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Trouble with Rotella T6? (Read 1257 times)
Dave
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Trouble with Rotella T6?
09/12/17 at 06:32:16
Recently Shell changed the container format for the Rotella oil, and they made a few changes to the oil inside as well.
The changes to the Rotella T have been somewhat minor, and it is now marketed as T4. It remains one of the best oils you can use in the Savage engine, and it most likely doesn't need any bump to the ZDDP levels, and does not have any friction modifiers so it is safe to use in a wet clutch motorcycle.
Old Rotella T analysis:
http://pqiadata.org/ShellRotellaT15W40.html
New Rotella T4 analysis:
http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html
The changes to the T6 seem like they may not be good for the Savage clutch - as they have added Moly to the oil. MMRanch and Oldfeller were both long time users of the T6, and they both experienced clutch slippage and have stopped using the T6. I don't know at what ppm level the Moly causes clutch problems, and I have not yet found a listing of what is in the new T6 - hopefully that will come along soon.
Old Rotella T6 analysis:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/shellrotellat6.htm
The purpose of this thread is to discuss if we should stop recommending the use of T6 in the Savage.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #1 -
09/12/17 at 06:59:35
Thanks for monitoring this, Dave. I wish I could offer some insight, but about the time of the relabeling and a previous discussion on this, I started using the T4 with 1oz/gal ZDDP and plan to stick with that, especially considering I change my oil way more frequently than the norm so I don't need the longevity of the the T6.
I am interested to see if this prompts other replies of possible clutch slippage with the new T6.
Based on your initial observation, I would say that the T4 should be the new recommended oil with a disclaimer that the T6
used
to be recommended until the changes circa early 2017.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #2 -
09/12/17 at 09:02:38
I'm using T6 and I'm not having any issues, as a matter of fact it seems to run smoother. My bike is new (2017 3500kms) I will keep a eye on this.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #3 -
09/12/17 at 21:03:02
Dave,
Does the new T6 have the MA rating for wet clutches? It seems strange that people are having problems with clutches.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #4 -
09/13/17 at 14:36:21
On this page
https://rotella.shell.com/products/t6-full-synthetic.html
it says at the bottom:
"OEM Specifications and Approvals for Shell ROTELLA® T6 full synthetic heavy duty engine oil
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9; JASO DH-2; Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575,
JASO MA/MA2
,
Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228."
Pretty well answers that question
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #5 -
11/05/17 at 15:53:33
Any updates on this topic? I'm due for an oil change, and was thinking about switching over to a synthetic to ease cold starts. (I ride through the winter when conditions permit.) I've been scouring the internet trying to find the maximum moly levels allowed in a JASO MA oil, but can't seem to find anything. Any other synthetics that might meet the specs that don't cost a fortune?
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #6 -
11/05/17 at 17:24:05
Any motorcycle specific synthetic oil will work fine. Go to your local bike shop and they will have dozens.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #7 -
11/05/17 at 17:48:28
T4 with a sprinkling of ZDDP , sticking with what works and is readily available for a fair price. Thanks for the update Dave.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #8 -
11/05/17 at 19:17:18
T4 for me ... forget the "sprinkles"
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #9 -
11/06/17 at 14:17:50
Gary_in_NJ wrote
on 11/05/17 at 17:24:05:
Any motorcycle specific synthetic oil will work fine. Go to your local bike shop and they will have dozens.
--------------
I don't believe this is true. I think there are some motorcycle specific synthetics that are not suitable.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #10 -
11/06/17 at 15:07:50
Name one
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #11 -
11/06/17 at 16:02:22
Without getting into ZDDP levels, the local bike shops are VERY PROUD of the stuff they sell.
If T6 won't work, I'll just use some of the old Rotella T I still have left.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #12 -
11/07/17 at 13:09:45
Gary_in_NJ wrote
on 11/06/17 at 15:07:50:
Name one
------------------
Here is one, and I think there are more! Otherwise, they would be listed here on this web site, wouldn't they?
There are also some that have low levels of ZDDP that shouldn't be used unless one ups the ZDDP himself.
Lucas High Performance 4T Motorcycle Oil WITH MOLY is designed for NON WET APPLICATIONS
I also think (as I remember when I did all my own research with the various companies) that there were some Harly V-Twin specific oils that were not compatible with wet clutches (Valvoline or something like that if my memory serves me). I know for a fact that there are some BMW specific oils that were not designed for wet clutches - but for the older dry clutches on them.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #13 -
11/07/17 at 18:29:55
Well yeah, you have to use an oil that is compatible with wet clutches. Name a motorcycle specific synthic oil - designed for wet clutches - that can't be used in a Savage? You can't. Rosella T4 is great because it works in our bikes at half the cost of a motorcycle specific oil. T6 use to work, and now it doesn't. So if you want to use synthetic, no problem - use a motorcycle oil. But you'll pay for the privilege.
Me, I'm using T4.
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Re: Trouble with Rotella T6?
Reply #14 -
11/09/17 at 06:06:34
I think that the synthetics add far more lubricity than the conventional oils. And the super-synthetics (those with the natural gas base) are even better.
I was informed by an oil "guru" that the supers have proven to be markedly superior to even the older synthetics and that they actually double the oil life as they provide superior lubricity and they don't break down as easily as other offerings.
There are only 2 "supers" that I know of, Shell Rotella T6 & Pennzoil (the one with the blue print on the label). Both owned by Shell.
However, I was told that the T6 was suitable for the Savage (by the mfg. techs whom I contacted on my own).
Well . . . yeah...
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