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Android/Chrome/Fuchsia vs Windows/Polaris (Read 15390 times)
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #135 - 04/25/16 at 11:12:06
 



OK, this is a way to try to move some totally stagnant Win phone inventory -- a two for one sale.

Not a very good way, but it moves some inventory in time for year's end which is coming up pretty soon for Microsoft.

Problem is the VERY VERY HIGH list price on the one phone you are paying for -- it is so high you could buy like 4 current modern Android phones on Amazon for the same money.

And that is without any sort of special Android sale going on ........


MS is investigating ways to FINALLY MOVE that stagnant phone inventory out of their warehouses.

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« Last Edit: 04/25/16 at 20:39:19 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #136 - 04/25/16 at 11:20:06
 

http://liliputing.com/2016/04/reports-xiaomi-to-manufacture-its-own-chips.html

Seeing how well Apple, Samsung and Mediatek are doing making their own phone chips -- Xiaomi is going to try to do like-wise.  

Except they are perhaps maybe going to try to buy them an old Intel foundry for dirt cheap and put two brand new lines in it -- 14-10nm lines supposedly.   With enough room for two additional lines for the next generation of 7nm non-silicon chipsets once that stuff finishes cooking.

This expansion into chip making is very ambitious and it does sound like biting off more than you can chew.  

Effective immediately,  Xiaomi will begin custom designing some of their very own phone chipsets and having TSMC produce them to spec.   Xiaomi will simply buy a design license from ARM Holdings and go to it.  Or, smarter, partner with ARM to create a new design that meets their needs exactly.  This is a plan that Xiaomi can do right away that yields to them most of the custom chipset advantages that they are seeking.

Potential bad news is Xiaomi can possibly bust one if they go it totally on their own and hurt themselves badly in their selected low end marketplace by doing so.

Xiaomi specialized in low end cost, medium to good spec'd Android phones that run only on major Chinese carriers.  

China's big carrier's cell towers run on completely different specs from the USA carriers, which means the bulk of Xiaomi phones will not run well (or in some localities at all) in the USA, but that is OK as we are seen as a mature, stagnant, actually shrinking replacement only market in Xiaomi's eyes)
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« Last Edit: 04/25/16 at 20:44:26 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #137 - 04/25/16 at 21:18:20
 

Now that Intel has put itself out of play going forward into the next calendar year, what is cooking that makes things fun and interesting for the rest of the players?

ARM Holdings Roadmap Shows A72’s 10nm Successor

http://www.androidheadlines.com/2015/11/arm-holdings-roadmap-spy-show-shows-a...

"In particular, the new high performance core (currently the  Cortex-A72) is codenamed Artemis, presumably after the Greek goddess of the hunt. The Artemis processor is expected to be built on a 10nm process, which will result in a further reduction in power consumption and heat output from the System-on-Chip.

Currently, the smallest commercially available process size is the 14nm, which is used by some Intel and Samsung mobile chipsets. Other chipset manufacturers are switching to the 16nm process size.

ARM’s newly announced Cortex-A35 design is set to become the new ultra low power core of choice, will also move to the new 10nm process size. This will further reinforce the Cortex-A35’s low power and small size credentials and make it an even more compelling processor core design for wearables."


ARM is redesigning and tuning a 10nm Artemis, the A72 replacement chipset for the top end and is redesigning and tuning two speeds of a 10nm A53 small chipset for the mid-range and low range -- all predicated on the extreme power and cooling advantages to be had on Samsung's 10nm and on TSMC's 10nm processes.  

Ironically, the silly things are so small that potential overheating of the closely packed stuff is a concern again, as is the much lower voltage required at 10nm level -- gots us some conflicting stuff coming out of the woodwork, huh?

Both 10nm processes differ enough from each other to require custom tuning of the 10nm core designs to maximize throughput, chip over-heating and battery life.

So, a tuned variant of both ARM chip levels will be built to exactly suit who is going to be building it, as a hand in glove fit is needed at 10nm to keep process speeds up and scrap rates down.

Watch for the voltage drop at 10nm, it only requires a few volts to operate at maximum efficiency.   It can run at higher voltages, but less efficiently.   How they each choose to do this will be interesting.

--- also watch for non-silicon tech to start to swing into play in the next few years as it is finalized by the IBM/Samsung/Global Foundries consortium.   Intel is trying, too.   Early IBM testing shows that their carbon tube based non-silicon is MUCH faster and uses less power -- interesting time are coming, I do believe.   IBM has prototype lines, actual test products and GRANTED PATENTS which are some things that Intel lacks at this time.
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #138 - 04/27/16 at 06:54:37
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 04/25/16 at 10:54:28:

Art, wifi means you connect your carrier cable to a router.   These can be bought for $40 from Walmart.   They all have wifi and 4 ports built in.

Locking yourself away from wifi is silly -- all the new tech is running on wifi now, not cables.

Soon enough, your choices will be wifi or cell towers for most computing choices.  

Cat5 cable will not even be a supported option unless you are getting a desktop rig.  

The USB type C connector is replacing the old Cat5 connector and several of the older USB ports.   They expect you to have wifi, in other words .....

well they can expect all they want, wifi is not secure, period, and as long as I'm running through my cell data, I don't want other people using it too
I've had wifi, and I've had it jacked
USB port from phone to PC is what I use now, and I'd dock my phone to a setup like they seem to be planning to bring out, but I'm not sharing my paltry 5G 4g with others just to make some clown at a computer manufactory happy
Also keep in mind that ATT Uverse is the only carrier I've found in my area for wifi, and they are EXPENSIVE
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #139 - 04/29/16 at 04:16:03
 

http://liliputing.com/2016/04/asrock-deskmini-is-a-tiny-desktop-with-an-upgra...

ASRock DeskMini is a tiny desktop with an upgradeable CPU

..... gets a little warm, huh?  Hot as a cup of coffee, huh?   You are missing out on a free "coffee warmer" feature there guys .....    

Say it can't stand the drips, huh?




Hey guys, I thought INTEL had EXITED the motherboard business, so why is Asrock building new reference design samples?   

Oh, so you had already built these months and months ago intending to drop them at a bombshell press event that will never be held now -- so now poor Asrock has got to get rid of them since they are SO ATTRACTIVE and modernistic chic looking that everyone will want one.

This guy simply didn't get the memo early enough.    His sweet little project is the new poster child for the Intel "technology gap" that Intel is now grappling with.

    Duh, I don't work here any more .....
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 03:39:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #140 - 04/30/16 at 02:31:15
 

http://liliputing.com/2016/04/reports-intel-is-killing-off-low-power-atom-chi...

Intel is killing off low-power Atom chips



Intel recently announced plans to layoff 11 percent of its workforce as the company shifts its focus from PCs to the cloud… now we’re starting to get an idea of what that will mean for the company’s line of chips for personal computers: the low-power, entry-level Atom chip family is being phased out.

Those are the chips commonly used in cheap, low-power tablets, notebooks, and 2-in-1 devices.

It’ll be interesting to see if Intel’s move away from the chips used in sub-$200 devices leaves an opening for rivals like AMD or some of the many chip makers using ARM designs.

While you can’t run the full Windows 10 operating system on an ARM chip, Chrome OS and many Linux-based operating systems work just fine. And Intel’s decision to get out of the Atom space will have little to no impact on some of the most popular tablets including Apple’s iPad lineup, Amazon’s Fire tablets, and Android tablets from Samsung, Asus, and others
.

So, Intel is abandoning the entire lower end of the spectrum, but staying with the "upper low" to middle span with their upcoming Apollo line of 14nm "4th gen" chipsets.

I think Intel knows Microsoft's plans to use Qualcomm chipsets to do this product range and is simply being proactive to cut their low end product lines and the dozens of people that would be under-utilized going into the future.

Intel also sees Mediatek and Rockchip and Allwinner lining up to attack from the bottom end up using Windowing Android and they know that they want no part of that football game since they haven't won a scrimmage against those guys in several seasons now.

Actually Intel is simply tired of taking all those hard hits in the head from them oriental hockey sticks.  

The field is open now for the hockey stick boys to go play hard against each other.


========================================


Update: Intel tells me the company “will continue to ship Cherry Trail Atom x5 and x7” chips.

Whether this is just old stock sitting in a warehouse or new production is unclear at this point in time, but rest assured Intel will honor existing contracts for these chips until those contracts expire.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 03:34:12 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #141 - 04/30/16 at 05:04:22
 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3025976/hardware/chromebooks-are-siphoning-mar...

Chromebooks are siphoning off market share from Windows PCs




Shipments of PCs with Google's Chrome OS are growing at the expense of Windows laptops and desktops, as the PC market suffers through its biggest slump since 2008.

Especially popular are Chromebooks, which are basic Chrome OS laptops for Web computing. Low-price Chromebooks are attractive to students, educational institutions and budget buyers.

Worldwide Chrome PC shipments in 2015 are expected to surpass those in 2014, according to IDC.

Total Windows PC shipments worldwide were 276.21 million in 2015, declining by 10.4 percent from 2014, according to IDC.


So, up to 3-4% of that 10.4% Windows loss went to Chromebooks?    

Apple is way down too, so it didn't go to Apple ..... this 6-7% of total demand that is missing in action may have transferred over to Android and phones/tablets or else simply it dropped off the face of the earth because Win 10 has stifled PC demand by that amount because folks simply don't want to be "owned" by MS.

Perhaps instead they would like a neat, thin light fast Android N Windowing laptop?    Or perhaps a new Chromebook that can run ALL Android apps straight out of the box?    

Google is flinging it both ways this summer, to see which one takes off and runs fastest with their separate method to blend the two OS's together.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 03:41:23 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #142 - 04/30/16 at 12:46:05
 
OF, have you got any more info on the uptake of Windows 10? As I understand it, the free offer runs out sometime in July, so 75% of the free offer time has gone.
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #143 - 04/30/16 at 13:17:33
 

Much has changed since that free 1 year offer was made.    Uptake on the free offer is WAY below the 1 billion machines MS promised that would be upgraded and the residual update issues associated with substandard drivers, machine ownership,  etc. etc. have just multiplied over that time.

Rumor is the "free offer" will be extended, and extended again when that runs out.   This is a forced putt as MS can do nothing other than that.

MS MUST lock you into their system totally to be able to continue as a company.

Issue becomes that there are MANY MANY alternatives to Windows now with even more alternatives coming on board as we wait the rest of the one year.

Later this summer, we get another milestone "threshold release" that will say what Win 10 will actually be like going forward, supposedly.    Fixes that were promised and promised and promised again are promised one more time yet again ......

This is only most of a year late, but better late than never ......

And remember, the direction of the wind has changed to the point Intel is abandoning some of the lower level PC chipsets and firing some of the troops directly associated with them ......  

Will MS do likewise as they have just now started to do with Windows Phone?
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 03:11:29 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #144 - 04/30/16 at 13:52:45
 
Hmm, perhaps MS is a little like Fords sticking with the Model T after it had become obsolete.
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #145 - 04/30/16 at 20:58:02
 

What is becoming clear is that Windows is going to be an upper cost option compared to the majority of other options out there.

Once you are completely locked in, then they can start sending the notices for the "pay me at the Microsoft store" upgrades and neat new "they will fix you" Universal Apps to replace your old program functionality that MS stripped away from you in the upgrade.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 03:16:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #146 - 04/30/16 at 22:04:11
 
OF, just for your info, I've just had a pop up telling me that if I "upgrade" I'll get a "Personal Assistant??".
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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #147 - 05/01/16 at 02:49:18
 

They are referring to Cortana, you can learn about this MS feature here:

http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/25/microsofts-personal-assistant-tech-cortana-n...

They are also saying that if you upgrade you get all the other new features that you never wanted and some of these new features may not work right for you because of driver/hardware mismatches with your old PC's internal equipment.

I fully upgraded just one Windows 7 machine (Grandma's) and Cortana never showed up because MS couldn't figure out the old Sony machine's "non-standard" audio drivers --- Grandma's old Sony laptop was one of the first failed upgrades in that aspect ......

If you are using a standard PC box arrangement you will need a "Microsoft approved standard audio system" and you will need to install a "Microsoft approved standard microphone" so Cortana can hear you speaking.

Good luck with that, if you choose to upgrade it might become an issue for you too.   All your existing drivers will be raked through and any "non-standard" drivers that are found that support any of your "unapproved" hardware will be deleted during the installation.

Welcome to Mickysoft, the new owner of your just now partially broken PC.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 05:54:19 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #148 - 05/01/16 at 04:51:44
 

Predict this fall and this Christmas selling season.

Wow, what a challenge .......

Microsoft will continue to NOT MENTION PHONES ANY AT ALL and the slant on Windows 10 will change away from "one OS running on all devices" to "Windows, the system that does everything for you".

There has to be some stated purpose for the changes being made to Win 10 going forward and Mickysoft has to figure out what they planning on doing to actually help their customer base going forward.   So far the focus has only been on getting Win 10 crammed down everybody's throats and that only operates to benefit Mickysoft and that does tend to make their customers angry as the ongoing driver issues are jest killing the customer/users.

We can take some clues from Intel, which has chopped off 100% of all their phone chip development projects and all their low end chipset activity -- instead Intel is now starting off the family groups off at M class chipsets on the low end of things and rolling upwards through I-5, I-7 and on up through the Itanium server chipsets.  

Intel will only operate in the range where 1) they can make 60% margins and 2) their products are competitive/winners.   Intel is tired of losing.

M chipsets which are fairly modern upper scale chipsets that sell for ~ $400 ~ in a finished product right now.    I.E. -- it meets conditions 1) and 2).    Intel has gotten its act together, finally.

Microsoft is still floundering a bit with their old failed vision.  Microsoft needs to articulate a new vision that isn't based on X-Box and phone running off of the same main release of Win 10 because "Win 10 PC" is so huge and porky now it will NEVER be the same OS on all systems -- it will be 3 customized systems that may be able to swap some Universal Apps around.   Maybe.

Intel has stated their new concise focus which is to only make those chipsets that they can actually sell and make money off of.   This tends to reflect their new focus on main server chipsets and BIG PC chipsets .....   Selling off unused manufacturing sites and laying off underutilized people is how Intel will make money for the rest of this year, along with selling server chipsets at a >60% profit margin.

Microsoft wants you to upgrade to Win 10 and that is their total focus right now, coercing you into upgrading and locking yourself totally into the MS walled garden.   However, Microsoft is slowly beginning to realize that PC isn't where they make their money now, cloud services is where their current profit income is rolling in from, not PC.  

Expect PC to become less vital to MS as the year rolls on and for the Win 10 activity to slow and perhaps become somewhat more stable.

GOOGLE  --  Google I/O in a few weeks is going to be telling in several aspects -- Google is sitting on a Chrome OS that is able to run ALL of the million plus apps in the Android Play Store and they may indeed let that kitty out of the sack at Google I/O.  

They may actually articulate a long term plan to merge Chrome and Android, finally.

Google's sub vendors have Windowing Taskbar Android working pretty well now, to the point the hockey stick boys are releasing preliminary info about their new Christmas selling season $79-$150 Android laptops that are currently based on the FOSS open Chromium OS as modified by Jide and the other open Android x86 contributors into full windowing Android OS products.   Jide Windowing Android OS is running on laptops from Allwinner and Rockchip at this point in time, with Mediatek and Nvidia still yet to ring into the game.

We already know Android N will have resizeable windowing capabilities from the get go as that is already in the early releases.


====================


So ......

Windows (Intel and Microsoft) is staking out the over $400 space as where they will compete against all comers (and make money while doing so) and Android / Chrome is squaring up to simply own the sub $300 space next year.  

Bad news is "most" of the machines that are sold right now are under $400 price point right now.

Final prediction:  User interface, flawless performance, ease of use and "painless upkeep" at the same price points will become telling items going out into the future.
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« Last Edit: 05/03/16 at 14:53:40 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android vs Windows 10
Reply #149 - 05/03/16 at 13:56:39
 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/3/11576216/intel-atom-smartphone-quit
http://recode.net/2016/05/02/intel-10-billion-on-mobile-before-giving-up/

Intel’s new smartphone strategy is to quit





Many times Intel issues corrections or else has somebody spin doctor an unfortunate bad press release for them.  

So, we have waited a whole week now ....... and this abrupt cancellation is still with us.


From the Verge

Late on Friday night, Intel snuck out the news that it’s bailing on the smartphone market. Despite being the world’s best known processor maker, Intel was only a bit player in the mobile space dominated by Qualcomm, Apple, and Samsung, and it finally chose to cut its losses and cancel its next planned chip, Broxton. This followed downbeat quarterly earnings, 12,000 job cuts, and a major restructuring at a company that’s had a very busy April. Intel is still one of the giants of the global tech industry, but it’s no longer as healthy and sprightly as it used to be.

The bane of Intel’s existence for the past decade or so has been the transition to mobile computing. It wasn’t supposed to be that way. Having secured a commanding lead as the premier provider of desktop PC processors, Intel had a clear-eyed strategy for extending its dominance into the mobile realm.

A SERIES OF IGNOMINIOUS FAILURES HAS LEFT INTEL REELING

With the help of Microsoft in 2006, Intel inaugurated the category of Ultra-Mobile PCs (UMPCs), which were the stylus- and touch-friendly precursors to today’s ultra-versatile tablets. They combined low-voltage Celeron and Pentium M chips with Windows Vista, and like everything else touched by Vista, they flopped. Unattainable pricing and inadequate battery life consigned the UMPC to the status of a historical footnote. The same fate befell Intel’s Mobile Internet Device (MID) initiative, which saw the chipmaker pushing and incentivizing its hardware partners to build mini internet tablets like the Nokia N810. Pervasive problems with affordability, battery life, clunky design, and ill-suited software prevented MIDs from ever becoming a mass-market success.

On the software front, Intel recognized the need for a tailored operating system to make the most of mobile PCs and sought to develop its own Linux variant titled Moblin. Moblin never convinced anyone outside of Intel, and was eventually merged with Nokia’s Maemo to produce MeeGo, which in turn merged with Samsung’s Bada and is now known as Tizen. Well, it’s only barely known, even by owners of its most successful product, the Gear S2 smartwatch. The series of post-Moblin software mergers has been merely the consolidation of repeated mobile failures.

Read more: Intel spent more than $10 billion to catch up in mobile, then it gave up

Intel’s ventures into mobile hardware and software development show that even a great idea is only as good as its execution. The MIDs and UMPCs of yesteryear were aimed at the same usage scenarios as the phablets and pro tablets of today — but they were compromised and premature, and therefore rejected by the market.

This has cost Intel dearly, with the company lavishing billions on developing suitable processors and modems to put into its various mobile undertakings. The multibillion-dollar mobile costs have spiraled in recent years — a loss of $3.1 billion in 2013 was followed by a loss of $4.3 billion in 2014 — which eventually forced Intel to combine its mobile and PC earnings reports in order to disguise its unproductive spending.

The tragedy of Intel’s mobile failure is that the company foresaw all the threats to its business and acted to preempt them. It just didn’t do so very well. That being said, Intel’s the victim of its bad decision making almost as much as its poor execution.




From  Re/code

After missing the early days of the smartphone revolution, Intel spent in excess of $10 billion over the last three years in an effort to get a foothold in mobile devices.

Now, having gained little ground in phones and with the tablet market shrinking, Intel is essentially throwing in the towel. The company quietly confirmed last week that it has axed several chips from its roadmap, including all of the smartphone processors in its current plans.

It’s a stunning admission of failure that saw the company throw good money after bad in its bid to make up for lost ground.

“Suffice it to say, they likely lost well over $10 billion betting on mobile chips that never really got them anywhere,” said Jackdaw Research analyst Jan Dawson.

Calculating the exact amount of its losses is tricky, given that the company only reported the mobile business separately for two years before folding it back into another unit. In just that time, the mobile business posted a whopping $7.4 billion in operating losses. Much of that came as Intel agreed to pay device makers that used its chips to account for the fact that choosing Intel added other costs.

The hope was those companies would form a ready base of customers once Intel was ready with more competitive and cost-effective chips run just a year or two. Without such payments, Intel felt it would have had to wait several more years to regain a position in mobile chips.

Intel’s chips, though, ended up being neither timely nor competitive. And most agree that Intel was right to reverse course, even though it would have been better to have never gone down this road in the first place.

By the middle of 2014, Intel was losing more than a billion dollars per quarter on its mobile effort.   It was enough to stifle progress on many fronts.

Intel’s mobile failure is not only measured in dollars, the loss of forward momentum is something that counts beyond dollars and cents.   It leads to retrenchment, and that is both ugly and hard to do.

The chip giant is in the process of cutting its workforce by more than 12,000, with those involved in mobile chips among those expected to be hit hard. Intel is just now starting to notify workers and declined to go into details on the parts of the company that will be most impacted.

And, of course, there is the opportunity cost of where Intel could have invested all those billions had it not been hellbent on trying to reclaim lost ground in mobile.

The company did reach its target of shipping 40 million tablets in 2014, but that was one of the few mobile goals it reached. The tablet market stalled soon after and Intel failed to grab any significant chunk of the far larger smartphone market. Taiwan’s Asus had been the company’s biggest phone backer, but even it had started to pull back this year, shifting nearly all its models to other companies’ processors.

Intel isn’t out of the mobile business entirely. Although it has canceled several families of chips designed to serve as the main processor for phones and tablets, the company is still pushing hard to gain share in the market for modem chips, a secondary but nonetheless important part of phones.

With the roadmap changes, Intel will still be making chips for tablets, but more the big Windows 2-in-1 tablets designed to compete in the PC market than the low-end Android models. And any ambitions of powering smartphones will have to wait at least for 5G, meaning not until sometime in the next decade.

So the question is, what now for a PC giant that finds itself in a largely post-PC world?

“I think this is a sign of more realistic thinking at Intel and putting their investments where they’re more likely to pay off,” Dawson said. “Their main focus now appears to be on maintaining whatever they can in the legacy PC business and then trying to grow through data centers and Internet of Things applications. Data centers have been really good for them over the last few years, but Internet of Things is still really small.”

Plus, Internet of Things devices resemble the mobile market more than they do the PC market, so it’s not clear that Intel will have any more luck in that market.

In addition to all the money it spent to win business for its tablet chips, Intel invested a fortune to make sure that Android worked well on its processors and to make life easier for device makers that went with its chips. Intel executives liked to boast that Intel had the largest Android software team outside of Google.

It’s unclear what will become of that effort, though Intel still wants to make sure its chips are well suited for Chrome OS-based devices, one of the few bright spots in an otherwise bleak PC market.

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