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Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam chain (Read 536 times)
justin_o_guy
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Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam chain
02/27/07 at 06:30:21
 
It's not looking dangerous,but it's time to get the stuff together & replace the chain. The measurement using the depth gauge on the digital calipers was .738 from the shoulder on the plunger to the face of the housing. This measurement was taken after I had released the plunger & shoved it back & then manually pulled it out tight. Looking at the gap between the vertical runs of the chain, it's getting pretty close. I'll guess about 1/2". Time to do it I spose.

Anyway, here's what I want to do. I would like to stick it back together while I get all the stuff together to do the job. Is it too worn to ride safely if there is .738 of the plunger poking out? It's not crooked like the pic in the forum, but I did see it thingy a bit when I tightened it by hand, just a degree or 2, nothing alarming.
Also, if it's not too worn to ride, how can i re-use the gasket? It didn't tear much. It didn't tear across the sealing surface. What bugs me is the area that goes around the oil passages. If I clean that with Berrymans then the Stickum I got at the shop ought to handle it?? I don't want to waste a $15.00 gasket just so I can ride for a week or so while parts come in.( if it leaks a bit, that's no biggeee, BUT, if it leaks back into the sump instead of oiling the top end, That's an issue for me,,)

Next question. With all the parts replacing going on, has anyone figured out just what all has to be replaced? Can an engine with 14,000 miles on it be okay with just the chain? Do I Have to replace the guides?

I guess I better go ahead & get a gasket for the top end.

When I saw the bolts for the side cover were different lengths & some had rubber backed washers I grabbed a piece of cardboard & poked holes in it with a screwdriver in the shape of the cover & poked them in the holes so I wouldn't get them mixed up.Keepin it simple, cuz, well,, you know....  Wink Thanks folks..
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #1 - 02/27/07 at 08:39:21
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
It's not looking dangerous,but it's time to get the stuff together & replace the chain. The measurement using the depth gauge on the digital calipers was .738 from the shoulder on the plunger to the face of the housing. This measurement was taken after I had released the plunger & shoved it back & then manually pulled it out tight. Looking at the gap between the vertical runs of the chain, it's getting pretty close. I'll guess about 1/2". Time to do it I spose.

Anyway, here's what I want to do. I would like to stick it back together while I get all the stuff together to do the job. Is it too worn to ride safely if there is .738 of the plunger poking out? It's not crooked like the pic in the forum, but I did see it thingy a bit when I tightened it by hand, just a degree or 2, nothing alarming.
Also, if it's not too worn to ride, how can i re-use the gasket? It didn't tear much. It didn't tear across the sealing surface. What bugs me is the area that goes around the oil passages. If I clean that with Berrymans then the Stickum I got at the shop ought to handle it?? I don't want to waste a $15.00 gasket just so I can ride for a week or so while parts come in.( if it leaks a bit, that's no biggeee, BUT, if it leaks back into the sump instead of oiling the top end, That's an issue for me,,)

Next question. With all the parts replacing going on, has anyone figured out just what all has to be replaced? Can an engine with 14,000 miles on it be okay with just the chain? Do I Have to replace the guides?

I guess I better go ahead & get a gasket for the top end.

When I saw the bolts for the side cover were different lengths & some had rubber backed washers I grabbed a piece of cardboard & poked holes in it with a screwdriver in the shape of the cover & poked them in the holes so I wouldn't get them mixed up.Keepin it simple, cuz, well,, you know....  Wink Thanks folks..


I don't see why you can't reuse the gasket for a temporary fix, myself.

I have both guides out of mine, and even though I don't have new ones for comparison, I'm not changing them.  It's up to you, but I don't see enough wear on them to bother.  They look pretty good to me.  I think it all involves cam chain stretch.

Good idea with the holes in the cardboard.  There are two places that seal oil passages in the cover and so there is a gasket.  The rest you can figure out fairly easily because even though they are different lengths, they all thread in the same amount.

That reminds me...and I'm sort of guilty of it, too...but there was a topic in here once about "lugging" the engine in higher gears, and running the idle speed too low.  The author suggested that doing this would stretch the cam chain...and I'm thinking that might be really correct, too.

Hindsight is a "pregnant dog".
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #2 - 02/27/07 at 08:57:25
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
I don't see why you can't reuse the gasket for a temporary fix, myself.


 There are two places that seal oil passages in the cover and so there is a gasket.  The rest you can figure out fairly easily because even though they are different lengths, they all thread in the same amount.



Agreed, replace the chain and use your good judgement on the rear guide.

Nitpicking again:
There's 3 washers with rubber inserts.

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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #3 - 02/27/07 at 09:12:50
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Nitpicking again:
There's 3 washers with rubber inserts.


There is?  Aw, man.  Now I gotta run out to the garage again.  Geez...

Is this it?

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Kropatchek
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #4 - 02/27/07 at 09:30:26
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
There is?  Aw, man.  Now I gotta run out to the garage again.  Geez...

Is this it?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/CaseRightSide_1494.jpg


Not at all.
It's the picture in the SSM, page 3-59 Engine, third picture from the top.
It shows the RH side of the engine and 3 "A" 's for the location of the rubber-lined washers.
Your picture shows the 2 locating dowels and an arrow with Q-mark to a place where there's no special washer.
Good quality picture though.
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #5 - 02/27/07 at 09:39:02
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Not at all.
It's the picture in the SSM, page 3-59 Engine, third picture from the top.
It shows the RH side of the engine and 3 "A" 's for the location of the rubber-lined washers.
Your picture shows the 2 locating dowels and an arrow with Q-mark to a place where there's no special washer.
Good quality picture though.


Geez.  I sit corrected.  I wasn't even close.  Damm.  How about I go back to bed and then start over?

Hey, at least, when I'm wrong, I'm 100% wrong Tongue

You are right (again)...shift all of them 1 hole.

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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #6 - 02/27/07 at 09:40:35
 
Greg,

  I sure appreciate your posts & pics. The current pic that shows the pilot jet will keep me from having to tear into the carb before I buy a pilot. There are 2 designs & now I know which is on the inside,, coolnisss.,

Okay, I will stick it back together & round up parts.,  

I am looking at a Used cam Chain, how much stretch is acceptable? I don't want to have to replace it in just a few months. I can't remember the measurement or how many pins are to be measured.. I think I will write that down next time I see it..

I am surely guilty of many forms of abuse on this machine, but lugging the engine has never been an issue with me. I don't like being unable to accelerate with  just the twist of the throttle, so I keep it in a gear that allows me to do that most of the time. On a rare, in town moment, on a straight stretch with little or no traffic I would allow myself to just cruise at the speed limit. The book says 5th gear & 30 mph is okay, but it doesn't feel right so I don't..
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #7 - 02/27/07 at 09:47:49
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Greg,

  I sure appreciate your posts & pics. The current pic that shows the pilot jet will keep me from having to tear into the carb before I buy a pilot. There are 2 designs & now I know which is on the inside,, coolnisss.,

Okay, I will stick it back together & round up parts.,  

I am looking at a Used cam Chain, how much stretch is acceptable? I don't want to have to replace it in just a few months. I can't remember the measurement or how many pins are to be measured.. I think I will write that down next time I see it..

I am surely guilty of many forms of abuse on this machine, but lugging the engine has never been an issue with me. I don't like being unable to accelerate with  just the twist of the throttle, so I keep it in a gear that allows me to do that most of the time. On a rare, in town moment, on a straight stretch with little or no traffic I would allow myself to just cruise at the speed limit. The book says 5th gear & 30 mph is okay, but it doesn't feel right so I don't..


Check the other cam chain topic.  I have a photo that shows the SSM specs for the cam chain.

Well, I haven't lugged it at 25 like Hutch says he does, but 30 I've done quite a bit.  The Raask pipe has a really cool shotgun sound to it at that speed, but I guess I'll stop Tongue

BTW - in my signature line there are 2 - 155 mains.  A large and a small.  The 2 sizes are interchangeable.  You just have to be sure to use the brass washer anyway.  I dropped mine from 157.5 back down to 155 last night Grin
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #8 - 02/27/07 at 14:15:37
 
I have seen pics of different engines & some are still silvery shiny on the inside, another is a light tan from the oil. Guys, the inside of mine looks like it's been powder coated black. Like a cast iron skillet with a good & proper seasoning job done on it. I change the oil at 3,000 miles & use motorcycle grade oil. I run it free, not lugging it. Even in town I keep it a gear below what the book says I can get away with. Looks like a heat issue to me. Anyone else have an opinion? I hope it's a different opinion. I don't want it running that hot..
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #9 - 02/27/07 at 18:53:44
 
Sounds like dirt not heat.  You'd have had symptoms of too much heat long before you went inside.  My 2 bits.
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #10 - 02/28/07 at 01:39:45
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
I am looking at a Used cam Chain, how much stretch is acceptable? I don't want to have to replace it in just a few months. I can't remember the measurement or how many pins are to be measured.. I think I will write that down next time I see it..



As mentioned before: forget about the lenght of the chain, get a new one and you will see that the tensioner will be out by less than 18 mm.
Got this from the German forum, they have a lot of experience.

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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #11 - 02/28/07 at 06:15:34
 
I saw an engine that had a graphite oil used in it and the inside of the engine was coated with a black film sort of like you are describing. If you have a magnet handy try rubbing it on the black coating to see if any is pulled off. If some is then the film is from wear on the gears and moving parts. If you bought the bike used it could be the previous owner ran dirty oil in it and the film is from that.
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #12 - 02/28/07 at 06:41:57
 
Some oils develop/retain soot much more than others too.
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #13 - 02/28/07 at 07:38:14
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
As mentioned before: forget about the lenght of the chain, get a new one and you will see that the tensioner will be out by less than 18 mm.
Got this from the German forum, they have a lot of experience.


I've been following these cam chain threads very closely because my '02 has about 22,000 miles and I'm concerned. Can  it really be true that the Savage eats a cam chain in just 25,000 miles? Seems awful fast to me. I mean, I put 10K on it in just over a year. (Although that will begin to slow down as I'm riding the "other" bike more and more.)

Just seems that a cam chain should last a lot longer than that.

(Gotta order a gasket, chain and new guides then I'll tear into it.)

Ken
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #14 - 02/28/07 at 11:39:57
 
Okay, I went & rubbed on it some more, with a small magnet, too. Nothing came off,might as well be powder coated.. looks like it is. I can't imagine it being dirt. I ride the crap outta this thing, but, I change oil like clockwork, or a bit early, never late.I've Always used motorcycle oil. Last oil change I went with Yamalube 20/40 because it was handy & I was tired of the oil leak where the clutch actuator passes thru the case. It was leaking the 10/40 & that stopped it. I will replace that O-ring & go back to 10-40. I've used Suzuki 10/40 except for the last oil change.


ALSO< anyone know who has the best price on a cam chain? Is it good stuff or is it made of elastic? Are there different quality chains out there?

Would this be a place to experiment with subjecting a part to extreme cold?
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