I'm just glad I made the switch to T-6.

As long as they leave my Rotella alone,, Ill keep smilin,,

Ok Old feller, I have to play devil's advocate here. This thread has been very interesting and entertaining. And while It is obvious by your comments that you have done your homework on this subject, I have to agree with Charon and Rtf2003 that we should have a 2 part list with different criteria for each. Although I am sure there are many folks who change their oil on a last minute whim and need to find a good oil quick, if someone is going through the trouble of consulting our list I believe that is a buyer who will take whatever measures he/she needs to get the oil they feel is best for the bike.
I also believe that not everyone is comfortable using a perceived  "diesel" oil in their bike. Now don't get me wrong, I went right out and bought a jug of T6 based on your recommendation because I  recognize that it is a superior product and that is what is important to me. But, for the guy that insists the jug says "Motorcycle Oil" on it, Rotella doesn't cut it. So, I agree, we should have an "Approved list" AND a "Recommended" list. Let the Bike owner decide if he wants to buy it at Wally world or online.
My last point is back to Valvoline. I probably wont be able to convince you to put it on your list because the list criteria is so narrow as to only include Rotella and Mobil1. And based on your comments about Mobil1 it seems you allow it on the list begrudgingly. Nonetheless, Valvoline "Motorcycle oil does meet JASO test criteria. Does contain ZDDP although not to the level you have deemed sufficient. And the full line of dino, blended, and full synthetic IS available locally at Napa.
If we are really trying to make a list of oils that a "newbie" could check to see what was a suitable oil to put in his/her Suzy, than Valvoline is definately good enough to be on it IMHO. Again,Oldfeller, thanks for starting this post as it got me researching and when you research you learn. Feedback anyone?

 
Honda single cam forum would represent the largest forum for the oldest flat tappet bikes, the sandcast CB 750 would be the oldest bike there.

http://forums.sohc4.net/


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My mind keeps drifting back to Valvoline.   Does Valvoline represent the current norm of "motorcycle oils" with no more than 1,100 ppm of ZDDP in it?   This use of calcium and magnesium (which used to be thought of as "detergents") is it really any good as an anti-wear agent?  There ARE calcium based add packs that are becoming more commonly used in car oils --- are they effective in flat tappet Suzuki Savage engines?  

So many questions about my search yesterday into Valvoline.  I have lots of Used Oil data I could go look at, but that is used oil so your ZDDP ppm is partially depleted.

I see you found Valvoline in stock at a NAPA store.   That's good.  

No, I didn't grudgingly accept Mobil 1, I just don't trust it to stay the same for very long (with good reason).   I listed the Vtwin stuff but WD was the one to point out the energy star stuff that is still in it.

As far as listing "all the various bike oils" -- forget it.   May as well not even have a recommended list.   Most of them, you can't get them locally when you need them.   The intent for this list is to give a newbie a place to go to get a good oil right now just as easily as getting whatever wrong car stuff he has been using.  We want to do this in order to keep him from hurting his bike's engine by using the wrong oils.


Oh well, it is Sunday Morning August 5th, I think I'll go watch my DVR'd Olympics from last night for an hour or so.  

Then I am going to get on my Savage and go look at the motorcycle oil sections at Advanced, Autozone, O'Reillys, and Wally to see what is actually there any more.   They gots to be selling something for a motorcycle oil .....

 
I'm Back ....

My local Wally Supercenter has deleted it's motorcycle oil display space completely and "no longer carry motorcycle oils".   Ain't that a kick, but it is in line with Wally's online system.  You can order it, but they don't stock it (except for Rotella products and I think that was accidental, not on purpose as the jugs are sitting with the main gallon jugs of oil, just like always)

Autozone still has a motorcycle oil display that contains the old bottles of Castrol 4T Motorcycle (dino) in 10w40 and 20w50 with a service API listing SH and SG.   JASO marked, no claims for ZDDP listed.   $6.99 a quart.

Autozone also carries Valvoline Motorcycle 4 stroke (dino) in 10w40 and 20w50 with a service API listing SF, SG and SJ .   JASO marked, no claims for ZDDP listed.   $5.99 a quart.

Autozone also carries the old Mobil 1 motorcycle product line for $9.99 a quart.

Yup, Mobil 1 is changing up the bike oils yet again
-- which one of you guys went and changed your underwear ???


Advanced Auto Parts had a motorcycle oil section containing the exact same dino oils as Autozone, but with additional oils added to the mix.  

These were Valvoline 4T Racing synthetic in 10w40 and 20w50 rated "Exceeds API Services SJ/SG/SF" and is JASO MA rated.  $9.88 a quart.

Castrol Power RS Racing 4T which is a synthetic that "Exceeds API SL" and is JASO MA rated.  $9.99 a quart.

And they had the NEW and IMPROVED Mobil 1 Racing 4T which has been "reformulated and improved" yet again.  This new black bottle is in 10w40 and 20w50 and you struggle to read what API grades the new bottle claims to honor as the print is very very small.   But it is NEW and IMPROVED yet again .....

So Advanced has a better selection of bike oils than Autozone.

O'Reilly was different, they showcased Lucas motorcycle oil products which get terrible terrible reviews on BITOG.  They also carried the same Castrol and Mobil 1 products that Advanced Auto Parts did, so they did have some relatively better bike oil for the more knowledgeable to buy.   BUT, they had the Lucas dino and synthetics showcased and priced a buck cheaper, so I would think they have a special arrangement with Lucas of some kind.


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What did I learn from my little day trip to bike oil land?

Bike oils are now quoting the old SF, SG, SH and SJ standards so you have to guess once again how much ZDDP they actually carry inside them.   The oil manufacturers are only listing specs on what they want you to know, and ZDDP isn't apparently something you should know.

Bike oils are constantly churning the bottles, the names and the associated claims.   Independent VOA analysis isn't keeping up with the churn, it lags behind helplessly.

The fact O'Reilly is showcasing Lucas motorcycle oil products scares the hummy out of me -- that is some sorry sorry oil once you look at the VOA and UOA data on BITOG (way way puny like a SM SN car oil).

Who has a ZDDP content listing for the various API grades?   I know the SF-SJ are obsolete grades, but some data as to ZDDP content back then must still exist (although when you list them all up through SJ you get to go as low as 1,000 ppm because SJ was when the lowering began)


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Now, how far do you want to lower our SuzukiSavage Recommended ZDDP level ???

Pick now, before we go through all these new bottles and new API claims because some of them are going to be a lot less than 1,200 ppm of ZDDP.  

And conversely, the racing motorcycle stuff might well be higher ....

..... we can hope, anyway        

Well Oldfeller, I am going to have to back you on the Wally world oil isle. I was just at Walmart with the wife and mosied over to the auto dept. Sure as heck not one bottle or jug of motorcycle oil of any brand to be had! Although a buddy of mine 1/2 hr from me in a bigger town says they have a few left in his Walmart. Maybe it is a seasonal thing? The Walmarts up here in Maine seem to change the oil isle around as often as Mobil reformulates their oil. So if one were to go to shop for appropriate oil for the Savage (around here anyway) you would have 3 choices: 1)Rotella T, 2)Rotella T6, or 3) Go to an auto parts store.

Speaking of auto parts stores, was this a backdoor endorsement for Castrol??  

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/05/12 at 10:29:09:

Im lazy, I  know, Im not reading this super carefully, but so far, what Im getting is,, Rotella T, white jug, is the oil for me,