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Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Frame (Read 894 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #45 - 03/15/21 at 10:37:44
 
I've used the double nut idea ,win some lose some, so I thought some loktite  in the mix might help.
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jd290
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #46 - 03/15/21 at 14:41:37
 
Just as an FYI, I was able to remove the cylinder head recently by removing all of the engine to frame mounting bolts except the bottom rear. (Just loosen that one to use as a pivot) Once you have done this, loosen the drive belt adjuster nuts/bolts and the engine will tilt forward giving you enough room to remove head. It's a lot of work. You will have to support the bike with jacks because the kickstand has to be removed in order to remove one of the bottom engine mount bolts.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #47 - 10/03/22 at 16:44:16
 
I find myself reading this thread because one of my cylinder head cover bolts stripped out some of the threads at 80 inch pounds.
It is the bolt on the far right side just ahead of the camshaft, 125mm long.  It goes through the head cover and head, and threads into the cylinder.  Nine threads still remain down there.
These pullers are quite ingenious, but maybe someone has had this problem before.  What did you do to fix it?

Here is what I have tried so far:
I am trying to get another 130mm bolt from Suzuki (the mate to this bolt behind the camshaft is 130mm) maybe even 135.
I bought some 6mm all thread, but it doesn't want to screw into the remaining threads.  I tried running a die down it, but I suspect it is a rolled thread/cut thread problem.
I am considering doing myself bodily harm.

Other than the BH part, does anyone have any good suggestions?

Please advise.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #48 - 10/03/22 at 17:13:59
 
How deep can you run a bolt into it?
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #49 - 10/03/22 at 17:35:34
 
With the cylinder cover off, I can run the original bolt down 9 1/2 turns.  I think that might be enough to hold the cover on if I use a longer bolt.

The all-thread wouldn't go in beyond 2 turns though, for some reason.  I suspect it is the shape of the threads.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #50 - 10/03/22 at 18:09:10
 
You can repair the front-right head cover bolt, and mid-right head cover bolt by drilling through and installing a 1/4-20 grade 8 bolt with a grade 8 nut.  It can be done without removing the engine from the frame.  Do not attempt to do this on the rear-right head cover bolt.  That requires cylinder head removal because the rear-right head cover bolt hole also serves as an oil passage.

This shows a repair of the mid-right bolt.  Just drill straight through with a 1/4 inch bit.  These long bits are readily available at any decent hardware store.

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Stripped_Thread_Repair_2.JPG

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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #51 - 10/03/22 at 18:10:58
 
When the bolt and nut are installed, it looks fine and can be tightened up without fear of pulling the guts out.  The grade 8 fasteners can really take the stress.
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Stripped_Thread_Repair_10.JPG

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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #52 - 10/03/22 at 18:13:26
 
You might have to do a bit of grinding on the cylinder to get the nut in place, but its minimal.  I love this repair.  I actually do it to all my builds now.  It's way more robust than the stock setup.
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Stripped_Thread_Repair_11.JPG

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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #53 - 10/04/22 at 02:32:48
 
This is definitely an option.  I appreciate your response.  (Also glad to know mine is not the first to have this issue.)  It does certainly look stronger.  

Do you use the same torque setting on this bolt?  I see your remark that the bolt can take the stress.  Just worried about distorting something else by having this bolt torqued differently.

Thanks for this idea!
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #54 - 10/05/22 at 20:07:26
 
It will easily handle the factory service manual spec of 6 - 8.5 ft-lbs.  On the 1/4" grade 8 bolts, I go past that a bit.  A 1/4 inch grade 8 bolt should be torqued to about 9 ft-lbs with lubricant, 10 ft-lbs zinc plated, or 12 ft-lbs plain & dry.  The torque wrench is essentially a way to measure the friction in the fastening system.  Lube the threads and you use less torque because there is less friction.

Note: zinc plating is considered a form of lubrication.

The weak link in this system is the aluminum internal threads.  IMO, the aluminum threads give up over time.  The cyclic stress resulting from thermal expansion keeps working at the aluminum threads and eventually they crap out.  Of course, they can also fail if the bolt is overtightened, but a correctly designed fastening system will fail on the bolt, not the internal threads.  That's why whenever a steel bolt is used in an aluminum component, there's like at least double the length of engagement.  I suspect the Suzuki design department has an army of engineers that stay busy all day long doin fastener calcs.  I'm willing to bet they got the design right.  But as I mentioned, over time, the constant increase/decrease in stress as the cylinder and head heat up and cool down fatigues the aluminum internal threads.  Keep in mind that when the stress is highest, the assembly is also hottest.  The yield strength of aluminum tanks at a pretty low temp.

Drill through and put a nut on the bottom and now you no longer have any aluminum threads to worry about.  Even though the length of thread engagement is only about one-fourth of the original design, the grade-eight steel is so much stronger than the cast aluminum that the reduced engagement does not compromise strength.  An additional bonus is if there is a fastener failure, it will be the bolt.  Install a new nut and bolt, rock-n-roll.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #55 - 10/05/22 at 21:26:54
 
I am so doing this to my hot rod motor!  Thanks once again, DBM!
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #56 - 10/06/22 at 11:04:18
 
With the years of feeling bolts come to their clamping force, I prefer that over a torque wrench in places other than heads and things that have to not leak under pressure.
In this case, the fact that a book said X inch pounds of torque gave him a target Other than the feel of a bolt coming tight. With a thumb on the head of a 1/4" ratchet and using fingers closing to move the ratchet, you can Feel rotation that isn't matched by an increased resistance, which IS what the very first split second of failed threads does. It's possible to Stop there and get away with it. Knowing the next time you have to go in there, you are gonna hafta address that.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #57 - 10/06/22 at 15:08:32
 
Sneezy, your motor is apart right now.  You should do the right-rear bolt hole too.  It will require a spotface on the bottom of the cylinder, a notch in the fin just below the bolt, and an acorn nut.  Since you have it all apart you will be able to clean out the oil passage.  I will try and do a post that provides the gory details.  It's easy to do.  You end up with something like this.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #58 - 10/06/22 at 15:35:10
 
Cool
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

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'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #59 - 10/08/22 at 15:51:17
 
Okay, DBM, I did  it.

Glad I did, too!  I kept trying to think of someway to salvage the original design.  Finally bit the bullet and drilled it out.

Now that I see the other pix, I might do the front one too.

Thanks for posting this, my bike is back on the road, and I am finally getting to enjoy it!
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