SuzukiSavage.com - Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam chain

Savage_Greg

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #15 - 02/28/07 at 14:21:16

justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

Okay, I went & rubbed on it some more, with a small magnet, too. Nothing came off,might as well be powder coated.. looks like it is. I can't imagine it being dirt. I ride the crap outta this thing, but, I change oil like clockwork, or a bit early, never late.I've Always used motorcycle oil. Last oil change I went with Yamalube 20/40 because it was handy & I was tired of the oil leak where the clutch actuator passes thru the case. It was leaking the 10/40 & that stopped it. I will replace that O-ring & go back to 10-40. I've used Suzuki 10/40 except for the last oil change.

ALSO< anyone know who has the best price on a cam chain? Is it good stuff or is it made of elastic? Are there different quality chains out there?

Would this be a place to experiment with subjecting a part to extreme cold?

If the bike is used, then I tend to think like Ed L. Maybe a previous owner used a graphite type oil. Getting into small porous parts of the metal is what it's supposed to do.

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justin_o_guy Ex Member	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #16 - 02/28/07 at 17:02:20 I bought it new.
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steveh

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #17 - 02/28/07 at 18:34:48

Here are some observations from the cam chain job I just did:
I bought an official Suzuki chain from Ron Ayers. I think it was $87. My old guides looked fine, so I reused them. My tensioner piston showed 18 mm before the chain job and about 8mm after replacing the chain. Of course I should add that I am working on a basket case, basically, and I don't know the history of anything.

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Kropatchek

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #18 - 03/01/07 at 04:00:00

steveh wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

Here are some observations from the cam chain job I just did:
I bought an official Suzuki chain from Ron Ayers. I think it was $87. My old guides looked fine, so I reused them. My tensioner piston showed 18 mm before the chain job and about 8mm after replacing the chain. Of course I should add that I am working on a basket case, basically, and I don't know the history of anything.

Bet your old chain was not stretched to the rejection measurement of the SSM.

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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks

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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #19 - 03/01/07 at 04:10:04 justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02: I bought it new. Well. That's not my first wrong idea
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Ed L. Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline "We All go a Little Crazy Sometimes" Norman Bates Posts: 2808 Sunny Florida Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #20 - 03/01/07 at 08:10:26 Maybe the black film is from clutch wear, can't see how the entire engine got so hot that it burned the oil. if that happened I would think it would of seized up solid. Did the oil look bad when you did the oil changes or was it just regular dirty crankcase oil?
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #21 - 03/01/07 at 09:20:25 If I was really worried about it, I'd do a double oil and filter change.
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justin_o_guy Ex Member	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #22 - 03/01/07 at 10:04:00 It's always just looked like used oil to me. I am just gonna hit it with some Berrymans & see if it comes off. If not, I spose it will just stay.
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Kropatchek

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #23 - 03/02/07 at 03:16:11

To get back on topic "Camchain".

The engine ( 43000 KM) in my '93 frame used too much oil, and several seeping leaks at the casing, that will be rebuild later. My spare engine with 12700 KM was removed from a '92 frame after testrun offcourse!

To install the kit to "extend the life of the camchain" ,
I opened up the engine to discover the tensioner was 19 mm out and the piston and housing already bent a little. ( 12700KM = <8000 miles).

The engine was opened before, and curious as I am, decided to remove the headcover to have a look at the condition of the top-end (infamous plug, etc.)

Surprice, the plug had been fitted with NO sealant and NOT leaking.

As the camsprocket and chain were at eyelevel I noticed someting peculiar, meaning, I did not see before.

The chain is riding on top of the teeth of the sprocket and not touching the bottom in-between the teeth. I saw the light shining through
My immidiate thought was: This is not good and I removed the chain, guide, camshaft to investigate further.

At home I have and old chain and sprocket. Put the chain on the sprocket and looked up to the light. My first impression: there's less light shining trough.

Could this be the place where the wear is??

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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #24 - 03/02/07 at 04:46:00

Yep.

I don't know if it is the same amount that you saw, but I noticed the same thing when I was getting the OD measure on the gears.

It is more obvious on the Drive gear than the Driven gear, but the chain is definitely not snug in the pitch of the gear teeth.

You may need to open these in a separate window to see them closer

PS - Ya know what? I just realized that the stretch probably gave me an incorrect measurement on the chain diameter.

Do you suppose that a measurement of the chain diameter with chain INSTALLED on the gear could be calculated so that we could measure it without removing it?

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #25 - 03/02/07 at 05:05:19 I wonder if possibly that design is to allow better lubrication/cooling or if it's just bad.
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Savage_Greg

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #26 - 03/02/07 at 05:21:26

Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:

I wonder if possibly that design is to allow better lubrication/cooling or if it's just bad.

Yeah, it's an oil clearance or a squish zone. Don't we wish.

I really don't know because I don't have a new one to reference, but I noticed the gap when I tried to wrap it around by hand. I wasn't really paying attention to that when I removed it...

Look at this. I wish the background was white, but here's a closeup...

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #27 - 03/02/07 at 05:27:30 Is that rainbow effect on your sprocket/gear from heat?
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Kropatchek Serious Thumper Offline Why more than 1 cylinder? Posts: 1457 Alphen a/d Rijn Netherlands Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #28 - 03/02/07 at 05:28:04 Greg that's excactly my observation. Can't make that kind of pictures unfortunately. The "measurement " on the old chain and sprocked was done by eyeballing and it seems to be smaller. BTW noticed you signature picture, don't clean off the oilstains in between the pistonrings.
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Ed L. Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline "We All go a Little Crazy Sometimes" Norman Bates Posts: 2808 Sunny Florida Gender:	Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam Reply #29 - 03/02/07 at 05:35:07 Looks like as the chain stretches the pitch changes and it rides farther out on the teeth of the gears. I can't see how it would be designed with that space under the chain even if it is for oil there is no need for a gap that wide.
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