SuzukiSavage.com - were Trump supporters duped?

raydawg

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #30 - 03/20/18 at 14:18:47

verslagen1 wrote on 03/20/18 at 14:09:39:

Quote:

According to a July 2012 MIT Technology Review article, when you installed the app, "it said it would grab information about my friends: their birth dates, locations, and 'likes.' "

Yep, Obama completely different. Roll Eyes

The thing is...... is this is nothing new, and will only get more sophisticated.
I shoulda known that little girl hawking cookies, was more than just, cookies Grin

Its ironic that all of this energy to get Trump, is revealing itself, in the process.
That is why, on another thread, we can thank Hillary too, for all of this revelations coming to a head, er, and not the #MeToo type....

Bill and Monica already covered that Grin

But the duplicity and dirty dealings in DC and the media!

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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WebsterMark

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #31 - 03/20/18 at 14:22:07

According to OpenSecrets.org, in 2016 congressional election; the NRA donated $5,900,000 to Republicans and $106,000 to Democrats. Of that $106,000, $98,000 went to one man; Collin Peterson out of Minnesota. Took about 5 seconds to find out he's run as a 2nd Amendment supporter since he began his political career.

So again, the NRA (like the vast majority of corporations and non-profits) donate money to candidates whom will support their position, not to change their position. That's a critical difference.

Not that bribery doesn't occur, of course it does. It's actually a somewhat regular obstacle I face in my job.

But let's not turn this into an NRA thing.

Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say? Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles?

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T And T Garage

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #32 - 03/20/18 at 14:34:37

WebsterMark wrote on 03/20/18 at 14:22:07:

According to OpenSecrets.org, in 2016 congressional election; the NRA donated $5,900,000 to Republicans and $106,000 to Democrats. Of that $106,000, $98,000 went to one man; Collin Peterson out of Minnesota. Took about 5 seconds to find out he's run as a 2nd Amendment supporter since he began his political career.

So again, the NRA (like the vast majority of corporations and non-profits) donate money to candidates whom will support their position, not to change their position. That's a critical difference.

Not that bribery doesn't occur, of course it does. It's actually a somewhat regular obstacle I face in my job.

But let's not turn this into an NRA thing.

I'm not, you are.

Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say?

Because they are not a person. They do not get a voice in an election.

Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles?

No. Because by giving a massive amount of money to a campaign, it unfairly tilts the scale in favor of the corporation. Again, your Suzuki analogy is a bit of a strawman. What if this company was in the oil business? What if they gave millions to both dems and repubs and suggested that they ease up on drilling restrictions?

Get my point?

Further, you haven't addressed my point. Why NOT get corporations out of politics?

If you look at the campaigns of Bernie and other progressives - or even the non-progressive dem that won in PA - big money wasn't part of their campaign. Individual donations of under $300. It goes to show that people are sick and tired of corporate politicians on both sides.

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WebsterMark

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #33 - 03/20/18 at 15:04:12

Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say?

Because they are not a person. They do not get a voice in an election.

I think they should. They are as instrumental in our society as any individual.

Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles?

No. Because by giving a massive amount of money to a campaign, it unfairly tilts the scale in favor of the corporation.
The corporation has massive amounts of money BECAUSE you and I gave it to them. We have voice our approval.

Again, your Suzuki analogy is a bit of a strawman. What if this company was in the oil business? What if they gave millions to both dems and repubs and suggested that they ease up on drilling restrictions?

If the people decided easing up on drilling restrictions were not what they wanted, they'd be voted out. Voters ultimately have a choice.

Get my point?

Further, you haven't addressed my point. Why NOT get corporations out of politics?

If you look at the campaigns of Bernie and other progressives - or even the non-progressive dem that won in PA - big money wasn't part of their campaign. Individual donations of under $300. It goes to show that people are sick and tired of corporate politicians on both sides.

Here's one big reason to be careful with reducing lobbyist and campaign donations. what happens they is you must rely on an independent news media to fairly present both sides of an issue. Lobbyist and donations is a significant counter weight to a partisan press.

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WebsterMark

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #34 - 03/20/18 at 15:10:44

Let's imagine there were no lobbyist, no corporate donations, no PAC's etc... the only source of candidate funding is individual donations capped at $100 or something like that.

Now imagine the issue of fracking first comes up.

How do I decide if fracking is good public policy? Where does the information come from I would have access to?

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MnSpring

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #35 - 03/20/18 at 16:49:20

T And T Garage wrote on 03/20/18 at 12:07:55:

"... if hillary was indeed that unlikeable, why then did she get nearly 3 million more votes than our president?..."

That would depend on,
How many of those
were Legal CITIZENS,
who Could Vote, Legally.

(After a POTUS inferred to them,
that they COULD vote
with NO FEAR, of being Deported)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #36 - 03/20/18 at 17:24:21

T And T Garage wrote on Yesterday at 20:07:55:
"... if hillary was indeed that unlikeable, why then did she get nearly 3 million more votes than our president?..."

Just assuming those were legal votes, the question I'm forced to try to understand how democrats are perpetually and incessantly elected in places that are shitholes. Makes me question the voters...
I guess what I'm saying is
Sure, Hillary MIGHT have gotten those votes, but were they cast by the same kinda people who have been electing people who have driven their states or cities in huge holes?
And then I'm forced to remember
the woman who was running the DNC, and her book, and what she said about traveling the Country
And she NEVER SAW SUPPORT FOR HILLARY.
Donna Brazile

Former interim Chairwoman of the DNC Donna Brazile rocked the political world after she dropped a bombshell revealing the underbelly of the DNC, exposing Hillary’s dirty tricks to secure the nomination.

Brazile blasted Hillary over her obvious health problems and said she wanted to replace the Dem nominee with Biden after Clinton fainted on 9/11 in New York.

She even mocked Hillary Clinton’s campaign slogan ‘Stronger Together’, claiming the DNC was full of tension and division based on race, gender and age.

Article Continues Below

virtually no support for Hillary.

But the Russians…

Excerpt via WaPo:

As she traveled the country, Brazile writes, she detected an alarming lack of enthusiasm for Clinton. On black radio stations, few people defended the nominee. In Hispanic neighborhoods, the only Clinton signs she saw were at the campaign field offices.

But at headquarters in New York, the mood was one of “self-satisfaction and inevitability,” and Brazile’s early reports of trouble were dismissed with “a condescending tone.”

The fake news media worked around the clock to make it look like Donald Trump had no support from minority communities when it was Hillary Clinton who was lacking their support.

Donald Trump’s rallies were larger than life. Stadiums were overflowing with patriotic Americans. Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians, young, old all came out to support Trump.

In contrast, Hillary’s rallies were low energy and lacking people. Fake news media often zoomed in to make it look like Hillary had a packed house when in reality barely any people showed up to her rallies.

And we’re supposed to believe Hillary Clinton lost the presidential election because of the Russians?

One question that Hillary cannot answer is how did the Russians manage to hack only the electoral college since she supposedly ‘won the popular vote’?

Brazile was concerned enough about Hillary and her health issues to consider trying to get her ousted as the nominee.
Everyone else who saw it
Was a Conspiracy Theorist!

Note

Excerpt via WaPo:
Excerpt via WaPo:

Yeah, from them..

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: were Trump supporters duped? Reply #37 - 03/20/18 at 18:03:58 Jog, I will hazard a guess that a sage of this forum shares, wegot the president we deserve, which makes one wonder just how bad Hillary musta been Yeah, I get it, she is yesterday news, just like John Edwards babes....
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: were Trump supporters duped? Reply #38 - 03/20/18 at 18:10:21 We got the most pro America president I can remember. Got some warts, maybe a few malignant ones, but I would vote for him again. AAAARGH! Just remembered that Budget! Dammitt..
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T And T Garage

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #39 - 03/20/18 at 18:31:13

WebsterMark wrote on 03/20/18 at 15:04:12:

Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say?

Because they are not a person. They do not get a voice in an election.

I think they should. They are as instrumental in our society as any individual.

Really? How has that worked out so far?

Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles?

No. Because by giving a massive amount of money to a campaign, it unfairly tilts the scale in favor of the corporation.
The corporation has massive amounts of money BECAUSE you and I gave it to them. We have voice our approval.

LOL - ok web. If you don't see the flaw in your logic, then you should keep giving your money to all the big box stores and never shop at a mom and pop ever again.

Again, your Suzuki analogy is a bit of a strawman. What if this company was in the oil business? What if they gave millions to both dems and repubs and suggested that they ease up on drilling restrictions?

If the people decided easing up on drilling restrictions were not what they wanted, they'd be voted out. Voters ultimately have a choice.

Yes, they would be. Do you think it's OK that mineral rights in Bear Ears and The Grand Staircase have been given away with no regard to anyone but the companies that lobbied for them?

Get my point?

Further, you haven't addressed my point. Why NOT get corporations out of politics?

If you look at the campaigns of Bernie and other progressives - or even the non-progressive dem that won in PA - big money wasn't part of their campaign. Individual donations of under $300. It goes to show that people are sick and tired of corporate politicians on both sides.

Here's one big reason to be careful with reducing lobbyist and campaign donations. what happens they is you must rely on an independent news media to fairly present both sides of an issue. Lobbyist and donations is a significant counter weight to a partisan press.

Oh, like fox or msnbc? Sorry web, that makes zero sense. If anything, it takes away from the press/media - you see, that's where the corporations spend their money. Advertising, airtime, mass marketing. If you restrict that, then no one corporation or candidate has the advantage.

If I donate to a campaign, I do it because I believe in the candidate, not because an ad told me to.

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T And T Garage

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #40 - 03/20/18 at 18:38:38

WebsterMark wrote on 03/20/18 at 15:10:44:

Let's imagine there were no lobbyist, no corporate donations, no PAC's etc... the only source of candidate funding is individual donations capped at $100 or something like that.

Now imagine the issue of fracking first comes up.

How do I decide if fracking is good public policy? Where does the information come from I would have access to?

Isn't that kind of a silly question? There's polling. There is (believe it or not) non-partisan news reporting out there. There's a variety of ways to educate yourself.

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T And T Garage

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #41 - 03/20/18 at 18:41:49

raydawg wrote on 03/20/18 at 18:03:58:

Jog, I will hazard a guess that a sage of this forum shares, wegot the president we deserve, which makes one wonder just how bad Hillary musta been Grin

Um, ray, how many times do you have to be told? I disliked hillary only slightly less than our current president. She was the worst possible democratic candidate.

We indeed got the president we deserved. I would have said the same had she gotten elected.

Yeah, I get it, she is yesterday news, just like John Edwards babes.... Kiss

Huh?

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raydawg

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #42 - 03/20/18 at 19:26:01

My last time TRYING to explain.

The very media going full bore after tweeter, and all of the party hierarchy, donors, lobbyist, etc, chose to ignore all of this stuff we are now hearing about like, "yeah, she was a terrible choice, ran a terrible campaign, etc.....after the fact.

In effect, THEY elected Trump, not the deplorables.

I can explain it no more, sorry, you wrap an understanding around that observation by me, or not....
Won't change a thing, no how Grin

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T And T Garage

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Re: were Trump supporters duped?
Reply #43 - 03/20/18 at 19:46:23

raydawg wrote on 03/20/18 at 19:26:01:

My last time TRYING to explain.

The very media going full bore after tweeter, and all of the party hierarchy, donors, lobbyist, etc, chose to ignore all of this stuff we are now hearing about like, "yeah, she was a terrible choice, ran a terrible campaign, etc.....after the fact.

You're confusing the media with public opinion. Her popularity among democratic voters was DEAD LAST! This is what money does. It buys airtime, it buys votes, it buys elections.

In effect, THEY elected Trump, not the deplorables.

I can explain it no more, sorry, you wrap an understanding around that observation by me, or not....
Won't change a thing, no how Grin

Maybe stop making idiotic references like "john edwards' baby", huh? In English ray... plain, inside reference free English.

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Trippah Serious Thumper Offline I ride, therefore I am. Posts: 2517 central Mass Gender:	Re: were Trump supporters duped? Reply #44 - 03/20/18 at 20:05:29 Trump is pro trump, and nothing else. Please lets stay on this sorry old planet .
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