SuzukiSavage.com - Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #180 - 09/28/15 at 13:47:01

In order to replicate an experiment I know I would want to know what the claimed results were of the people whose experiment it was that I was trying to replicate. If they didn't bother to read what the experiment was supposed to do, that's not science, that's politics.
If I decided your experiment was supposed to make a cake and I mixed the baking soda and vinegar and got a volcano, then, your experiment can't be duplicated.
Looks like someone funded
Coff, coff, Scientists
My attitude won't change on that. It wouldn't be the first time scientists have been used to promote or suppress an idea.
to suppress technology.

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #181 - 09/28/15 at 14:09:00

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/27/15 at 15:04:43:

Q: If it does work, what are the implications?

A: I’m doing this for the environment. If cold fusion works, it would address air pollution including carbon. It could be a game changer."[/b][/color]

"IF" !?! still not 100% convinced?

Maybe cold fusion is a misnomer to the general public, but these are nuclear guys. Being a table top experiment shoulda gave these guys a clue... no radiation, hence the term COLD.

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #182 - 09/29/15 at 07:46:42

Signs are popping up that E-Cat X indeed uses higher melting point powders -- platinum and palladium seem to be the best guesses at this point.

This also explains why Rossi is doing materials study at this point in time since the thing would run up way way on up there, around the melt temps of most of the common materials used previously. It would produce VERY HIGH TEMPERATURE SUPER-HEATED STEAM too. Premium Steam.

Question pops up, can a nickel based (easily made and controlled) master cell produce the muons to excite some surrounding slave cells that actually use different materials ????

I mean, a muon is a muon is a muon, right?

Envision a taller steam chamber with a E-Cat master at the bottom with a layered stack of E-Cat X slaves over the top of it -- the master stays down in the water (and runs at E-Cat boiling water temperatures) and some of the slave layers are completely exposed for white hot superheating soak duty.

Yup, E-Cat X will have to be built of esoteric materials all the way ...... but your steam car and steam power generator are all very possible if this tech becomes fully realized.

Wink

.... hey, they didn't throw the entire 10 column of the periodic table into this US Patent thing just on a wimsy, you know .....

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« Last Edit: 09/30/15 at 08:45:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #183 - 09/30/15 at 06:51:46

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/30/woodford-equity-income-fund-invested-in-...

Woodford Equity Income Fund Invested in Industrial Heat after 2.5 Years of Due Diligence

Posted on September 30, 2015 by Frank Acland • 4 Comments

Thanks to pg for finding this from the Woodford Equity Income Fund website. This British investment fund (publicly traded) which has invested in Industrial Heat. Tom Darden said in his recent interview with Fortune magazine that Woodford Investment Management had made a “much larger investment” into Industrial Heat than Cherokee Investment Partners’ own $10 million investment.

Someone on the Woodford funds’ website posted that they were very unhappy to see the fund investing 1.72% of the fund invested into industrial heat because cold fusion appeared to violate the laws of known physics. Paul Farrow of Woodford responded:

PAUL FARROW says:You will also note that Industrial Heat arranged all of this progress
August 18, 2015 at 9:19 pm
Hi John,You will also note that Industrial Heat arranged all of this progress

Many thanks for your comment and we’d like to reassure you that we do follow a thorough due diligence process for all our investments, irrespective of their size or the fund they are invested in.
With regard to Industrial Heat, we were, and have been, very aware of the scepticism about this technology. We have undertaken a rigorous due diligence process that has taken two and half years. The company is currently working with numerous scientists and is acquiring both the technology and teams required to maximise the potential of this, and other, new energy technologies.

The company recently said that it is willing to invest time and resources to see if this technology might be an area of useful research in its quest to eliminate pollution. We share this quest for what we believe will be a significant development and exploitation of new energy sources.

https://woodfordfunds.com/focus-on-long-term/#comment-6294

So it sounds like Woodford Investment Management have done some serious homework on Industrial Heat and have found that they like what they see. It’s interesting to read from this comment that IH is looking at other new energy sources — this would be in addition to Rossi’s E-Cat — which is something Tom Darden has said they are doing.

From the comments below the post:

I quote myself from lenr-forum:

https://woodfordfunds.com/our-...

Woodford Patient Capital Trust total assets £844.8m

Industrial Heat is 1.72% of the fund's total portfolio.

1.72% of £844.8m is £14.53m

£14.53m is $22m

So Industrial Heat got 22 million dollars from Woodford?
• Reply•Share ›
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paul42 • 13 minutes ago
Appears to be approximately a $40 million dollar investment.

Do you think you can set up an assembly plant with 22 to 40 million dollars? I think you can with no trouble, especially if you are using ABB Robotics to do the line work.

Next -- Payback period. Woodford Investment Management has to turn a profit on their investments or else report a loss to their fund holders (something they are loathe to do) as their stockholders get antsy fairly quickly.

I see a first plant making a first product to fulfill the 3 billion in pre-existing orders all within the first year of production. I see 2016 as being a critical year and the E-Cat making or breaking its initial business presence in this time period.

Work will continue with E-Cat X but the initial roll out will be 20-80 COP nickel E-Cat in the already proven out industrial nickel based E-Cat format.

The boys know they can roll a controlled initial success doing that, with a follow on upgraded product to follow in a year or so, retro-fit with the first set of used up cores.

They will know the flange size of E-Cat X and the needed configuration for the extra cores, so the steam enclosures will be good for the upgrade. Plus the initial wave of excited slave cores can be nickel based, nobody says you HAVE to superheat everything right off the bat as the cost involved in E-Cat X will be greater due to esoteric materials that have to be used. There is a big enough market for wet steam (nickel based) to provide a good starting point.

You will also note that Industrial Heat arranged all of this progress, but Woodford takes over now as the majority investor. But since they are buying into the Industrial Heat plan, that might not change things up initially very much -- everyone is focused in on a successful launch next year.

Brillouin must be munching on green liver envy as they see their $$$ 20 million $$$ that THEY NEEDED SO DESPERATELY for their proof-out pilot plant going instead to Rossi for his first full production plant.

Rossi's lead by the end of next year may well be insurmountable.

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« Last Edit: 10/01/15 at 05:39:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #184 - 09/30/15 at 09:38:45

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/28/not-just-nickel-but-palladium-and-platin...

Not Just Nickel, but Palladium and Platinum on the Table for the E-Cat

Posted on September 28, 2015 by Frank Acland • 13 Comments

"We don’t know for sure what the E-Cat X is comprised of, but Andrea Rossi has said it uses different materials in the reactor compared to the old version of the Hot Cat tested at Lugano which used nickel powder along with lithium and hydrogen. From some recent comments by Andrea Rossi and Tom Darden it might be that the E-Cat X is using either palladium and/or platinum.

Steve Karels asked Rossi today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics the following questions, and Rossi’s answers are provided:

Dear Andrea Rossi,

In you posting with Hank Mills, you indicated that eCat technology with other metals, namely Palladium and Platinum, might be possible even though they are more expensive than Nickel. Can we therefore assume:

a. You have experimented with Palladium and with Platinum in eCat technology use? AR: yes
b. Are you saying that for specific, unique applications, Palladium or Platinum might have a possible advantage over Nickel? AR: this issue is the subject of a patent we are preparing

Separately, in Tom Darden’s interview with Fortune Magazine he specifically mentioned platinum and palladium when he talked about the patent that Andrea Rossi was recently awarded by the USPTO. He said:

Rossi was awarded an important U.S. patent recently, which is part of what we licensed, covering the use of nickel, platinum or palladium powders, as well as other components, in his heat-producing device.

The fact that Rossi is currently preparing a patent that covers Pd and Pt may be a hint that they are used in a technology they are currently developing — this could point to the E-Cat X.

One issue the use of palladium and platinum raises is that of cost. Nickel is far cheaper than these metals, and being able to use a common metal like nickel in an E-Cat has been one of the attractive features of E-Cat technology. If Pd and Pt are going to be used in the reactor mix it would raise the price of fuel — although it may be that only small amounts would be needed. If demand for E-Cat technology was high, this could also drive up the price of the metals used. There’s not much information to go on so far, but Andrea Rossi seems to think that there are a lot of advantages in the E-Cat X compared to the old Hot Cat (although he does not specify exactly what they are), so maybe if there are cost differences, the advantages may outweigh the extra expense."

And, from the comments below:

Omega Z • 2 days ago
Note, aside from the rest of my post, I found something of interest that may be a clue that Rossi is playing with Platinum or Palladium. Nickel is ferromagnetic where Palladium & Platinum are Paramagnetic. I was unfamiliar with paramagnetic.

On Wiki- Under Paramagnetic, there is a section on "Curie's law"
Is this reference to Rossi's M. Curie X-cat
Also separate on Wiki- Curie's law and Palladium hydride.
----------------------------------------------------------
Some time ago, someone(?) involved in LENR determined there isn't enough Palladium and Platinum in the world to supply all the Worlds current energy needs even with 100% recycling. Note those energy needs will increase by at least 2 fold in time.

Platinum occurs at a concentration of only 0.005 ppm in Earth's crust.
Best guesstimates is there's about 66,000 tons of Platinum on this planet(Almost all of it, some 95 percent, is located in the Earth’s crust of South Africa) & even less Palladium exists & much of it wont be reclaimable. Thus, one of the reasons they are looking for alternative materials for batteries, catalytic converter, fuel cells and such.

Note even at present prices(A temporary market situation), many mines operate in the red. It's expensive to extract at 3 to 4 grams average per ton of raw material.
----------------------------------------------------------
This however doesn't exclude the possible use of Palladium and/or Platinum in LENR. It could be alloyed to Nickel with Nickel being the primary. Thus insignificant amounts of Platinum or Palladium may be needed per reactor charge & the net gain being greater then the 2.

Platinum or Palladium devices could also be used for special requirements where the cost is offset by the benefit. Note that a gain in temperature isn't necessarily the primary gain in LENR. It could be a gain in performance (Increased COP or stability) at the same temperatures.

Palladium's melting points is 1554.9°C. 100°C higher then Nickel. Platinum is 1768.3°C or a little over 300°C higher. Also, As the temperatures increase, containment(and accessories) becomes an issue that require more exotic & expensive materials.

Me, I think Rossi is making new avenues into new reactions and new materials -- remember please that Rossi has to teach himself each new piece as he stumbles into it, whereas Industrial Heat and Woodford would just go hire an expert in that field to collaborate with them during development.

Rossi's ego is getting in the way some already. As is his compulsive need for secrecy.

Soon, the knowledge base will erupt from being Rossi centered to being Corporate Lab centered and then things will REALLY begin to move on out .......

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #185 - 09/30/15 at 15:17:54

Today the EU Patent Authority reviewed the patent for Pantinelli vs the patent for Rossi that was granted in the USA and they threw out Pantinelli's patent. It has been officially disallowed.

Right now Rossi is the only one with an active patent on this thing that isn't Chinese, Russian, Japanese or Swedish. Those could get disallowed quickly according to later filing dates AND a lack of functionality both of which can be proven at this point if Rossi's legal team moves on it quickly enough.

Rossi's legal team which includes lawyers for Industrial Heat, for Cherokee Investments and for Woodford Investment Management are jointly proceeding to remove the conflicting patents granted in other countries by people who can't really make their stuff go beyond a 3 COP.

Removal of these garbage patents is timely NOW before beginning of full plant production of Rossi's devices.

Pantinelli was the only one with a chance of proving previous art but the previous art wasn't able to be proved, and due to the late date of his filing and the fact that Pantinelli actually made claims for stuff that he can't prove that he actually ever did but it was stuff that he just saw Rossi doing. They worked together for a while, you know. They were friends, even.

The lawyers are out now in play and it's going to start to get nasty. Each camp will have to put up or shut up.

Billions are at stake -- and nasty is simply just the name of the game at the founding of a new industry.

3 billion in first year sales is at stake right now, if the Rossi patent can be pre-defended by preemptive legal strikes against the also-rans (doing it early, while the other guys really don't have anything to show).

Get rid of all the competition that you can, those that have weak low COP LENR processes and weak, vague patents. If you don't go after them now, then they will come after you with a crop of restraining orders when you start your real production runs.

They will each want money from you as you are successful and have the big money and they don't -- but they can try to stop you from proceeding with a simple restraining order unless you choose to reach a settlement with them. OR, by overturning their patents now, you stop them from having that ability.

Then the Rossi Crew can feel comfortable enough to go build their robotic plant and go about the doing of it .....

Undecided

The Mitsubishi patents are worrying as Mitsubishi has more money for better lawyers than they do. Plus it's Japan, Japanese commercial patent law.

The NASA work and DARPA work can't really be touched, as you can't sue the Government.

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« Last Edit: 10/02/15 at 02:42:26 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #186 - 10/06/15 at 06:51:28

http://experimentalmath.info/blog/2015/10/interview-with-andrea-rossi-lenr-en...

Rossi attempts a small interview

Rossi isn't the best PR face his group can put forward -- it is a fact. His interview is stilted and he still suffers through the "translational English" effects with his answers.

However, he came forward and he tried and actually he kept his foot out of his mouth. And it was an interview by two somewhat respectable scientific reporters who had no immediate axe to grind with him from his past or whatever else folks have hated on him for so much in the past.

Rossi has given up on convincing people of anything, he is less than 5 months from going commercial and his 20-80 COP results are oozing out of multiple trustworthy INDEPENDENT mouths now.

How so, these independent, trustworthy mouths?

How about the US Navy NAVSEA WARFARE CENTER ???

Click on it, less than 3 minutes and WELL WORTH LOOKING AT http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Attachment/386-IEEE-brief-DeChiaro-...

This military briefing presentation is the best current summary I have ever seen. Nothing but the verified facts, jack.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc Reply #187 - 10/06/15 at 07:18:12 If this works out the way I'm hoping, this could be the greatest scientific leap of my lifetime.And my generation has SEEN some leaps.
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #188 - 10/06/15 at 07:34:23

Did you notice this little nugget on the 3-4 slide .....

JWK Int. & SPAWAR saw 100% reproducibility with Pd/D2 co-deposition before
SPAWAR effort was shut down (RASO scare), 2012.

The Navy shut down its own experiments due to the "RASO" scare as they were looking at something back in 2012 .....

Wonder what they melted down or blew up .....

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #189 - 10/06/15 at 08:29:49

This one was of interest for me...

Quote:

Experimental Results Since 1989
– Excess Heat >> chemistry (F&P, SRI, CL, Bockris, Storms, Energetics, ENEA, Miley, Swartz)
– 4He, commensurate with excess heat (SRI, China Lake (CL), ENEA)
– Low intensity, soft X-rays (0.5-20 kev), (SRI, CL, SPAWAR, Karabut)
– Tritium Production; a species of nuclear ash (BARC, Bockris, Storms, Claytor, SPAWAR, SRI)
– CR-39 tracks suggest MeV neutron emission. (SPAWAR, BARC, Takahashi, Jones, Mizuno)
– Many nuclear transmutations, ΔZ = +2, +4, +6 (MHI, Mizuno, Bockris, Dash, SPAWAR)
– Sensitivity to radio freq & near IR stimulation (Bockris, Letts/Hagelstein, NRL).
– Emission of strong RF signals near 85 GHz (ENEA) and 1-5 MHz (NRL).

You have to shield it from internal x-rays, external RF, and internal RF.
Who knows, maybe somebodies cb radio will send it into overdrive and crater you.
And RF emissions will be the way to extract electricity from it.

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #190 - 10/06/15 at 08:57:18

verslagen1 wrote on 10/06/15 at 08:29:49:

This one was of interest for me...

Quote:

Experimental Results Since 1989
– Excess Heat >> chemistry (F&P, SRI, CL, Bockris, Storms, Energetics, ENEA, Miley, Swartz)
– 4He, commensurate with excess heat (SRI, China Lake (CL), ENEA)
– Low intensity, soft X-rays (0.5-20 kev), (SRI, CL, SPAWAR, Karabut)
– Tritium Production; a species of nuclear ash (BARC, Bockris, Storms, Claytor, SPAWAR, SRI)
– CR-39 tracks suggest MeV neutron emission. (SPAWAR, BARC, Takahashi, Jones, Mizuno)
– Many nuclear transmutations, ΔZ = +2, +4, +6 (MHI, Mizuno, Bockris, Dash, SPAWAR)
– Sensitivity to radio freq & near IR stimulation (Bockris, Letts/Hagelstein, NRL).
– Emission of strong RF signals near 85 GHz (ENEA) and 1-5 MHz (NRL).

You have to shield it from internal x-rays, external RF, and internal RF.
Who knows, maybe somebodies cb radio will send it into overdrive and crater you.
And RF emissions will be the way to extract electricity from it.

Remember as you read this, some of these guys are using an arc discharge to release all available energy from their particular form of nickel substrate. Some are blasting small palladium wire sections with some"explosive" results. Some were searching for rocket engines. some were searching for other things. All are experimental looking at this stage of things, with none of them having built a full scale prototype plant yet.

There are an easy dozen ways to do LENR now .... only one way so far has high enough COP and no known radiation other than heat that has ever escaped the reactor vessel itself. And that's Rossi and his ECat.

Me, I want to see NASA's experimental Mars rocket plant crank up .....

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« Last Edit: 10/13/15 at 05:19:40 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28760 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc Reply #191 - 10/12/15 at 14:35:20 Just noticed the "carbon bubble" report was on the LENR site. I also found numerous new tech using the campfire to generate electricity. It appears they are gearing up for the "new fire".
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #192 - 10/12/15 at 18:29:50

Yeah I read that like you have a EU regulatory agency now saying that you're going to have to be careful about phasing in LENR and the other black swans for fear of disrupting the entire economy.

I still see 3 to 4 completely different technologies being developed to do different ranges of energy production "most efficiently".

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #193 - 10/12/15 at 23:21:03

disrupt the economy.
Eliminate wars for resources, sold to us as invasions to spread democracy. Leave money in the pockets of consumers. Rossi gets rich beyond measure. American exports of weapons fall.Dramatically.
Economic turmoil for the war profiteers. Savings and energy independence not just for America, but think what this would mean for third world countries where people cook on open fire in the home, smoke in their lives, damaging the health of the family. They lied to us about the technology for twenty years, now, since it appears to be inevitable, scare tactics are being used. It's a competition to satisfy a need. The winner needs to be chosen by the market, not the owned and operated legislators, many of whom are heavily invested in oil.

Since oil is in the dollar a gallon range, why is a quart still five bucks?

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #194 - 10/15/15 at 05:33:09

I know several of you guys are following along on the E-Cat World pages now, but did you catch this one deep inside a comments page?

Topic was why no neutrons escape the basic E-Cat, ever. Reason is that the triple steel shell construction Rossi seems to prefer always stops any very occasional stray low energy neutron -- even during the rare melt down events.

WHY DID ROSSI DO THIS? Answer is in his original memoirs as being written and published ongoing by Matts Lewan (he releases a new edited version with new chapters every year or so).

This is an excerpt from Mats Lewan's An Impossible Invention describing a time when Rossi detected neutrons when pushing the E-Cat to its limits.

"Rossi continued to experiment with his reactors in Bondeno, among other things to test the reactor’s limits. One way was to push it harder, to where it was self-sustaining, without assistance from the electric heating cartridges. He knew it was dangerous because the reaction could become unstable. He later described an incident one night in June 2010, when he was, as usual, working alone in the laboratory and the temperature inside the reactor began to rise uncontrollably."

"In the balmy summer night Rossi followed the temperature development in the device that was set up in the spartan hangar with its gray concrete floor and gray walls. None of his measures to suppress the reaction helped yet he stayed stubbornly to see what he could learn. It exploded finally and loudly while a couple of parts flew across the hangar. This time Rossi was scared. Unlike earlier explosions, this time he was wearing the radiation detectors Focardi had taught him to use and they were full of bubbles—a sure sign of dangerous neutron radiation. How strong the radiation dose was he did not know but it probably decayed quickly. He knew that the reactor materials were not radioactive and had now learned that the weak radioactivity during the reaction should subside within 20 minutes after the reactor was stopped. No harm done, he noted, but he also thought that he must establish greater safety margins and keep the reaction running with support from the electric heaters in the future."

Mats Lewan. An Impossible Invention (Kindle Locations 1436-1441). Mats Lewan.

Why is E-Cat safe? It is designed to be safe. And now that Rossi has better equipment, he runs a recording Geiger counting device on his work bench at all times so he can see what these little unexpected events actually do. Rossi has melted down hundreds of E-Cats by now, and it is also worth noting that E-Cats no longer build up pressure inside trapped vessels any more no matter how hot they get, but are designed to run at slight negative pressures once the lithium melts and coats the nickel powder grains.

Plus there is always a weak point provided in the innermost core of the device which is intended to melt and vent the thing so no explosive internal pressure is ever produced by any gassifying materials at very high temperatures. All vaporous lithium gasses, etc. stay inside a tri-shell Rossi design anyway until they can cool down and re-solidify.

Rossi, unlike most other past break-through scientists like Tesla, is having his trials and times carefully recorded and published AS THEY HAPPEN by qualified biographers.

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