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Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam chain (Read 538 times)
Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #30 - 03/02/07 at 05:42:46
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Is that rainbow effect on your sprocket/gear from heat?


Sure the rainbow is from heat, but in this case, I'm sure it's from manufacturing where they heat treat the gear.

If that rainbow came from internal temp. I'd have been on the side of the road for sure.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #31 - 03/02/07 at 05:51:44
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Greg
that's excactly my observation. Can't make that kind of pictures unfortunately.
The "measurement " on the old chain and sprocked was done by eyeballing and it seems to be smaller.

BTW noticed you signature picture, don't clean off the oilstains in between the pistonrings.


Like that varnish?  Go ahead and explain why to everyone.

But do you think that I can clean off the scrapes in the cylinder bore?  The jug doesn't look too good.

I'll start a new topic soon...

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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #32 - 03/02/07 at 05:57:22
 
Ed L. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Looks like as the chain stretches the pitch changes and it rides farther out on the teeth of the gears. I can't see how it would be designed with that space under the chain even if it is for oil there is no need for a gap that wide.


Got a point there, Ed.  That's what I was thinking.  That's definitely not wear on the gear...since nothing is touching down there.

When I get a new chain, I'm gonna measure the "pin to pin" diameter of the chain wrapped on the gear and see how much difference there is.  

It would be cool if there was a reliable way to measure the chain installed.
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Kropatchek
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #33 - 03/02/07 at 08:23:33
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Like that varnish?  Go ahead and explain why to everyone.

But do you think that I can clean off the scrapes in the cylinder bore?  The jug doesn't look too good.

I'll start a new topic soon...



The varnish helps the ring(s) to seal-off the piston.

If you can see honing marks in a spiral-like patern the jug is oke.

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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #34 - 03/02/07 at 08:40:39
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
The varnish helps the ring(s) to seal-off the piston.


That's what I wanted you to say Tongue

Quote:
If you can see honing marks in a spiral-like patern the jug is oke.



That's a problem.  No real honing marks and I have some up and down scrapes.  

I'm gonna try to get my lens in there...better than this Tongue

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Kropatchek
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #35 - 03/02/07 at 08:43:24
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
That's what I wanted you to say Tongue



That's a problem.  No real honing marks and I have some up and down scrapes.  

I'm gonna try to get my lens in there...better than this Tongue

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/CylinderBore_2090.jpg


Now it's not our secret anymore!

Up/down scrapes were made by something; the rings perhaps
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #36 - 03/02/07 at 08:48:09
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Now it's not our secret anymore!

Up/down scrapes were made by something; the rings perhaps


Yeah.  I need to measure the end gap on the rings and the cylinder bore.

Going out to the garage Roll Eyes

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #37 - 03/03/07 at 11:38:27
 
The chain can't ride to the bottom of the gear by design.
This because of manufacturing tolerance in making the gear.  If it did, it would stretch/break the chain immediately.  Instead, there should be a close fit at somepoint like with gear to gear.  What we have to be concerned with here is (darn, forgot the term) sloppy fit.  The chain shouldn't float (advance, lag) too much on the gear durring operation.  In general, the chain is going to lag on the driving cog and advance on the driven cog (from the chains point of view).  And really, the only point of concern for maintaining timing between cam and crank is the length between the last tooth of engagement on the cam and the 1st tooth on the crank.  The rest don't do any real work.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #38 - 03/03/07 at 12:28:12
 
I looked more closely at the black coating inside the case. It's not on the inside of the clutch cover.That's just cast aluminum & looks brand new. Looking thru the oil return holes into the main sump, there's no black coating on the bottom there. Since I don't generally slip the clutch I don't see how clutch parts could be making the side of the engine inside the clutch cover as black as coal. It doesn't wipe off, Berrymans doesn't cut it off. It doesn't even discolor a white rag after an initial wipe with Berrymans. I am starting to think it's a factory coating.Anyone been in an 05 S40?
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #39 - 03/03/07 at 12:52:24
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
The chain can't ride to the bottom of the gear by design.
This because of manufacturing tolerance in making the gear.  If it did, it would stretch/break the chain immediately.  Instead, there should be a close fit at somepoint like with gear to gear.  What we have to be concerned with here is (darn, forgot the term) sloppy fit.  The chain shouldn't float (advance, lag) too much on the gear durring operation.  In general, the chain is going to lag on the driving cog and advance on the driven cog (from the chains point of view).  And really, the only point of concern for maintaining timing between cam and crank is the length between the last tooth of engagement on the cam and the 1st tooth on the crank.  The rest don't do any real work.


And Kropatchek...your opinion please?
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #40 - 03/03/07 at 12:58:38
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
I looked more closely at the black coating inside the case. It's not on the inside of the clutch cover.That's just cast aluminum & looks brand new. Looking thru the oil return holes into the main sump, there's no black coating on the bottom there. Since I don't generally slip the clutch I don't see how clutch parts could be making the side of the engine inside the clutch cover as black as coal. It doesn't wipe off, Berrymans doesn't cut it off. It doesn't even discolor a white rag after an initial wipe with Berrymans. I am starting to think it's a factory coating.Anyone been in an 05 S40?


Maybe your motor got burnt Shocked

Just a joke.  My guess is that you have nothing wrong with regard to the color.  Do you have a digital camera?

Since the price on the Savage hasn't changed in years, I doubt that Suzuki is doing anything new in there.  That would mean more engineering and research, and the cost would have to go somewhere.  Maybe the mold was dirty after a couple million Savage40s  Smiley
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #41 - 03/03/07 at 15:36:56
 
Greg, thanks for the interest, but since the stuff doesn't budge even with Berrymans on it, I am just not gonna sweat it. If it was burned oil, I would have siezed the engine. Also, the coverage is so even that it couldn't be a heat issue. It would look different across that large an area. I'm just gonna stick it together & go shopping for parts. I will just replace the chain & the 2 gaskets. It's not making scary noises. It just runs & makes me grin. Hopefully, that will continue for several more years.

Anyone with an idea as to who has the best price on a chain,, I am open to suggestions.;
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #42 - 03/03/07 at 19:02:40
 
I just ordered the guides, as my chain was spec'd new at 127mm. My tensioner was 20mm out and that was the last tooth on the ratchet. As soon as they come in and I stick it back together I'll let you know how much the tensioner is out.

My guess is that the guides don't where much but that they aren't the same shape as they are new. I'll post pics when they come in.

Oh, and Greg, It's all your fault. My Block is sitting out of the frame and in peices. I am not doing a piston or full tear down, but it was far enough apart that i decided to do some take it out and clean and mod a few things. Thanks for all your help.
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1996 Mirage paint, seat lift, 2 #4 washers, 155 main, 52.5 pilot. Removed pillon, belt guard, rear blinker mod, moved battery box. K&N cone, Chain conversion 17/43 (in process). Cam tensioner mod.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #43 - 03/03/07 at 19:41:14
 
What all are ya doing to it Tbalam?
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #44 - 03/03/07 at 20:00:39
 
I am doing some wiring rework. Looking at fabbing some forward controls, doing the chain Mod, plug fix, stiffer clutch springs, relocating the battery box, removing the air box, Front brakes, more carb tuning. and most importantly cleaning the heck out of it. Also putting in a new breather, and some other minor things, along with a cam chain. I want to take off the old front running lights and do something there, I hate them.

I just repainted it this fall, with a color shifting paint. I reshaped the seat and upholstered it. Took off the fender brackets and the sissy bar, as well as changed and moved the rear turn signals. Already did the seatlift and with the new shape I can ride for hours.

No real complicated stuff, just time consuming. It'll take time with being in school and all. But it all boils down to tinkering, i love it when it starts after i have done something to it, and i can squeeze a few more horses out of it.
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1996 Mirage paint, seat lift, 2 #4 washers, 155 main, 52.5 pilot. Removed pillon, belt guard, rear blinker mod, moved battery box. K&N cone, Chain conversion 17/43 (in process). Cam tensioner mod.
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