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The Chrome Wars (Read 9524 times)
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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #75 - 10/02/14 at 08:29:58
 
What happened to windows 9?  Just seen this in yahoo news this morning...

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/windows-10-undoes-the-disaster-of-windows-8-mostly...

Treading water with a broken arm.....
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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #76 - 10/02/14 at 09:19:32
 

Microsoft lost count on their own chain of little stinky Sophias.



Roll Eyes     <poot>    <poot>    <poot>    <poot>   ..............    <poot>  
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« Last Edit: 10/03/14 at 01:39:06 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #77 - 10/03/14 at 02:14:16
 

Now, MS claims that "this same software" is going to run on tablets and phones.

One suspects some "exaggeration for effect" here, or else Win 10 is going to have to go on a diet.

To pull this off for tablets and phones, Win 10 is going to have to make a lean and quick software -- finally.
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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #78 - 10/04/14 at 07:03:49
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/acer-chromebox-is-now-available-for-180-and-up....

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/hp-chromebook-14-nvidia-tegra-k1-now-available-...


Acer drops a new Chromebox and HP drops a new Chromebook (Tegra K1).


It seems to me this makes about a 10:1 ratio of low end things going to Chrome rather than Windows.

This is not good for MS since NONE of their new HP Streambook stuff is becoming real very fast and may not make it in time for Christmas.  

This also may be a function of the laptop manufacturers realizing that they have whole warehouses full of Windows stuff to get rid of before Win 10 comes out next spring.    

They may feel that they don't need to add to the pile of losses they are going to take before summer of next year.

MS needs to come out with the "free upgrade to Win 10 promise" real soon so some stuff will start selling ....
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« Last Edit: 10/05/14 at 16:44:43 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #79 - 10/05/14 at 16:25:12
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/wsj-hp-split-two-companies-pc-enterprise.html

HP to split into two companies (PC and enterprise)




MS's buddy HP has got some serious profit problems and does not think this year's end big sell off on all those Win 8.x laptops and tablets and stuff is going to help their bottom line at all.

As a matter of fact, to avoid a doom doom doom scenario HP is going to split itself into two parts ASAP, with all the good parts (printers, etc) going to the Enterprise Side and all the "suck us down into the dirt" and  "bound to make us fail" stuff going to the Consumer Side.

Then HP as Enterprise can still survive even if HP as consumer cannot.



So, Microsoft, don't be looking for those likely to fail StreamBooks to be coming out any time soon, Microsoft.



Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink   Wink



Microsoft, guess what HP Enterprise thinks is your very best selling, very most successful MS software?  


Smiley      Yup, Windows 7  .....



http://liliputing.com/2014/10/hp-plans-split-2-companies-2-better-one.html


"It’s too early to say whether the split will result in better products for either consumer or enterprise markets. But HP is certainly hoping that two companies will be more profitable than one… or at least that if one fails, the other can still succeed. Profit margins for consumer devices have been shrinking in recent years thanks to falling prices of laptops, tablets, and other computers."
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« Last Edit: 10/06/14 at 08:35:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #80 - 10/07/14 at 06:13:42
 

SALES FIGURES ARE IN FINALLY FOR FIRST HALF OF 2014


So, how is the Chrome Wars doing, based off of first half 2014 sales figures?

Two different guys are reporting on two different markets, so let's try to keep them straight and then combine them into some sort of meatball "general percentage".

First chunk of data is "business to business sales" or COMMERCIAL SALES.   This includes schools, colleges, commercial businesses, ie NOT YOU.

"Chromebooks accounted for 35% of all US commercial laptop sales during the first six months of 2014, according to the research firm NPD"."

35% of all business sales is a very respectable number.  But what about Consumer sales, that much much harder to track sort of number?
   
"Gartner says that more than half of Chromebook sales in 2014 will be to consumers."

Sooooooo  ......   meatball time.    I predict Chromebook sales this year to be at least a solid 20-30% of all laptop sales.   Maybe more, if Christmas does real good like it did last year.  

At this number, I would say ChromeOS has become a viable minor alternative to MS Windows overall and it is the leading or commanding alternative in the lower end of the laptop market.

The Core i5 chromebooks have come out now and reviewers all say the same thing, a Chromebook doesn't need the bigger badder battery power sucking Core i5 Intel processor.   To get the same relatively small bump in speed, simply put 4 gigs (or more) of systems memory into a much cheaper Haswell chipped Chromebook and have at it.   8 gigs of systems memory is shameful wasteful total overkill, 6 gigs is moderate overkill and 4 gigs is jest about right.   The stock 2 gigs isn't enough .... so buy it with more memory on sale in a few months.

Be careful to buy a unit with memory expansion room, HP for example swings cheap and only has ONE memory card slot in some of its Chromebooks and Chromeboxes.   This sucks.

Graphics speed counts somewhat more than processor speed in Chromebooks, which is why Tegra K1 seems to be doing so well.   Default Intel graphics in the early Haswell isn't the best, so pick your Chromebook accordingly.

Performance wise, Chrome is kicking MS Window's butt on every item tested.   Early Win 10 testing says the same thing, Windows is still fat and porky and slow.   Windows is jest plain "giving it all up" to the Chromebooks performance-wise.

The handwriting is up on the wall now ..... software makers are rushing to get their product on-line with a license key that you purchase which allows you full access to the on-line and off-line product.   Server based processing "power" support comes with the rented on-line package, so a chromebook doesn't need all that huge CPU muscle to make a CAD software recalculate.

Prediction:  Major Software will move to the web in 2015-2016.

Computing is changing, and MS really isn't keeping up with the swing to the web all that well.



Wink     One (1) old style Elephant per household, hooked up to a printer and a scanner.   Rest can be tablets or Chromebooks.    
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« Last Edit: 10/07/14 at 21:07:08 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #81 - 10/07/14 at 07:20:53
 

Lastly, Google has just now started pushing "Chromebooks for Christmas".    Google sells ads, yes, but when they have an unrented spot they are dropping in some filler ads for Chromebooks for Christmas.

When you click, you get some ChromeOS specific encouragements and a listing of everybody's chromebook products and a bunch of sources (Google customers) that sell them.

Smiley

Microsoft couldn't buy that kind of ad campaign package, and Google can do it easily at no real cost to them.


One would hope that Google can fill all their ad spots with paid ads, but plugging their own stuff in any unpaid gaps sure beats that "empty billboard" look, now don't it?

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« Last Edit: 10/07/14 at 20:52:49 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #82 - 10/09/14 at 07:55:32
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/first-look-zotacs-palm-sided-windows-pc-coming-...

First look: Zotac’s palm-sided Windows PC





"Intel’s Atom Bay Trail processors have breathed new life into low-power Windows tablets and notebooks since they first hit the streets in late 2013. Now it looks like they’re doing the same for compact desktops.

For $200, you shouldn’t expect a no-compromise computer. The ZBOX PI320 pico appears to have single-band WiFi. It recognizes my 2.4 GHz WiFi network, but not the faster 5 GHz network in my home office. And while the Atom Z3735F processor can handle 1080p HD video playback and general-purpose computing, it’s not fast enough for serious gaming and while you can use this little computer for CPU-heavy tasks such as video editing, it will take a lot longer to render a video than a machine with an Intel Haswell processor."


By the end of next year this sort of stuff will be more and more common, and with loss leader price supported 14nm lithography coming from Intel the CPU power level will be quite nice as well.    It will come with Win 10, perhaps the new lighter faster version which HAS to be made soon to support all those proposed MS tablets and phones.

Here is a cut to a video of Brad handling and hooking up the little box -- tiny !!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NazuzQfX9_Q#t=102

Why is this video worth watching?   You can watch a real uber geek picking up what he has on hand and putting together a den-style media machine literally inside a couple of minutes, all software included.   It is fun just to see Brad's working speed in action.   Remember, he's filming this, narrating it and futzing with the camera all at the same time he tosses all this stuff together .....

Current chipset in this one isn't worth having, nor is the BingOS it runs so don't get it now -- it just shows you what is coming next year that may indeed be neat enough to own.    

I count this $200 device (carrying over $100 in price supports) as the only MS competitor for the Chromebox right now.

So, the Chrome Wars are now engaged on all fronts and your options are laid out in front of you.   Intel and Microsoft are getting closer on getting price competitive with Chromebooks and Chromeboxes AND MS's SPEED AND FUNCTIONALITY IS GETTING BETTER TOO.   Not there yet, but getting closer.    

Both Intel and MS are showing signs of "getting it" now.   They are EACH giving up over $50 each in price supports per Chrome War unit sold, which still leaves their products priced about $50 too high to be truly price competitive with the low end Chrome products.    

But they at least show signs of knowing where they need to go.   Net real price difference is now about $100 plus a bit more to have a real profit margin for the manufacturer.   Then they will be on a level playing field out there in the Chrome Wars.

Wink    ..... well, being $100 off the pace on a $160 Chromebox unit isn't really very close, but it is getting sorta kinda CLOSER .....

Grin

Change, she comes .....
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« Last Edit: 10/10/14 at 08:02:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #83 - 10/14/14 at 06:27:54
 

http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/13/mele-pcg03-intel-quad-core-mini-pc-sel...

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/mele-pcg03-tiny-low-cost-intel-powered-mini-pc....





Mele PCG03 Specifications:

SoC – Intel Atom Z3735D “Bay Trail” quad core processor @ 1.33 GHz (Burst freq: 1.83 GHz) with Intel HD graphics
System Memory – Optional 1 or 2 GB DDR3
Storage – Optional 16, 32, or 64 GB eMMC + micro SD slot
Video Output – HDMI 1.4, VGA and Composite (RCA),
Audio I/F – HDMI, Stereo RCA, optical S/PDIF, and MIC and earphone jack.
Connectivity – 10/100M Ethernet, 802.11 b/g/n Wi-Fi
USB – 2x USB 2.0 host
Power Supply – N/A

Now THIS is a potentially real (but graphics weaker and slower running) chromebox competitor.  

Coming out of Mele from China at a $49 mfg cost (likely around $100 landed in the USA price point) this is a bare bones priced Mele box that takes advantage of the Intel chipset loss leader pricing, the intel Tech Support dollars AND the free BingOS from MS.

We have not seen all the details yet, but some earlier deluxe Mele boxes had SATA jacks as well (the drive sat vertical to the motherboard and had a slot in the case).  The next version of this basic box will have some added features if it is successful in China.

This box will likely sell well in China and in the 3rd World where things don't have to be bloody fast all the time, just so they do work.

This is the first really successful fruit out of MS and Intel's efforts as they didn't pay Mele to do this box (well, no direct bribe was needed, just the standard technical support $$$ and the standard loss leader pricing on the chipsets and the free Windows).   Mele came out with this themselves.

I suspect the Chinese will continue to use this Wintel stuff until the price supports end, but by then Intel will have accomplished getting into the Chinese supply chain and MS will have their Chinese market presence with their Windows OS.

SO, IF INTEL AND MS CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO REMAIN PROFITABLE (as whole corporations) AT THESE BELOW COST PRICE POINTS AND TO CONTINUE DOING THEM OUT INTO THE FUTURE THEY MIGHT WELL WIN IN THE CHROME WARS.

This last little desktop computer (because that is what it is) signals a reverse flow point in the Chrome Wars.  If Intel and MS can continue selling at such a strong loss leader position then the $79 dollar cheap Windows tablets and the $100 cheap Windows desktops can continue rolling out of China then they will continue their come back against Android and ChromeOS.

Intel is using their high profit big chipset's excess profits to fund this trick, and MS is using the large flow of support dollars from US business market to fund the free Windows.

And, yes they CAN continue doing this for years and years .....  but as their low end sales volume finally goes up and up will their stockholders continue to let them dump an ever increasing $$$ flow down that price support rat hole?

Remember, Chromeboxes and Chromebooks make a real profit living in this low end neighborhood.

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« Last Edit: 10/17/14 at 19:33:57 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #84 - 10/16/14 at 10:03:41
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/intel-offers-new-dev-tools-cross-platform-windo...

Intel offers new dev tools for cross-platform Windows, Android apps



"Developers can use the tools to target Windows or Android… or both. That makes sense since phones, tablets, and PCs with Intel chips can now run either Windows or Android. But the Intel INDE tools can be used to develop apps that will run on ARM chips as well as Intel processors.

The tools help developers create, test, and optimize apps using C++ and Java, and since the same toolkit can be used for Windows and Android apps, it can save developers of cross-platform apps the time and money it would take to use separate tools for each build of their software."


This is in direct competition to Android 5.0 Lollipop's Supplier Development Kit which makes an Android and a Chrome app automatically when used.   Microsoft and intel still want you to stay locked into Wintel products as much as they can manage to get you to do.   Note that Apple iOS apps can go in the input side of this Intel tool but have no presence on the output side at all.

This kit will be effective IF Win 10 is a big hit .....  if not, then not so much.
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« Last Edit: 10/17/14 at 07:01:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #85 - 10/16/14 at 19:36:06
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/rockchip-intel-launch-first-chip-together-low-c...

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/23/digging-further-into-intel-c...

Rockchip and Intel launch first TWO CHIPSET NON-INTEGRATED "chip" together for low-cost phones and tablets



"The XMM 6321 chipset features   (in a two chipset non-integrated system)   a XG632 dual-core ARM Cortex-A5 processor and AG620 wireless chip for 2G, 3G, WiFi, Bluetooth, and GPS.

Phones and tablets with the chip should support GSM networks and they should be cheap: Charbax from ARMDevices reports we could see phones priced around $30 and tablets priced at $40 — although Charbax has a habit of mixing up wholesale and retail prices. So don’t be surprised if actual products with XMM 6321 chips cost a bit more than that."


EEEW, You got SOPHIA on the bottom of your shoe AGAIN !!!      Tongue

And like all the previous two dozen little stinky sophias this one is NON-INTEGRATED, requires multiple chips, brown and icky and vapory and smells really really bad.

It is a TWO CHIPSET SYSTEM with a canned 28nm dual-core ARM Cortex-A5 chipset design except it uses the same super cheap dumb phone modem radio that Intel builds in bulk at TSMC.      

Wooooooo ......  such progress from the industry leader.   For this we have waited most of a year now?

Wow, this is what makes it an Intel Chipset ????  
The either 2g or 3g outdated dumb phone MODEM RADIO (not a very good radio either) that Intel builds in bulk at TSMC????

Hang down your head in SHAME, Intel.    It isn't even using your CPU or GPU cores at all ...... Nothing in that chipset came from you at all, really, except that antique modem radio -- you are just bribing Rockchip to put your name on their normal stock low end ARM product and run it with your antique modem radio so you can mislead your stockholders that you finally sold some "Intel" phone chips into China.

More and better information is going to come out on this later on --- we shall see.
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« Last Edit: 10/17/14 at 07:44:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #86 - 10/17/14 at 06:54:27
 

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/rockchip-intel-launch-first-chip-together-low-c...

Adder to Intel/Rockchip release story .....   from the comments section.

D. B. • 8 hours ago

i wish it were a headline saying "intel outs arm contingency plan after rendering x86 moribund through anticompetitive dogshit; coming soon: arm cpus, nvidia gpus, intel branding"


"anticompetitive dogshit"    my    my    my  ......

Such language .... just call it Sophia like all the rest of us do.
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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #87 - 10/19/14 at 11:53:03
 

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/191089-you-can-now-stream-photoshop-to-y...



You can now stream Photoshop to your Chromebook: A huge win for Google

If you remember, the original big protest against ChromeOS was that you couldn't do MS Office or Adobe Photoshop on a Chromebook.

Well, Microsoft put Office on-line a while ago and now so has Adobe with their on-line Photoshop and other Creative Group apps.

The sole hang out now is your mainstream CAD programs,  AutoCad and company .....    

Roll Eyes        really?            Huh

..... whups, I'm sorry about that, MS,   just guess who snuck on-line a while ago and didn't even make much of a fuss about doing it?


https://www.autocad360.com/


OK, how is full Windows better than a Chromebook again?  

OK, when you have no connectivity at all then Windows is better.
 
But really, when was the last time that happened to you?
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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #88 - 10/19/14 at 12:06:44
 

Three more new Chromebooks just hit the street -- and the only low end Windows laptop competitor so far is a "renewed promise" of the Asus Eee X205 netbook that it will use the same tablet chipset as the two new little Windows boxes use and it will have similar very minimal memory and drive resources with which to run the "full sized" fat porky Windows 8.1 BingOS .....

Ratio of reality right now is over a 15:1 Chromebook lead on new low end units right now.

This will change next month when the Christmas sell off starts and the old Win 8 and Win 8.1 laptops get dumped off way way down at Chromebook price levels.

Now, let's say something good about Windows .....      Grin

The "dumping off" of Windows 8.x laptops this Christmas season will move more units numerically than all of Chromebooks/boxes did for the entire year of 2014.    

This presumes that Microsoft will promise all these people free Win 10 when it comes out to get the sell off rolling good.

This also presumes the retail vendors have enough guts to cut prices deep enough to actually dump off all their stale Win 8.x inventory before Win 10 comes marching out in the spring.

If they don't, then the Win 10 sell in may possibly get stalled out by all the existing cut priced old windows inventory units blocking its grand entrance onto the stage.  

The cries for "Completely FREE Win 10 for all our 2014-2015 purchases" will go up at that point in time.

Microsoft may have a better one in Win 10 this time out, or it may not.  It still has to deal with the fact it isn't king of the hill any more at only "10-14% of total devices" market share and the fact that its user base is kinda sorta pissed off at MS for screwing around with them.

Plus, MS is looking forwards towards a 6-8% PC shrinkage rate year on year going on out into the future (and this is before Chromebooks goes to nibbling at MS's shrinking PC market).

As such, it is making feeble attempts to woo its current installed base by actually saying it will "listen carefully to them" when refining Win 10 to its final appearance and features over the next few months.

Roll Eyes

About this last point -- Windows 10 for all devices is VERY NEBULOUS right now.  Win 10 for tablets and phones is positively brown & stinky vaporous right now .....  and this is 6 months out from the April shipment date ????

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« Last Edit: 10/19/14 at 21:26:04 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The Chrome Wars
Reply #89 - 10/19/14 at 21:46:00
 

Lithography news

20nm lithography will only be news for a few short months.  

Apple has shipped ALL OF THEIR 20nm A8 Chipsets now and admits already being in production on the A9 (quad core ??) 14nm chipset at Samsung/Global.  

Samsung and Global have 2 each (4 total) 14nm lines up and running between them right now and all of these are filled up with Apple A9 at the moment.   Remember, 14nm is still sorta slow running compared to 20nm or 28mn.

TSMC is moving their current focus from 20nm planar to 16nm FinFET and the production level crank up of their first production FinFET lithography processes.  

Right now only Samsung and Global (who have a production technology sharing deal with IBM) have a real functional 14nm production capability for ARM chipsets right now.

ARM is done with 20nm at this point, it is moving rapidly down into FinFET land instead.   Other than slight bragging rights, a 20nm is too too similar to 28nm to make it a worthwhile stop for most of the chip makers out there.   They will leap directly from 28nm down to 14/16nm when the time comes.

Resisting this move strongest are the Chinese chip makers,  who will cling to the low low cost 28nm production lines until they just plain have to leave them behind.

Top end ARM chipsets are VERY POWERFUL right now compared to real mobile computing needs.   Very few new state of the art chipsets are needed compared to the vast sea of 28nm dual core and quad core designs that are going into the 3rd World's very first smart phones.   Android itself is going on a diet, requiring EVEN LESS resources in the current predominate mass of the 32 bit OS driven products.  

Android L and the 64 bit systems will create a divide between big processor, big memory 64 bit Android Lollipop systems and the MUCH cheaper thinner sleeker 32 bit Android 1 system types.

Microsoft was intending to go compete against Firefox OS in the emerging 3rd world markets, thinking that Rockchip/Intel was going to give them a low enough cost yet powerful enough dual core A7 chipset to do that.  

So far this has not happened -- not even close.  

Right now Intel is terrified about the Apple designed 14nm quad core A9 as it can substitute freely into all of Apple's laptops at very short notice.  

Intel has told the world that 14nm Skylake for Apple laptops is going to be ready in early 2015 at a very low cost so Intel can keep on supplying chipsets to Apple for laptops.  

Apple has told the world that if Intel bobbles this Skylake Hail Mary pass of theirs that they will lose Apple's laptops to the Samsung/Global produced Apple A9 almost instantly.

And stay lost .... forever ....

Also note that Samsung is once again Apple's current chip maker du jour  ....    Ironic, ain't it?    

Intel wanted that job too, but Apple said no.   Four running lines vs 1 or mebbe 2 lines, not a hard decision for Apple to make for 2015.

The new Artemis and Maya ARM next generation big-LITTLE 64 bit system designs have now been given to Apple (and Apple has shared parts of them with Samsung) so the Apple A9 might have some brand new ARM next generation tech in it as well.    

Remember, as a 33% owner of ARM, Apple gets all the new ARM stuff at least a year ahead of anybody else .....

Wink
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« Last Edit: 10/21/14 at 05:12:49 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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