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Android/Chrome/Fuchsia vs Windows/Polaris (Read 15390 times)
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #795 - 10/15/17 at 10:26:48
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/15/17 at 10:19:37:
I didn't know a Stirling engine was able to accomplish anything more than a science project.


Take a look ..... these are 2-5 sealed systems using multiple Sterling engines to generate the electricity that runs the propeller and the rest of the sub's various systems.

http://www.stirlingengines.org.uk/manufact/manf/misc/subm.html
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« Last Edit: 10/15/17 at 14:16:15 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #796 - 10/15/17 at 12:03:02
 
Cut a sub in two... how fun..

I never considered a series hook up.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #797 - 10/15/17 at 14:13:08
 

I find it interesting that the Swedes hated nuclear enough to cut it out of an existing ship (along with the entire hot compartment complete) and replace that chunk of the sub with a relatively larger green power plant.   I see some Rossi a headed that way during the next major refurb overhaul build  === cheaper, cleaner, QUIETER and better ......

Ditto for diesel train engines, substation sized power plants, etc. etc.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #798 - 10/16/17 at 09:16:28
 

Apple enthusiasts judge the A-11 Bionic chipset and the Apple iPhone 8 to be a "skip" generation phone.   It is not selling through worth doodly and Apple is cancelling large portions of the parts orders to build it.  

Folks are buying other phones if they have to get one, as $850 for a notably "better" UNLOCKED Huawei Mate 10 simply is a much better buy than an $1100 Apple A-11 (after you buy the required bells, cases, and whistles and gimcracks -- then go lock yourself into a very expensive exclusive phone plan for two years)

Huawei bumps APPLE out of the #2 spot

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Dock-for-Huawei-Mate-10-allows-it-to-be-used-...

Huawei is now the second largest smartphone manufacturer in the world, behind only Samsung. The Huawei Mate 10 could really help Huawei's market share if the device is as awesome as it appears to be. Powered by the home grown Kirin 970 chipset, which will include a dedicated AI chip, the Mate 10 can apparently be used as a PC with a large screened smart TV as a display. Miracast will be the conduit that connects the phone to a smart TV.

Early word is that Qualcomm/Samsung's Snapdragon 835 is NOT THE HOTTEST CHIP ANY MORE, NOR IS THE APPLE A-11 BIONIC either.

Huawei just lapped the both of them, supposedly.    This was not an unexpected thing, so you can expect both Apple and Samsung to come out with their next generation chipsets ASAP.    Apple wants their pride of place back and Samsung is now gunning to beat Apples's next out of the gate A-12 Bionic chipset as their next Samsung "to do list" item.

Huawei has raised the bar for the both of them, and Mediatek has come out with a very canny,  much stronger middle of the road chipset intended to re-absorb all the people wishing to avoid the $1,000 primo phone pissing contests.

Two days later, Qualcomm comes out with their own much stronger middle of the road chipset intended to re-absorb all the people thinking about jumping ship to Mediatek's strong middle of the road chip.   Only issue is price, the Qualcomm costs way more than the Mediatek, but has some nicer features for all that extra money.

In both cases, the best middle of the road chipset is now similar in raw power to last year's primo chipsets, but using better modems, more/better memory, etc to actually perform a little better than last year's primo phones did .......


===================================================


When the fluff settles, you are going to have a crop of 3 very powerful primo chipsets (and some potential almost as good also-rans), each well able to run a laptop experience using Win 10, should MS actually pull their finger out of their nose sometimes next year and actually finish that Win 10 on ARM effort up completely.

Look to see Google come out with Chromebook AI, in this same time frame, intending to quietly one up on MS's best Win 10 effort to date.


===================================================


What can AI operating on a cell phone do, right now?

This is a fair question as nobody has really optimized any apps for AI yet.    

Even so, an Android AI equipped Android phone can already do the following, right now.

https://liliputing.com/2017/10/google-pixel-2-can-id-17000-songs-without-an-inte
rnet-connection.html

How this is, I cannot say as no phone I know can hold 17,000 songs ---- or can it?    

I think that the new AI phones CAN hold a song index of some sort and a keep a source list of where to find the songs on the web for free.    I bet after some learning, your phone will download the best of the stuff you'd might be interested in into a temp buffer, and then recommend that stuff to you upon request.

As long as the system can stay out in front of you, you'd think it was all "instantaneous".


===================================================


Microsoft and Intel Marketing

Both of the old school boys are seeking relevance any way they can.  For example, Intel buys a little company that can't get their Quantum processor to work and suddenly they are announcing a brand new 17 qubit quantum processor that will be ready "soon".

Today Intel announce a graphics based AI processor that another purchased failed start up has put together, that Intel will begin making production runs of real "soon".      (it runs off of Nvidia graphics core technology, so that ain't happening at all unless somebody pays Nvidia some REALLY BIG licensing fees)

Microsoft announces Win 10 on ARM, that it is coming real soon, and also references Intel's promised AI chipset in the same sound bite so the reader is lead to assume the new Intel purchase was working in the ARM world instead of the x86 world but that it will be ready "real soon" ----  and then again having the reader once again assume it will be running Win 10 ARM when it comes.        multiple "assumes" lead you astray, mostly

Layers and layers of skillful brown vapor "assumptions" on top of a partially fertile seed taken from a "sold itself" company.   With the husbandmen being some folks who couldn't get it to grow even if somebody else sprouted a 100% good seed for them.


==================================================


Difference between Google, Linaro, ARM and the FOSS guys --- they don't pre-announce anything for much, for example ARM won't even announce new processor families until the first production is ready to SHIP in a finished product to distribution from one of their partners.

When Google screws up, they just chop the project, never having made a bunch of promises or noise over it that leaves any kind of bad smell in the air.
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« Last Edit: 10/21/17 at 17:08:41 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #799 - 10/16/17 at 09:23:44
 
My first experience with Samsung was the cash registers about 25 years ago. They were dependable enough,just not too sophisticated. That changed quickly.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #800 - 10/18/17 at 14:04:58
 
   
https://liliputing.com/2017/10/samsungs-latest-android-phones-can-also-linux-des
ktops.html



Samsung says it’s developing an app called Linux on Galaxy that will let you load a DeX-compatible Linux environment. In other words, your Android phone could also be your GNU/Linux desktop PC.

Developers have been finding ways to load Linux distributions on Android phones for years. But Linux on Galaxy is different in a few ways.

First, it’s an experience that’s built and supported by the company that makes the phone. Second, it’s designed to work with a DeX station, which means it’s optimized for desktop usage. And third, today’s top phones have processors powerful enough to run Windows 10, so they should be able to handle desktop operating systems like Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora


Samsung has it's DeX station running a modified version of of Android 7 for over a year now.   Now Android 8.0 is here and the same Android / Linux tricks are now even more accessible to all phones / phone makers.  

Samsung likes to do it better, so working off the DeX station as a starting point they now have a full Linux Distro that runs off the phone doing some of the old Ubuntu simo-boot tricks so the OS can be either / or at will.

Tongue

Ol Mickey isn't happy about this development, as Linux already has all sorts of free software, some quite good, that all costs you NOTHING to install and all future upgrades are free too.
 
Tongue

Mickey fully intended to use and "integrate/support" all that good software and charge money for the support package since they lost their own third party programmer base this past year when they changed up Win 10 so often that all of their out of house software writers all gave up on Windows 10 in pure aggravation & frustration.   Now Samsung comes along to give it all away in a nice clean support package (or charge less than half of what Mickey charges, take your pick)

So Mickey has just now became a key Leadership Council Member of the Linux Foundation this past month but has not yet declared all their existing real stuff to be free and open source (FOSS) just yet.

And in a few months when Mickey finally finishes up their custom rip off of all Open Source Android and x86 drivers, then you can count on the resulting Mickey Win 10 on ARM OS becoming FOSS just as quickly as the necessary evidence can be put together by lawyers and presented in a court case .....  unless Mickey voluntarily goes ahead and goes 100% FOSS on the OS before then and just charges a relatively lot of support dollars for just their own relatively small amount of unique App software bits and pieces mixed in with a heapin' helping of that free FOSS stuff.

Cheesy       ...... Red Hat has done it this way for the last longest and they get along just fine .....
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« Last Edit: 10/22/17 at 00:22:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #801 - 10/19/17 at 02:37:03
 

Today, some small news.

Samsung laps Intel yet again, this time by two generations not just one.   Yep, 8nm Samsung is shipping right now and Intel still doesn't have anything 14nm chipset that works.

Samsung laps 14nm Intel by two full lithography generational levels, 10nm and 8nm.   If Intel manages to stay stuck on 14nm for another 6 months, that lap count could go up to 3 - 4 full generations as TSMC's and Samsung's 5nm and 7nm are coming out VERY soon.

EVERYBODY else is at 10nm and is busy kicking down on their next level lower.

Intel is deserving all the abuse anyone wishes to heap on them at this point.    
yep, it really is the same old lighthouse I've been showing you for 4 and a half years now -- man that ice is getting really really thick now.

 Can you tell which side of the lighthouse the lightkeeper likes to pee from?

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« Last Edit: 10/22/17 at 00:25:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #802 - 10/19/17 at 02:56:33
 
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/17/16488414/intel-ai-chips-ne...

Intel unveils new family of AI chips to take on Nvidia’s GPUs     ha !






When the AI boom came a-knocking, Intel wasn’t around to answer the call. Now, the company is attempting to reassert its authority in the silicon business by unveiling a new family of chips designed especially for artificial intelligence: the Intel Nervana Neural Network Processor family, or NNP for short.

The NNP family is meant as a response to the needs of machine learning, and is destined for the data center, not your PC. Intel’s CPUs may still be a stalwart of server stacks (by some estimates, it has a 96 percent market share in data centers), but the workloads of contemporary AI are much better served by the graphical processors or GPUs coming from firms like Nvidia and ARM. Consequently, demand for these companies’ chips has skyrocketed. (Nvidia’s revenue is up 56 percent year on year.) Google has got in on the action, designing its own silicon named the Tensor Processing Unit to power its cloud computing business, while new firms like the UK-based Graphcore are also rushing to fill the gap.

Intel’s response has been to buy up AI hardware talent. It purchased vision specialist Mobileye this March; the chipmaker Movidius (the firm responsible for the silicon in DJI’s autonomous drones) last September; and deep learning startup Nervana Systems in August 2016. Since then, it’s been busy teasing this line Neural Network Processors, which were previously known under the codename “Lake Crest.” The NNP chips are a direct result of its Nervana acquisition and fold in the company’s expertise to achieve “faster training time for deep learning models.” (Intel says it also took advice from Facebook on the chip’s design — but didn’t give much detail.)

But how much faster exactly? Intel isn’t saying. While Google touted the launch of its latest-generation TPU chips by publishing head-to-head tests against rival hardware, Intel will only say that it’s on track to meet its goal of improving deep learning training speeds by 100 times by 2020. The company is similarly vague on when its NNP chips will be available to customers, though perhaps more details will leak out today. Some time before the end of the year in limited quantities is the expectation.



Yes, Intel spent good money to buy this 200nm lithography "4 chips on a daughterboard" monstrosity that requires its own complete motherboard worth of supporting "excetera" stuff just so they could say they had a really functional (but slow as dog shite) AI processor.  

Intel was catching too much crap for showing off things THAT DID NOT WORK AT ALL -- so they bought themselves something that does work ......
 
Tongue  (but just look at it --- it is glacially slow compared to modern ARM, AMD or Nvidia combined AI processor sets and the programming used for it is really PRE-historic compared to modern ARM standards).

So, Intel can speed this thing up 100 times and it STILL won't be competitive .....     ..... just some more brown vapor double talk .....


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« Last Edit: 10/19/17 at 04:38:33 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #803 - 10/19/17 at 08:46:18
 
One would have to assume that their estimate was based on converting the 200nm lith to 10nm lith
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #804 - 10/19/17 at 13:58:36
 

Yep, assuming Intel actually can get their 10nm stuff to work right sometimes fairly soon.

Sad thing is that the ARM leaders will be at 7nm FinFET verging on the edge of 5nm Gate All Around by the time that happens.

They will also be slinging full AI implementations at those very low lithography levels.   Intel will never catch up, never.

Microsoft is currently making a really big thing out of using full sized (large) old style laptop batteries to drive modern cell phone based ARM chipped laptop designs (Snapdragon 835 being specific) for days and days and days on a single charge ---- but duh, Chromebooks have been doing this same trick for YEARS now and have actually decreased both the size and the voltage of the Chromebook's batteries to be only a day and a half of run time as the best fit of needs to technology.   Chromebooks really don't feel the extra battery weight that never gets used is an efficient use of resources, it is just waste, muerta, just more sunk cost and more dead weight to carry around with you.

Make no mistake, Win 10 ARM is still a tremendous bloated porker compared to Chromebooks, however, it is a lot better than it used to be.   Credit given where credit is due.   (a small amount of credit is due)

But this does not mean using cheap BS brown vapor MS marketing tricks should rule the day either.   Simply because you are locked into an old style, huge, high voltage battery set because of your continuing use of high voltage old style everything else does not mean you get to claim it as a "world beating feature" .....

Google is waiting for MS to get completely and firmly out on the level playing field and then Chromebook AI will get trotted out with some large 20x-30x multiple of throughput increases to blow MS's best efforts with Snapdragon 835 way way way on off into the weeds.   To get the sniff of it, watch the first AI integrated phone chips (Kirin 970, etc) to get a feel for the throughput advantages that Chromebook AI will have when it gets here.

MS will then HAVE to fairly quickly follow the world on over to run on generic ARM AI / DynamIQ based chipsets and that spells the end for Intel as they got NOTHING to compete against that.   Nothing.   Nada.   Zip.

Google can easily do this next year because they can put the AI advantages right on deep inside the ChromeOS and deep into the vendor's AI implementations and they can do this across the board because ARM/LENARO keeps the DynamIQ standards sets for everybody.    

And if it is part of the base standard, then EVERYBODY can do it ......  automatically.

(And guess what, recent commitments to the ChromeOS GIT hub repositories show that this sort of work has already begun).

Microsoft Win 10 ARM as currently proposed is actually running an emulated layered x386 based system and it can't ever take full advantage of all the Google ARM natural AI tricks until MS rewrites itself as a full natural ARM DynamIQ natural operating system.   This will take them about a year and a bit to do (and to maybe have to suffer through at least one Intel lawsuit which will take about 2 years to resolve).  

This is lots of time for ARM DynamIQ to forge on ahead into areas far far beyond Wintel's wildest dreams.   This means MS gets to try to compete against ARM as a whole, sadly something they will lose at badly.

So, we note that larger and larger AI processing blocks are already going into the various newer ARM AI chips as part of the ARM DynamIQ AI standard, and then there are those brand new "extra" separate AI booster blocks that are now part of the DynamIQ standard that can raise throughputs still way higher, up to levels we have simply never seen before.

Next year, it all gets real and it all gets REVEALED .....

Wink     Speaking of "reveal" Google has just admitted to sneaking an AI block into the Pixel 2 Plus phone, to help out with camera and graphics tasks.


===================================================


http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/huawei-kirin-970-soc-launched-her...



p://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/huawei-kirin-970-soc-launched-heres-...


There is a complex cross vendor SOC performance comparison chart in here that won't cut and paste to our list's YaBB system, so you gotta click to go here to take a look at it.


http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/huawei-kirin-970-soc-launched-her...

"The Kirin 970 chipset is powered by an octa-core CPU built using 10 nm fabrication process. Huawei has also added a 12-core GPU in the package to ensure that the device can perform graphics-intensive AI jobs without any problem.

The company is touting massive performance gains in AI-processing related jobs because of the presence of the dedicated NPU. According to the company, the NPU results in 25x improvement of performance and 50x improvement in efficiency. The best part about this NPU is that developers can use the NPU for their 3rd-party applications using the Kirin AI API making Kirin 970 ‘open platforms for mobile AI’. The SoC packs about 5 billion transistors. The company announced that Kirin 970 will debut on 16 October with Huawei Mate 10.

With the launch of this SoC, we thought that this is the right time to compare the flagship mobile SoCs from leading mobile manufacturers. We have taken the major mobile SoCs in the market like Snapdragon 835 by Qualcomm, Apple A10X Fusion, Samsung Exynos 9 Series (8895) and Helio X30 by MediaTek in addition to Huawei Kirin 970.

One thing to note here is that the performance of the mobile SoC varies significantly on what kind of hardware configuration, operating system, and processor layout is employed by the OEM along with the built in SOC cooling facility. Due to such a comprehensive list of variables, we are only taking in account the specification of SoC on paper. In addition, a number of companies especially Apple have not specified some of the details about their SoC implementation. Here is how Huawei's Kirin 970 stacks against the competition."



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« Last Edit: 10/21/17 at 17:17:01 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #805 - 10/19/17 at 14:54:24
 

Go back in your mind about a year ago, when Intel and MS first decided to lock down your PC hardware so you HAD to run their proprietary Wintel softwares and only their proprietary Wintel softwares.  

They intended to block out Linux and other FOSS softwares by any method they could use.

They first tried Bios level locks, but those quickly got worked around, then they tried dedicated nanny chips and those got worked around then they put it the block out deep deep into the Intel CPU hardware itself and wrote it into the system level Win 10 software such that the machine won't even post at boot time unless both pieces are present, thinking that finally locked out Linux to the ultimate degree.

https://liliputing.com/2017/10/purisms-linux-laptops-now-ship-intel-management-e
ngine-disabled.html

Read it and simply realize that the real final answer is going to be when you the consumer simply REFUSE to buy a locked down locked out machine, this action taken by you will force Intel and MS to stop their restrictive BS nonsense.

Or, better yet, simply shift over to a platform that doesn't do that sort of crap.

Prediction:   Win 10 ARM loses a great deal of that sort of stuff as the ARM boys are actually shipping a generic cell phone chipset with no intention of locking them down in any fashion at all (and thereby reducing the potential customer base for that chipset).

Plus, to the FOSS mindset the entire idea of "hardware lockdown" is complete ANATHEMA and arguably is hastening Intel's demise by force rolling Windows 10 users over to ARM chipsets.

Explain to me please, how MS and Intel want to be on the Linux Foundation Leadership Council when they are shipping locked down units right now with this anti-FOSS crap on it?

KICK THEM OFF THE LINUX COUNCIL until they pull their heads out of their asses.
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« Last Edit: 10/20/17 at 02:09:28 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #806 - 10/19/17 at 17:04:14
 

Fresh within the last hour ......

http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2017/10/intel_begins_layof...

Intel has begun notifying workers in its finance group that their jobs will be eliminated early next year, according to multiple employees familiar with the plans. The chipmaker had warned staff last summer that these cuts were coming, part of a broader plan to bring down spending.

Last year Intel whacked 15,000 people and declared to the world that they were leaving consumer electronics for greener IoT and database/server pastures, forever, never to return.

Those greener pastures turned out to have herds of aggressive ARM cattle already living on them, ARM cows with long wicked fast horns that gored Intel badly when Intel breezed in to "take over the world".   Intel got kicked out of the new promised land by these real world ARM competitors, mainly because Intel was so very very far from being a real competitor in those new ARM based worlds.   Totally pitiful, actually.

Intel then came limping back to Consumer Electronics land A FULL YEAR LATER, A FULL YEAR FURTHER BEHIND TECHNOLOGICALLY AND A FULL YEAR MORE "OUT OF DATE" ON ALL FRONTS and so far Intel has done nothing practical to improve on this miserable miserable sad state of things except cut tons and tons of people and buy more toy drone companies.

To cap it off, during the long one year Intel absence AMD had joined the ARM camp and completely disavowed their old x86 heritage.  

After having done an across the line DynamIQ ARM redesign AMD immediately began kicking Intel's butt badly by using their new ARM technologies and philosophies built at Global Foundries at several nanometer levels, but all of them were less than 14nm.   AMD and ARM have now taken ~25%~ of Intel's consumer "enthusiast gaming" market share in only 4 months as measured at that point in time .....

So, Intel begins to respond by adding extra cores to all their chipsets at 14nm, using the same amounts of the same sorts of memory so the net results are not really able to overcome the combined edge AMD had made for themselves using ARM design patterns at smaller lithography levels.    AMD is putting both graphics and light duty AI functions into their designs and selling them for 20-30% less than Intel does, no matter what Intel gives out for a price drop this week.

Intel also has NOT REALLY MET any of the lower AMD pricing, but apparently thinks they deserve 20%-50% extra just because they are "Intel Inside".

Tongue          This is mostly prideful "stupid" talking and this trick is losing market share for Intel week on week ......

Now Intel has got to go cut some 1,400 more people to appease Wall Street, and the ones that get let go this time are going to be the bean pickers themselves, as they add nothing to the bottom line (and they are still around to be cut as bean pickers never seem to cut their own jobs willingly).

These are core central key functional jobs, and it signals a company shrinkage that is both permanent and not likely recovered from.

You have heard the term "cut and build" before, right?   It is when you cut the ones you really don't need and add in the ones that will bring in some real money.

Intel is running around buying failing AI companies and buying not working Quantum computing companies and Intel is still chopping off all the rest of the remaining old key x86 support people, apparently by doing so functionally acknowledging that x86 business is already lost at this point in time.

Intel will send their next knee jerks signals (panic reactions) when MS starts the flow of ARM based Win 10 laptops -- trying to defend a "preeminence" that frankly no longer exists.  

The first Qualcomm 835 based Win 10 ARM laptop units will be attractive, but will be somewhat over priced.   They will still take an immediate 30%-50% market share, but this lost share will come from Wintel's own old product lines as that is what is going to happen naturally anyway.  

No one will want to buy old kudgy slow high voltage Intel tech any more.

The instant response from Google will be Chromebook AI and it will be crushingly fast.  MS will regroup Win 10 on Qualcomm's next AI based top dog SOC and, if they are smart, a couple of other vendor's top dog AI chipsets as well.  

HOWEVER, middle of the road ARM AI SOCs are really the key to MS surviving, really -- if Win 10 ARM runs well on these mid-range ARM AI SOCs then MS remains a player out into the future.   Run well on Mediatek and Rockchip, Microsoft, or you too will fade away ......

At this time if Intel still has nothing to put out on the playing field then they are done.   If they are desperate enough to sue MS (to make them pause in place) in an act of pure obstructionism then they are done.  

Linux will still be out there, clearly available and running on the ARM AI based SOCs better and cleaner and cheaper than Win 10 can do.    Chromebook AI will be looking better and better all the time and will still likely always be 25-30% cheaper than the current Win 10 machines.

The AI Chromebook will slowly become a serious player in business if Google doesn't get played by some contrived, arranged third party lawsuits again this time around.    

If some sort of x86 consortium forms to defend x86 by some sort of concerted trollish legal actions against Android or Linux, well then you will likely see Fuschia's Zircon crystal razor edge come out, slicing through these obstructions by a real threat of complete replacement.   Once people realize how fast "a built for AI" OS really is, it will gradually take over naturally anyway.

Within the next 10 years, big iron and the data farms will get replaced by many many times fewer Quantum computing boards (sitting around in vats of liquid nitrogen no less).   Your AI driven handheld local equipment will be able to communicate so freely through 5g and new and even better air and laser optical cable driven means that the superfast inter-device communications will never hit a slow spot any more no matter which local device you are using.


==================================================


HEY, Google did something really really new this time -- it keys into them owning their own phone company again and taking control of their own future pathway accordingly.   Without saying anything they augmented a "top of the line" Qualcomm SOC by adding in an external AI adder block that totally redid Qualcomm's vaunted Adreno 540 GPU/Camera output to make it completely world class and they ADDED AI functions to the Pixel 2 XL.  

Yep, the Pixel 2 XL is an AI augmented phone done by retrofit .....                  


                                                                                                    yeah, AI can do shite like that
                                                                                                                      Roll Eyes

Did they totally just say Qualcomm's current best SOC isn't nearly good enough?  Yep, they just did.  Not nearly good enough.

So, notice is served, HEY QUALCOMM if you don't keep up technically or get all bullheaded and prideful you may just wind up being "helped along" some by custom designed AI adder blocks.   Or else not used at all.

Roll Eyes     A lesser vendor, say Mediatek, that fully adheres to the DynamIQ standards can be easily magnified in power to beat the head dog's current SOC, should the head dog start balking at the leash and growling at people.   Or going too slow because fat dumb ol' Mickey holding on to the other end of the leash simply can't waddle fast enough to keep up with the crowd ....

And a stronger, quicker mid-line vendor, say like Huawei, that fully adheres to the DynamIQ standards can easily magnify itself in power to beat up the head dog's next newest "greatest SOC" by their own additional use of AI adder blocks -- which is what Huawei just did with the Kirin 970 and the Mate 10 XL PC / Phone.  

And they can do it again at the six months mid year point very cheaply and easily by just beefing up the memory and the external AI block.

See Huawei keep that #2 spot and start working on taking #1 if Qualcomm doesn't quit waiting around on Mickey to catch up / keep up.  

Samsung will now have to begin to rely on their own AI SoCs completely again as Qualcomm simply isn't bringing the best to the party any more and Samsung has to see a homegrown easier and cheaper pathway to stay in #1 position.


You can tell how fast things are evolving by Qualcomm's dropping the Snapdragon 835, then dropping the Snapdragon 836 Improved, then dropping Samsung Foundry (10nm) process completely by mid 2018 and then moving on to the 840 SOC on 7nm TSMC, then dropping it before it is actually built and going with the much much more complex and advanced 845 AI on 7nm TSMC all in the space of two-three-four months of current production planning change wave speeds.

Qualcomm sees what is happening, and has to realize they cannot keep up with the speed of the change wave while carrying 'ol Porky Slow Minded Mickey up on their shoulders.

Oh, and about old porky slow minded Mickey ---- they are jest simply shocked they can't get their favorite laptop folks to commit to building their "Chromebook beating" Win 10 ARM laptops using a 2016 designed Snapdragon 835 chipset, a chipset that was developmentally dropped by Qualcomm over six months ago.

..... keep up, Mickey, at least try to keep up .....
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« Last Edit: 10/22/17 at 01:19:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #807 - 10/30/17 at 03:59:14
 

Well, I done went all quiet for a week and a bit now because I was in the hospital after a simple outpatient prostrate TURP procedure which bled profusely and wouldn't stop.   Now I am home for a few days before getting a PAE procedure done that is supposed to stop the TURP from bleeding.   I really think current med school graduates do not really understand Warfarin (Cumadin) ie rat poison's use as a blood thinner for artificial heart valves.

So, here is a week and a half's worth of progress from Intel and MS.

First, Intel.   After running that 10nm line for at least SIX full trial lots at EXTREMELY high rejection rates  Intel is going to ship several different part numbers of the exact same SOC from a SIX LOT REJECTION POOL (a defect sorting job).   They were all intended to be the same first line chipset from the 2016 era, but they are now graded in groups of decreasing ability.    READ the REVIEWS on these 10nm chipsets  carefully as it is well known that the original 10nm lots did not perform even as good as the current 2016 year model 14nm Intel part numbers could do.

Also watch out because the several groups of down graded 10nm trial run sorted parts perform at even LESS than the now outdated original spec's (from TWO YEARS AGO) was supposed to do.    

What will happen is that laptop vendors will place orders for the good stuff and at the time they are scheduled to build they find out that only the sub-grades are available at all, so they will be forced to quietly use them and they WON"T WANT TO TELL YOU,  the actual end user,  about the last minute substitution.   Expect your 3 legged Intel dog to limp some......

Intel desperately needed a promised big headline this week AND they needed to move some of the mass of those failed Trial Run parts.    REMEMBER, THE DESIGN ON THESE THINGS IS TWO YEARS OLD AT THIS POINT IN TIME AND IS NOT COMPETITIVE TO ARM AT ALL in late 2017 time period, much less in 2018 when they actually really ship in real products as "Intel’s finest 10nm chips coming in 2017 (in small quantities)".

Buyer Beware, boys and girls, Buyer Beware.

https://liliputing.com/2017/10/intels-first-10nm-chips-coming-2017-small-quantit
ies.html

Intel’s first 10nm chips coming in 2017 (in small quantities)

Intel is finally getting ready to launch its first chips manufactured on a 10nm process. The company had planned to move to 10nm in 2016, but a series of setbacks have prevented that from happening.

That led to Intel basically blowing up its usual “tick tock” release schedule and sticking with 14nm for the past four chip generations, although each new model has had some enhancements and optimizations.

But as 2017 draws to a close, Intel CEO Brian Krzanich says the company is “on track to ship our first low-volume 10-nanometer part by the end of the year.”

Speaking during the company’s most recent earnings call, Krzanich said Intel plans to ramp up production in the first half of 2018, with “high volume and system availability in the second half of 2018.

In other words, the first 10nm chips from Intel are coming this year. But the processors, which are code-named “Cannon Lake,” will only be available in limited quantities and you may have to wait until mid-2018 at the soonest to walk into a store and by a PC powered by one of the new processors.

Oddly, Intel is expected to brand the chips as part of the 8th-gen Intel Core processor family, which already includes 14nm Kaby Lake Refresh chips for laptops and Coffee Lake processors for desktops.

It’s going to get even tougher to tell one Intel chip apart from another just by glancing at the name. There are usually clues in the model number, but you kind of need a decoder ring to decipher all the numbers and letters.


BUYER BEWARE, boys and girls, BUYER BEWARE    Don't buy a 10nm Intel anything until the next generation of parts is designed in 2019-2020 and built on a corrected Intel 10nm process, then watch those reviews to see if you are really getting anything AT ALL for the extra money.  

So far that is NOT TRUE AT ALL for anything 10nm from Intel.


===================================================


MS has let the progress wave go right on past them yet again, with their software all custom designed to fit the Qualcomm 835, now finding that the new Qualcomm 845 is what is now set up on all the production lines at Samsung which are running at capacity for next year's products.    NOTE: Samsung is keeping all the best tested 845 SoCs for their Galaxy S9 and the Galaxy Note 9 for next year and only passing on the lesser tested units to Qualcomm to sell to the general market.   Technically, Samsung has a lock on the first production lots (large production quantities) so the S9 family can come out as a world beater product.

Question becomes, can Mickey retune their clumsy, kluged together drivers for Win 10 for ARM over to Snapdragon 845 SOC fast enough to actually produce and ship something tangible before the next change wave crashes over their feet and runs on past them yet again  ?????
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« Last Edit: 10/30/17 at 15:34:49 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #808 - 10/30/17 at 07:08:28
 
They keep trying to get me to bend over.
I'm not willing.

Hope you're alright.

I'd sure hate to be in such a bind for parts that I had to ship what didn't pass QC.
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pRe: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #809 - 10/30/17 at 08:09:57
 

They should just rename it and spec the new part number out at only what it can really really do ......   What throws folks using Intel is that the general product name that shows up in reviewer's testing tables was done using the first quill primo product that tests at xx,xxx and what they actually ship to you is a sub-variant that only does y,yyy but nobody really tells you that it is the sub-variant is what is being used in product xyz being shipped from China.

Qualcomm did this in years past, for example when they had to performance sort all the 810's and the downgrade products 808 and 805 were born accordingly.    Qualcomm was up front about what they were doing, at that time at least.

Intel prefers to just set up confusing "ever moving" part numbers and just refer to all of them in general as "the 810's" .....

Google's Nexus 5x product got bit by this sorting crap two years ago as the first mgf lots of Nexus 5x got supplied with sub par sorted parts by Qualcomm ---- and they all failed by boot loop errors inside the first 2 years.

Google and HTC and LG ate all the associated failure costs as they couldn't prove what Qualcomm had actually done to them.

This is why I always tell you if Intel or Qualcomm is supplying Apple or Microsoft with a brand new part number, Apple or Microsoft gets all the good tested parts and everybody else gets the leavings.

(it is the Intel / Qualcomm way).
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« Last Edit: 10/31/17 at 06:09:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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