Bill,

Shell Advance is brand new stuff for South America and Asia and only certain parts of Europe, so no data exists for it on Bobistheoilguy or on any USA bike or oil list yet -- could be nobody around here has bought any and tested any yet.

I'd like to see what they put in it and how it stacks up against USA Rotella spec-wise.

I betcha it costs a good bit more though .....

If you wanna look at the bottle, go here  (site is in English).

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-69331-shell-advance-sx4-10w-40-four-stroke-engine...

Blinky-FSO wrote on 08/02/12 at 13:24:39:


Blinky, I don't see any rebuttal to your well researched post. I believe you are spot on and there is no way to argue with it. Good work!!  

bill67 wrote on 08/03/12 at 05:10:10:

Shell said it because that's what will hold up in court. Off the record they would prolly say something completely different but then again, they would only tell you something off the record if you were an actual journalist/reporter; in which case you would be under obligation to not tell anyone including friends, family and surely not some random strangers on a website or risk losing your job and reputation and subsequently your career.

Again, your logic is flawed.

That's not what I said and you know it. You're clearly trying to derail the conversation because you're losing the argument.

Your logic is flawed because you think the only thing that matters is what the manufacturer said.

 
I've been looking at the "extra additives cause issues with car cylinder walls thing" trying to find any source data on it other than that one technical consultant that was mentioned by Uno.

Although it does not apply to HDEO Universal oils such as Rotella T and T-6 as they are not simple diesel oils you get the most information on this subject by Googling "problems with diesel oil in car engines" and you get listings of issues having to do with cat converters and oil viscosity being too high (cars generally use 10w30 weight oils) and every list you check into says something about the extra detergents scrubbing up the engine "too good" removing static sludge and the piston ring area carbon deposits which can lead to packed seals weeping oil due to no sludge seal and worn piston rings not getting their carbon ring helpers up above the top ring and causing more oil to get past the ring.

Each listing called out a different read on the evil done by "too much detergent" and all of them seemed to be pointed at older, much worn V8 style engines.  

Uno's consultant is the only one found so far who says high detergent levels causes a piston wall drag performance issue -- so to find any confirmation on that you go looking for discussions on RACING oils (drag racing especially) and you find discussions that detergent laden oils don't do as well in very high HP situations compared to oils without detergents.  

This jives with the race world's knowledge base on oils, and explains why straight race oils have no additive packs in them for much of anything other than ZDDP antiwear (since the oil gets dumped out every few hours of running time and max hp is the total name of the game in their world).

So, the gist of what I found is that diesel oil cleans up the engine.  And in an old American V8 style car, that might not always be a good thing.

I also found references to "acidification" due to the higher sulphur content of diesel oil.   This was true with older formulations, but modern formulations such as Rotella have greatly reduced amounts of sulphur in them.  And as a matter of interest, the JASO spec calls out a max sulphur content as part of their specification tests so JASO limits sulphur content to no more than normal car oils can have.

In short, yes Uno's point of extra detergents increasing running drag on pistons was valid, but mostly for drag racers and race cars and such like.  

And I am sure that cleaning up the static sludge in an engine and causing loss of carbon deposits above piston top rings will cause greater oil consumption in theory.  But I am not aware of much static sludge sitting around in our Savage engines and our big pistons and 4 valve seals pass a little oil after 15,000-20,000 miles anyway.

And I do not think the amount of hp loss due to "detergency" in our 30 hp Savage engine is going to be noticeable or measurable.

Cavi, Wiggly Bill does the "worm on the hook" dance every time he runs out of real arguments.   Get used to it, we actually used to keep a hook around here sometimes for when he gets lonely for it.

He lives by throwing out distractions and asking "questions" about oils that aren't even available in the USA.  

Don't fall into the trap of trying to answer some of his really weird hypothetical questions -- for example I refused to reply to a hypothetical nonsense question last oil war that had me in some fictional alternate universe where I was forced to choose between two different $14 a quart bottles of funny colored oil.

 (in no alternate reality even remotely possible would I ever be buying any $14 a quart bottles of oil).

 
Proposed list of Recommended American Oils to go into the Tech Section

Criteria are 1200 ppm of ZDDP,   JASO rating,  available at Walmart, Advance Auto Parts, O'Reilly, Autozone,  cost to be less than $8 a quart for dino and less than $12 a quart for a full synthetic.

Let' er rip boys, let's see your erls !!!

Cavi your probability one of McDonald"s best customer.