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Android/Chrome/Fuchsia vs Windows/Polaris (Read 15390 times)
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #810 - 10/31/17 at 06:30:39
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/30/17 at 07:08:28:
Hope you're alright.




Friday I go back in for an outpatient PAE surgery to fix what my urologist did to me.    And no, I am not a happy camper as I am still bleeding.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #811 - 10/31/17 at 08:07:40
 
My dad had the 'rotor rooter' job and is still having problems 2 months later.
Hope yours heals faster.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #812 - 11/01/17 at 11:43:50
 



The big sell off of old tech begins .......   early.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #813 - 11/01/17 at 14:29:02
 
They must not expect to run out of them any time soon.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #814 - 11/02/17 at 03:48:30
 
 
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/16502538/mobile-ai-chips-apple-google-hua...

https://www.androidauthority.com/smartphone-ai-processor-803019/


Do you need an AI chip in your phone?   What specifically does it do for you?

Think of it as sorta like a "math co-processor" --- you can live without it but it can really speed up certain types of tasks.

One of the things folks have written already for their built in AI adder blocks to do is to make COMMON BENCHMARK TESTS move a lot faster.    And make their phone's graphics in general  move a lot faster in general.

Having done this, Huawei can make their LAST YEARS big and slow "also ran" CPU/SOC suddenly outpace all of the top dogs of today.

Is it Cheating?   Yes and no, it was done on purpose so the results shown by common benchmarks ARE BETTER, but that is because the graphics in general are moving that much faster and as more and more "optimization" is done on more apps and other things they will run much faster too.

As more things get optimized to use the AI "co-processor" more items will pick up the 20X speed increase that comes with it.    

Next, compared to running a task through the main CPUs, that AI block is fantastically more energy efficient than the old school CPU tech.   Plus the task is DONE much faster too.

This counts for a lot in phones.   Faster and more energy efficient is a real win-win in phones.

Next, doing it "on device" saves you double on the cell data charges for that crunching that item, as the data does not have to go up to the servers and then back down to you for you to see a task completed.   You will see a lot less dead time delay, too .....

Buy in for AI is pretty much complete across all the big boys now, and will show up en masse starting summer of next year.

App writers are able to get the tools they need to learn how to use AI properly right now for free -- Google has a set of tools that work right now on all Android phones that are made to the DynamIQ standard right now at zero cost (and you can use the Google Tensor Flow AI servers to do all your calc work very rapidly for free).

Google now has their Main Data Farm tensor software busy teaching itself how to AI convert your old Android apps, so before very long you can get your AI conversions done by Google fast and free.
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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 14:41:23 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #815 - 11/03/17 at 23:03:40
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/bloomberg-broadcom-may-buy-qualcomm.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-03/broadcom-is-said-to-explor...


Qualcomm has fouled its nest rather badly of late ---- and the stock price as of today reflects these market place and legal errors.  

See Broadcom attempt to capitalise on these errors to pick up wounded duck Qualcomm for cheap.    

Or "to merge" with Qualcomm, if your mind tends to work that way .....
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« Last Edit: 11/04/17 at 05:45:44 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #816 - 11/06/17 at 07:37:04
 

Intel is firing off all their brown vapor cannons again .....   claiming vast new partnerships with ARM, AMD, IBM and others.

You see, Intel has no new worthwhile IP of their own any more, but they are trying to do the old "let's make a partnership" and then Intel will write up a new Intel standard then "assume control of things" trick yet again.

In the last week I have seen Intel going over to ARM tech, going over to IBM tech, using AMD's new SOC tech all of which are complete conflicting competitor packages.

Intel has joined FOSS and joined Linux and done all sorts of strange miraculous things all in this past week ---- all the while the Intel vendor/builder chain is busy selling off all existing Intel based pre-built units just as fast as they can.

Do you sniff some panicky Intel churning going on?

Here is the bottom line, Intel simply isn't the biggest dog anymore, and if Qualcomm mates up with Broadcomm guess who rules computing going on out into the future.  

Intel certainly isn't ruling anything any more unless somebody is stupid enough to let them take control of their IP and standards (and by that I mean ARM, FOSS, Linux, AMD, IBM, etc etc)


====================================================


Intel has just "rewritten" the DynamIQ standard to do it Intel's way.    Oh, they haven't really written the standard, they have just "announced it" that they plan to write a new standard.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #817 - 11/06/17 at 08:20:36
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/broadcom-makes-a-130-billion-offer-to-buy-qualcom
m.html

Broadcom is offering to buy Qualcomm for $140 billion (although, as Bloomberg notes, the acquisition would include $25 billion of debt, which makes this more of a $105 billion deal).

Qualcomm, meanwhile, is in the process of finishing up a deal to acquire NXP Semiconductors. Broadcom says its offer is good whether that deal closes or not.

Qualcomm, meanwhile, isn’t saying much about Broadcom’s offer yet. The company put out a statement saying that it “today confirmed that it has received a non-binding, unsolicited proposal from Broadcom Limited.”

Basically, the Qualcomm board of directors will look at the offer and decide how to respond… although Bloomberg’s sources say that Qualcomm officials will reject the deal, arguing that the Broadcom offer is too low.

Personally, I find it interesting that the offer comes at a time when Qualcomm is one of the dominant players in the smartphone space… but the company is also poised to become a player in the PC market. Microsoft, Qualcomm, and PC makers have been working together to develop Windows devices that are powered by Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors. The first devices in this new category could ship by the end of the year, and the idea is to offer low-power, always-connected computers that run full-fledged Windows software and offer long battery life.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #818 - 11/06/17 at 08:40:30
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/intel-launch-laptop-chip-amd-radeon-graphics.html


Read this for an example of Intel just making stuff up on the fly, putting out a power point slide and "being in charge" all over again.



Once again, there is no real integration, just a couple of separate competitor products slammed on to a daughter board along with an Intel CPU.

But that is all that Intel has to offer.   A BS powerpoint slide.    Look to see Qualcomm 835 and more modern chipsets move on into laptop space and take over, shortly, next year (assuming Microsoft can keep up any at all on the OS programming side of things).


Also note that ARM (Mediatek) and Google have now begun distributing Chipset Specific ARM DynamIQ packages that include the current applicable Android release, all being shipped at the same time that the Mediatek SOC trays ship from TSMC.    

You are now getting a complete turn key set up now, taped right on the Mediatek SOC trays.    This makes it painless for the phone makers to keep up during this critical phase in period. Mediatek's little guy customers just need to follow the program as lined out on the Data Sheets.

Realize that the Huawei booster tricks have now moved into full distribution mode now from Mediatek and Google, and all that 20x AI process improvement stuff is moving into the main stream starting right now.

Intel is looking at a world of hurt, as the "future stream" has now parted ways and is flowing around them and is moving forward for both Android phones, Android phone PCs and Chromebooks.

And if Mickey is smart, they will get with the program and support these new ARM SOCs with a real, native Win 10 ARM just as fast as they can.    

So far Mickey can't even begin to keep up though, way too much "not invented here" porky fat and pure Mickey "slow" is getting in the way.



==================================================



2018 will be the year of the fast memory backed AI "adder block" being slapped on to existing SoC designs, giving 20x improvements on a growing list of functions.

This will lead to an "age of benchmark BS" -- with the existing traditional old benchmarks being the first things "AI optimized" and totally blown away.   Us poor end users will not be able to sort "brown vapor" from real progress by just looking at performance benchmarking tables until a new set of benchmarks (built specifically for the AI world) are going to have to be created.

Isn't it all just cheating?   Yes and no, optimized features really will run 20 TIMES faster, but not your entire device, making the progress kinda sorta REAL as long as you keep to the optimized features.

"% that is AI optimized" may be as good a bench mark as we can come up with in 2018.

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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 14:47:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #819 - 11/08/17 at 07:03:33
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/first-look-intel-amd-chip-wild-allegedly.html


Yep, it's Intel alright --- looky at all the additional crap required on the motherboard (all needed just to make it work)

https://liliputing.com/2017/11/benchmarks-leak-intels-new-cpus-amd-graphics.html


https://liliputing.com/2017/11/first-look-intel-amd-chip-wild-allegedly.html


We got some numbers on the new quad-core Intel processors based on the company’s Kaby Lake architecture paired with a custom AMD Radeon graphics processor (with 24 compute units and 1536 stream processors). The result is two processors that should be able to outperform any Intel mobile chips with integrated Intel HD graphics… but which should (at least theoretically) consume less power than a typical laptop with an Intel processor and discrete graphics.

Tweaktown notes that the Core i7-8809G seems to have about 3.3 TFLOPs of total raw compute performance, which is about half of what you’d get with an Xbox One X game console. So if you want a 4K gaming machine, you’re probably better off building your own desktop or buying a high-end console. But that’s still pretty impressive for a laptop-class processor.


So, Intel really wanted AMD's graphics chipset not only because it is better than what Intel has graphically (by a country mile) but because AMD Graphics has integrated AI capabilities that Intel completely lacks at this point in time.

Note that all the speed increase and the lowered power requirements comes from the AMD graphics chipset, and that Intel actually brings nothing of consequence to the party.   Indeed, the stock AMD console chipsets (with built-in AMD processor) does TWICE AS GOOD as the Intel BS mash up.   Also note that the plan is to TOTALLY NOT USE the Intel On-Board Graphics that is about half of the Intel daughter board arrangement.

Marketing, Intel style -- make a brand new hot mess and claim it is twice as good (compared to your own pitiful BS from last year).    AMD Console boxes from last year are right now TWICE AS GOOD as your new hot mess, but don't point that out, Intel, keep that little bit a deep dark secret.

AMD is getting ready to put out  their next wave of fully integrated laptop SOC chipsets -- guess what they are looking to trounce upon out of the gate very very decidedly.

All this "doubling this" and "twice as good as that" is REALLY JUST ABOUT MEANINGLESS during this AI phase in time span, as 20 TIMES improvement ranging up to 50 TIMES improvement for AI learned/executed items is out there on the table for next year's 2018 time frame.
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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 14:50:10 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #820 - 11/08/17 at 18:17:43
 
 
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12017/intel-to-develop-discrete-gpus-hires-raj...

Well, it didn't take very long for Intel to go back to being Intel.

Immediately after "announcing" their new AMD based (somewhat bastardized conglomerated "laptop daughterboard contraption deal")  using an existing Intel CPU and an AMD Graphics Array (with AI built in) Intel has now immediately broken ranks, trashed the just born deal and has stolen AMD's Graphics Designer into Intel employment and Intel has now announced they now lead the world in GRAPHICS ARRAY DESIGN.

Ha !

"On Monday, Intel announced that it had penned a deal with AMD to have the latter provide a discrete GPU to be integrated onto a future Intel SoC. On Tuesday, AMD announced that their chief GPU architect, Raja Koduri, was leaving the company. Now today the saga continues, as Intel is announcing that they have hired Raja Koduri to serve as their own GPU chief architect. And Raja's task will not be a small one; with his hire, Intel will be developing their own high-end discrete GPUs.

Starting from the top and following yesterday’s formal resignation from AMD, Raja Koduri has jumped ship to Intel, where he will be serving as a Senior VP for the company, overseeing the new Core and Visual Computing group. As a chief architect and general manager, Intel is tasking Raja with significantly expanding their GPU business, particularly as the company re-enters the discrete GPU field. Raja of course has a long history in the GPU space as a leader in GPU architecture, serving as the manager of AMD’s graphics business twice, and in between AMD stints serving as the director of graphics architecture on Apple’s GPU team."


 Please excuse me if I look a bit constipated -- I just got indoctrinated as a new vice-president by the entire 24 man Board of Directors -- I now personally know what "Intel Inside" REALLY REALLY means on a corporate level  .....

Intel is wanting to strongly signal a wish or an intent -- it does not mean they can really pull it off by just hiring one key player away from AMD.    It certainly does not mean it will be done in one to two years in any case considering the glacial rate at which Intel innovates of late.  

Intel has taken a dump on AMD's head again, certainly, but AMD has had Intel crap on their head before, it isn't news that Intel will shite all over a business partner if they see any advantage for them at all in taking a vertical dump at your geographic location.

Intel wants Wall Street to believe they are now ready to go take on Nvidia and Automotive AI.    Ha!  
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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 14:51:10 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #821 - 11/09/17 at 02:55:36
 
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/245496-qualcomm-announces-partnership-m...



Qualcomm just shipped the first REAL production lots of this huge ARM server chip -- 24 to 48 core sets --  ARM v8 64 bit -- DynamIQ compatible.  Currently built by Samsung at 10nm lithography with plans to drop on down to 7nm from TSMC later on next year in 2018 no less.  

Seems like good 'ol Intel is growing them some serious DynamIQ competition in every single computing niche that they have ever owned.

The "chip thickness" shown is lots and lots of stacked local fast access memory, the 48 core sets in the center all have lots of fast L3 cache memory immediately available to them on the chip die itself.

Microsoft, Google and Amazon are the first buyers of these very first lots of trial chips -- the inherent ARM energy savings over Intel products is a really big thing, don't cha know ......

Driving these companies is a desire to cut energy costs and make better use of power in their data centers.

"The limiting factor is always how much power you can get in the building," Gavrielov of Xilinx said. "If you can come up with a low-power solution, that will be very attractive to them."




===================================================



Articles I have read recently mention that this grouping of early subscribers are all part of a "NO INTEL INSIDE" cooperative standards group who are VERY VERY tired of being price gouged by Intel all the time.

These very first Qualcomm / Samsung production  lots shown above are being sold at a "reasonable and repeatable profit level" for only around $2,000 per chipset.    When TSMC begins to crank them out in bulk at 7nm then the core counts per wafer will go up by over 30%,  AND simply because of this simple silicon die size/population savings the chipsets will actually get CHEAPER, not more expensive.  



If you price this level of performance at roughly $1750 and suddenly you will have a HUGE upper end computing revolution going on.

Yep, the existing Intel Xenon based systems will lack a third of the ARM core count and LACK ALL THE BUILT IN AI CAPABILITIES (and also will burn WAY WAY more power and required large built in place cooling systems of industrial size) plus these existing Intel Xenons cost a HUGELY INFLATED / GOUGY ~ $19,998 each right now.

Shocked    yep, 10 times more $$$$ cost gets you so much less from good 'ol price gougy Intel.

Intel, can we predict your "price gouging tricks" are going to be ending sometimes soon, huh, as folks roll away from you on the top end  ?????

And yes, because these ARM super server chipsets only cost 2 grand each some wild assed PC enthusiasts or another will be building themselves up some sort of home brewed "supercomputer rigs" out of these new processors starting later on this Christmas season when the very first enthusiast level wave soldered ARM Centriq ball socket ARM "Falcor" motherboards finally do come out into the light of day ......

What's neat is the new ARM super server chipsets runs on good 'ol normal server softwares, both Linux based and Windows Server based stuff all runs great right out of the box.    Both MS and Intel have very recently DECLARED and made lots of noises about being "FOSS" and "LInux Supporters" now, so they can't be raising any cain and 'a going to sue somebody over them being FOSS supporters, now can they?      Roll Eyes


==================================================


Centriq processors (4 sku's now) will outperform the equivalent Intel Xenons at a 2-3x performance level, depending on which ones you are talking about.    AT LEAST Twice as fast and up to 10 times cheaper to buy and ranging from 6-10 times more ENERGY EFFICIENT to run .....  smells like a revolution brewing.

Feelin' that brand new beeg one kissing your shorts yet, INTEL ?????



====================================================



Intel feels a cool breeze 'a blowing on their bare buttocks --- someone is shipping that first "enthusiast" Centriq motherboard as of TODAY no less.




This is obviously a serious server board, considering it holds so many many high speed memory channels (11 slots / 32 lanes worth) that can be filled with fast server memory.


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« Last Edit: 11/15/17 at 13:18:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #822 - 11/11/17 at 12:34:24
 




Doing it ARM DynamIQ style ........

Qualcomm uses ARM DynamIQ tech to put it all into the chip core itself , with dedicated video and I/0 done per core, with massive but tiny redundancy taking care of any local loading and I/O issues.    A planning council was done for this chip months ago and all implementation details were worked out by the group and THE OPERATING SYSTEMS SOFTWARE was refined in advance for this arrangement.



vs            ============================================================




3.3 TFLOPs of "duplicative useless" computing


Doing it all Intel old school kludgy "after the fact" style .........      

Copy the entire CPU chipset over twice, one Intel CPU complete and one AMD CPU complete, then mate the two dissimilar complete with on board graphics CPUs up to a single very large powerful AMD Graphics Core Array that is already an integrated part of the AMD Chipset.   Totally ignore the weak arsed Intel graphics unit built into the Intel system as you don't plan to use it (but you still have to pay for it).  

Now pay for all the required I/O support pieces for the multiple redundant Intel and AMD CPU sets and then figure out AFTER THE FACT how to get them to work together on the same Daughter and Motherboards ......     Tongue    

Think you got hot bubbly compatibility issues mebbe just a roiling up out of this hot unplanned mess ????    (Microsoft never planned up front to support this 2 CPU kludge, btw.)    Think somebody is gonna wanna get paid for EACH ONE OF THE 3 complete processor sets ????    (and then paid for all them required hook up bits and pieces on the motherboard, too)



Cheesy



Think on it a bit  ----  Qualcomm has a whole range of ARM based stuff they can do now, going up from a phone level, to a Chromebook / laptop level, on up to a PC level, ranging on up to a super server level.

Stuff with a cost savings that is running up to 10 times better and a speed improvement of 2-3x better (soon ramping up to 20x better with the AI tricks maturing day by day by day).  

To Intel, this is pure competitive hell come to Earth to visit them.   Time for Intel to pull out the bag of dirty tricks and try out a few of those nasty tricks on Qualcomm and Samsung to attempt to find some "distraction factor" to slow the bad boys down.....

Realizing that the existing Samsung and Qualcomm pair up (foundry and chip designer) are both now both able at this time to attack Intel successfully at a very fundamental level, understand that the recent Broadcom take over bid may simply be a disruptive corporate attack on Qualcomm orchestrated by some other, left hand hidden Intel partners.

If so, look to see actions taken by the existing "anti-Intel" standards consortium to actively promote some more (somewhat less complex) versions of the DynamIQ server chipset, mounting Mali G72 graphics (or possibly even a AMD Graphics Array as AMD is a part of the group already) and remember AMD is still smarting from that latest Intel bowl movement that Intel took all over their head last week).

And, even if Qualcomm did get itself sidelined by a Broadcom take over bid, Samsung by itself currently both designs and builds its own chipsets anyway.   As does Mediatek and Huawei .....

Plus, if ARM designed itself up a turn key reference style PC desktop chipset, anyone could build a PC level ARM chipset using TSMC as the low cost foundry just by building out the ARM reference design.    The only thing that would be required would be a somewhat stronger Mali Graphics GPU block design, one that is very tightly integrated with a much larger stronger AI graphics block array.   This is the path I predict will take place once Mickey finishes the Windows software.

AMD has "gone ahead" and shown us how to do it, and AMD has a much larger stronger AI graphics block array than Nvidia's current "CPU less" version does.

But make no mistake, Nvidia has also shown us that the old style Intel type CPU portion is far less important than the many many shader style cores of a massively complex GPU based processor as both Nvidia and Apple both now use their GPU style shader cores to do all normal math calculations, etc. etc.    CISC CPU's will become less and less important over time.

And remember that AI itself runs off the GPU style shader core arrays in their massive massive numbers ....

Self driving cars currently do ALL their calculations off the large amounts of graphics shader cores that they contain .....

So, what we use for math calculations and actually call the "computer" is busy changing up on us as we speak.....
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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 15:06:50 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #823 - 11/12/17 at 03:26:52
 

https://hothardware.com/news/qualcomm-centriq-2400-cloudfare-benchmarks





As we get ready to get into the numbers, I have to communicate an interesting little discovery I made -- to test the REAL 46 core Qualcomm ARM chipset against REAL Intel competitive products the 46 core Qualcomm ARM chipset had to go up against a motherboard mounting TWO of the much more expensive Intel processors -- and it still beat them handily in all but one test scenario.  

The one Intel win took place because the test was not optimized for the many many cored ARM competitor, but the test apparently stopped counting "individual core contributions" when the "doubled" (two mounted processors) Intel core count limit was reached ......




Having reviewed the specs, here is an overview of the test results .....   note that the results are done and shown on two generations of Intel server processors, just to make sure all the current shipping Intel lithography generations have a chance to show their "advantages" (or not as the case may be).




And here is the Gzip compression testing which did use all cores correctly.




Here is the Brotli testing that showed issues with "not enough Intel cores available to do test".

  interpolation is required


SO WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN ???
..... or why is Intel sticking its hand so deeply into the bag of dirty tricks at this early junction ????

"At the SoC level, Falkor wins big time," writes Cloudflare's Vlad Krasnov. "It is only marginally slower than Skylake at an RSA2048 signature, and only because RSA2048 does not have an optimized implementation for ARM. The ECDSA performance is ridiculously fast. A single Centriq chip can satisfy the ECDSA needs of almost any company in the world."

When it comes to on-the-fly dynamic and static web content compression like the industry-standard GZip or Googles more recent Brotli algorithm, in both benchmarks, Centriq really shows its muscle dominating across the board with Gzip, and winning nearly every test with Brotli compression.

In the end, Cloudflare feels that Qualcomm has a potential winner on its hands, especially with regards to multithreaded workloads. Intel's position of strength in the server market allows it to charge a premium for its Xeon processors, but that is countered by the lower cost and low power consumption for Centriq.

"The largest win by far for Falkor is the low power consumption. Although it has a TDP of 120W, during my tests it never went above 89W (for the go benchmark), said Krasnov. "In comparison Skylake and Broadwell both went over 160W, while the TDP of the two CPUs is 170W."

Cloudflare sounds fairly confident that Qualcomm Centriq will only get better with time as more applications are optimized to take advantage of its ARMv8 64-bit architecture.


Basically, ARM server chipset testing is showing a 10x price advantage for ARM DynamIQ, requires half the processor count of the Intel products to do the same workloads, runs up to twice as fast while doing it (while not optimized at all at this stage of things, too) and the ARM processor draws half the power Intel needs while doing it.

Intel is toast and Intel knows it.    Dirty tricks and more dirty tricks is all they have left in their little black bag .....

Tongue

And this testing does not take into effect the 20x-50x AI advantage that is rolling into play as we speak .....
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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 05:36:09 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #824 - 11/12/17 at 05:41:50
 

Should it surprise you that as various folks tally up their short lists of "hidden consortium" folks behind the Broadcom bid to buy out Qualcomm (and shut down the Qualcomm DynamIQ innovations and stop the Qualcomm flow of competitive violation lawsuits) that the names of "Apple" and "Intel" show up right up at the top of each of the lists the various folks are putting together.

Qualcomm has many enemies but it has also been a part of many consortiums that have made/are making a lot of progress with ARM DynamIQ designs of late.

Both Apple and Intel need that Qualcomm based progress to slow down greatly or to STOP at once, before it eventually kills them both.

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« Last Edit: 11/12/17 at 14:38:20 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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