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Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc (Read 5530 times)
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #195 - 10/16/15 at 09:06:03
 

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/15/lundin-and-lidgren-predict-cop-of-over-1...

Theoretical scientists are closing in on a LENR theory that seems to work -- and the theory implies that much MUCH higher COP values are possible.

Rossi now admits to having run some E-Cats up at the higher "always self-supporting" levels, but he says he always winds up with materials failures fairly shortly at those temperature levels as they spike up into the destruct range on their own.   Significantly stronger & higher melting point materials are needed.

So, now you know why Rossi just built himself a brand new Florida-based state of the art super high temp materials lab that can construct the new bits and pieces that are needed to support his latest E-Cat X developmental process.  

Rossi personally is moving to Florida to bird dog the new stuff under development.   He is no longer in residence inside his shipping container.

And why, in Cary NC, a brand new high security 20,000 foot robotics only assembly plant is under way, to be run by Industrial Heat.   A similar plant is going into Europe to be run by Woodford.  

The existing E-Cat is plenty good enough at 20-80 COP and it will be produced and shipped ASAP to fill the 3 billion in existing orders.

These plants will build only the existing 250mw E-Cats (the low cost traditional nickle/lithium type) that are to be used in the industrial steam plants and for large scale building heating.

Rossi is waiting on his industrial certifications and he will ship industrial units before even beginning to mess with commercial and home installations.  

I am sure Industrial Heat has been approached by the major furnace and water heater companies already for them to get licensed to build Rossi core home furnaces and home water heaters.   A single sub-250kw core could heat your water all year long and with kicking in a second and third (for bigger houses and businesses) sub-250kw core you could heat your home with a unified system that moves hot water from the water heater past a heat exchanger coil in the duct work or through floorboard radiators.

And, when they are ready, the E-Cat X super duper high temp cores may well use the same flange size, but will likely require an electronic control package upgrade and perhaps a stronger walled boiler vessel as well.

Roll Eyes
         

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« Last Edit: 10/20/15 at 09:40:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #196 - 10/16/15 at 20:33:26
 
2,500 100watt light bulbs.


That would warm a place up.
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #197 - 10/18/15 at 05:41:51
 
I have always like the idea of radiant heat for homes. In the old days up north with the boilers in the basement and a couple of radiators in the bottom floor, the vents would be in the ceiling of the lower rooms so that heat could pass to the upstairs rooms (we used to listen to tv through the vent in the upstairs room floor Smiley )
Here in florida radiant heat projects were taking off about 6 years ago on new builds, but have died out a bit because of electric pricing.
LENR would definitely change the way homes were built... if you would have a generator in each home. However, using the excess heat in winter would be fine...but how to cycle the heat from under the home, to where? in the summer?
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #198 - 10/18/15 at 06:31:25
 

Rossi has a cigar sized core that could maintain a hot water heater's temp just fine in the summer time.

Same unit could house one larger core that could heat your home in the winter just fine.

Since Rossi says he has better "adjustability" in his new cores that he didn't have before, perhaps the bigger cores can go down to a near idle state when heat isn't needed.

Size of the things has gone down drastically in the last year -- the one megawatt plant was a 40 foot container, then it was a half container, now it is sized to 2mx2mx1m.

"the real volume occupied by a 1 MW generator is m 2 of height, m 2 of length and m 1 of width, as you can see for a total of 4 cubic meters".

This is 1 1/2 times the size of your current basement vertical furnace system, but this thing is over 100 times STRONGER than your basement furnace.

Much of the required space is access room which will go down again as the equipment becomes routine and considered reliable (no access on a side or two ever needed).

Having seen a 1 megawatt plant go from container, to half container to phone booth size in just one year, I think the trend is to smaller and more compact.

Also consider that a 1 megawatt plant can heat your house (and the ones on either side 2 deep) I think a right sized home unit is likely much smaller yet.


=============================


Hot water circulating heaters would be what normal home owners would want -- nobody wants to listen to steam heat hissing and gurgling and pinging all the time (my first dorm room at NCState had steam heat because that part of campus dated back to early 1900s).   Other than being able to heat food on the radiator, nothing about that steam radiator was good to me.

There is no reason a single home sized Rossi hot water home heating plant should be any bigger than a LARGE hot water heater is today.

Baseboard laid finned metal pipe isn't very pretty and the fins get damaged easily, so it generally gets covered up by an aluminum molding, but it is relatively easy to install and the insulated runs of hot water tubing are easy enough to lay in a basement crawl space.

For people with forced air, another coil installed in the air main isn't unsightly at all.   You'd have to run your fan all the time though, which costs you electricity to do that.

To save installing the baseboard radiators and the "run the water pump and the central blower unit all the time" type costs you could go with separate, room sized passive Rossi heater units.  These would be akin to the finned radiator type electrical units that exist now, but using Rossi's smallest cores run at high COP levels to power it.



The people who build these could use the same exterior form with a Rossi core inside the cavity instead of an electrical resistance unit.
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« Last Edit: 10/19/15 at 09:14:21 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #199 - 11/20/15 at 04:41:27
 

What is the current state of the 1 megawatt plant that is nearing the end of its one year test period?

Rossi has nursed his creation through 3 design refinements during the year, and one full redesign that cut the size in half.



Instead of filling a 40 foot full sized container, it now fits in a half-sized container with room to spare.   Instead of having massive power cables running everywhere, it now seems to use interior grouped controls of some sort, meaning that the big power cables everywhere are gone now.   One reactor is being used to affect several other close by reactors, by the way things are grouped.

What was originally hoped to be at least a 6 months reactor life before all the goodie was used up is now bearing down on a year, so design life is OK.   HOWEVER, as the cores get older they are getting crankier, so for commercial uses a shorter than full change period may be indicated, in order to keep the operation smooth.



Rossi is now learning about the end of life issues with his grouped product and is having to teach his controllers some new tricks to keep the steam up and the reactors from going into abrupt end of life sorts of things.   Since he's never run grouped reactors through to total end of life before, he is getting hit with a stream of new situations that haven't occurred previously.

One senses that Rossi will beat his head against the wall for a bit before deciding that the core change-out point has been reached.

He also needs to fully develop the change out protocols and controller programming to bring on-line a replacement core that has just been plugged in for the first time.


This last pic is intended to give you some idea of size and scale.   This is Rossi, standing beside the current working model of the E-Cat steam plant.  




========================================


There are three major questions to be answered by this year long first commercial trial.   How long does a reactor last under production loading?  Is the process production reliable on mission critical applications?   Is the product stable and simple enough to be turned over to a normal plant maintenance department?

There is no doubt the system makes steam at high COP values, but is it really ready for widespread commercial sale?

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« Last Edit: 11/20/15 at 06:23:56 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #200 - 12/04/15 at 05:57:34
 
E-Cat X is Rossi's new high temperature capable new little core product at roughly a 100 killowatt output per unit.

It is intended for smaller, general use items, unlike the larger 250 killowatt cells he designed previously.



Concept of an E-Cat X home water heating module.   For hot water based circulating heating systems.  

Take same unit and plug it into a large hot water heater for a static system like we generally have in our homes today.

Take 3 of these modules in a small flat boiler and put them in a small steam driven around town type car ......  ???

E-Cat x is small and modular ....  it can do many different tasks.  

It turns on quickly and ramps quickly and it ramps down and turns off quickly.

E-Cat X is under trial in Rossi's computer container as we speak with over 20 days on it already (using revised materials).


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« Last Edit: 12/23/15 at 14:35:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #201 - 12/09/15 at 13:46:38
 
Rossi still not willing to commit to a successful test outcome but has raised over $800,000 in funds?
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #202 - 12/09/15 at 17:34:45
 


That $810,000 number is the LENR Investment fund, which is investing in Rossi, Brillouin, and several others as a speculation fund --- figuring that one of the above will be the new industry leader and will give huge returns on money invested right now before it kicks off good.



Yep, and Rossi's got three billion dollars in existing orders sitting out there right now waiting for him to get his thumb out of his butt.  

There are some serious discussions that need to take place between Rossi and IH and Woodford concerning the alterations that are needed to the reactors to make them more durable.  You do have all the new materials that have been set up for the E-Cat X program that do offer concrete reliability advantages after all.  

Rossi knows that there are things that he can do and he is going to implement some of those changes but then he's got to convince himself and the rest of his compatriots they should not do another full long duration trial and actually should go ahead and go into limited production.

I think both Rossi and Industrial Heat will do the conservative thing.   Remember, each one of these levels is a slide out reactor unit that can be changed out relatively easily (compared to a boiler rebuild, for example).  And one rack is redundant at 1 megawatt ongoing output, so you can pull one rack for replacement while the other three keep the steam up correctly for your ongoing production uses.





This might be called a Beta Program where he has a half-dozen reactors in certain training related distributor locations where he knows he has enough intelligent and trained people there to keep track of the reactors.

They can (or already have) built that many training set ups as hand-builts.   Three to six is a reasonable number for a Beta Program, enough for lots and lots of experience data but at a relatively low controlled risk exposure, especially if they are located at "secured" distributor sites.  

You only need one rack for training purposes, anyway.

Then they can run the Beta program for half a year or more while the production plants get set up to start filling orders.   Beta  program also offers a training ground for customer technicians, hands on with experienced people around them, dealing with the normal sorts of stuff.  

The very first Beta Program might be installing units at the training centers at each major distributor and getting them up and running while training the first wave of real industrial customer technicians while their home units are assembled.   Multiple things need to be going on at the same time from now on.

Industrial Heat / Woodford could maintain ownership of the reactors and just simply sell the heat to the end customer at a strongly discounted rate until the Beta program ends successfully.   Then, after six months or a year the customers could see what's what, then the customers could either buy the plants or not.

Ongoing upgrades are part of the system, you slide out a rack and slide in a replacement rack with all the current upgrade changes in it fresh from the factory.   You send the old rack back "un-opened" as a contract required must do item.
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« Last Edit: 12/15/15 at 06:21:29 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #203 - 12/13/15 at 18:33:23
 
  
Let's talk about these a bit ......    Rossi's "new materials" unit has been running w/out failure for over 30 days now.











Rossi only gives out information in little drabs and tidbits, but his followers (and his critics) assiduously pull the bits together to make a somewhat fuzzy picture.

E-Cat X is very exciting to Rossi as it works at high temperatures that are self-sustaining most of the time.   Much higher than E-Cat ever reaches.   The older E-Cat can make wet steam (low temp) but E-Cat X can make dry steam (engine and turbine steam) in one pass.

Rossi dropped a key tidbit:  Rossi responded: “The modules will be of 1 kW. The density of power should be doubled at the least”.

OK, Individual reactors could be at most half sized compared to E-Cat and they can potentially make "good to go" high temperature DRY  STEAM in one pass.   If the energy density is 2x then half sized reactors is logical.  

Next, he is going to sell 1 kw reactors instead of 250 kw reactors, so the size goes in half again ???  

One Quarter the existing size ?????    It becomes too tenuous of a guess at this point in time, really .....

Internal to the reactor, they are "little suns" releasing a full spectrum of visible and ultra-violet light inside the reactor chamber along with EM waves of various sorts.  

As such they can produce some electricity directly from the reaction with a simple pick up coil while producing dry very high temperature steam.

Material stresses are so up there that new materials are having to be created in a materials lab to handle the heat and pressure loads inside the little reactor at running temps, while resisting any of the corrosion effects of element isotopes ramping up from A to B to C, etc. etc.

Begins to smell a bit like straight fusion type container issues in some of the heat aspects vs the containment vessel, no ????   With ongoing elemental istotope shifting going on to boot so you got to be careful about your container material "participating" in the fun.

Let's go back to the energy density at 2x improvement at a minimum.   We have already watched the 1 megwatt plant shrink from container to half container to less than a quarter container.   Look at that existing 1 megawatt design again, please, then shrink it again by half to 3/4 and up the heat output way up into the dry steam range.

Current size is 2mx2mx1m or 4 cubic meters.   Half that size and it is a little bigger than your washer/dryer set up for a 1 megawatt unit.  

A quarter size is your washer alone.    Cool

BUT you don't need a megawatt sized plant for anything associated with a single dwelling, right?   Split it into single use applications and you see where the little single core drawing above comes into play.

Now for the megawatt plant say Steam 18 wheeler,  Steam ship,  Steam train, this is for the resulting half-to-quarter sized 1 megawatt plant.   Say commercial building heat plant, municipal power generating station, fresh water from sea water desalinization plant.   Big stuff.  Important stuff.

Now let's do some little single core sized stuff like your house and hot water heater.  A multi-room portable heater.  Stuff like that.

The little singleton core reactor is potentially powerful enough and small enough for several of then to make up a small Steam car.   Or, Heaven help us,  for one of them to make a Steam motorcycle.  

(you'd put two in your Elios for faster acceleration)    Smiley

Plus he can start it quicker, ramp it up quicker and turn it down quicker.

Should his upcoming Beta Program be built of the new stuff, or the old stuff?  

Or should he simply split the two programs apart as he is already tending to do and go for a longer lasting wet steam large stationary industrial plant and leave the E-Cat X to the smaller "more mobile" applications?

Roll Eyes      Moore's Law seems to apply to E-Cats like it does to computers.


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« Last Edit: 12/23/15 at 14:36:17 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #204 - 12/18/15 at 09:38:53
 

E-Cat X now can scale down to a few watts for holding, then ramp up to full wattage much faster than before.   Output temp stays around 1400 degrees but the trick of full ramp down requires the controller to cut off the water into the chamber once the reactor starts the idle down so the water in the chamber can evaporate -- the low low wattage storage takes place in a dry chamber -- ramp up then takes place and once an output level that can freely boil the entering cold water is reached the water is allowed back into the chamber.

You begin to see why such rigorous materials are needed to build the reactor out of -- Rossi is now running all the time at what used to be considered "oops, we just melted another one" performance levels.  

And  now he wants to repeatedly heat treat and quench his bits and pieces.

Refractory Materials Science is going to step forward at the same pace as the E-Cats from this point forward.   One can't go there without the other.

Look to see brand new materials patents coming out of the Lenardo Group going forward as a precursor to any new E-Cat types.

These new materials patents are just as valuable as the E-Cat patents.


===========================


Rossi's E-Cat X is being run off in a 3-up steam vessel cell that has 3 E-Cat X cells in it and it is producing superheated steam 24/7 when he is not doing ramp ups and downs to develop his controller programs.

A 3-up vessel that is making 3-5 kw of superheated steam, suitable for many uses including potentially powering a CAR by golly.  

If Rossi can milk enough electricity out of it to charge a battery then he has potentially got a vehicular power cell on his hands.   Especially if he only idles the cells instead of shutting them off completely, then he has a low constant supply of electricity to keep a control system and a "restart" battery hotted up all the time.


============================


Wet "low temp" steam can use the old big long lasting E-Cat construction method (with some new material tech in it to make it more forgiving) lasting over the years long run time those big cells can apparently do.

Give it some time and there will be a large cell high temp family to drop into those same big industrial cell slots, but that isn't the current developmental push --- small cells that can easily do multiples to power a WIDE RANGE of things is what Rossi is after right now.

Rossi has already moved past what he is testing in the current 1 megawatt test -- this is what happens when a tech is brand new.    He also knows how to build a better low temp big cell using some of his new materials tech -- ergo his old test rig will "fail" on reliability compared to his newly developed stuff even though he could and did make his required number of days.

Should someone build an automated plant to build an out of date design?  No, it teaches them they should build a VERY FLEXIBLE automated plant that can be changed easily to do the next version and then the version after that which is coming next year as well as the current production version.   Consideration of the flange size and pressure vessel strength needs to be increased a bit to future proof things a bit.

Rossi should sell pressure vessels that are 150% stronger than high temp steam should require and the flange system should be a little oversized such that future stuff would have enough room to grow a bit.

I could see a 1 megawatt cell growing "technologically" to being a 3-5 megawatt cell without getting any physically much larger within 5 years or so.

Moores Law seems to apply to this technology, like it has to so many others since it was first expressed as a law.
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« Last Edit: 12/23/15 at 08:09:05 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #205 - 12/23/15 at 07:52:20
 

Rossi let slip an interesting tidbit -- the 1 year long test of the 1 megawatt steam plant WAS a very intentional durability test as EACH MODULE CONTAINS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT MIX RATIO, intending to determine optimum mix for both output, ease of control and durability.

Rossi will tune his mix according to the data results seen, and the 1 megawatt plant will continue to run after the formal test is concluded as all but one of the charge mixes has lasted a lot longer than anticipated.   And that one mix is just starting to tail out just now, how long it can last and still produce enough steam to stay in play is unknown at this time.

This is a long term test to total burn out, as end of life of a large reactor is "unknown turf" as of yet.   Lithium isotope reactions may start the LENR reaction to going, but something else more complex is going on in the later stages.  

Good safe behavior in the end game is needed (and that knowledge needs to be gotten) before sales can begin.

Count on Darden and Woodford to have all the needed questions and for Rossi to supply those answers to unlock the first production plant's funding.

Rossi also knows which mixture range is easiest to control and to keep up with now, a piece of data that will likely get used in the real production cores.

Wink    Rossi has also incidentally mentioned "SSM mode or not" in his daily entries (which the fans have been assiduously recording, daily) -- some of the suckers have run in SSM mode for over SIX MONTHS now.  

Go calculate you a COP number off of that little itty bit of data, especially since the mentioned reactor number likely refers to a separate mixture .....

Wink
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« Last Edit: 12/23/15 at 12:56:42 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #206 - 12/23/15 at 14:27:57
 

Let's talk about this E-Cat X module thing, specifically what you have to change out when the charge gets weak.

Do you think you can handle doing this?   I mean it is really complex and hard to do .....


Unplug the controller wire plug.   Let it cool down.  Notice the pressurized portion is never disturbed, so you got no leak potential involved in this charge module change out.

Unsnap the date of mgf seal, unscrew 4 machine screws and slide the sucker out of there.   Give it back to Walmart and get your core charge amount credited back to your charge card.

Stick the new one in, put the screws back in and snap on the dated seal.

Plug the controller wire pug back in.

Reset the control unit on the device.  (push a button)


Every year or so you'd have to do this to your hot water heater, your room heaters and to your steam car.

Wink

(Room heaters would likely last longer as they are an intermittent seasonal use.   Ditto for your steam car.)



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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #207 - 12/23/15 at 16:23:12
 
While I haven't read all the posts here and I'm no expert on this topic, I'll say what I've said before.

There'll be this great new technology, and before you know it, everything else will be obsolete, outlawed, or otherwise pushed out of the market by the "superior" competition.

Say bye bye to your thumper! It may take some years, but I wonder just how far the "high tech rules!" attitude will go to putting our current way of life out of existence.

Just imagine when every new bike produced is electric or nuclear by government mandate because gasoline engines are "too dirty."


With that being said, the LENR technology seems kinda promising.  Smiley

I'm still hoping there's a chance for me to design a better internal combustion engine.  Wink Maybe there's still a chance for oil/alcohol burners. Wink

Does everything have to get all electric and computerized and stuff these days!? Tongue
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #208 - 12/23/15 at 17:57:43
 


Grin

You'll still have to stop periodically to fill up your water tank on your single cylinder steam sickle .....   (and take a piss of course)
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #209 - 12/23/15 at 18:24:49
 
Hmmm.... "Single cylinder steam sickle"

Maybe there's a little hope.

(just a little Tongue)
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