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oil change=overfill (Read 970 times)
mpescatori
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #15 - 01/14/13 at 14:15:12
 
Royblueboy, I would BY ALL MEANS drain some oil until you "see the light"  Cool in the oil level window.

Put the bike upright with something big and thick under the side stand so that she stands as vertical as possible.

14mm or 17mm oil plug on the left, real close to where side stand is attached... loosen until oil trickles out, collect it for whatever use you may have, util you see at least 1/16th inch light in the oil window.

Why am I telling you this ? Because I once overfilled (don't know how much, but definitely overfilled) and not only was the engine extremely sluggish, I popped the main block gaskets and the cylinder bottom gasket and oil wept all over the engine  Undecided, shoes, trousers, socks... Lips Sealed feet   Shocked... rear tire  Embarrassed... and giggled its way right into my mechanic's wallet !!!  Angry

You see, unlike automobile engines which have many cylinders, some pistons  going up, others down, so that the air capacity within the engine block is essentially the same all the time, the Savage is a BIG single, and when that piston goes down it compresses the air in the sump; if you overfill, there's too much oil and too little space for that air to compress, so it will force its way wherever is the way of least resistance...
...generally, with the weakest gasket... Tongue

So drain some of that oil.

Use it for... top-ups, fish bait, salad dressing, deep fry, whatever, but DRAIN IT !!!

Maurizio, smarter but poorer, from Rome, Italy.  Cool
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #16 - 01/14/13 at 15:51:47
 
I always fill to the top line when bike is vertical.
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #17 - 01/15/13 at 08:13:44
 
Some folks fill it till they can see some oil in the window when its on the stand. Some use a 2 X 4 to get it Almost vertical, then fill it up. Seems to be a pretty good amount that it can hold above the Factory Full Line. Id rather be a little over than under, but, as Maurizio points out, there IS a "Too Much". That costs less to fix than the "Too Little" line, tho.
When I was gonna be gone all day & run it pretty hard, Id carry a Weed Eater oil bottle so I could top off if need be,.
A 1/2"X3/4" x 4" piece of wood with a slot cut at the proper angle makes opening the oil fill while hot possible w/o pliers.

How about this

Get it filled up, so its to the Full line when the bikes standing up on level ground, lean it down onto a 2X4 & see where it is in the window.
Maybe put a mark on it? Then youll be able to get it filled up to where its sposed to be w/o having to hold it up & IF its not far from the full line & youre comfortable with it, maybe juice it on up. I Would, before I did that, look at the oil window while its running & immediately after shutdown to see is theres any foaming at all before I added beyond stock levels, then Id watch it afterward. Air bubbles in oil isnt a good thing,,
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #18 - 01/15/13 at 18:43:02
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/14/13 at 07:21:04:

With the bike on the side stand, the oil should be just visible at the bottom of the oil check window.  


I'm curious how much this is off for Ryca owners? Obviously the rake angle is changed, it seems like it might be easier to over-fill.

I had the side cover off to install a Verslavy tensioner, so it was very close to completely drained. I filled approx. 2.25 quarts and the oil is at the top of the oil check window when the bike is upright (not on stand). It's not visible when on the side stand.

Think I should add more?
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #19 - 01/15/13 at 19:26:07
 

There is an individualized HOT TEST specified that takes in all bike modifications (RYCA or whatever) and it also takes in the thermal expansion characteristics of your particular oil.  

It is the definitive test you do to decide on the appropriate fill level for YOUR BIKE with YOUR MODS using YOUR OIL.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1312152619/0
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #20 - 01/15/13 at 21:24:31
 
Thanks for all of the response. the oil does not show when on the side stand, it fills the window when upright. I have decided to leave it alone.Thanks again for the advice .
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #21 - 01/16/13 at 15:57:16
 
jvdb wrote on 01/15/13 at 18:43:02:
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/14/13 at 07:21:04:

With the bike on the side stand, the oil should be just visible at the bottom of the oil check window.  


I'm curious how much this is off for Ryca owners? Obviously the rake angle is changed, it seems like it might be easier to over-fill.

I had the side cover off to install a Verslavy tensioner, so it was very close to completely drained. I filled approx. 2.25 quarts and the oil is at the top of the oil check window when the bike is upright (not on stand). It's not visible when on the side stand.

Think I should add more?




I'm curious how much this is off for Ryca owners? Obviously the rake angle is changed, it seems like it might be easier to over-fill.


Seems to me it would be easy to run it low, because the engines oil requirements havent changed, but with a lower front end, its gonna Look like it has more oil in it than it really does. It would be like checking the oil on a stock bike with it pointed downhill. What happens when we ride down a long hill? Does the engine suffer damage because the oil is down in front? Noperz,, they built it so it could do that, right?
So, kinda hafta stop & ask ourselves, just what IS the Design Dictated, not Engineer spec, but the limit imposed on us by the design of the motor?

WE know that once its running & has as much oil up & outta the sump as it can get & oil is circulating, then its not anywhere near hitting the crank/rod. I think that as long as oil is below that line, its okay. Its Gonna slosh & its Gonna hit once in a while, but if its a steady beating, itll air up the oil & thats the end of it. It cant pump bubbles,,

Someone with a jug off, case on the bench, could do some measuring.
Hafta use some sense. The world aint flat. Take a Ryca, already nose down a bit & start down from a REally REally good mountain road & a guy mite get in big trouble, but some schmuck in West Texas on a bone stock Savage mite be able to safely carry enough more oil to help cool the thing a bit in that heat.


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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #22 - 01/16/13 at 19:42:50
 
No one has ever come up w/ ill effects from running the oil level on the side stand. All this coulda woulda stuff doesn't hold oil.
But if you're afraid to do what you have been told is not only ok, but better, than do it like the book says ! No one is twisting your leg to make you run more oil.

I run tween the marks on the sidestand for 2 reasons, fear and common sense !! Grin
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #23 - 01/17/13 at 15:59:31
 
Oldfeller, with Rotella T6, what quantity of oil is correct?

If we knew the proper quantity of oil, at the next oil change we could see where it shows up on the sight gauge, and just use that as a reference from then on.  We could note what it shows when cold, and when hot, for both on the sidestand and on the vertical.
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #24 - 01/17/13 at 16:32:35
 
raydawg wrote on 01/14/13 at 12:47:27:
Gee....I wonder if she is looking for a dipstick?

OOOOO- I promised myself I would be good.... but it's so very very hard when someone throws a straight line directly in your path.....but I will be good... I will I really will. Roll Eyes
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #25 - 01/17/13 at 17:21:48
 
Gyrobob wrote on 01/17/13 at 15:59:31:
Oldfeller, with Rotella T6, what quantity of oil is correct?

If we knew the proper quantity of oil, at the next oil change we could see where it shows up on the sight gauge, and just use that as a reference from then on.  We could note what it shows when cold, and when hot, for both on the sidestand and on the vertical.



Good question -- answer is nobody knows what the "correct amount" of oil is because we have different owners manuals saying different things.  None of them are consistent and none of them consider oil expansion per se.

You have an oil shelf right over the top of the window and you want the oil to stay out of the rotating crankshaft, so the hot test requirement on your expanded oil is to show some air at the top of the window.

Beyond that, don't sweat it -- every time you brake going downhill you slop a bunch of oil up against your crank.   So it isn't fatal, just not something you want to do all the time.

Frothing      

Some oils froth, you need to quit using that oil if you find your oil does like to froth.   Froth is air laced oil and it doesn't lube like solid oil does.


In short -- do the hot test
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #26 - 01/18/13 at 07:34:37
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/17/13 at 17:21:48:
Gyrobob wrote on 01/17/13 at 15:59:31:
Oldfeller, with Rotella T6, what quantity of oil is correct?

If we knew the proper quantity of oil, at the next oil change we could see where it shows up on the sight gauge, and just use that as a reference from then on.  We could note what it shows when cold, and when hot, for both on the sidestand and on the vertical.



Good question -- answer is nobody knows what the "correct amount" of oil is because we have different owners manuals saying different things.  None of them are consistent and none of them consider oil expansion per se.

You have an oil shelf right over the top of the window and you want the oil to stay out of the rotating crankshaft, so the hot test requirement on your expanded oil is to show some air at the top of the window.

Beyond that, don't sweat it -- every time you brake going downhill you slop a bunch of oil up against your crank.   So it isn't fatal, just not something you want to do all the time.

Frothing      

Some oils froth, you need to quit using that oil if you find your oil does like to froth.   Froth is air laced oil and it doesn't lube like solid oil does.


In short -- do the hot test


I understand about the shelf just above the window.  That would imply that if you see an oil level halfway up the window on a vertical bike with with the motor running, you are fine.  The oil level is below the shelf while the motor is running and, therefore, not getting all frothed up.

The motor is canted forward several degrees on a RYCA conversion, in effect, raising the shelf.  
-- Would you want to have the oil level show a bit lower on a vertical, motor-running, RYCA bike?  
-- Is it possible that if you have an oil level showing in these conditions, say,.. up at the top of the window, that the rotating stuff might be in the oil "pond" up at the front of the crankcase?
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #27 - 01/18/13 at 07:46:16
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/14/13 at 07:21:04:

Verslagen and Routy are telling you straight.

There are two ways to check your oil, the Suzuki Standard (owner's manual) way and the List way.

With the bike on the side stand, the oil should be just visible at the bottom of the oil check window.  

Using this method gives you an extra half quart of reserve oil, and in a motorcycle that is notorious for using a bit of oil (when the bikes get older, anyway) this is important to you as the owner's manual method leaves very little reserve oil in the sump and puts you too close to "oil death" due to normal consumption for my tastes.

Search for "list oil check method" or "oil level wars" or "hot test" and you can read all about this oil level research in the original threads.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1312152619



Wow.. wish I had read this sooner... like 9 months ago. Yall are d'bomb
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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #28 - 06/18/13 at 05:18:14
 
$50 to the guy who can devise a way to enlarge the oil check window so that we can etch or mark notches or reading marks on the window with the bike on the sidestand...


BMW OIL CHECK WINDOW, bike on center stand


Expecting to read the oil level in such a small oil window... so low relative to the ground... without a center stand...
...means nobody at Suzuki Engineering actually did a long term test ride and checked the oil... Roll Eyes

My former 1982 MotoGuzzi had an oil dipstick, as did my old 1971 Ducati Scrambler. I investigated a way to create an oil dipstick for the Savage, but there's too much twisty metal involved. See pic.



See where the oil filler cap is ? See the twisty metal makes an odd bend to make the oil flow down ?
I would have to drill a small hole through THAT, but before the dipstick reaches the required depth it would clash against the primary gears ...
...so we need to find a way for the dipstick to reach the very bottom of the crankcase without rubbing against the primary gear...

Something like this




Why can't we convert THIS ...                                                       into THIS ?  Cool ...                                 or even THIS ?  Wink



So, says I, $50 to whomever can devise a way to read the oil level without having to do a "Tonto says train coming..."

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Re: oil change=overfill
Reply #29 - 06/18/13 at 06:13:09
 

I'll take that $50 --- you just use the list oil check method and you can see if you have enough oil by just glancing down as you approach the bike.

No roadrunner (or tonto) neck bending plus you get the extra oil capacity to keep your bike from running out of oil so durn quickly as the Suzuki method can lead you to do when your bike gets older and starts sipping oil between changes.
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