SuzukiSavage.com - I've bought a box of bits

DavidP

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 45

I've bought a box of bits
11/09/15 at 16:09:32

Greetings People,

I have bought a 1997 Savage or to be more precise a big box of bits. A lady friend of mine bought it new and put about 17,000 miles on it. Then one fateful day she ran it low on oil and the engine started to protest. She rode it home and apparently it was making pitiful noises of surrender. Her husband decided that the bottom end bearings were shot and took it almost all apart. All that was left to remove was the clutch and the alternator and then split the crankcase. At this stage he lost interest, she bough a brand new Suzuki and the bits sat in his shop for 5 years. So fast forward to last week and I was having dinner with them when I mentioned that I needed a project to get me through the winter. A deal was struck and I started to research the Savage and found this place.

So my first question is, the previous owner thought the bottom end was shot however I have pulled up and down on the piston and can find no movement to indicate a bearing is shot. The crankshaft rotates smoothly with no nasty noises. I am thinking that the bottom end is OK and to be honest I really don't want to get the crankcase split if I don't have to. (I live in the boondocks to to find a good Suzuki mechanic maybe quite difficult). What I have found is that there are several odd looking dings on the very outside of the top of the piston. I also found that the oil control ring was in 3 pieces not broken but a complete ring then the oil controller then another complete ring. (I don't know if that is how it should be).

My plan is to clean the head, lap the valves, hone the cylinder and rebuild it with a new piston, rings and a set of gaskets. Through this forum I see that this would be a good time to do the work to stop the oil weep, which the previous owner suffered from. I don't quite understand it but I am sure as I look deeper it will make sense.

What I would like is any tips, advice or warnings that you guys might have. Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanks guys

DavidP

Back to top

IP Logged

old_rider Serious Thumper Offline Backyard Bill Productions Posts: 3147 flordia panhandle Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #1 - 11/09/15 at 22:24:05 If she ran it low on oil, it might have been the valves making the noise first... check the cam and the rocker arms for dents and grooves. Also, with that mileage on it, you might want to check the cam chain tensioner, it probably popped out.
Back to top	We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17821
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: I've bought a box of bits
Reply #2 - 11/10/15 at 02:45:22

The bottom end has roller and ball bearings, and when run low on oil they are pretty good at surviving for a while. The first two things to go are usually the piston/cylinder, the cam bearings in the head, or the rockers/camshaft. A couple of bikes on this forum (mine included) made a horrible clanking bottom end noise....and it turned out to be a loose nut holding the flywheel on the crankshaft.

The oil ring is a 3 piece ring....no problem there.

I have a good used piston you can have if you pay shipping.

So....just where is the Boondocks that you live?

Back to top

« Last Edit: 11/10/15 at 05:33:12 by Dave »

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

DavidP

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 45

Re: I've bought a box of bits
Reply #3 - 11/10/15 at 15:12:08

Thank you for the replies I appreciate it. I cleaned up the head today and it was clear that the the camshaft had melted some aluminum on the head. I ticked the head with some fine emery cloth and also polished the cam shaft to remove the aluminum that was stuck to it and it seemed to spin a lot easier. The previous owner forgot to give me a pile of parts that came off the top of the head so I can't check the rocker arms yet.

Thank you for the offer of the piston but I have already ordered a new one. As to where I live? Rocky Mount Virginia where it is impossible to purchase a a valve spring compressor so I had to make my own with a U bracket and a C clamp.

I am sure I will have a lot more questions as the project continues but for now thanks guys

David P

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17821 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #4 - 11/11/15 at 09:29:06 I made my own valve spring compressor after seeing what the local machine shop made and use. A drill press has plenty of power to remove the Savage valve springs. It was made form a bolt, a washer, and a piece of tubing that was a size that would fit the keeper. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344000395/0#0
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

Gus Senior Member Offline Thumpers Rock! Posts: 491 Minnesota Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #5 - 11/11/15 at 13:22:31 Excellent link Dave. Good luck with the top end David. Hope you bought it right.
Back to top	1994 BMW K75S 2011 s40 1979 Honda CT90 Trail 1964 Honda CT200 Trail One cylinder - one carburetor. Life is good! Retired/Minnesota IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17821 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #6 - 11/11/15 at 13:59:52 Gus wrote on 11/11/15 at 13:22:31: Excellent link Dave. Good luck with the top end David. Hope you bought it right. That build was the engine that is in my Cafe' bike......6,000 miles later it is still going fine!
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

DavidP

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 45

Re: I've bought a box of bits
Reply #7 - 11/11/15 at 14:26:59

The previous owner delivered all the missing pieces this morning including the head cover and rocker arms. Congratulations to those who predicted that the arms would be shot, they are, in fact they are both concave. I saw the thread on repairing them but that is above my pay grade so I have just ordered two.

I know that I am very new to the Savage and I shouldn't denigrate the design (especially here) but............. What is the deal with the camshaft just sitting in aluminum without a phosphor bronze bearing shell? Clearly if something is going to wear it will be the head and the cover. The workshop manual glibly states that if the bearing surface is out of tolerance replace the cylinder head and associated parts. Just for fun I looked up the price of the head which comes in at a eye watering $740. Kind of an expensive fix compared to designing it with a shell.

DavidP

Back to top

IP Logged

Gus Senior Member Offline Thumpers Rock! Posts: 491 Minnesota Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #8 - 11/11/15 at 14:35:04 I'm new here too David. Clearly an older bike wouldn't be worth fixing if you needed a new head. I seen a couple of these for sale this fall, with serious sheet metal issues for around 700. Seems that would be the way to go.
Back to top	1994 BMW K75S 2011 s40 1979 Honda CT90 Trail 1964 Honda CT200 Trail One cylinder - one carburetor. Life is good! Retired/Minnesota IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17821 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #9 - 11/11/15 at 16:27:10 Yep, cam riding in the aluminum head is not all that uncommon anymore. It works for a long, long time......as long as you don't run out of oil.
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #10 - 11/11/15 at 17:09:37 And keep the idle RPM up and, there is some speculation that idling as it leans on the stand may tend to starve the starboard cam lobe. There's a reservoir just below the cam, and if you stand the bike up before poking the button, the lobes get a bath. Bathe your lobes! I'm pretty sure mine are dirty, or so I've been told.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

WD

Serious Thumper
2005 No Login

Offline

Professional
"scooter
trash".

Posts: 5207
Rosemark TN
Gender: male

Re: I've bought a box of bits
Reply #11 - 11/11/15 at 18:41:24

Cam pillows can be shimmed with bronze oilite bushing stock. A competent machine shop can do the job in about 4-6 hours. Check the price versus a new cylinder head, as it may be more expensive to rebuild than to replace.

Pretty standard operation, as nothing is built to last anymore. Ask them to add an oil groove to the insert while they are at it.

Back to top

On 2 wheels since 7/87

Black and Chrome 2003 1950s style custom

IP Logged

DavidP

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 45

Re: I've bought a box of bits
Reply #12 - 11/13/15 at 13:23:55

Well I have now got to the stage where everything is cleaned up and I am just awaiting for the parts I ordered. In the meantime I have been looking at all of the random bits and most of them I think that I have worked out. However there are two parts that I am not sure about.
The first is a plain spring clip about 1 inch in diameter. It is not like a circlip with holes to fit pliers, it is just a plain piece of spring wire. The second is a long spiral spring about 7 inches long. I tried to post some pictures but I guess there are restrictions on Newbies posting images.
Any help will be gratefully received.
Thanks
DavidP

Hmm looks like I can post an image after all. Undecided

Back to top

bike13.png

IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17821 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #13 - 11/13/15 at 13:29:05 That round clip looks like the one that holds the wrist pin into the piston. If the 7" long spring is shiny....most likely it was on the vacuum line for the fuel petcock. Here is the photo in the Tech Section for how to test the vacuum petcock.
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

DavidP YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 45	Re: I've bought a box of bits Reply #14 - 11/14/15 at 12:28:39 Thank you Dave both of your suggestions were spot on. I appreciate your help.
Back to top	IP Logged