norm92de wrote on 11/09/17 at 14:05:39:


This is a benefit for any/all engines.  For engines that are run regularly the a small film of oil will be on the engine parts at start up......when an engine has been in storage for a while the oil film can be gone.  When I put my bikes up for the winter I use StaBil fogging oil in the cylinder to protect the piston.  The head on the Savage has a little rectangular "well" under the cam that holds a small amount of oil after the engine is shut off.  This allows the cam lobes to be dipped in oil as you start the engine - HOWEVER - if you leave the motorcycle sitting on the side stand.....the oil in the well is on the left side of the engine, and the exhaust cam lobe may not get dipped in any oil.  It is also not good to let the bike idle while leaned over on the side stand, as it can be starved for oil.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447331708


The current problem with choosing a synthetic oil - is that it is hard to find the ZDDP level that most of them contain...and a lot of them have friction modifiers that can result in clutch slippage.  We know that the Savage needs around 1,200 ppm of ZDDP to stay healthy, and a lot of the modern oils are manufactured with only 600-800 ppm of ZDDP to comply with the EPA requirements for engines with oxygen sensors and catalytic converters.  Picking a "car" synthetic oil could be a bad move for the cam and clutch - and picking a modern synthetic motorcycle oil that is safe for the clutch may still be a problem for your cam if it does not have enough ZDDP.  Nearly all oil manufacturers advise you not to add ZDDP to their oils...they believe they know what is best for you and your engine.

Rotella T6 in the current mix is not approved for use in motorcycles, and some folks who have been long term users have reported they are now getting clutch slippage.......Rotella T6 may not be a good oil for your Savage anymore.

The absolute "best" synthetic oils are "esther" oils.  The oil has an affinity for metal at the molecular level....and it stick to the metal like glue.  They are expensive to make and expensive to buy - the Maxima oil that was recommended for use in my Sherco trials motorcycle was $65 a gallon!  I have no idea what the ZDDP level is in the oil to confirm it is good oil to use in the Savage.
http://www.maximausa.com/product/extra4/

If someone can find an affordable synthetic motorcycle oil that has over 1,000 ppm of ZDDP (1,200 ppm would be preferred)......lets get them posted on this forum and it may be the new forum recommended synthetic replacement for the Rotella T6.  (Until that time.....I am going to keep using the T4).  

 

I hesitate to say this, because I don't want this to elevate into an oil war.

I literally contacted a few month's ago, the tech department of Pennzoil about their new Natural Gas based oil and asked them if it would be compatible with the S40s.  At the time, I wasn't aware of their connection with Shell.

They wrote me back and said that the Pennzoil wasn't - however they are the ones who directed me to the Rotella T6, because they said that it WAS compatible.  That it would not harm or make the clutch slip, and that it did have the 1,200 ZDDP level needed.

True or not?  I do not know!

However, I have done what I am about to describe since I purchased my S40.  I have used LUCAS oil additive (available in either dino or synthetic) in my oil mixture.  I use the recommended 20% mix for all my engines - cars, lawn mowers, etc.  However after conferring with the Lucas engineer on the phone, he suggested that on any wet clutch engine, change the mix to just 10%.

This additive does the oil "sticking" thing, keeping the oil residue clinging to the metal parts after the engine is shut off, reducing metal wear to next to nothing as cold startups is where most wear happens.

As I said, I have used this 10% mixture now for over a year in my S40, and for over 7,000 miles, in both cold (40 Degree) and hot (95 Deg.) weather, and have NEVER had any indication of clutch slippage!  Period.

My last oil change (after about 2,500 miles) showed the oil to look at least nearly new with no normal-to-used-oil darkening.  The magnetic plug had nothing on it of any metal particulate.

I am also using Dave's suggestion of 1 oz. per oil change (oops!  correction: 1/2 oz. per oil change!) of the Red Line ZDDP additive which covers the ZDDP issue.

I have been riding, fixing, and rebuilding motorcycles since I was 16 years old (even worked in a Honda/BMW dealership) and have literally thousands and thousands of miles of riding on many brands.  I am not a neophyte to motorcycling.

I just throw this out for your info.

I read that both Mobil 1 15W-50 (oil for flat tappets engines) and the Mobil 1 5-40 (for turbo diesels) had 1300 ppm (zinc content). I also read recently that T6 5W-40 had 1257 ppm. Problem is that what I read online is from 2012 or before.

Can someone here point me to a site with appropriate and recent specs for the T6?

PS: I am currently using T6 5W-40 with no additives.

piedmontbuckeye wrote on 11/10/17 at 08:08:12:

If I recall correctly, OF and I can confirm the issue and switching to Rot T or T4 will resolve the issue after awhile.

PMB,
I currently use Mobil 1 racing 4T 10W40 in my bike but with only 7k miles it doesn't mean very much. The tappets seem to be very stable with no measurable wear. Yet!

It is the most expensive that means something doesn't it.

If everyone wants the oil to be sticky and cling to parts, why not add STP ?

I have run T6 all summer and NO clutch slippage. Just add a little ZZP.