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Android/Chrome vs Windows 10 (Read 13614 times)
Oldfeller
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #825 - 11/12/17 at 17:08:30
 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08/microsoft_windows_server_qualcomm/



Microsoft has ported its Windows Server operating system to the Qualcomm Centriq – a 64-bit ARM-compatible server-grade system-on-chip.

In a move that will pile further pressure on Intel – which dominates the data center market but is already unnerved by AMD's Naples server processor – Qualcomm and Microsoft will today show off Windows Server running on a 10nm Centriq 2400 system at the Open Compute Project Summit in California.

Qualcomm's Centriq family uses the Falkor microarchitecture, and features up to 48 64-bit ARMv8-compatible cores fabricated using a 10nm FinFET process. If it hits the data center market on time – it's slated to ship in volume in the latter half of 2017 – it will beat Intel's 10nm Xeons by roughly 12 months. The system-on-chip line officially, for now, runs flavors of Linux from Red Hat and Canonical.

The Qualcomm Centriq 2400 Open Compute Motherboard has a single socket for a Centriq SoC with up to 48 cores, a 50Gb/s NIC, 32 lanes of PCIe 3, two USB ports, 1GbE PHY, eight SATA ports, and six channels of DDR4 RAM (running at 2667MT/s) with one or two DIMMs per channel. This sits on a 210mm by 404mm half-width 1U mobo that fits in a normal 19" rack.

"This is to get the server ecosystem prepped and ready," Ram Peddibhotla, vice president of product management at Qualcomm Datacenter Technologies, told The Register earlier this week. He added: "In collaborating with Microsoft and other industry leading partners, we are democratizing system design and enabling a broad-based ARM server ecosystem."

Qualcomm is also joining the OCP Foundation as a gold member, as well as offering up its blueprints.


Yep, it is a FOSS effort ..... Intel is being killed slowly by a FOSS consortium, one being put together and point led by Mark Zuckerman and financed by Facebook and crowdfunding .....

Hey Intel, your days of price gouging everybody are over.  

 Grin    hee hee    Grin

"They" have come for you at last.



====================================================



Note the Great Divide up line



Qualcomm, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, AMD and everybody who supports the OCP, DynamIQ standards and ARM RISC processing line up over here .....


vs


Intel, and Broadcom over there ......    (Broadcom builds all those multitude of little chips that crowd up an Intel motherboard, you know, the ones that ARM doesn't need because it is all on the chip itself)




Apple has moved sides recently on my simplistic split up, and supports the OCP side since later on this past summer.   Quite frankly, I missed this move as for the longest time Apple refused to pick a side and by doing so were default counted with the old school boys.  

However, having spit it out publicly that they side with the FOSS angels Apple is likely to support all the rest of the OCP standards going forward.

Broadcom is likely to eventually move over to the FOSS angels side as well, since they will see market share and sales move in that direction.    So far the most Broadcom has done is open source some very old switch designs that are really too old to be of much utility.



Look to see the next set of Intel dirty tricks exit the little black bag in time for New Years (likely involves some nasty IP lawsuits made by front men).

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« Last Edit: 11/13/17 at 13:50:59 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #826 - 11/13/17 at 12:32:24
 
 
https://liliputing.com/2017/11/qualcomm-trns-broadcoms-130-billion-acquisition-o
ffer.html

Qualcomm turns down Broadcom’s $130 billion acquisition offer

It’s not hard to understand why Broadcom made the offer. The company has an extensive portfolio of products, but there’s not a huge amount of overlap with Qualcomm. While Broadcom is best known for its networking solutions, Qualcomm is one of the dominant players in the smartphone CPU and GPU space. Combining the two companies would create a serious powerhouse in the low-power chip space.

Whether the deal would be approved by regulators is an open question, but it’s one that may go unanswered, since Qualcomm is rejecting the unsolicited acquisition offer.

Technically, it’s still up to Qualcomm’s shareholders to decide whether to reject the deal. But with the board of the company unanimously recommending against, it seems unlikely to go through… at least at the current price.

While $130 billion is a lot of money, Qualcomm’s board says the offer undervalues the company, which is currently expanding beyond smartphones and into other markets including automotive, Internet of Things, and networking.


UNDERVALUED, yes I agree with that statement.

Let's see ..... Qualcomm is leading FOSS into Server Space using DynamIQ chipsets swinging over 46 core sets (sets of 4  cores & sets of 8 cores which is how the overall "strength" parameter is being controlled right now).    Also note that any bad cores get dropped from the core count list making up some sub-type sorted outcome part numbers that are slightly weaker than the primo SoCs.   This is also why the chip is spec'd at 46 cores while 48 cores are physically there, they expect a little bit of a failure rate when the chip is a brand new little puppy production-wise.

I suspect they will continue to build at the full 48 sets of 8 cores per set and let the failure rates dictate the number of lesser processors they have to sell (they got 4 lesser slots they can downgrade into).   Sub-grade processors that will get accumulated over time and get shipped periodically at a strong discount.

When Samsung gets really really good at it, then the price of the primo chipset can go down to increase the demand rate back on up to equilibrium again at the lesser flaw rates.    Then comes 7nm next year and 5nm two years later on ......

Qualcomm is breaking into laptops with Microsoft doing the Snapdragon 835 and 845 phone chips as laptop chips and by making sure that Microsoft Win Server runs really really well on Centriq 2400 processors.

Qualcomm is also breaking into AI with the Snapdragon 845 in a somewhat LARGER fashion, since it is swinging a larger AI processing block linked with the more powerful graphics processor.

Qualcomm is a leader that has made a series of progressive partnerships on a series of significant issues --- and Qualcomm generally brings home the bacon whenever they start something.

This is not to say that Qualcomm is without flaw, as they have done their fair share of dumb and greedy things over the years.

But they are not at an Intel or Microsoft level flaw-wise by anybody's guess.

Apple saying Qualcomm is greedy is about as bad as it gets   (pot calling the kettle black there, actually)

I have to agree that Broadcom's take-over bid was perhaps a calculated distraction orchestrated by Intel to try to get the bad Qualcomm man to slow down on the Intel kidney kickings to some small degree --- or mebbe just to get Qualcomm to stop taking R & L turns whacking Intel in the knees all the durn time with that bloody baseball bat ......

Smiley      .....so,  let the Intel beatings continue unabated .....

If Intel isn't writhing, squealing and bleeding, they ain't innovating hard enough .....
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« Last Edit: 11/13/17 at 21:56:27 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #827 - 11/13/17 at 21:16:20
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tiriasresearch/2017/11/10/qualcomm-launches-into...




OK, enough of the enthusiasm from the booster side of things, let's hear the Forbes professional FINANCE people discuss whether this stuff is real or perhaps worth pursuing at a corporate level.

The technical merits of Qualcomm’s Centriq 2400 boil down to a very simple comparison – Centriq 2400 performance per hardware thread is solidly in Intel Xeon Scalable performance per thread territory, while consuming a lot less power. And yes, it also costs a lot less.

A lot of partners and potential customers took the stage to speak about how their testing programs were going at the launch event. Microsoft and Google and Facebook were there making progress reports about their own work loads and testing programs.  Press release quotes must be approved by legal and marketing departments; I find that on-stage ad libs say much more. Here are the top quotes I paid attention to:

"Let me congratulate you on launching Centriq 2400. It’s the highest performance ARM processor and can actually run workloads that I care about.” –Dr. Leendert van Doorn, Distinguished Engineer, Microsoft Azure Data Group

Dr. van Doorn doesn’t mince words, ever. His team has evaluated all the available ARM server products. Earlier this year, Microsoft gave a nod to Qualcomm’s Centriq, Cavium’s ThunderX2, AMD’s EPYC and Intel’s Xeon Scalable processors as future processor alternatives for specific workloads in its Azure public cloud. Today’s launch fills in a final, vital piece of that competitive field.


Or, you can just cut to the chase -- Centriq is rolling into full test implementations at all the major players as we speak.   These same folks are confident that future generations of Centriq will show further improvements that will keep the large server markets coming back for more Centriq going out into the future.


Plus, for the second time somebody else (Forbes) finally admitted you have to have a PAIR of expensive Intel Xenons to "run equivalent" against one Centriq 2400 and that those two Intel processors costs at least 4x more than a Centriq does  and they will burn at least 2x-3x the watts of power trying to run those same work loads.

"For example, Intel has historically been very proud of Xeon’s floating-point performance. Using preliminary SPECfp_rate2006 numbers (“estimated” because they have not yet gone through SPEC’s reporting process) in a 48 hardware thread comparison, Qualcomm’s Centriq 2460 posted a score of 607 (48 single-threaded cores with a list price $1,995) to Xeon Scalable Platinum 8160’s score of 534 (24 dual-threaded cores with a recommended list price of $4,700 as of 11/9/2017). That’s a 13% better score, without considering price or power consumption."




What is developed for server space will work in PC space and I suspect that an ARM dedicated design for an SoC containing 16  to 24 each A75 cores, a next generation Mali G74 graphics processor and a "sizeable enough" integrated AI adder block could do the same terrible terrible things to Intel's Core i7 product line as it did to Intel's Xenon Scalable Platinum 8160 product line.

..... make good 'ol Intel writhe, bleed and squeal so loudly so they will have to get busy and go innovate some more .....



News Flash -- Intel has dropped all work on their next TWO generations of Xenon processors, both of which went underwater with the current Centriq 2400 competition at this point in time.

Intel realizes that before they can get to 10nm (where Centriq is now) that ARM will have moved to 7nm and be looking at 5nm and they simply will NEVER catch up in that lithography based competition.

AI is moving into rackspace as is Quantum Computing, so Intel isn't going to dun itself in a competition that is based on old style benchmarks that they KNOW they are doomed to lose.

Instead, they opt to blindly leapfrog out into a fuzzy future, hoping to pick up a move on the others .........


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« Last Edit: 11/15/17 at 12:47:13 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #828 - 11/14/17 at 12:41:49
 
You know you've hurt them BAD when they Bleed loudly.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #829 - 11/14/17 at 15:15:54
 

Cheesy

It takes a LOT to get Intel's attention, much less to get them to CONCENTRATE on making some progress on improving on their x86 junk some more.


..... right knee, balls, left knee, kidney, kidney ---  right knee, balls, left knee, kidney, kidney ---  right knee, balls, left knee, kidney, kidney ---  right knee, balls, left knee, kidney, kidney ---  (keep swinging that baseball bat, swing it hard)

..... keeping Intel writhing and squealing and really really working hard on making some Intel type progress is a lot of work all by itself ....
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« Last Edit: 11/15/17 at 13:03:16 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #830 - 11/14/17 at 17:59:42
 
 
https://www.slashgear.com/windows-10-on-snapdagon-835-geekbench-scores-are-un...

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be bearing good fruit either. At least not this early. According to the Geekbench listing, Windows 10 running on a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835, most likely using a reference board, scores 1,202 on the single-core benchmark and 4,263 on multi-core. That wouldn’t be as bad until you consider that typical Android devices on that same chip and reference board get over 2,200 and 7,700 for single and multi core tests, respectively.

It would definitely be a disappointment if Microsoft will be unable to optimize Windows 10 for use on Snapdragon 835 SoCs. Running at such low performance basically negates whatever advantages the ARM architecture has to offer. So while Windows 10 on ARM might fare better than Windows RT on the software side, it will still be a terrible flop if no hardware will run it well.


The very first tentative benchmarks of Win 10 ARM on Qualcomm 835 are now showing up at benchmark sites and unlike the original "prototype" benchmarks it isn't all unalloyed spritely joy springing up all over there in Mudville.

MS has been unable to equal the old "original" Snapdragon 835 Win 10 benchmark speeds because they cannot use Intel system calls as they did back then because Intel won't let them.

So far MS has lacked the ability to code effectively for the single ARM chipset they committed to bring over to Windows 10.

A Core i3 Intel chipset is now coming across as clearly speedier for use with Win 10 at this point in time due to the use of native x86 Intel systems drivers.

Based upon a new view of "Win 10 on ARM reality" that is first really being shown here, then Win 10 on ARM is a bust yet again -- with this time Intel's "playing dog in the manger" on the systems drivers as the root cause.

Look to see MS and Qualcomm perhaps taking a cut down slice of a Centriq 2400 and testing that as a prototype, then designing up a new laptop/desktop chipset accordingly.    Struggling to "almost work" is stupid when they have just proven out a means of EXCEEDING Intel's capabilities at half the cost and half the energy budget of Intel tech.

Also look to see AMD and IBM pushing forward their new ARM based wares as potential solutions to the "Intel issue".

Of course Intel could forestall all such efforts by simply lowering the prices for their Core 17 8th generation chipsets by a third.

Never forget, the entire issue is really Intel's long running habit of price gouging everywhere they possibly can.

News Flash -- Lenovo backs away from their plans for Qualcomm 835 based ARM Windows 10 laptops for this Christmas season.

Hewlett Packard says they are still on schedule to release their Win 10 ARM unit in the second week of December (but have nothing to share for any benchmarks at this point in time -- not a good sign this late in the game).
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« Last Edit: 11/15/17 at 17:52:36 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #831 - 11/15/17 at 12:43:17
 

The failure of the Snapdragon 835 to "properly support" Win 10 ARM has caused MS to request that Qualcomm bring forward the 845 chipset to now (since it too runs on 10nm lithography) and to pull forward the 7nm Snapdragon 855 from late next year to earlier next year to be the 2018 SoC of the year.  

Strong competition in the phone arena is saying the same sorts of things, so Qualcomm is likely willing to bring the two SoCs out early anyway.

MS is seeking enough ARM horsepower to run their kludgy Win 10 ARM software fast enough for their builder partners to make up an "improved" low cost laptop or three for the first half of next year.

The real flaw here is MS's being totally dependent on Intel systems drivers and not having system driver control and/or the needed skills to write their own Win 10 OS's drivers.
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« Last Edit: 11/17/17 at 23:20:12 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #832 - 11/17/17 at 15:09:30
 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-z-nand-sz985-intel-optane,35956.html





OK, a new term for you to remember Samsung Z-Nand

Home based from Samsung (world's second largest foundry) comes their much lower cost version of Intel's pricy Optane memory --- memory that costs a third to half as much as Intel (the #5 foundry volume-wise) and Z-Nand gives 95% to 2x of Optaine's claimed performance depending on the actual memory items being tested and who is doing the testing.

(please note that Intel Optane has never ever met its own claims when tested by others, so there may not be any large difference really between the two performance-wise)

It is also now suspected that this new Samsung Z-Nand memory was what was snuggled on up on top of those new Centriq 2400 processors as "the large amount of chip mounted dedicated L-3 cache memory" which mebbe was one of the reasons why the Centriq 2400 kicked Intel's butt so very very badly last week.

This is just the second entry in the new VERY FAST PERMANENT MEMORY classification, with two-three more entries still waiting to get into the starting gate.

All various fast memory horses will be in the gate by late spring of next year, then the big fast memory horse race can begin in earnest .....

You can count on Z-Nand cache memory being inside all of Samsung's primo chipsets next year, adding that little something extra to Samsung's performance mix.


========================================


Also note that Micron is coming out with their own candidate for super fast permanent memory within the next month or so ..... no specs put out so far, but the general claims are much the same as the others.
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« Last Edit: 11/17/17 at 23:18:45 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #833 - 11/20/17 at 17:54:19
 
             
https://liliputing.com/2017/11/apples-new-imac-pro-feature-apple-a10-co-processo
r-along-intel-xeon-cpu.html


Got some real "no confidence" votes taking place in the computer industry over the current crop of Intel Core i-? PC grades of processors.

This is from Apple, up-spec'ing the $5,000 MacBook Pro units to a full on 18 core Intel Xenon RackStation chipset, backed up with an additional home grown full Apple A-10 processor to just so it can handle the "always on" phone style part of the full on Apple business worker person's needs.

The standard ol' Intel Core i-x is now seen as inadequate, out of date, over the hill, or whatever, (you can put in your own adjectives of your own choosing).

I trust everybody realizes that a Qualcomm Centriq 2400 would kick the ass of this Intel Xenon 18 rack spec unit both up and down the spec ranges AND that the Qualcomm Centriq 2400 would be half as expensive to implement ......   plus it would not need the secondary ARM A-10 chipset as it is already ARM and already AI capable at 46 DynamIQ cores strong.

One questions the source of this conveniently "leaked" press release -- was it really from Apple or was it "leaked" from Intel ?????

I am looking to see a "correction" or "refinement" made to this announcement within a 3 months time span .....

Wink
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« Last Edit: 11/20/17 at 19:27:33 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #834 - Yesterday at 15:51:42
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/intel-confirms-security-vulnerabilities-intel-man
agement-engine.html

Intel confesses that the Minux subsystem that runs their Intel processor core security system SIMPLY ISN'T SECURE AT ALL.   Just kept secret and it was a naturally very obscure very old programming system which means nobody was expecting it to be used ....



The vulnerability could allow an unauthorized user to run code delivered via USB.

Affected systems include those running Intel Management Engine 11.0 through 11.7, Intel Server Platform Services version 4.0, and Intel Trusted Execution Engine 3.0.

That includes 6th-gen, 7th-gen, and 8th-gen Intel Core processors as well as a bunch of other chips including:

Intel Celeron N and J series chips
Intel Pentium Apollo Lake
Intel Atom E3900 Apollo Lake
Intel Atom C3000
Intel Xeon W
Intel Xeon E3-1200 v5 and v6
Intel Xeon Scalable family

Intel has released a tool that you can download and run on Windows or Linux PCs to see if your computer is affected. But you can’t download a fix for the security vulnerability from Intel: it’s up to PC makers to roll out updates. Some companies shave already started to do that, but the outcome will probably vary from PC maker to PC maker.

This is pretty much exactly what critics of the Intel Management Platform had been worried about. Since the software is hidden from end users, many people may not even know it’s running on their computer. And it’s proven difficult for security researchers to examine the code to search for vulnerabilities, which means that it’s largely up to Intel to make sure that this software doesn’t pose a huge security risk unbeknownst to most users.

No wonder companies including Purism and Google have been looking for ways to disable Intel ME (which, ironically, involves finding and exploiting flaws in the software, since it’s not meant to be disabled).



If this was a car, there would be a gov. recall notice put out and the cars would sit until they were fixed properly .....  except by its very nature this computer processing core software CANNOT be fixed.

Tongue
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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 19:06:49 by Oldfeller »  

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