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Loss of power cont. (Read 408 times)
jjthejetplane
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Loss of power cont.
02/06/16 at 06:43:35
 
Hello all,

Hope everyone is well and riding the winter coaster safely.
I have been slowly getting my bike road ready and recently drained my oil.
Here's the long and short:
Had carb issues, broken engine breather hose, needed oil change
Cleaned and rebuilt the carb, replaced the hose,changed the oil

That was about 800 mi ago and in VA. I disconnected a wire under the tank just outside Henderson,NC and w the help of JOG did some roadside diagnostics and got her running again.

I'm currently in ATL, GA. I have since picked up a nail. Took the bike to have the tire pressure checked a mile away and en route home,halfway up a hill, my bike lost all forward momentum while still revving. Again, I called JOG who suggested I check and loosen my clutch. Which I have and there is a bit more free play.
He also suggested I change my oil as it seemed really low upon visual inspection and so that I could check for flecks of metal/aluminum. I was at a slight incline. I drained the oil and saw no abnormalities and it was really just slightly less than 2qts. I'd noticed some oil on the clutch cable and thought maybe there was a leak. I did a visual inspection of the air filter and noticed it was installed upside down and subsequently has a small crack in the frame of the filter. It is a K&N.
The tire guy was in sight the entire time and I hadn't noticed any slippage during my few short rides since my roadtrip here.

Whilst talking w JOG we realized a few things- my bike is at 24,5xx mi. Idk if it has had a cam adjustment. I am praying HOPING that it does/did. I may have possibly caused tension in my clutch when removing things roadside in Henderson and lastly, I went down in Rich and am worried I pushed my clutch pedal in when the bike went down. I posted here asking about the change in pressure in my clutch after I went down that night. It was slight but I could feel it. Now, there is a tiny kink...the tiniest kink when I squeeze in my clutch.  Undecided
I was wondering if my jamming the clutch pedal could cause slippage. I'm assuming that my revving without moving was caused by clutch slippage.

At this stage, I have drained my oil to replace it with Rotella T(was using Mobil 1) but have held off on pouring it in until I know if I need to a. Replace the air filter and b. Do the cam chain adjustment. I have been reading up on the cam chain adjustment and watching vids. Could I have made it here, without it? I've only put the 800 mi on the bike.
It's still very much a new toy for me/ my baby.

Suggestions???
I don't want to monopolize all of JOG'S time.

Thanks.

I have all day today to git er done so anxiously awaiting replies. The sunny days are few and far between here in Ga.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #1 - 02/06/16 at 06:45:26
 
Air filter crack
Is it safe to use?
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #2 - 02/06/16 at 07:46:35
 
I wouldn't give up such an expensive filter because of such a tiny crack...
It's probably fine as it is,.. but, a little smear of rtv silicone on the crack will fix any air that might be leaking past...

If you're feeling a kink in the clutch cable, you should replace it.
Not too expensive,... and will likely fix the clutch slip...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Art Webb
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #3 - 02/06/16 at 08:07:40
 
seconded
I messed up my throttle cable pretty bad in a get off, and the engine 'idled' at 3000 rpm, I imagine a kinked cable on the clutch could cause no end of greif
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #4 - 02/06/16 at 08:31:12
 
The most serious issue I see is the mileage. And the fact that she experienced severe clutch slippage. It wouldn't pull a hill.
She was not experienced enough to know that if the engine is spinning and the transmission is in gear and it should be pulling fifty MPH and the thing is going five MPH, you're glazing the clutch. She had zero slack in the cable. We addressed that.
What we don't know is, how damaged is the clutch?
Is the rod too long?
Pretty sure the cam chain needs attention.


My thinking is
Put oil in, see if the clutch works now that the cable has slack.

If not, well, go in.
But going in, dealing with the cam, and Then discovering the clutch needs help would kinda suk.

Considering the miles, apparent lack of maintenance by the PO, I'd be interested in the valve adjustments and condition of cam/lifters.

Considering the clutch slippage event, where she did what most people would do, gas it, make it go, and she did that for a good while,  
What can be added to the oil to clean up the clutch guts and get it grabbing again?

Of course, if it's worn and the rod is too long, then the throw out is pinned to the case.

Marks on the case will give her a clue.

Certainly the first thing to check.
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Art Webb
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #5 - 02/06/16 at 08:42:44
 
this is one of those 'JOG knows better than me' things, lets see what Dave, et al have to say on the matter
I'd be tempted top just go on in, check the clutch rod / plates, check the tensioner, just so I don't waste 2 qts of oil if replacing oil doesn't do it
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #6 - 02/06/16 at 09:06:06
 
Thanks for the replies. I didn't wna add the oil to have to drain it again, either, Art.
I emailed you pics, JOG.

Serow, pulling the clutch cable...would I be able to check for a kink? I can feel it but idk that there is one.

JoG,
Should I check everything before adding the oil or do you think it is worth giving it the old Harvard try with the oil? I feel like you're not too confident theboil will make a difference. I watched a vid of a guy addingbthe tensioner and he used some sandpaper on his clutch and replaced the rod. Do you think that would be a viable option for saving my clutch if I have glazed it?

I will add the oil now if so.
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #7 - 02/06/16 at 09:45:35
 
I'm waiting for Dave, Verslagen and any others who have experience with the clutch to chime in. Looking at the clutch cover marks and position of the clutch disengagement arm is something that you can do without having to wait.
The pictures of oil in a cup don't allow me to slosh it around out in the sun. Or, pour some through a coffee filter or paper towel.
Describing how I do things is long, tedious and likely not even helpful to a novice.
Until you've changed oil a few times and studied it and determined what Normal looks like, not having a crisis, then looking at the oil and seeing some stuff floating in it might lead you to believe that you have a problem. Since you drained around two quarts, at least we are not scared that you oil starved it, like when we were talking. I'm much more at ease hearing that it wasn't critically low.

Gotta know if the rod is too long, so, check the arm and marks on the clutch cover.

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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #8 - 02/06/16 at 11:03:03
 
here's what you're looking for...

the lever has to be above the lower mark and below the upper one.
where to read the mark on the lever is another discussion.
everything you don't want to know about your clutch...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270678838
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #9 - 02/06/16 at 17:48:17
 
Thank you, doing some reading now.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #10 - 02/08/16 at 11:17:42
 
The lever is above the lower mark and below the upper.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #11 - 02/08/16 at 11:18:42
 
Sorry I couldn't get a clearer pic.
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #12 - 02/08/16 at 11:46:55
 
Are you lifting up on the lever... taking the slack out of the cable?
Or what?

My pic shows the lever being lifted by a rubber band.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #13 - 02/10/16 at 11:39:26
 
I misunderstood. Sorry.
This is a quote from oldfeller on the post you sent:
Note that the eccentric has a return spring of its very own and the rubber band force has to be calibrated to be able to move this separate small stiff return spring or you aren't really moving anything that counts.

The lever (with the small rubber band up force) should point between the marks on the case when you are done.   This "between the marks" shows you the rod length is correct for the wear state of your clutch

Could I use a bungee cord? I am currently reading http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246935676/0 as a cross reference trying to understand.  What I have ascertained thus far is that the clutch will not have to be replaced. I can use a longer rod if mybplates have worn down-which is likely. The original post and poster was using the same oil thatvid used and the one i am about to use., mobil 1 and rotella t. His issue persisted but oldfeller was able to recover his plates. I'd come across that post before but didn't understand it as I didn't read it in its entirety and it wasn't relevant ATM.
My ques now are should I disengage the clutch cable to check where my clutch lever is sitting? I don't really understand in practice bc there were way too many words after a while  Undecided information overload. I have bungee cord and hair ties.  Haha
While I am inspecting or recovering my plates, if I should need a new rod the preferred length is 46.5, right? Could you guys send me a part number or a link to find one?
How will I know if I need to do the can chain tensioner adjustment and should I do it now while dealing with the clutch issue?
I still have not added my oil bc I realized I'd misunderstood but needed to read before opening my mouth again. Should I wait to do that until after I have checked out the clutch? Or should I add the oil and see if it makes a difference before inspecting the cam shaft?
I'm going to continue reading and watch a few videos if I can find any. Thanks for all the help.
The older posts are interesting esp watching you guys discover what is now wisdom for me. Thanks.
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verslagen1
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Re: Loss of power cont.
Reply #14 - 02/10/16 at 12:17:46
 
So the answer was no, you were not lifting up on the lever.
jjthejetplane wrote on 02/10/16 at 11:39:26:
Could I use a bungee cord?  

yes, the example of the rubber band is for how much force to lift it up with. (more than a feather, less than a crane)

you can even squeeze the clutch lever, but just enough to take the slack out of the cable, not enough to operate the clutch.
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