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Computing in 2023 (Read 2490 times)
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #45 - 06/23/23 at 17:56:10
 

verslagen1 wrote on 06/23/23 at 11:07:37:
how about a link to the fixer upper?


link to fixer upper ---- note recent price drop to under $180 on the last 4 units that remain

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


Also note the specified i7-4770-3.4 GHz processor is the very tippy top unit of that core i-7 4th generation and that particular matching socket generation --- there is nothing better that will drop into that particular motherboard and socket combo.

There will be some better things that come along later, though inside a new 5th generation of Intel stuff ......

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« Last Edit: 06/24/23 at 16:07:39 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #46 - 06/23/23 at 18:23:59
 

bobert,

The people "gamer-izing" these old boxes run the OEM Win 10 as it is close to native to the generations of hardware that they are using.   Especially for the older cheaper graphics cards,

They are avoiding problems and simplifying their lives during their sell in period.

When Windows trashes my system trying to "upgrade" it or else tries to force sell me an expensive upgrade package to Win 11 you already know where I will go with it.   My experience has been that Linux completely covers these old Dell machines with Linux compatible drivers and may have already done so for this one.

.....  cranking up a new retro box under Windows ain't totally hassle free ......

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« Last Edit: 07/02/23 at 15:33:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #47 - 06/23/23 at 21:42:24
 
thanks, my daughter is looking.

I looked up when I got my last box from your rec... 2020
quite happy with it, although I did double the ram.
can't beat getting a free computer with every copy of windows software.
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #48 - 06/24/23 at 09:44:43
 


WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the box refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies stop coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending more than the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the wholistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster compared to the AMD.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i3  and is greatly lacking to many modern laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.


I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.



Tongue

Move fast when you see what you like



For example, as of Saturday they are down to their very last unit from this particular batch of units ......


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QMTGW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details    all are gone as of Sunday AM.




===================================


They do get a flow of batches of similar units in sporadically, with the price fluctuating between the features in the batches.   You can check on this daily flow of Amazon refurbs here.

LOOK HERE .......   3 new batches showing with slightly lower prices .........


https://www.amazon.com/hz/mobile/mission?p=8jdYGfp7KfvMBLEZ4WBoUA8N2WeHmoSZnQ...

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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:29:19 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #49 - 06/28/23 at 09:04:05
 

I am a creature of my past habits ......

I know WiFi can do it all now-a-days ----- but all my existing devices were older hard wired LAN networking stuff and I am all out of plug in LAN connections again.

I find that I can buy me a $250 8 connection un-monitored self contained gigabyte rated LAN switch for the low low price of $19 right now,

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A121WN6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UT...

Some of the home connection services I have looked at lately only have one (1) wired LAN connection jack (and I did not go that route because of this lack).

I think highly of the reliability and the security of wired LAN connections, so I will put the 8 new LAN jacks on the floor behind my desk and have the 4 LAN jacks (with 2 remaining open) on the back of the Spectrum box for supporting my wife's desk.

Happiness is a fully wired house ......
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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #50 - 07/02/23 at 12:55:21
 

WARNING:   DO NOT GO HERE


I sent back my fix it upper today.

Why?

Stickers on the OS inside of the PC case refer back to the Win8 generation for the base hardware generation and listing Win 8 the original OS.

The refurb house updated some software things to Win 10.  

The hardware itself isn't near to current, not by 3-4 generations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApGq4FkkYLc&ab_channel=TechYESCity

Trying to put a system together is symied by the mix of fixes that are used and the fact that back then Dell was custom buying their own design of power supplies and I/O systems.  Dell power supplies have to be replaced to use the box as a gaming rig and this choice stream is "clear as mud" when the power supplies have stopped coming in color coded wires and are all simple black wires which makes connection level wiring confirmation impossible.

Deciding which items are important and can be updated, this leads to leaving some stuff in the dust of ages while fixing up other stuff.  Compatibility becomes a concern when your modern power supply senses hi/lo issues and shuts itself off periodically.

You wind up spending the cost of one of these low end new AMD boxes on all the bits and pieces needed to fix your ancient Intel Core i7, but you don't get the holistic modern performance from your Core i7 upgrade patchwork monster.

The "modernized" Core i7 itself is a four core that does not equal the performance of a modern Core i5 currently at six cores  .......  and this antique Core i7 is greatly lacking in performance to many modern Core i5 laptop set ups.

So, I cut my losses and sent it all back to Amazon using the many incompatibilities as the reason.

I am putting this on the lead thread up top as a purple warning to NOT GO HERE.   It was a bad idea that was being pumped up big time by some YouTube fanboys and an Amazon refurb house.

These boxes sure look good, but come in poorly packaged for modern UPS delivery and the intertwined incompatibilities leave a mucky taste in your mouth when it is all over.
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« Last Edit: 07/20/23 at 14:33:18 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #51 - 07/06/23 at 05:19:07
 

Intel dumps off on next year's plans for improved Intel processors.

The 2 angstrom and 1.2 angstrom Intel processor family plans are officially and formally dumped now.   All the promised special generations of 7nm stuff is either done, or else considered water over the dam or else are being subsumed in Intel's endless round of BS name changes.

They were BS anyway, as the Intel 10nm (alias 3.0 angstrom) has already run its paces (and did it somewhat poorly) and the 1.2 angstrom never will be as Intel had dumped off all development on it earlier this  year in favor of TSMC 3nm (which BTW still hasn't happened in hard reality).

So we are left with another "same same" refresh for this year.

Intel (next year) hopes to make up some bogus claims for Intel cores run off TSMC 3nm next year as everyone else will be running TSMC 3nm ++ when Intel runs their first 3nm gen 1 batches.  Intel is choking on their own design's gate all around issues and has failed to ship test lots already promised to their vendor base.

AMD is currently doing preliminary vendor work on some gate all around 2nm Samsung cores as their up and coming smaller cores right now as AMD works through the various gate all around teething issues on the newer lithography levels.  

AMD has TSMC 3nm + in production as their current big cores with 3nm++ starting late this year.  Intel will be trying to go TSMC 3mn while AMD is moving to 2nm inside that same year.

AMD is doing well using "stacking a layer of memory" on top of their chipsets, as throughput is greatly increased although the resulting conjoined current draw is going up and the "lidded by memory chip set excess heating and cooling" is becoming more of an issue.  

Intel had earlier promulgated a bunch of heavy duty CPU cooling tricks that AMD is starting to use now.

With the recent strong decline in the US Dollar it is all becoming so very very expensive, so much so that us old retired people will likely never see any of it ......


==================================


Another market that Intel started that is no longer competitive in --- and Intel has just dumped it off completely due to no sales ....... the NUC.

NUC (Next Unit of Computing) as a class or style has a healthy market in Asia, but nothing competitive is coming from Intel at all now, so it gets the axe from Intel at the end of this month.

Interesting point from ASUS   Although Intel is dumping out of the NUC market at the end of this month ASUS feels that the NUC market segment itself is still sound.  

https://liliputing.com/asus-will-make-sell-and-support-nuc-systems-after-inte...

ASUS feels that new competitive NUC units using new Intel processors will continue to come out in this NUC market segment, not being driven by Intel per se but driven by ASUS and other active competitors using both AMD and ARM and Intel chipsets.


==================================


Intel still sells a lot of finished box computers using older technology.   Gamers tend to be state of the art, and are buying more and more AMD lately.

Intel still sells the majority of the tech that is available to be purchased by us common people in finished forms.

So, Intel still supplies 70-75% of the processors that are being sold.
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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:32:14 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #52 - 07/20/23 at 04:52:27
 

Intel has begun spinning their newest fantasy processors --- processors that are a "refresh" of the same old stuff all over again.

They confuse in a generous bit of their next year's TSMC "future stuff" to season it a bit, as without the extra TSMC spice it would be too bland to bother reading.

Since Intel now uses tiles (chiplets) this is "possible" but not a firm commitment at this time.

This proposed Intel generation will pull over 200 amps of power, so you know it has got to be another stock Intel room heater ......


==================================


AMD has refined their big little to be always the same exact architecture on the bigs and the littles, so the processor management is greatly simplified.

AMD has proposed actually using different vendors and their resulting different chiplet sizes on the same silicone, but to the software sending work to them they will appear to be all the same architecture with some minor variation in throughput speeds.
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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:33:27 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #53 - 07/22/23 at 13:50:58
 

Beelink continues to innovate in the NUC space with AMD Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 processors with built in gaming graphics.




The AMD 65 watt processor's heat is removed using a laptop style vapor chamber, something Intel did first but it wasn't enough to handle Intel's higher heat output capacities.

Beelink can run off an AMD APU style combined processor, running BOTH the processor and the video system off the same vapor chamber heat sink.


Wink




Massive improvements already announced will come for this rig next year .......
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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:34:26 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #54 - 07/27/23 at 14:31:18
 

Wow, Intel drops out of NUC market completely and all of the various other makers are coming out with alternatives that are better spec'd and relatively more powerful.

...... and most from the far east are a lot cheaper, too.

Folks are saying that Intel dropped out so abruptly because AMD's new APUs were coming out as full gaming level devices with far more processor and more GPU and AI all coming in a lower power consumption product.










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« Last Edit: 08/09/23 at 23:38:53 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #55 - 07/28/23 at 18:13:23
 

I just finished reading my feeds and stuff ........   Intel is wounded and isn't doing very well.

Intel is renaming everything that they are keeping yet again (a common Intel reaction when they are going to be non-competitive for a bit).

AMD is caught out by having NO COMPETITOR at this point in time.   Literally, AMD is only competing against its own last generation of stuff which is comparable to Intel's best at this point in time.

AMD's plans are being upgraded by their AMD mainframe chiplet's progress simply reading through to the consumer processors by osmosis.

AMD isn't pushing big little as a main focus, but it is indeed coming due to mainframe chiplet osmosis.

AMD had said big little wasn't coming to desktop chips this year, but it is indeed coming to laptop chipsets starting Q4 this year.   I don't pretend to understand exactly what AMD is saying, exactly, but 4c chiplets will still have two threads like the big boy cores of today and will have similar speed ranges to the current main AMD gen 4 cores.

One is forced to ASSume lithography changes between gen 4 (5 and 4nm) and gen 5 (3 and 2mn) will be massive enough to cover this discrepancy and have it all make sense.  

TSMC and Samsung as different vendors are reading through at this time, somehow.

Gen 5 starts shipping in full production levels next year with a big increase in core counts per the same size socket/processor chip sizes.

How many cores,  you ask?    20 state of the art PC cores and up ...... 32 has been mentioned for Ryzen 9 (or Ryzen 12 if you are using proper rumor speak for that generation).

The rumored AMD APU stuff from earlier this year is indeed shipping right now, with the  included gaming level graphics and somewhat significant internal AI processor support that was just rumored stuff this spring.
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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:36:41 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #56 - 07/29/23 at 04:54:06
 
Summary, Intel is at big little with relatively HUGE old style Intel lithography from 2-3 generations ago.

AMD is still salting down their own version of big little, with last years 3nm TSMC lithography as the bigs and are working on including chiplets of 2nm Samsung lithography as their littles.

AMD is spanning the start of "gate all around" in large scale production while Intel is just moving finally to TSMC FinFet.

Intel is moving in secret so they can go lie freely all around it.   Intel needs the lies as their reality isn't really so great right now.

I wish I had lots of dollars to spend on some new equipment, as that 20 plus cores of AMD goodness appeals to me quite a bit.

Intel, not so much.



=================================



THIS PAST FEW WEEKS ......    Intel scraps the Bing search engine, scraps the Cortana voice search interface, and stops development on most announced new Intel innovations while laying off personnel right and left.

Intel is losing both money and market share this year ........      Intel MUST return to a profit basis ASAP or Wall Street will functionally shut them down.

Intel will TRY to come out with a new generation of processors every 2 years, but they will be rather slow and out of date to current technology from TSMC, Apple and AMD.  

These new processors will be likely be built at TSMC USA using 5nm lithography whenever the facility finally opens in 1-2 years.   At that time they will be using two to three levels back TSMC tech, not the current state of the art built in Taiwan tech that Apple and AMD will be using.

Intel will strongly depend on marketing BS and lies to make their stuff sound competitive when is it definitely NOT current nor competitive nor state of the art.



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« Last Edit: 08/05/23 at 03:46:37 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #57 - 08/08/23 at 02:54:35
 

Here comes the Intel Raptor Lake Refresh, complete with brand new BS Intel marketing lies while using the same out of date lithography as used in the last 4 years.

Intel isn't going to win with this one, too little and too late to compete against superior AMD products already flooding the market place.

But this is good, as within a quarter prices will drop yet again due to Intel competition for market share.

Intel serves to keep AMD honest, which is backwards to how it used to work.  Mebbe we simply say they take turns keeping the other one honest ...... this will work unchanged going forward.

Yes, Intel will rack up a few blue bars on the big graph that I keep showing you.  Each time you get a blue bar you get another red bar that beats up on it, so you see the two competing in fine details getting better over time.

Look to see Intel increasing core counts with lots of 1 thread only Intel small cores.

AMD will counter this with their own small cores (2 threads each) in the future, but right now AMD is moving itself based on thread count equity, not excess amounts of power sucking little cores ---- each AMD core is always worth two threads and all the Intel littles are only worth one thread.  

Still on the larger side of things Intel is walking away with over 20 threads and we are promised even bigger thread counts from both parties in the future.

It would be really nice if sofware actually used all these threads, games for example really can't use over 4 threads effectively right now.
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« Last Edit: 08/09/23 at 23:33:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #58 - 08/09/23 at 22:53:20
 

Intel's first benchmarks are out on their Raptor Lake refresh at +10% compared to the existing Intel products.

This is problematical for Intel, as it just matches previous generations of the AMD products but Intel is running at much higher wattages and temperatures.

Meanwhile AMD has come out with a brand new true 10% improved processing simply by using a larger faster "on chip memory cache".  AMD is also is currently lining up at 20% throughput improvements by using better lithography levels.  First tests show AMD at a combined +25% improvement levels.

AMD's APU laptop chipsets are actually beating up on Intel main PC chipsets .....   and gaming users are now flocking to AMD's little square boxes on Amazon in preference to building a new box themselves.

NOTE HOWEVER, that Intel is still selling every chipset they can make because Intel users are buying replacement units from the big box stores where Intel has contractual lockdowns that stop their AMD machines from ever being considered.

People buying selectively over the internet are buying more AMD, while the brick and mortar  stores are only selling Intel.

The trend to stop building your own boxes is increasing as the cost of an entire AMD based small box unit is less than the cost of a "sufficient" graphics card would cost ......

Remember, AMD APUs come with gaming graphics built in the processor itself now a days ....... so the whole game is changing by and large.
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« Last Edit: 08/20/23 at 23:29:25 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Computing in 2023
Reply #59 - 08/10/23 at 19:41:05
 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CBQ77ZWN/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?i...



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CBQ77ZWN/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?i...

I have been reading up a bit about these little Beelink gaming boxes and how they get marked down at Amazon all the time.  

Some actually become quite good deals during the later well marked down "change over" to a new generation with the older units moving down to half price or thereabouts simply to get them out of the way.  

This is my ~ half price ~ 8 core 16 thread Ryzen 7 unit at $352 after taxes.

OK, let's find out if it works out OK  -----  i.e. I bought me a little AMD APU box, an 8 core 16 thread Ryzen 7 box with a 1 terabyte SSD and 16 gigs of DDR4 memory for $352.

This is less money than a decent video card costs.

It will run Linux Mint supposedly and actually comes with Windows 11 actually completely installed new in the box.   I was surprised, pleasantly.  

But I know in my heart Mickysoft will screw me over and piss me off soon enough.

Just like the last box I bought, I will send it back to Amazon if it turns into a pain in the ass like the last one did.  I have better expectations of a good result on this Beelink box, I do believe.

I will withhold all enthusiastic knee jerking until it completely proves out to be a good thing .......


Grin

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« Last Edit: 08/11/23 at 21:42:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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