Dave,

Here is my "Proportional Grid calculating the amount of ZDDP needed for a gallon of oil based upon the 1,400 desired PPM level.

I will try to explain it now:

On the left side of the grid are the numbers for the proportion of 1400 PPM.  This amounts to 1400 on the top and 998,600 on the bottom (1,000,000 - 1,400)

On the right side, the top box is the unknown or "x" in the Algebraic equation.

On the right side bottom is the amount of desired oil in ounces (in this case it is 128 ounces which = a gallon of oil)

By cross multiplying you get the equation:

1,400 times 128 will = 998,600x.

this then becomes the equation 998,600x = 179,200 (sides reversed)

Then divide 179,200 by 998,600 and you get 0.1794512317 (this would be the amount of ounces of ZDDP needed in a gallon to equal the 1,400 PPM).  This is also based upon the fact that the initial oil used had NO ZDDP in it.  The ratio would be much less if one uses oil with 1200 ZDDP and one only needed to "bump" it up to 1400.

Hope this makes sense.

Who said that 1400 pm is the "holy grail" for Savage oil ??

I know, Dave.  
The 1200 in dirt cheap Rotella (T4) is quite adequate. Why feel the need to augment it?

And who said that 1400 is required (should)?? ....

Papa Bear wrote on 11/17/17 at 09:21:59:


I typed up a previous reply, but somehow got lost and not posted.

I posed this same question last year when I first joined this forum, and got shellacked for asking it!

However, my idea is to use pure synthetic oil as I think it is far superior to dyno oil as it has much more lubricity!

In defending the status quo here, is the fact that all know we need more ZDDP than regular oils provide (as I am familiar with due to my experience with 3 older BMW Airheads).  It is just the amount that is in question.

Regardless, too little ZDDP is bad and too much is also bad.  Also, the 2 considerations here are clutch slippage & tappet lubrication.

I support the 1,400 "benchmark" as it seems to me to be purely rational and logical.

I do sometimes dis-agree with the people here, but they seem to me to be more than helpful and knowledgeable.  I have received a lot of good ideas from Dave, Verslagen, Oldfeller, and others.  That's why I donated to the site (not enough, though) and recommend others to do so.

A little spent here, can save LOTS of dollars later!

Papa Bear wrote on 11/17/17 at 10:20:32:


Surely you can't ignore the overwhelming evidence that the synthetics & super-synthetics have far more lubrication ability AND their lubrication levels don't break down nearly as fast as dynos? Right?

My concerns are the same as many here about the  ZDDP and the clutch compatibility.

I guess based upon your logic, we should all be using the same wheels Fred Flintstone used on his hot rod! hehehe

YES!  It is good to re-invent the wheel if it makes for a better wheel !!!

SALB wrote:  Does anyone have the data on the new T6?

I asked that question before, and got no answer. I keep looking online, but all I find are specs a few years old.

norm92de wrote on 11/18/17 at 16:20:27:


They have increased the Moly content, and for some it has caused the clutch to slip....and these were long time T6 users.

The clutch in the Savage may not be as strong as bigger/faster motorcycles, and they may have a clutch with a bit more extra holding power than the Savage has......so the new T6 may work fine in other bikes.

Thanks, very useful report, and recent (8/16/2017).

So T6 5W-40 Extreme Temperature (CK4) has 1199 ppm Zinc and no Moly, while T6 5W-40 (CJ4/SM) has 1390 ppm Zinc and 71 ppm Moly.

I am running CJ4 in my S40 right now. No problems with the clutch, but I might swap to the CK4 rated version of T6, with no Moly.