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Cylinder Head Baseline Data (Read 1127 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #75 - 11/27/18 at 22:42:29
 
Buy a motor.
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ohiomoto
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #76 - 11/28/18 at 05:37:02
 
I apologize as my comment seems to be taking this topic in a different direction.   For the sake of keeping DBM's thread on topic, we should probably cease and desist discussing the actual merits of his endeavor.
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Ruttly
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #77 - 11/28/18 at 05:53:38
 
Yeah I was trying to egg him on a bit , I wanna see what he comes up with!
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Dave
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #78 - 11/28/18 at 06:32:47
 
Straying off topic is common in the winter......we are get bored and are easily distracted.
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Ruttly
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #79 - 11/28/18 at 09:45:28
 
My meds don't help any !
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LANCER
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #80 - 11/29/18 at 03:34:43
 
Ruttly wrote on 11/28/18 at 09:45:28:
My meds don't help any !



You are taking the wrong med’s then !
Step it up and you will rest in a foggy bliss.
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Ruttly
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #81 - 11/29/18 at 10:08:20
 
Already there buddy , already there. Grin
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LANCER
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #82 - 11/29/18 at 10:54:52
 
Ruttly wrote on 11/29/18 at 10:08:20:
Already there buddy , already there. Grin


I understand, some fog is a daily norm in my world as well, been there since the mid 90's.  For me chronic pain and med's for it just tend to cancel each other out somewhat; no high, nothing goofy, just a moderate decrease in pain level and some relief.  There is never total pain removal, only some relief.
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batman
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #83 - 12/04/18 at 09:17:36
 
OK, let's get back on track (sort of) . I've been doing a bit of research on four valve heads and thinking about how to increase swirl  so as to increase fuel and air mixing,  to get a more complete burn,  and gain more hp.
     Surprisingly enough our 4 valve head creates no swirl ! The intake valves being open and the piston rising on the compression stroke instead produce a tumbling  action. All is good until the  compression stroke actually starts ( when both valves are closed and the piston is still rising to TDC) at which time there is little to no tumbling or swirl action just when it is most needed.  What can be done?
     At this point I have found only two ways ,both of which involve the addition of swirl. the first rather complicated (and pricey) is a 4 valve custom head with 4 different size valves , a larger and smaller intake and  larger and  smaller exhaust valve.  the larger intake is placed opposite the smaller exhaust valve ,the smaller intake opposite the larger exhaust . This creates a swirl even with cams that have overlap. The second is much less costly , and something I've talked about before.
The Singh groves ,because they are in the squelch area and could induce swirl when needed most, I'm guessing that the small increase in cylinder head displacement would be compensated by the hp increase ,reduction of the squelch height would add to their effectiveness.
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #84 - 12/04/18 at 10:26:58
 
batman wrote on 12/04/18 at 09:17:36:
     Surprisingly enough our 4 valve head creates no swirl !



Are you calling Suzuki a liar? Huh


The Suzuki website states:

ENGINE FEATURES
The 652cc, SOHC, single cylinder, air-cooled, four-stroke engine with TSCC (Twin Swirl Combustion Chambers) cylinder head and high mass crankshaft produces strong low-end power and torque.



https://gsx250.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/tscc-twin-swirl-combustion-chamber/
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #85 - 12/04/18 at 15:22:34
 
IF THE SHOE FITS WEAR IT!   What Suzuki is calling twin swirl (a nice catchy name) is really twin tumble , a not so catchy name.  Swirl (look it up in the dictionary) is a sideways twisting motion ,and that doesn't occur in our motor. It does occur in two valve heads. It does strike me funny that  the picture of the gsx 250 cylinder shows arrows showing the flow as tumbling in the cylinder , yet shows no arrows of it's swirl taking place in the domed sections of the head that is what THEY claim takes place . I think I'm smelling manure.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #86 - 12/04/18 at 16:26:46
 
Swirl (look it up in the dictionary) is a sideways twisting motion

As is evident by looking at the victim's hair.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #87 - 12/05/18 at 12:50:42
 
The unusual head design that Batman discusses is called a "PolyQuad".  It is a patented design by David Vizard and another fellow.  You can view a very interesting and informative article on the PolyQuad at www.motortecmagazine.net.  Mr. Vizard is a wizard, and his books contain tons of pertinent info for the average hotrod enthusiast.  He states that 4-valve heads induce tumble, and 2-valve heads induce swirl.  The article gives a really good explanation of this, and also contains some excellent illustrations of exactly how his PolyQuad design sets up the swirl and tumble combination.  You called it Batz.

I guess it's conceivable that Suzuki incorporated some other feature in the ports or combustion chamber that induces swirl.  If they did, I can't see it.

Seems to me that it would be fairly easy to incorporate a portion of the PolyQuad design into the Savage head.  Install one larger intake valve ( I have found some that will probably work), and unshroud the two intakes in that manner shown on Vizzard's illustrations.  The larger exhaust valve seems difficult at this point.  Short of having Manley, Kibblewhite, or Ferria (sic) manufacture a custom valve, I haven't been able to find any exhaust valves comparable to the LS650 valves (they are much shorter than the intakes).

This "Singh Grove" design is a mystery.  Do you really mean to say "Groove"?  I've viewed some videos of this guy Singh grinding away in throttle bodies.  Is that the same guy?  Does he now have some sort of mod that he does in the quench area on the cylinder head?  Would it be possible to place the groove in the piston instead.  Pistons are a lot cheaper.  If you don't like the results you can put in a new piston.
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #88 - 12/05/18 at 15:03:52
 
Suzuki's intake valves are not oriented to induce swirl !
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batman
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Re: Cylinder Head Baseline Data
Reply #89 - 12/05/18 at 15:51:52
 
MIKE , SOMENDER SINGH grooves are what I was referring to above. They can be used in 2 valve heads where they don't really create swirl (it's already present) ,they are placed in the squish zones on either side of the sparkplug and will help to increase ignition probability. They would do much more in our 4 valve heads as tumble action stops during the compression stroke when the intake valves close ,well over 100 degrees be for TDC. they could effect swirl and ignition probability.
The other grove you mentioned is  THE GADGETMAN GROOVE  used to increase carb /throttle body effectiveness at Idle and lower speeds. I have used this on my stock  CV carb and it delivered a 7.3% increase in mpg in highway riding. (It might do better in the city, but I haven't tested this being 60 miles from the nearest one, and not a frequent flyer.)
 If you were to place a larger intake in the head I would unshroud ONLY that valve to create swirl , also the wall of the head behind this valve is voluted  so the velocity from the rear of the valve is changed to pressure as it moves in the direction of the sparkplug adding to the swirl. 
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« Last Edit: 04/15/19 at 23:46:02 by batman »  

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