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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> were Trump supporters duped? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1521565536 Message started by FormerlyLostArtist on 03/20/18 at 10:05:35 |
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Title: were Trump supporters duped? Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 03/20/18 at 10:05:35 Millions of Trump voters ( I know not everyone cause some are special ;) ) but enough were deceived by Trump's campaign and Robert Mercer's super PAC (that's a whole other level to this, hopefully the FEC throws the book at them) . Hidden camera shows Cambridge Analytica pitching deceptive tactics https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/hidden-camera-shows-cambridge-analytica-pitching-tricky-tactics-n857936 and NO Obama didn't do this too, not exactly. the details are important, Obama's methods were more open and transparent Michael Simon [ch10004] @mbsimon [ch128075] I ran the Obama 2008 data-driven microtargeting team. How dare you! We didn’t steal private Facebook profile data from voters under false pretenses. OFA voluntarily solicited opinions of hundreds of thousands of voters. We didn’t commit theft to do our groundbreaking work. … (https://twitter.com/CamAnalytica/status/975081782625226752) 11:45 PM - Mar 17, 2018 now there are a whole lot of things popping up and I'm not well versed in everything so excuse me if I'm not 100% accurate on everything, so yes there is room for Obama's campaign to be worse than what I currently think it is, but none of that excuses Trump's campaign from his actions here. two wrongs don't make a right, Trump supporters need to quit trying to do that |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 10:42:56 775E435C54435D487D5E4245704345584245310 wrote:
You beat me to the punch on this one Lost. Nicely done! |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 10:50:33 Nobody was persuaded to vote for Trump based on Facebook ads and data. How ridiculous. He was getting trashed and labeled dangerous on the network news every single night for a year and still won. Let it go losers. You got your a$$ kick because you put up a lying witch of a woman as likable as a case of the Clap. 2nd choice was a crazy socialist aging hippie. Trump appealed to a bunch of your former constituents you treated like dog $hit. I'm convinced you will eventually win your war to destroy America but Trump won the last battle and delayed the enviable. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 11:04:41 I didn't want to have to type that. Thanks for grabbing them by the neck and pointing out reality for them, Again. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by verslagen1 on 03/20/18 at 11:43:06 I really don't like facebook anyway. I crop the window so those ads don't appear at all. Then they went to displaying anything posted in by my friends and their friends it was a disaster. I'm mainly on there to see what my family is up to anyway. online surveys... never. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:07:55 744641505746516E425148230 wrote:
Hmm.. so if hillary was indeed that unlikeable, why then did she get nearly 3 million more votes than our president? Hey web - how's our president's approval rating these days? Yeah... he's a "winner" alright! |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 12:12:49 She got 3 million more votes. Like I said, you'll win the war, but you lost this battle. The battle wasn't fought with majority votes, it was fought in a manner that gives a disproportionate voice to rural areas. Basically the electoral college allows the land a vote. And you silly fixation on approval ratings is meaningless. Big deal. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:18:00 2B382F2E313C3A38336C5D0 wrote:
Oh vers... You think it's only ads? Do you have any idea how much data is passed through your clicks outside facebook and then put through algorithms for facebook?? You think that by ignoring the ads that you don't get targeted? Ha!! Take it from someone who knows - the tactics used by Cambridge Analytica are done all the time - although they did it illegally. Once you log on to facebook, google, amazon, yahoo or any other big online entity, it's begun. I've reviewed some google analytics that'd make your head spin! |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by verslagen1 on 03/20/18 at 12:23:37 yawn |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by Serowbot on 03/20/18 at 12:23:39 073532232435221D31223B500 wrote:
Corporations are people... dirt are people... So it's true,... Republicans are dumb as dirt... ;D |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:26:25 0B393E2F28392E113D2E375C0 wrote:
Yeah, right, it's not a big deal... it only has to do with public opinion... pshaw! LOL Seriously though web, what "war" are you talking about? Why is it that you think things like single payer health insurance (or medicare for all), free basic college tuition, a higher minimum wage, restrictions on some firearms, equal rights for all, social security, medicare, investment in infrastructure, getting corporate money out of politics - to mention only a few... is going to destroy the Country? I'm asking honestly. How? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 12:27:01 https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/facebook-data-scandal-trump-election-obama-2012/ |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:27:31 283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote:
LOL - yep... and that's why it is the way it is... you yawn and have no idea. No worries - I'm sure you're fine..... |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:30:16 60736B76736575120 wrote:
OK ray - do you want to know why Cambridge Analytica was in the wrong, or will you just blindly believe an editorial? Let me know. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 12:31:43 342A252429342F32400 wrote:
Yeah, right, it's not a big deal... it only has to do with public opinion... pshaw! LOL Seriously though web, what "war" are you talking about? Why is it that you think things like single payer health insurance (or medicare for all), free basic college tuition, a higher minimum wage, restrictions on some firearms, equal rights for all, social security, medicare, investment in infrastructure, getting corporate money out of politics - to mention only a few... is going to destroy the Country? I'm asking honestly. How? [/quote] If I thought for one freaking second, you'd stick through this conversation to the end without being your typical di@khead self, I'd engage. But I'm home this week, not traveling and you caught me in a good mood. Okay, (imagine the voice of the guy in Saw) "Okay, let's play a game" Pick one. Why is it that you think things like single payer health insurance (or medicare for all), free basic college tuition, a higher minimum wage, restrictions on some firearms, equal rights for all, social security, medicare, investment in infrastructure, getting corporate money out of politics |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:42:53 0D3F38292E3F28173B28315A0 wrote:
Too easy web - the single largest threat to our democracy is corporate money in politics. Corporations are not people and unlimited bribery of our politicians is one of the main reasons we are where we are today. This goes for ALL, not just one side of the aisle. For every koch there's a soro. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 12:43:57 223C33323F223924560 wrote:
OK ray - do you want to know why Cambridge Analytica was in the wrong, or will you just blindly believe an editorial? Let me know.[/quote] You haven't, or refuse, to see what happens when you pull a Harry Reid, or circumvent the legislative process, opting for EO's. Yeah, Russia used technology for their own concerns...... Imagine that ::) Like I said on a different thread, a broken watch is NOT right, twice a day, it is broken, period. Go and justify, whatever, then complain foul. You are blind, or extremely stupid, to not see the hypocrisy and duplicity. staring you straight in the face...... BTW, you how many times you post Yawn..... Yet, fault Versy...... |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 12:52:05 5F4C54494C5A4A2D0 wrote:
OK ray - do you want to know why Cambridge Analytica was in the wrong, or will you just blindly believe an editorial? Let me know.[/quote] You haven't, or refuse, to see what happens when you pull a Harry Reid, or circumvent the legislative process, opting for EO's. Huh? This is about Cambridge Analytica - what's a "harry reid"? Yeah, Russia used technology for their own concerns...... Imagine that ::) Like I said on a different thread, a broken watch is NOT right, twice a day, it is broken, period. Go and justify, whatever, then complain foul. You are blind, or extremely stupid, to not see the hypocrisy and duplicity. staring you straight in the face...... Seriously ray, what are you talking about? My post is about the tactics used by CA, that's it. You posted an editorial that is simply someone's opinion on what happened and they make incorrect comparisons. Do you understand that? Are you mad that I might be right? BTW, you how many times you post Yawn..... Yet, fault Versy...... Yep, and what did others post to my yawn? [/quote] |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 12:55:02 Too easy web - the single largest threat to our democracy is corporate money in politics. Corporations are not people and unlimited bribery of our politicians is one of the main reasons we are where we are today. This goes for ALL, not just one side of the aisle. For every koch there's a soro. I would not say it's the single largest threat. It's a threat, but not as large as a partisan news media. Corporate money: Say a push is made to ban motorcycles because they are dangerous. Suzuki USA donates money to candidates who state their belief is this is not an area the US government should be involved in. Suzuki obviously stands to benefit financially if by their support, enough Congressmen are elected or retain office. but also Suzuki is in the business of motorcycles because that is what they want to do, it is their passion. The board of directors are appointed and voted on by shareholders of Suzuki because they feel those people will protect their interest. So why shouldn't Suzuki be permitted to donate to the campaigns of Congressmen who have the same viewpoint? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 13:06:17 I will give it one shot, knowing it will be a waste of time, but, nevertheless.... Harry Reid used the nuclear option when he wanted his way, to get what he wanted, at the moment. His party called him brave, a leader, bold. When it was used later, to the contrary, well, they found fault in the actions of others, crying foul. When technology was used to favor a particular candidate, that was wise. When other use and extend that technology, let’s call foul, again. You let the Genie out of the bottle, when she will grant your wish, but call her a beetch, when she grants another their wish.... Well, see, it was a waste of time :-* |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 13:15:40 556760717667704F637069020 wrote:
Unwittingly, you proved my point and show exactly why this is bad. The only motivation of anyone in your example is profit. How is that good for anyone but a corporation or anyone outside that corporation? I don't know about you, but it's obvious to me - if my representative gets $100K from Suzuki and only $100 from me, who do you think he or she is really going to listen to? Suppose that Suzuki plant is dumping waste oil in my backyard? What then? The only way a politician can be truly representative of his or her constituents, is if they are unbiased to corporate influence. Now, if they (Suzuki in this case) want to influence their employees to vote in a particular way, that's all good. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 13:20:23 485B435E5B4D5D3A0 wrote:
You shouldn't assume. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 13:22:34 I simply state that a corporation should not be allowed to legally bribe our politicians. One step at a time. In my example, how is Suzuki bribing politicians? A bribe implies the politician changed their vote only because of the money donated. If I were a Congressmen and this issue came up, Suzuki's money doesn't change my vote, it allows me to an opportunity to vote. Same with the NRA. The NRA doesn't give money to liberals, they give money to conservatives. If money were all it took, they'd just give whatever amount it took to change liberal votes. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 13:42:23 273936373A273C21530 wrote:
You shouldn't assume. [/quote] The bar will always be pushed further, that is the nature of the beast. When you relax your due diligence, or scruples, to beat up a Trump, expect the favor to be returned, when it’s your Bernie. I think only FOX and Politico have comment sections anymore, it’s astounding to see folks so blind to their own rage, yet taunting others for the same behavior. Both groups lemmings, running toward the same cliff, only for different reasons.....useful fools on patrol. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 13:47:36 The NRA may be incorporated, but it's Vastly Different from the regulated corporations in the manufacturing, mining, energy, pharmaceutical industries. The NRA exists because people support them. Not for the caps or magazines, but as a lobbying arm. American citizens see them as representing and defending their interests. Politicians Know that the number of members is a Fraction of the number of people who feel the same way as the members. And, of course, the above post is spot on. If money equaled the votes of the electeds, then money would go to opponents of the NRA and the People. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 13:49:14 https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/facebook-data-scandal-trump-election-obama-2012/ See it put logically. Caution Wrap the head with duct tape first. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 13:57:11 6D5F58494E5F48775B48513A0 wrote:
See above - they do. In local and state elections over the last decade, winning is directly tied to spending: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/11/does-more-campaign-money-actually-buy-more-votes-investigation/355154/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_in_the_United_States We're veering off the point. Your Suzuki analogy is a bit of a strawman. Why not stick with something that's concrete? Real donors like the koch brothers and soros spend millions of dollars on state and local campaigns. The results are there. But I'll put it to you another way. Why NOT get corporations out of politics? What would the harm be if all donations were capped at $1000 per single donor? Better yet, what about tax payer funded campaigns? Politically, this country has been in the toilet since the 80's thanks to Buckley v. Valeo in the late 70's. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 14:02:58 4E5D45585D4B5B3C0 wrote:
Back to the point I made before - by posting an editorial that basically states "Obama did the same thing" is massively deceptive. If you can't see that, then there really is no hope for dialog. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by verslagen1 on 03/20/18 at 14:09:39 Quote:
Yep, Obama completely different. ::) |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 14:17:48 465542435C5157555E01300 wrote:
Yes vers, it was. Thanks for confirming. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 14:18:47 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
The thing is...... is this is nothing new, and will only get more sophisticated. I shoulda known that little girl hawking cookies, was more than just, cookies ;D Its ironic that all of this energy to get Trump, is revealing itself, in the process. That is why, on another thread, we can thank Hillary too, for all of this revelations coming to a head, er, and not the #MeToo type.... Bill and Monica already covered that ;D But the duplicity and dirty dealings in DC and the media! |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 14:22:07 According to OpenSecrets.org, in 2016 congressional election; the NRA donated $5,900,000 to Republicans and $106,000 to Democrats. Of that $106,000, $98,000 went to one man; Collin Peterson out of Minnesota. Took about 5 seconds to find out he's run as a 2nd Amendment supporter since he began his political career. So again, the NRA (like the vast majority of corporations and non-profits) donate money to candidates whom will support their position, not to change their position. That's a critical difference. Not that bribery doesn't occur, of course it does. It's actually a somewhat regular obstacle I face in my job. But let's not turn this into an NRA thing. Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say? Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 14:34:37 615354454253447B57445D360 wrote:
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 15:04:12 Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say? Because they are not a person. They do not get a voice in an election. I think they should. They are as instrumental in our society as any individual. Ural is a motorcycle manufacture who sells a few bikes here and there. Suzuki on the other hand sells tens of thousands. Based on that alone, isn't it accurate to say the citizenry has 'spoken' and voiced their support for Suzuki motorcycles? No. Because by giving a massive amount of money to a campaign, it unfairly tilts the scale in favor of the corporation. The corporation has massive amounts of money BECAUSE you and I gave it to them. We have voice our approval. Again, your Suzuki analogy is a bit of a strawman. What if this company was in the oil business? What if they gave millions to both dems and repubs and suggested that they ease up on drilling restrictions? If the people decided easing up on drilling restrictions were not what they wanted, they'd be voted out. Voters ultimately have a choice. Get my point? Further, you haven't addressed my point. Why NOT get corporations out of politics? If you look at the campaigns of Bernie and other progressives - or even the non-progressive dem that won in PA - big money wasn't part of their campaign. Individual donations of under $300. It goes to show that people are sick and tired of corporate politicians on both sides. Here's one big reason to be careful with reducing lobbyist and campaign donations. what happens they is you must rely on an independent news media to fairly present both sides of an issue. Lobbyist and donations is a significant counter weight to a partisan press. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 15:10:44 Let's imagine there were no lobbyist, no corporate donations, no PAC's etc... the only source of candidate funding is individual donations capped at $100 or something like that. Now imagine the issue of fracking first comes up. How do I decide if fracking is good public policy? Where does the information come from I would have access to? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by MnSpring on 03/20/18 at 16:49:20 786669686578637E0C0 wrote:
That would depend on, How many of those were Legal CITIZENS, who Could Vote, Legally. (After a POTUS inferred to them, that they COULD vote with NO FEAR, of being Deported) |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 17:24:21 T And T Garage wrote on Yesterday at 20:07:55: "... if hillary was indeed that unlikeable, why then did she get nearly 3 million more votes than our president?..." Just assuming those were legal votes, the question I'm forced to try to understand how democrats are perpetually and incessantly elected in places that are shitholes. Makes me question the voters... I guess what I'm saying is Sure, Hillary MIGHT have gotten those votes, but were they cast by the same kinda people who have been electing people who have driven their states or cities in huge holes? And then I'm forced to remember the woman who was running the DNC, and her book, and what she said about traveling the Country And she NEVER SAW SUPPORT FOR HILLARY. Donna Brazile Former interim Chairwoman of the DNC Donna Brazile rocked the political world after she dropped a bombshell revealing the underbelly of the DNC, exposing Hillary’s dirty tricks to secure the nomination. Brazile blasted Hillary over her obvious health problems and said she wanted to replace the Dem nominee with Biden after Clinton fainted on 9/11 in New York. She even mocked Hillary Clinton’s campaign slogan ‘Stronger Together’, claiming the DNC was full of tension and division based on race, gender and age. Article Continues Below virtually no support for Hillary. But the Russians… Excerpt via WaPo: As she traveled the country, Brazile writes, she detected an alarming lack of enthusiasm for Clinton. On black radio stations, few people defended the nominee. In Hispanic neighborhoods, the only Clinton signs she saw were at the campaign field offices. But at headquarters in New York, the mood was one of “self-satisfaction and inevitability,” and Brazile’s early reports of trouble were dismissed with “a condescending tone.” The fake news media worked around the clock to make it look like Donald Trump had no support from minority communities when it was Hillary Clinton who was lacking their support. Donald Trump’s rallies were larger than life. Stadiums were overflowing with patriotic Americans. Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians, young, old all came out to support Trump. In contrast, Hillary’s rallies were low energy and lacking people. Fake news media often zoomed in to make it look like Hillary had a packed house when in reality barely any people showed up to her rallies. And we’re supposed to believe Hillary Clinton lost the presidential election because of the Russians? One question that Hillary cannot answer is how did the Russians manage to hack only the electoral college since she supposedly ‘won the popular vote’? Brazile was concerned enough about Hillary and her health issues to consider trying to get her ousted as the nominee. Everyone else who saw it Was a Conspiracy Theorist! Note Excerpt via WaPo: Excerpt via WaPo: Yeah, from them.. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 18:03:58 Jog, I will hazard a guess that a sage of this forum shares, wegot the president we deserve, which makes one wonder just how bad Hillary musta been ;D Yeah, I get it, she is yesterday news, just like John Edwards babes.... :-* |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 18:10:21 We got the most pro America president I can remember. Got some warts, maybe a few malignant ones, but I would vote for him again. AAAARGH! Just remembered that Budget! Dammitt.. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 18:31:13 1D2F28393E2F38072B38214A0 wrote:
Oh, like fox or msnbc? Sorry web, that makes zero sense. If anything, it takes away from the press/media - you see, that's where the corporations spend their money. Advertising, airtime, mass marketing. If you restrict that, then no one corporation or candidate has the advantage. If I donate to a campaign, I do it because I believe in the candidate, not because an ad told me to. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 18:38:38 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
Isn't that kind of a silly question? There's polling. There is (believe it or not) non-partisan news reporting out there. There's a variety of ways to educate yourself. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 18:41:49 33203825203626410 wrote:
Huh? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 19:26:01 My last time TRYING to explain. The very media going full bore after tweeter, and all of the party hierarchy, donors, lobbyist, etc, chose to ignore all of this stuff we are now hearing about like, "yeah, she was a terrible choice, ran a terrible campaign, etc.....after the fact. In effect, THEY elected Trump, not the deplorables. I can explain it no more, sorry, you wrap an understanding around that observation by me, or not.... Won't change a thing, no how ;D |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/20/18 at 19:46:23 35263E23263020470 wrote:
Maybe stop making idiotic references like "john edwards' baby", huh? In English ray... plain, inside reference free English. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by Trippah on 03/20/18 at 20:05:29 Trump is pro trump, and nothing else. Please lets stay on this sorry old planet . :( :( :( |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 06:09:46 Stick with the Suzuki analogy. Why shouldn't a corporation who's profits come directly from consumer choices, not have a say? Because they are not a person. They do not get a voice in an election. I think they should. They are as instrumental in our society as any individual. Really? How has that worked out so far? How has that worked out? Pretty darn good so far. Presumably we both work for corporations whom it is to our benefit they succeed. The three things that connects us are a place to live, computers and motorcycles; only one of which is a necessity. You and I live better than the vast majority of the world. Out of 7.5 billion, this is a guess, but we live better than 5.5 billion, maybe 6.5 billion. Not sure. We live in a nation that is, at least these use to be the numbers I assume they're still close, 3% of the population but 25% of the world's GDP. So it's worked out pretty well. This last presidential election cycle, a 3rd party candidate (Trump) was forced onto the Republican party and won the nomination. On the Democratic side, if they hadn't changed the rules, their own outside candidate, (Sanders) would likely had been the candidate against their preferred candidate, Hilary. No. Because by giving a massive amount of money to a campaign, it unfairly tilts the scale in favor of the corporation. The corporation has massive amounts of money BECAUSE you and I gave it to them. We have voice our approval. LOL - ok web. If you don't see the flaw in your logic, then you should keep giving your money to all the big box stores and never shop at a mom and pop ever again. Not true. Mom and Pop stores win business because they offer what big box stores can't. The point is I CHOOSE which to buy from and when I choose Menards over the local hardware store, that sends a message. Money in politics is NOT our biggest threat to democracy. It's partisan news outlets. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 06:24:36 0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:
Technically, any media outlet that is partisan is NOT news. Plus, if you take out the PAC money, the dark money, etc., there goes all that ad revenue that's spent on fox and msnbc and the like. No ad revenue, no more beholden to a party. Think about it - back in the 60's there was no partisan news. There was no unlimited spending in politics. Coincidence? I don't think so. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 08:40:52 As much as I enjoy shooting TT down, I can't. I agree with a lot of that. As to corporations being considered a person, I'll believe it when one is executed for murder or jailed for a crime. The stockholders are people and I would be surprised to discover that they voted against the interests of the corporate entity that they are invested in. The only voice corporations should have is are the voices of each stockholder and employee. Just my opinion.. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 08:56:29 How has that worked out? Pretty darn good so far. Really? So you're cool with the direction of the Country in the last 15 years or so? Ha! Why not? What’s gone so drastically wrong? Presumably we both work for corporations whom it is to our benefit they succeed. Speak for yourself. How is it not to your benefit for your company to succeed? This last presidential election cycle, a 3rd party candidate (Trump) was forced onto the Republican party and won the nomination. LOL - "3rd party"?? No, sorry, he was a reality TV star who's ego is roughly the size of Montana. But that's a point for another thread. You can laugh out loud all you want and use that as an excuse to dodge, but Trump was essentially a 3rd party candidate. The Republican Party bosses did not want him. They were forced to accept him because Republican voters rejected their preferred candidates, mostly Jeb Bush. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 09:03:24 Not true. Mom and Pop stores win business because they offer what big box stores can't. The point is I CHOOSE which to buy from and when I choose Menards over the local hardware store, that sends a message. So let me get this straight, if the local store has a pipe fitting you need for $10 and the big box has it for $8, you'd go to the big box over the local? Corporations have items that are loss leaders and buy in huge volume - that's what gets people in. That's how they put the mom and pops out of business. Yes, that does send a message. You don’t really mean what you’re saying nor do you follow that philosophy. You may think you do and on occasional all of us pay more from a Mom and Pop for various reasons, but when shopping for commodity items or technical items that you have a comfortable level of knowledge with, price becomes the most important component. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 09:51:58 556760717667704F637069020 wrote:
No doubt. "People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand." Suffice it to say, money in politics is one of the most destructive and disruptive forces in the country today. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 09:58:44 his security briefings told him to not congratulate putin - what did he do? He congratulated him... As did Obama... Which raised no eyebrows. NOT doing so would have been Unpresidential.. And counterproductive. If Obama didn't Do as he was Told And It was LEAKED, wouldn't we reasonably believe he was surrounded by people he couldn't trust? If they would LEAK that, Would they Advise poorly? Chew on that. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:04:37 See my comment above. His only qualification was that he was an outsider. Not sure about you, but I want someone with experience beyond being a reality TV star. That is demonstratively not true. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:10:54 No doubt. "People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand." Trump is delivering the leadership so far that I and many others find acceptable. He told the Paris Climate Agreement people to take a hike. He told the Arabs we'll move our embassy to Jerusalem. Don't like it; too bad. He stood up to race baiters and said the obvious which is violence occurs on both sides of the race issue. He said more gun laws aren't the only solution. He said illegal immigration is harming this country. He said immigration from countries with little or no passport control and a history of violence is not right for this nation. and many, many other examples. Now, you may not like any of that. You may disagree with it. It might make you sick to your stomach. But there's no way you can say Trump is not showing leadership. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 10:12:02 724047565140576844574E250 wrote:
No, it doesn't - not all the time. The reason I bring up pipe fittings is that I recently had to make a small plumbing fix at my house. In my experience, I know that Ace is going to be more expensive, but the people who work there are helpful and knowledgeable and it's local. The guy that owns/operates it, lives 2 miles away from me. Home Depot, Lowes or Menards can't give me that kind of service (although Menards sometimes comes close). But I would rather pay a little more for a random fix here or there than give that money to a big box. I'm not saying I never use the big box. You have to for larger projects. But when guys like bernie marcus start blathering on about how great our president is - guys like me will seek out alternatives even more frequently. It's worth repeating - corporations have no business being in politics. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 10:13:50 487A7D6C6B7A6D527E6D741F0 wrote:
How is it not true? Again, this is not the thread for this, but our president has zero political experience. He's never served the public at all. My statement is true. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 10:20:41 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
Oh, there's a definite way I can say that. But that's not the point of this thread. If you want to debate the merits of our president, start a new thread. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by raydawg on 03/21/18 at 10:40:23 our president has zero political experience. He's never served the public at all. And that reasoning sounds like its paid and promoted by the very ones who want no opposition and change...... yeah, that experience (politician) is really working out great ::) You say I don't do whats necessary to start the change, yet you fall into passing the current power brokers mantra as fact.... How cums dat? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:40:52 786669686578637E0C0 wrote:
No, it doesn't - not all the time. The reason I bring up pipe fittings is that I recently had to make a small plumbing fix at my house. In my experience, I know that Ace is going to be more expensive, but the people who work there are helpful and knowledgeable and it's local. The guy that owns/operates it, lives 2 miles away from me. Home Depot, Lowes or Menards can't give me that kind of service (although Menards sometimes comes close). But I would rather pay a little more for a random fix here or there than give that money to a big box. I'm not saying I never use the big box. You have to for larger projects. But when guys like bernie marcus start blathering on about how great our president is - guys like me will seek out alternatives even more frequently. [/quote] You said the exact same thing I just said. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:44:01 3D232C2D203D263B490 wrote:
How is it not true? Again, this is not the thread for this, but our president has zero political experience. He's never served the public at all. My statement is true. [/quote] Trimp was a reality TV star because he was already Donald Trump, not the other way around. The Clintons, Al Sharpton and the rest of the media elites were seeking his company and approval long before he went on TV. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:46:13 Trump is delivering the leadership so far that I and many others find acceptable. You are without question in the minority on that. No one knows that until the next election and I would not venture a guess at this point what the country thinks. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 10:48:36 6E707F7E736E75681A0 wrote:
Oh, there's a definite way I can say that. But that's not the point of this thread. If you want to debate the merits of our president, start a new thread. [/quote] And you proved my point by offering meaningless objections. You don't like the leadership, I do. End of story. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 11:11:26 0A383F2E29382F103C2F365D0 wrote:
Oh, there's a definite way I can say that. But that's not the point of this thread. If you want to debate the merits of our president, start a new thread. [/quote] And you proved my point by offering meaningless objections. You don't like the leadership, I do. End of story. [/quote] No, you had no point. I offered my comments and said, again, that this is not for this thread. You want to debate the merits of our president, start another thread. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 11:15:50 No. I think we're done on the money in politics. I don't think its as big a problem as it's made out to be and in fact, I say it can be beneficial. That's not to say there aren't abuses. You think it's the single biggest threat to Democracy. I don't see how those to extremes can move towards the middle so we're done. With that topic anyway. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 11:16:11 He stood up to race baiters and said the obvious which is violence occurs on both sides of the race issue. No, he said there were good people on both sides. There are no good nazis/ne-cons. That people want to keep elements of what have been our daily lives, things that reflect our nation's history, doesn't make us racist, Nazis or neocons. Tearing history down isn't gonna lift people out of poverty or create a utopia. The perpetually angry will just fix on a new target and once That evil is vanquished, they will be in the Exact same socio-economic situation and looking for a new target. Jobs, opportunities, THAT'S what will soothe the masses. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 11:16:29 536166777061764965766F040 wrote:
Gallup polling. Unbiased, trusted for decades, has our president at 40% approval - thereby enforcing my comment. But again, not for this thread. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 11:21:33 102225343322350A26352C470 wrote:
Apathy kills and ignorance is bliss. Take it for what it's worth. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by MnSpring on 03/21/18 at 11:43:10 746A656469746F72000 wrote:
Would that by like saying: (In Affect) 'Gun Banners, do Not want to Ban Guns' :-* |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 14:13:51 Gallup polling. Unbiased, trusted for decades, has our president at 40% approval - thereby enforcing my comment. But again, not for this thread. I don't give a crap about the other 60%. I'll just say to them; you're welcomed for me and others giving you President Trump and be on my way. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 14:14:58 No, I don't think - I know. In this country today, three men own more of the wealth than 50% of the entire country. Let that sink in..... Assuming that's true (which I doubt) what does that have to do with me? |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 03/21/18 at 15:45:28 0B393E2F28392E113D2E375C0 wrote:
you're welcoming them?? for what? Trump hasn't proved he's done ANYTHING yet, his tax cut is a tax payer funded giveaway until it makes up $1.5 TRILLION in spending with this magical growth creating tax revenue to PAY US BACK and so far it has fallen WAY short of that. I'm glad for all those people who got bonuses, but people got bonuses under Obama too, but they didn't kiss Obama's a$$ to give him credit for creating a stable economy allowing them to get bonuses, they shouldn't be thanking Trump for the tax cuts, they should be thanking US the tax payers for the handout. so far all Trump's done is stay out of war... |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 03/21/18 at 15:47:51 744641505746516E425148230 wrote:
it means trickle down doesn't work, not like how it was promised to |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 15:56:28 794B4C5D5A4B5C634F5C452E0 wrote:
LOL - that's like welcoming a case of herpes to someone you kiss! C'mon... too easy webb! |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 15:58:03 5E6C6B7A7D6C7B44687B62090 wrote:
It has to do with who really has the power in this country. If money buys votes, then it just stands to reason that whoever controls the wealth, controls the country. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 16:01:03 Trump is President because people voted against those who have the power, so who really has the power ultimately?... Let that sink in. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by Serowbot on 03/21/18 at 16:23:22 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Dirt... Dirt has the power. Dirt votes. Hillary had 3 million more votes,... but dirt beat those votes. Republicans apparently get a 3 million vote head start in elections because they live in middle of nowhere. ::). |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by T And T Garage on 03/21/18 at 16:24:16 437176676071665975667F140 wrote:
The kochs, soros, gates, bezos, buffett, the waltons (not the TV family). The kochs on their own will spend over $400 million on the midterms. To use my phrase again... let that sink in. Given the terrible choices (although I would have voted for Kasich over hillary) - the country made a mistake in thinking that the president we have now would be any good. Sorry, he's not. But hey, without mistakes, there is no learning. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/21/18 at 17:00:50 3C2A3D20382D203B4F0 wrote:
Dirt... Dirt has the power. Dirt votes. Hillary had 3 million more votes,... but dirt beat those votes. Republicans apparently get a 3 million vote head start in elections because they live in middle of nowhere. ::). [/quote] That's partially true. Land matters. The land spoke and said those 3 million inner city liberals do not equal millions of acres of land. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 17:53:45 So politics really Is dirty. |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by WebsterMark on 03/22/18 at 05:16:42 You Trump colluted with the Russian fanatics should keep Twain's quote in mind. “It’s not what we don’t know that gets us in trouble. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.” |
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Title: Re: were Trump supporters duped? Post by MnSpring on 03/22/18 at 11:36:37 063433222534231C30233A510 wrote:
Dirt... Dirt has the power. Dirt votes. Hillary had 3 million more votes,... but dirt beat those votes. Republicans apparently get a 3 million vote head start in elections because they live in middle of nowhere. ::). [/quote] That's partially true. Land matters. The land spoke and said those 3 million inner city liberals do not equal millions of acres of land.[/quote] That's good. I would just add. The Inner City Limousine Liberals, the Free Loaders, on some sort of Welfare, the voting Multiple Times, (for FREE Beer), AND, Illegals, who are NOT Citizens. |
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