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Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustment? (Read 780 times)
Digger
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Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustment?
07/06/09 at 20:01:16
 
I searched and couldn't find that this issue has been addressed before.

My Factory Service Manual (FSM) says:

NOTE:
After installing the clutch cover, check whether the clutch lever is properly positioned or not by referring to the mark on the right crankcase.
If the lever is not properly positioned, disassemble the clutch cover and select the proper size of the clutch push rod in the table of page 3.38


The above-mentioned table then lists three clutch rods, each one mm longer than the one before it.

Here is a pic.  You are looking at the end of the clutch release arm and, specifically, at the two index marks embossed in the right crankcase:





Question:  What the heck is the FSM referring to.  I'm assuming something like the extension of the center-line of the clutch release arm should fall in between the two index marks.  If this is not the case, you can install a clutch push rod of a different length.

By "clutch push rod," I'm referring to #22 in the following schematic:

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/Mak...

Any takers?

TIA!
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Digger
2001, Metallic Glacial Blue, Raptor Petcock, Verslavy (first hole) (otherwise, mechanically, the bike is stock), 13,xxx miles
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verslagen1
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #1 - 07/06/09 at 20:38:52
 
Your cover got marks on it?    Shocked
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Digger
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #2 - 07/06/09 at 21:46:27
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/06/09 at 20:38:52:
Your cover got marks on it?    Shocked


The right side of the crankcase does on my bike (see my signature).

Yours might, too.

Look at the clutch release arm on one of your Savages.  The end of the arm (where the end of the clutch cable is attached) points at the crankcase.   If you look on the crankcase where it is pointing to, you will see two little index marks, as seen in this picture:


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Digger
2001, Metallic Glacial Blue, Raptor Petcock, Verslavy (first hole) (otherwise, mechanically, the bike is stock), 13,xxx miles
I don't own a cage.
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verslagen1
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #3 - 07/06/09 at 21:50:49
 
yep, both the '96 and the '02 have them.
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Digger
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #4 - 07/08/09 at 18:47:45
 
Digger wrote on 07/06/09 at 20:01:16:
I searched and couldn't find that this issue has been addressed before.

My Factory Service Manual (FSM) says:

NOTE:
After installing the clutch cover, check whether the clutch lever is properly positioned or not by referring to the mark on the right crankcase.
If the lever is not properly positioned, disassemble the clutch cover and select the proper size of the clutch push rod in the table of page 3.38


The above-mentioned table then lists three clutch rods, each one mm longer than the one before it.

Here is a pic.  You are looking at the end of the clutch release arm and, specifically, at the two index marks embossed in the right crankcase:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ClutchCoverIndexMarksE.jpg


Question:  What the heck is the FSM referring to.  I'm assuming something like the extension of the center-line of the clutch release arm should fall in between the two index marks.  If this is not the case, you can install a clutch push rod of a different length.

By "clutch push rod," I'm referring to #22 in the following schematic:

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/Mak...

Any takers?

TIA!



Digger wrote on 07/06/09 at 20:01:16:
....Question:  What the heck is the FSM referring to.  I'm assuming something like the extension of the center-line of the clutch release arm should fall in between the two index marks.  If this is not the case, you can install a clutch push rod of a different length.

By "clutch push rod," I'm referring to #22 in the following schematic:

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/Mak....


OK, Savagista.

How does one use these index marks to determine the proper length of clutch push rod to be installed?
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Digger
2001, Metallic Glacial Blue, Raptor Petcock, Verslavy (first hole) (otherwise, mechanically, the bike is stock), 13,xxx miles
I don't own a cage.
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Digger
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #5 - 07/12/09 at 21:13:17
 
OK, where's Kropatchek when you need him?
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Digger
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #6 - 07/13/09 at 08:33:19
 
If I had mine apart, Digger, Id be studying it, trying to come up with an answer here. The things I think I would do would be to see what length throwout rod it needed to stick out far enough to engage the cam early enough so as to ensure disengagement b4 running out of travel. GHow the lines aid in choosing the rod length? I dunno, but in trying other lengths , it might become obvious.

I have a vernier caliper, I couldnt read it, I tried the instructions, but they blew my mind,so I just started measuring things of known value & studying the scale & figured it out, maybe this would work like that.
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #7 - 07/13/09 at 08:53:10
 
The issue here is to keep the cam at the optimum angle for max disengagement of the clutch with the minimum lever force.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #8 - 07/13/09 at 09:01:54
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/13/09 at 08:53:10:
The issue here is to keep the cam at the optimum angle for max disengagement of the clutch with the minimum lever force.




Yea, something inside knew that, I just didnt quite spit it out, thanks..
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #9 - 07/13/09 at 09:41:33
 
Here is what Verslagen and Toymaker and I talked about in the pool after the Dragon run -- our clutch plates don't really "wear out" when we think they are worn out, what really happens is they wear enough to move beyond the adjust ability of the pivot-push system you have just shown.  There is plenty of meat left on the plates that are being removed during a clutch plate change out.

The different rod lengths allow you to accommodate the stack up of the friction/steel plates as wear takes place.

The wrinkle we were talking about was keeping up with the stack as it gets thinner, then popping in another steel and another worn friction once the stack gets short enough.   This would create a "high performance" clutch pack, able to take modified motor torque outputs.

Another point that drives the discussion are reports of "very short clutch life" after replacing the plates -- once again accumulated wear in the entire lever/cable/pivot system causes you to quickly go outside the adjustment parameters of the pivot-push lever even though you have fresh plates that you just put in.

No one has ever worn their clutch plates to the service thickness limits given in the Clymers or shop manual.    Yet clutch slippage is reported frequently here on the list.

Verslagen was popping off about creating a pack of 6 rod lengths so a user could always be able to tune what he had for optimum clutch performance.  This could span beyond what Suzuki offers in extra rod lengths.
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #10 - 07/13/09 at 10:04:51
 
The clutch on a car runs out of "toe PLay" as the clutch wears. Would we need a shorter or longer rod as the clutches wear? Would I need to put slack in the cable?
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #11 - 07/13/09 at 10:40:32
 
I think if you run out of cable adjustment, but the clutch doesn't slip, you might need a longer rod. If you run out of cable adjustment AND the clutch slips, then either the plates are worn, or the springs got weak. Putting slack in the cable will ensure that the clutch is gripping 100%, but you run into the problem if too much play, it won't disengage enough. The rod is usually relaxed when the clutch lever is relaxed. If the plates are worn a bit, you need to compensate with tightening the cable. If you run out of cable adjustment, and the clutch doesn't slip yet, you either have a stretched cable, or more likely need to put a longer rod in the clutch. Or even the cam has worn too much on that spot it keeps hitting the rod. On my cam, there was a little identation where the rod touches, but I don't know if it comes from the factory like that.
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Digger
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #12 - 07/15/09 at 21:47:45
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/13/09 at 08:53:10:
The issue here is to keep the cam at the optimum angle for max disengagement of the clutch with the minimum lever force.


Ver,

I agree.  SWMBO's '92 BMW R100RT had an adjustment like that for dialing in the clutch play.

My question has to do with actually reading the index marks.  What exactly am I looking for (see the first post in this thread again, please).

TIA!
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Digger
2001, Metallic Glacial Blue, Raptor Petcock, Verslavy (first hole) (otherwise, mechanically, the bike is stock), 13,xxx miles
I don't own a cage.
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #13 - 07/15/09 at 22:50:52
 
Digger wrote on 07/15/09 at 21:47:45:
My question has to do with actually reading the index marks.  What exactly am I looking for (see the first post in this thread again, please).

Ok, item 22 has 3 versions. So most certainly this is what needs to be changed.  And one wonders why if the lengths are not specified, why aren't they packaged together?

A lesson in engineering tolerancing.  There's an easy way and the right way to tolerance a stack up of several parts.  The easy way... nominal ± 0.002"  except when you make parts you like to make them in a way that has a little forgiveness to the method of manufacture.  It's easier to remove metal than to put it back on.  So you tolerance it +.001/-.003" your target is zero.

So how do you apply this to those 2 lines?  More metal is going to push the lever towards the bottom.  Less metal and the lever will rise.  So I would shoot for the bottom quarter mark as being optimum.  But that's being anal to a BMW level.  Get the b'tard between the marks and ride   Cool
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Digger
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Re: Index Marks on Clutch Cover - Clutch Adjustmen
Reply #14 - 07/16/09 at 21:47:54
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/15/09 at 22:50:52:
Digger wrote on 07/15/09 at 21:47:45:
My question has to do with actually reading the index marks.  What exactly am I looking for (see the first post in this thread again, please).

Ok, item 22 has 3 versions. So most certainly this is what needs to be changed.  And one wonders why if the lengths are not specified, why aren't they packaged together?...


The FSM (Chapter 3, Engine; Clutch inspection section) states that the three different rods have lengths of 1.75", 1.79", and 1.83".

verslagen1 wrote on 07/15/09 at 22:50:52:
....So how do you apply this to those 2 lines?  More metal is going to push the lever towards the bottom.  Less metal and the lever will rise.  So I would shoot for the bottom quarter mark as being optimum.  But that's being anal to a BMW level.  Get the b'tard between the marks and ride   Cool


Unless I see anything different, I'm going to assume this is how you use these index marks:

With the clutch cable disconnected from the clutch release arm, observe the position of the inboard end of the clutch release arm with respect to the index marks on the starboard crankcase.

If the extension of the longitudinal centerline of the clutch release arm falls within the index marks, you're good to go.  If not, you need to swap the clutch pushrod for one with a different length.

Missiles?
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Digger
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