ostensibly a bunch of Intel fanboys saying this stuff.

Hold on to your money for a bit as Intel is going on super sale yet again real soon ......


==================================


AMD has just stated corporately that AMD will not follow Intel into hyperwatt territory just to make up some bogus processor speeds.

Instead, AMD is agreeing with some large ranking standards bodies out of mainframe land that base themselves on measuring throughput vs watts draw (i.e. processor efficiency) saying this is the way processors should be ranked.

This flies in the face of GAMING, which is all about speed -- no matter how super hot it gets or how ridiculously inefficient it becomes.

Here is the gaming rub, games really only need JUST ONE (1) really fast core to complement the fast graphics card outputs so the rest of the CPU cores could well be processor efficiency cores such as the AMD 4c and 5c cores.  It is still rare for a game to actually  use more than 2 cores for most popular gaming titles.

This should not be hard for AMD or Intel to arrange to do since they control the specs and sorting levels on their chiplets .......

I also like the thought that the AMD cores could all be 5c cores, except one would carry an extra memory layer and would be the designated the one fast one for gaming.  

Or an AI augmented chiplet could provide the one very fast core for dedicated gaming, doing it either way would work jest fine.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/10/23 at 08:21:12

https://wccftech.com/amd-intel-laptop-cpu-detailed-ryzen-8000-strix-hawk-point-2024-arrow-lake-h-hx-lunar-lake-m-2025/

Read with a grain of salt as Intel will have to again drop entire generations as they become overcome by events.

TSMC isn't currently having anything to do with Intel since Intel never bought nor paid for any TSMC production allocations and had failed to execute their previous 3 plans that involved TSMC.   Instead Intel was trusting in Joe Biden to give Intel access to the TSMC 5mn lines that still have not been built yet here in America.

Joe's grand 5nm plan is a grand failure, and it is taking Intel down with it.

The entire Biden 5nm TSMC plan completely fell apart when Joe failed to supply the rest of the big plan's money, causing severe damage to Intel as they had already committed and paid their own design resources into that plan.  

AMD never got caught up in that Biden mess as they were not invited in, instead AMD continues to work with TSMC and Samsung on a more conservative "self-financed" roadmap that is still purring along at 4nm and soon to be purring along into the 3nm lithography levels.

This is all going to be gate all around embedded ribbon tech on all of the new Samsung processors.   TSMC is working on changing over to gate all around for all their 2nm stuff, but is a mixed bag at 3nm and has yield issues that need fixing.

Samsung is taking market share from TSMC accordingly as they have figured out gate all around and are pretty good at it now.


=================================


In 2024 AMD will be building AMD chiplet wafers using Samsung 4nm and TSMC 3nm gen 1 and TSMC 3nm gen 2 chiplets with TSMC's gen 3 pending on Apple's releasing those production lines as they roll on down to TSMC 2nm production.   These TSMC assembled and finished AMD chipsets will be assembled into AMD 8000 and 9000 products using current AMD gen 4, 4c and gen 5 and 5c formats.  

AMD will now start competing head to head with Apple, Qualcomm  and others since Intel is completely sidelined right now and is no longer an innovative force at this time.

Intel is again floating more new vague "grand plans to make AI their competitive edge"  ..... sadly a not very realistic pathway compared to AMD's pathway to say the least.

Qualcomm and Microsoft are currently signalling they want to produce ARM based processors specifically tuned to their particular market segments.  Qualcomm is consumer aimed, Microsoft is mainframe aimed.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/19/23 at 20:56:00

Report on the Bee-link mini-PC project

In rolling into a more full use of the little PC I found I needed more USB 3.0 connection points than what came stock with the little box.

I looked at powered USB 3.0 hubs for several months now and saw this new 7 hole smart box pop up and I began watching the reviews as they came in week on week.  

A flaw in the Amazon review system is that all reviews for a given brand name get lumped in together, so past issues from early models become attributed to the replacement new products that do not deserve them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7NPK3DF?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
http://https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wQr+uG06L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Clearly it has more ports, more flexible ports and FAR BETTER ACTUAL CURRENT REVIEWS than any of the others I have seen.   It does not drain the battery of your tablet or your phone which is why most folks buy it.

Having gotten mine, I can say it installs flawlessly and has not failed in any fashion after weeks of use.

It does Windows, and Apple and Android tablets seamlessly so far without draining the batteries or "glitching out" on me.   All of the connections are rock solid and do not go "intermittent contact" on you as many of the competitor products have done.  

Intermittent due to non-solid connection (or excessive power draw) = resets the device and loses the last execution = VERY BAD NEWS

::)

There is no software installation required nor any drivers to screw around with -- it just plugs up securely and works just fine.

These are all early on reviews, so extended time will tell the tale on long term durability as it always does.



==================================


General Warning on using powered USB ports --- don't turn on more devices than your little plugged in power supply brick can reliably support.

Each lightning marked USB 3.0 connection can pull up to 1.4 amps and the little plug in brick can stop "giving reliable power" after installing 2-3 real power sucking USB devices.  Identify those items that pass data only (do not draw power) and plug them into the top 3 positions leaving the bottom 4 positions for things that draw juice as well as pass on data.

If you think you have a power draw down issue turn off what you are not using at the moment (kill the blue ring around the plugged in ports using the off/on button by each connection) to troubleshoot for this rather common lack of power issue.

If you identify a repeated power sucking condition with a device, then intentionally move it over to a separate plug in charger and a separate electrical socket, thus keeping it from fouling up all the rest of your stuff.

Doing this power management trick routinely and automatically is a good general idea for those folks using the little Bee-link boxes.


==================================


Wife saw me installing my USB power strip and decided she wanted one as it was just too cute and useful not to have one.

It goes along with her new 27" LG monitor for Christmas.   She was feeling neglected and unloved (technologically).  

Bad, when your wife feels neglected ,,,,,,

::)

So the new USB box is woman tested and approved, in other words ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/22/23 at 07:13:09

Can Intel come back ?????

Yes, if they could insert their 1.8nm lithography plan into full production motion BEFORE the others hit their 3nm production slots in 2024-25.

This ain't gonna happen .......

Right now Intel is over a year (in some cases two years) behind in their plans and they were days late and dollars short on their stopgap use of TSMC 3nm tiles that were absolutely critical to set up to execute the early stages of that plan series.

The grandiose plans for building domestic 5nm Fab plants in both Germany and USA have shuddered to a halt --- the money is needed right for replacement ammo to go fight wars here and there.

Saying that Intel's use of AI components will replace a series of several missed lithography shrink levels is pretty much vacuous BS, BUT who has ever said Intel is simply full of BS recently?

Me, for one .......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/22/23 at 19:36:38

Intel is two years behind the leaders.  Intel is losing market share right now by every external measurement.

Ryzen 7 is now outperforming the Core i9, which prompts the recent Intel squid ink move of remaming everything all over again.

Intel is faced with 3 generations of AMD out on the market right now, all of which being superior to Intel's products,  so Intel is now faced with currently making a product nobody really wants.

Qualcomm is an up and coming Intel competitor in laptops.   AMD is an ongoing Intel competitor in laptops and desktop PC and in mainframe.  Microsoft is an up and coming Intel competitor in mainframes.  

Sucks to be Intel at the moment, huh?

Intel can't win an upper level spot in anybody's ranking unless they cheat on the test significantly.    Really, really cheat ......

Ryzen 7 is $200-$300 cheaper than Intel at each same same competitive levels  ......  and AMD is getting cheaper month on month.  

This figure assumes like to like core counts between Ryzen 7 and Core i7 so when you actually compare the real functionality to functionality the price gap jumps up an additional $200 or so.  

You are then pricing Core i9 against Ryzen 7 if you go functionality to functionality.

How can Ryzen 7 (8 cores, 16 threads) be beating up on Core i9 at 24 cores 16 threads) ?????   Ryzen 7 is made up of chiplets that are built on more modern lithography and the top of the assembled CPU is a layer of fast access memory.   Intel is monolithic a construction and is quite expensive compared to AMD's chiplets.

Out of the 8 cores available, AMD has tweeked and tuned several cores specifically to do gaming and another pair of cores to do general processing at greater than normal throughput levels.  

Intel is hampered by HUGE SIZE and much lower throughput per chiplet.

Intel is actually better at building contractual lock in agreements and managing a herd of lawyers to sue their customers if they go elsewhere for their chips.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/25/23 at 19:53:59

Linux suddenly has a widespread audio issue.   Widespread choppy audio is showing up all over the place and the fix isn't brainless easy either.

PulseAudio was the "go to default" for decades, now it is glitching and studdering on just about all Linux distros.

LiveWire (PulseAudio alternative) is not a total fix as it too has some current issues coming from the same root causes.

I find that using Brave browser avoids all these issues --- this is a clue boys, so fix your software issues or lose your market share very quickly ......

Various gurus are working on it now and they are finding issues with "AI helpers constantly affecting Linux configurations" as AI seems to be constantly re-tuning things, which results in the glitch.  

Brave browser does not allow AI nor does it allow ads all over the place, so the old audio softwares still work just fine.

+1 for the Brave browser .....


==================================

After 5 days now I installed the latest batch of Linux system support patches and the audio issues all went away everywhere.      ::)

==================================

Amazing, ain't it ?????

As of Dec. 11, audio issues have stayed gone, but the YouTube Adblock censorship as done by Google has come back into force twice now and after 1 week of plaguing us all it is removed by Firefox folks again (third rotation right now).

Google is making no friends anywhere due to cutting lots of people off from YouTube content while the Brave browser is proving itself immune from Google's intentional inflicted gyrations.   Firefox browser is Not Immune, but reacts to return to normal functionality fairly quickly, and after about one week of "fixing things" Firefox goes back to normal until the next wave of Google mess comes through.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/25/23 at 20:05:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk0IjhM2UBY

This is a "breaking news" site telling you some of the things that I told you months ago,

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 11/28/23 at 13:01:55

MORE NEWS

We got Intel now admitting they cannot make the lithography changes that are needed within the timeframe that is required.

Intel is going to be putting out billions to TSMC to pre-buy allocations for TSMC 4nm and 3nm for late next year.

Intel correctly thinks if they don't move the needle some within the next calendar year, they may get overcome by events permanently.

But, by biting the TSMC cost bullet they can indeed compete with AMD and Apple and maintain their market position.

This will signal a new wave of real competition if it indeed takes place ......

Intel has got the funds to go buy these chips based upon current sales.   Intel has the money and TSMC has the wafers Intel needs available now because Apple sales have tanked of late.

Look to see Intel attempt to lock AMD out of the same wafers that AMD needs to keep their momentum going.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/02/23 at 06:06:10

Oh Golly Gee ......

Intel intends to bring to market some 32 core chipsets for desktop PC products ......

Linux might be able to use these sorts of core counts, but Microsoft products currently cannot in reality, no way.   There is currently a 4 core "concurrent functional maximum usage" built into the current MS operating systems for PC  .....  

(Windows 12 may fix this limitation for Intel if the Wintel boys can figure out all the details).

Intel is pumping balloon juice, in other words.   You breathe it in and then you talk all high and squeaky until you talk it all out.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/03/23 at 14:41:17

Ok, Intel has exposed their competitive path forward into the future.

They will compete by conglomerating "tiles" (e.i. chiplets) using TSMC tech and their own native Intel tech (which is extremely similar) to put various sorts of chiplets together as needed.

They will use existing Intel production lithography for all their big cores and will buy different kinds of small cores from TSMC and Samsung "as needed" in the short term.  

Intel's efforts at 1.8 angstrom level chiplets will continue until they are overcome by events (about 2 years from now).

Intel will make a whole lot of heat by using a lot of larger lithography (slower) chiplets that will get overclocked mightily to make some extra throughput ......

24-32 cores from Intel is coming.   Get used to the idea.

AMD historically can use smaller counts of better, more modern lithography cores capped with an extra layer of memory to achieve the same (or better) results.

AI is becoming commonly used as a tie breaker by both companies.   AMD Hawkpoint chipsets emphasize the use of AMD's improved AI as software finally begins using AI as a feature point.

Intel still lists AI as one their main features, but have not improved it much in the last two generations.   Intel system uses primarily as Intel does not use AI standards, really.

Intel's currently announced plans are getting better, though.   It is still 2 generations back to AMD/TSMC but it is still making progress (in declaring better plans anyway) and for Intel that is "getting better".

AMD announces real shipped improvements to real production while Intel just announces "improvement plans" that seem to all get "overcome by events" before Intel has to ship any of them .......

Apple is just now shipping samples of TSMC 2nm to vendors so they can work out their drivers, etc.

"Intel is 2 years out from 1.8 angstrom" ......   yeah, right.

::)

(.... Pass me that helium balloon, please --- I needs me some more squeaky voice Intel balloon juice)

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/16/23 at 00:22:55

Ryzen 8000 APUs have really just shipped early and as I thought they indeed do not require a graphics card for gaming.

Watch NVIDIA start to roll away from consumer space into mostly mainframe stuff accordingly ........  Do note that AMD's discrete graphics cards will suffer right along with NVIDIA as the AMD APUs will kill their own graphics cards business right along with both Intel and NVIDIA separate graphics card products.

Intel's new Meteor Lake stuff for next year already is not competitive to the AMD 7000 stuff currently in full production, much less the AMD 8000 APU samples just shipped by AMD.


==================================


AMD has also just announced Ryzen 9000 APUs that late this year will wipe the floor with Intel's best promises  yet again .......

Intel still remains two-3 generations back, in other words,

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/20/23 at 20:46:30

AMD right now is shipping >100 chipsets to each one Intel ships (according to enthusiast market data from Germany).  The Ryzen 7 family makes up the bulk of what AMD is shipping by far.

Intel still has a contractual lock on major retail PC boxes that is unchanged.  The same old stuff is rolling out of Intel into those old style locked in boxes that Joe and Rita Sixpack are continuing to buy from Walmart and Best Buy.  

The main flow of PC boxes will not change until Intel makes a new generation with real significant changes.

AMD has developed new generation 4c and 5c based chiplets that let them build 198 core mainframe chipsets that simply cannot be beat.

Same chiplets let AMD rule in "energy efficient" PC space as well.   Laptops and mini-boxes will all use the 5c class of chipsets, chipsets that swing enough graphics power to play AAA games off the built in graphics systems.

I used to think these original 4c things must have had some sort of teething issues, but since I have learned their 25% decrease in performance was quite intentional on AMD's part as these 4c and 5c chiplets are physically half as big as the old full power chiplets used to be.   They sip half the energy as well.  The 5c next gen of small chiplets showed a more total focus on mainframe energy efficiency while actually doing the same amount of work when populated to use roughly similar amounts of energy.

People are now beginning to group things according to energy consumed vs throughput levels achieved (the mainframe methodology) rather that by max watts (the old Intel methodology).

Look to see new metrics arise that judge throughput per watt as their main comparison thing.  

Intel will resist the new metrics as they totally suck at efficiency.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/24/23 at 06:12:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BICuEALqBEA

OK, you gotta stop and watch this YouTube clip to learn what is happening right now in computing.

AI chiplets are the secret sauce that will make AMD victorious over the next 2 years.

AMD/Xylinx invented and in some eyes owns AI relative to poor old Intel right now.   NVIDIA still does better than Intel, but AMD arguably has a better footprint in mainframe space right now so they have more moves to be able to make in mainframe space.

AMD APUs are currently slowly taking over the consumer graphics card space by simply removing the need to have a dedicated GPU card.  

AMD is still moving to shut out the competition in mainframe space.

COMPETITION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT.    Hey Intel, having had to wait 2 years to start competing means you will likely lose ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/24/23 at 07:40:36

Intel apparently believes that China will shut down Taiwan inside the next 2 years.

Intel has supposedly ordered 6 ASML production systems to make 2nm chiplets here in the USA.   Delivery of these units is scattered over the next 2 years .......

Fun, huh ?????


==================================


TSMC is also "geographically diversifying" by setting up new plants in the USA and in Europe that will include 2nm (1.8 angstrom) product build capability.   Apple and AMD and others are booking (pre-paying) production on these not yet completed plants .......


==================================


AI chiplets are now announced as "big stuff" for AMD and AI chiplets are coming up strong in Intel's future plans.   Intel doesn't have one of their own, but they can buy whatever AI they need as various AI chiplets are for sale from their major competitors ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 12/28/23 at 21:03:59

2024 will be noted as the year when some of the old stuff dropped off the screen.

Do not buy PC Stuff just using your old style PC moldy knowledge, as that knowledge is grievously out of date.

Your old physical hardware is still actually OK for most home PC uses, if you will just change your operating system to one that accepts both old and new stuff on a level, fast changing playing field.  

Yes, I mean you will have to use open source softwares ......  like Linux Mint.


If you are mentally stuck in Wintel Land, sorry, you are screwed over big  time as something in your rig will always be lacking or out of whack.  

If you stay with Windows you will have to buy new hardware repeatedly every few years as Wintel orders you to do so.


==================================


How fast is this new AI  changeover coming?   Really really really fast ........

AMD had figured 50% per year in processing ability change due to AI changeover per year over the next 4 years (yes, that is some really large growth on top of large transition benefits).

They were too conservative, AMD now they say 70% - 80% delta per year (limited mainly by needing brand new long lead time TSMC production equipment, not by the raw demand which is basically endless.

Intel is caught going backwards right now, as the last new generation moves backwards a bit in the latest Intel throughput numbers.


==================================


TSMC has been challenged by the various nation states to increase their build tempo to QUADRUPLE the number of high EV lithography lines they can complete per quarter, measured year on year.

And this is still not going to be enough .......    New vendors like Canon are being encouraged to jump into this space with competing styles of production equipment.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/02/24 at 23:39:47

Time to mark the line in the sand for this upcoming year's various progress items.

Watch this for a fast video review of where we are right now.  

AMD is up way in front with the Ryzen 7 3-D stacked stuff leading the band due to simplicity and cache based speed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj4gn7od0jY&t=144s

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/03/24 at 10:45:53

First new 2024 innovation/industry shift is Microsoft showing signs of partnering with AMD on joint new 2024 items instead of partnering with Intel.

Intel was not invited to this particular Microsoft/AMD party at this time as Intel has no significant new innovations to share for industry progress for this year.  

Literally, Intel chipsets on offer right now will run better on Win 10 than they will on Win 11, much less than running the best on the upcoming Win 12 which is what Microsoft really needs right now.

Yes, the latest Intel generation does not run as fast as previous generation's products run under the older Win OS generations.

Yes, something is indeed wrong in Wintel land ......

MS needs an innovation progress partner for Win 12, and Intel is all tapped out and snarled up in the past at the moment.   Can AMD meet this need or will Intel have to come back in later on with some "winning mix of features and speed"?

Intel will certainly ring in later on, we are fairly certain of this.   But right now, AMD seems better positioned to be the early partner/winner.


=================================


MS Clippy gets an upgrade --- to Microsoft AI Assistant.

Microsoft is putting AI right out up front in Windows 12 --- how well the processor makers and the various software vendors can do this new tech spells out who will be a winner in 2024.


==================================


Intel has bought the very first section of a brand spanky new ASML production lithography process line.   This refers to Intel's plan to dominate the world at 1.8 angstrom lithography in 2-3 years from now.

Why wasn't TSMC/Apple first in line to get the first 3 lines of this break-through technology  as they normally are?    Apple buys the actual lines from ASML, then has them shipped and installed at TSMC by ASML led tech teams at an Apple specific TSMC facility and Apple then owns all the production rights from off of these new lines until Apple rolls down to a new lower lithography level.
 
????????  

Rumor is that the newest < 2nm ASML stuff really doesn't really work all that well right now, and TSMC/Apple are waiting on Gen 2 or Gen 3 of 2nm for ASML to get the bugs worked out properly before they fully buy into it.  Until then, Intel is left as the only one holding the dubious 18a lithography sack and it stinks pretty bad right now .....


Also we got Canon/Japanese gov. backed competitive units that are coming with a completely new approach to chip making that is far faster and far far cheaper to implement.

On top of this, Apple is having some money problems right now due to large amounts of unsold inventory resulting from their last big TSMC/Apple/ASML project. collaboration.  

This is also due to things not working out as well as expected in a China environment that is rife with Huawei's new processors and Huawei's new Harmony OS that are cutting deeply into Apple's sales in China.

This may lead to the  earlier than expected release of the current set of dedicated Apple processor lines to do state of the art work for AMD and others ......

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/08/24 at 11:35:13

https://liliputing.com/amd-brings-radeon-700m-rdna-3-igpus-to-desktops-with-ryzen-8000g-chips/

This little ditty outlines AMD's current use of advanced graphics cores and more powerful AI chiplet segments to pump up last years API winner into this years API winner.

Intel has already lost when compared to last year's AMD API technology and their next upcoming Intel generation has no chance to win against already being 2 years behind to what AMD just shipped.  
AMD has indeed put a gaming level AI/GPU into their standard run-of-the-mill laptop processors.   AMD met their last year's promises, while Intel ships more smoke and mirrors instead.


==================================


Reality check came quickly --- AMD announced ongoing shipment of refined new generation AMD processors and Intel announced their 1-2 year out plans to beat them.

Everybody is going AI in a big way.   AMD has stuffed their central processing chiplet with AI goodness starting several months ago and Intel has plans to "triple their AI footprint" (whatever that means in Intel speak) starting next year.

Intel is only comparing itself to itself right now, it is the only way for Intel to show any form of progress at this time.  

Intel is actually 2 years behind the pack and can only compete in their 2-3 years out "future plans".   Does Intel think we think AMD and others will be sitting still while they go out 2-3 years to do this?

As far as the brand new ASML EUV production line that Intel took that first container shipment on -- Intel doesn't know how to run it even when they get the rest of the pieces in and can actually try to put it together.

As Intel dog paddles forward, they will slowly get better.   But Intel will never be competitive to AMD as AMD/TSMC is simply staying too many years ahead in their base technology .......

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-8840u-benchmarks-hawk-point-beating-meteor-lake-ai-games

As our automotive companies learned, the last two years of cooperating with Biden's Grand Plan was an unmitigated disaster and poor GM will likely never recover from their dose of Bidenomics.   Ford has Elon Musk sticking his hand out to give them a "buy you boost" back into a solid reality basis, but GM will likely never make it back from Bidenomics land alive as Elon simply doesn't want to buy them --- he wants to buy Ford instead.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/23/24 at 08:04:57

KEY TAKEAWAYS on leak from xda developers on the AMD Strix Point APU processors

AMD's upcoming Ryzen 8000-series 'Strix Point' APUs will likely have 16 RDNA 3.5 GPU cores and 12 Zen 5 CPU cores, making them powerful hybrid processors that would not require a graphics card to do AAA gaming.


https://www.xda-developers.com/amd-ryzen-8000-strix-point-apu-leak/


A leaked screenshot suggests that the APU in question has a 45W TDP, indicating that it may be designed for laptops rather than desktops.

The leaked information also mentions the APU's clock speed, memory configuration, and CPU design, hinting at a competitive offering from AMD compared to Intel's upcoming Arrow Lake processors.

AMD is expected to release its Ryzen 8000-series 'Strix Point' APUs late this year, featuring a combination of Zen 5 CPU cores and RDNA 3.5 integrated graphics. Earlier leaks already revealed several key details about them, including the CPU core count, and now another massive leak has seemingly revealed the full GPU core count of what is likely a Strix Point engineering sample.

According to a HWiNFO screenshot posted on Performance Databases, the Ryzen 8000 series could come with 16 RDNA 3.5 GPU cores and 12 Zen 5 CPU cores in a hybrid config. The particular chip detailed in the report comes with a 45W TDP, which suggests it could be meant for laptops rather than desktops. As can be seen from the screenshot, the leaked APU will come with 1024 unified shaders, which translates to 16 Compute Units.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/25/24 at 03:59:03

Back to the Intel side of things, Intel is going to buy TSMC production lots of industry standard chiplets until they can get their own equipment working right.  

Look for new Intel 20A lithography to use many many small single thread Intel cores that are true power sippers that are combined with a few powerful cores to do the heavy demand stuff instead of using all the light duty background cores.   Processor management software is an Intel necessity ---- count on it.

When combined with Intel AI, the resulting mixed up processing mess will defy most benchmark softwares in most cases.   You will not know what is doing what, much less be able to rank the results of standard software tests.

Power users will tend to migrate to AMD simply because they can understand what they are seeing when they look at results.   Right now, Intel is going backwards in real processor performance due to the use of a preponderance of single thread tiny cores and until Intel gets a lot more of their mini-cores doing relatively more work Intel will continue to lose to AMD.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/29/24 at 13:29:40

It is now being reported that Intel has lapped Samsung and Intel is now the largest "chip producer" in the world.

Watch out for claims like these using metrics that count memory sets as chips as well as counting individual processor tiles as chips .....

Counting only finished assembled CPUs (and not chiplets or memory) is a lot harder to do, but this information would be more relevant to the compute race going on right now.


====================================================


Still, Intel is apparently picking up some steam of late, no matter how you bean count it.


====================================================


TSMC is the world's largest chipmaker using any of these metrics, this is realized after pulling  thumbs out of various orifices and ignoring Intel's ever different funny definitions of what a chip is.  

It is funny, even after allowing Intel to cheat as much as they want, TSMC wins anyway once the Intel funny business is applied equally to both companies.

Title: Re: Computing in 2023
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/12/24 at 11:37:01

Intel lies a lot, really a lot, by inference and by intent ......

Extreme tech Intel announces 18a Design Win for 64 core ARM SoC

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-foundry-announces-18a-design-win-for-64-core-arm-soc

Here is the exact same information from a backed down statement from Tom's Hardware.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-foundry-services-gets-an-arm-neoverse-chip-order-faraday-to-develop-64-core-intel-18a-processor-with-arm-neoverse-design-for-soc-evaluation-platform

So, you have a "specious future order" for a develomental chipset to be made on a brand new type of ASML line that you only have the first third of the actual line delivered (but not yet assembled) with no other big takers on getting their own ASML lines (with all the other players holding off on getting their own line for the bugs to be shaken out by Intel).

Also waiting in the wings is a brand new style of lithography system being put out by Canon of Japan which supposedly is far superior as a simpler process method.   One understands this "wait and see" mentality from everyone but Intel who was under the gun to act very rapidly to stop the loss of their stock valuations .........

Sounds like some more standard Intel BS smoke and mirrors, right?


=================================================


I stand corrected, 20 of the new style ASML lines are actually now on order with ASML from a variety of customers with the proposed deliveries stretching out 5 plus years.    

The rub to this being anything going 3 years out is likely going to be overcome by events long before it is shipped.

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