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Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Frame (Read 894 times)
Dave
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #90 - 12/10/23 at 03:00:51
 
I have removed the cylinder studs on 2 engines for shipping. The crankcase is far easier to ship without those studs sticking out!

One one engine I was able to double nut the studs and get them out without much issue.

On the other engine it was a battle and double nuts did nothing to turn the stud out....when you put a wrench on the bottom nut and started to turn with force the nut would turn rather than the stud.  I believe I had to stack 3 or 4 together before I could get the stubborn studs out.  Put a long handle box end wrench on the stud prior to stacking up the nuts.....you don't want to use an open end wrench on the bottom nut.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #91 - 12/10/23 at 06:09:43
 
Dave, you were obviously working with the engine out of the frame.  Were you pulling the studs with the head already removed (I’m guessing yes).  With the head still on, it doesn’t sound like there is enough stud sticking out to get 1 double nut on there (much less 2-3 nuts).  And getting a box end in there ain’t gunna happen with the head on and motor in the frame.

I’m still going to try to find an M9-1.25P coupling nut 24-40mm long.  I’d like to avoid doing the tap and dye of a suitably different sized coupler.  I don’t have a M9-1.25P tap (I’ve got an M8 and M10 and other sizes, but no 9-iron) so I’d have to buy that (and then probably never use it again).  Adding to my collection of tools that I only needed to use 1 time.

Another possibility, using the double-nut idea would be to find a M9-1.25P nut with a smaller head.  It would butt down on the existing head nut, but allow you to get a deep well socket over it and only grab the bigger M9 head nut underneath.  Worth a look and try.  My concern with this, if such a smaller-headed M9 nut exists, would be its strength given the lesser amount of nut material (thinner from threads to hex outside size).

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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #92 - 12/10/23 at 10:41:33
 
ThumperPaul wrote on 12/10/23 at 06:09:43:
Dave, you were obviously working with the engine out of the frame.  Were you pulling the studs with the head already removed (I’m guessing yes).  With the head still on, it doesn’t sound like there is enough stud sticking out to get 1 double nut on there (much less 2-3 nuts).  And getting a box end in there ain’t gunna happen with the head on and motor in the frame.


Ooops.......yep!  The engine was out of the frame, the head and cylinder were off - silly me!
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #93 - 12/10/23 at 11:06:36
 
It is still good to know!  Just making sure I’m wrapping my head around this correctly!  Removing at least the 2 rear studs through the head with the motor still in the frame isn’t going to be fun!  Mike makes everything sound easy!
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #94 - 12/12/23 at 07:47:16
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 12/08/23 at 17:25:00:
When I tried to break the tool loose, the whole stud turned in the vice.  The marks on the coupling nut and stud stayed in alignment.  That seemed impressive, but when I set up some tools to make sure the stud couldn't rotate, the removal tool broke loose at about 120 inch-lbs.  That's not too impressive but I suspect it should be good enough.


Mike, when you jab the bolt in the coupler I'm guessing you do that really tight forced against the stud.  To turn the stud out, are you using a wrench on the hex coupler to back it out counter-clockwise?  I'm trying to wrap my head around how this works without the jab bolt being reverse threaded.  How does it maintain tension?  Or does the stud just need to be broken loose with the coupler tool and then you can finger out the stud the rest of the way?
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #95 - 12/12/23 at 12:18:04
 
It relies solely on the friction developed in the threads, similar to the double nut method.  Since it relies on friction, you don't want any oil on the threads of either the stud or the coupling nut, and you want as much thread engagement as possible (more threads = more friction, at least 9mm).  You jam the cap screw down onto the end of the stud, which loads up all the threads.  Make it as tight as you can (within reason).  To remove the stud, I turn the coupling nut.  As previously mentioned, as long as the stud is not set with Loctite or corroded, it will probably work.  If it doesn't, you aren't any worse off.

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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #96 - 12/12/23 at 14:11:51
 
Thanks Mike.  Once it breaks free by turning the coupler (hopefully!), I imagine it turns more easily - like… can you finger turn it out once it’s broken free?  Sorry for all the ignorant newbie questions.  Just trying to get a sense of what I might expect.  Obviously, I’m a bit nervous and anxious!  Trying to study and learn as much as I can to gain some confidence!
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #97 - 12/13/23 at 12:33:39
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 12/08/23 at 17:02:52:
So, if I were to drill and tap one side of the coupling nut M9 x 1.25, I could use a M8 x 1.25 socket head screw in the other half of the nut to jam against the stud.

The tap drill for M9 x 1.25 is 5/16".  Mark the drill with some tape so I know when it's gone in about 12mm (half the coupling nut).


DBM - I'm guessing the 5/16" drill bit glides right through the 8mm threads and shears the outer threads.  Since 5/16" = 7.94mm and < 8mm.

I've bought the 8mm/24mm long coupler.  I'm waiting for the M9-1.25P tap to arrive from Amazon.  It includes a 7.8mm carbide drill bit.  That bit is really going to glide right thru the 8mm threads (and its probably a bad idea to try to waller it out)???  I do have a 5/16" drill bit if I should use that instead of the 7.8mm.

I'm "struggling to grasp" it there will be deep enough threads after tapping out an 8mm to 9mm with either 5/16" or 7.8mm (both are smaller than 8mm).

And like you, I searched the world over for a 9mm coupler with none to be found.  I have one more custom place I need to check out.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #98 - 12/13/23 at 17:21:56
 
You will be fine using the 7.8mm drill.  The thread pitch in the coupling is the same as the tap, so any remaining threads after the drilling operation will help get the tap started and guide it as it cuts the 9mm threads.  The hardest part will be keeping the tap straight until it gets a good start.

Yes, you do not want to "waller it out" with the drill.  Just run the drill into the coupling about half-way, and keep it straight.  As previously mentioned, it might be helpful to drill in small increments.  Then tap the threads.  Hope you have a tap handle.  It will be very difficult to keep the tap straight if you are using a crescent wrench.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #99 - 12/13/23 at 18:18:48
 
Thanks for the assurance, Mike.  I have a tap handle and bench vise.  I just need my old hands to be steady and not cut crooked sloppy threads.
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Re: Removing the Cylinder Head with Engine in Fram
Reply #100 - 12/24/23 at 11:01:25
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 01/05/21 at 15:32:35:
Once the rear studs are out, there’s enough room to remove the cylinder head.  The rear chain guide makes things a bit clumsy.  I suggest you remove the rear chain guide before attempting to lift the head off.


Getting the head off with or without the rear cam chain guide in place sounds like a challenge either way you do it.
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