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2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying (Read 688 times)
wernwilk
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #45 - 10/22/12 at 18:03:24
 
I did clean the filter, thanks for the suggestion though.
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wernwilk
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #46 - 10/22/12 at 18:08:04
 
I checked the fuel flow from the new petcock again and to be honest it looks ok but not great....when i let it flow through the carb bowl drain plug into a container it seems to flow well for a minute then slows to where there are bubbles in the line.  Its still not a dribble but definately slows down.  I tried taking the gas cap off in case of a vacuum but no different.

I am convinced that this is a fuel starvation problem....
I am at the point now where I may put the old vacuum one on and try it again....I replaced it with the raptor as a precaution...

The original problem of cutting out at all different rpm's and intervals I think was from the flooded charcoal cannister and the venting through the emissions system.

This problem now I believe is unrelated.  I could tell my friend just to keep it below 80 I suppose....but I want to get this sorted out for him properly.
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Serowbot
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #47 - 10/22/12 at 19:02:07
 
Well,.. keep the Raptor on it... it's eliminating one possibility...

In fact,.. the only remaining possibility is the small screen under the float needle...
Pull the float needle and clean the screen...
Quote:
when i let it flow through the carb bowl drain plug into a container it seems to flow well for a minute then slows to where there are bubbles in the line.

... the bowl empty's,.. and then flow is slow...
... if tank is venting and Raptor is installed,.. only float needle screen remains to slow that flow...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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07s40scotty
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #48 - 10/22/12 at 20:22:11
 
That isnt a stock carb if the floats aren't brass. I've torn into a 90, 99 and a 2007 all had brass...
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wernwilk
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #49 - 10/22/12 at 21:54:39
 
I have done the screen filter also.

Will test ride again tomorrow and see what occurs...
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #50 - 10/22/12 at 22:23:29
 
wernwilk wrote on 10/22/12 at 18:08:04:
I checked the fuel flow from the new petcock again and to be honest it looks ok but not great....


If I'm reading this right,  your testing the flow directly from the petcock right?  If so you should be getting a nice steady stream the same size as the outlet from the petcock with the Raptor petcock on there. This would also be a reason why you get a good flow at first from your carb bowel then it slows way down after a short time. If not then either you forgot to pull the rubber tubes off that protect the filter screens in shipment or there is an internal clog in the petcock itself.  The raptor petcock is easily dis-assembled and inspected to clear any foreign material out of the flow paths. If my memory serves me right it's just 2 screws to pull it apart.  Also if you had junk in your fuel tank when you changed the petcock before cleaning out your tank the filter screens on the petcock could be partly clogged up causing the same issue,  the fix for that would be pulling the petcock and cleaning the filter screens off the re-installing the petcock.  You are far better off keeping the Raptor on there then going back to the multi-point failure vacuum operated zuki petcock that actually flows less fuel then the raptor petcock does at higher speeds especially after engine mods are done.

R.F.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #51 - 10/23/12 at 07:27:02
 
Fill up your tank, then time how long it takes to flow fuel out the drain in the carb.  I will do the same with mine and we can compare flow rates.  The drain at the bottom of the float bowl is small, so the flow rate should be less than it is from the petcock.

When I tested my Raptor it took 2 minutes, 15 seconds to flow a gallon of fuel when in the "ON" position.  I expect the float bowl drain to require significantly more time - as the drain hole is small.

Is there anyway you can post a picture of the carb you are working on?  This would help confirm what carb you have......no plastic floats have ever been seen on a Savage.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #52 - 10/23/12 at 08:05:13
 

When I tested my Raptor it took 2:15

So,, I read that, I looked at it again, & again,, & I thot about how long it took to fill 5 gallons with the water hose,, ,, then, I saw the :,, Whewww!

I was looking right at 2:15, reading 2.15..
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #53 - 10/23/12 at 08:14:16
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/23/12 at 08:05:13:
When I tested my Raptor it took 2:15

So,, I read that, I looked at it again, & again,, & I thot about how long it took to fill 5 gallons with the water hose,, ,, then, I saw the :,, Whewww!

I was looking right at 2:15, reading 2.15..


I fixed that......2 minutes and 15 seconds to flow a gallon.  That is with a full tank.....the last gallon takes a long time when the fuel level is not flowing into the full height of the little filter on top of the petcock tube.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #54 - 10/23/12 at 17:58:45
 
OK.....tested the flow from the float bowl drain tonight.  Not sure if this will be useful information - but here is what happened.  I put a hose on the bottom of the float bowl that was a snug fit, opened the screw until it was very loose, and timed 12 minutes and 30 seconds to drain a gallon of fuel.  I am not sure if the restriction is the needle/seat - or the size of the float bowl drain.

I had never had my bike over 70 before last night - but I hit 80 for a few seconds just to see what happened.  My helmet pushed up against my face, and my bike kept running strong.  The O2 sensor gauge I have mounted didn't budge.....it stayed right at the 12.7:1 until I let off the fuel and the TEV kicked in.  Not sure what my bike would do at 85, and I may never know.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #55 - 10/24/12 at 00:43:30
 
 
When he capped off the charcoal canister bleeder line to his California gas tank he blocked the "gasoline replacement" air flow into his tank.  

California gas caps don't have vent holes.

Somebody give him a hole size and a location to drill it in his gas cap so he has a vented gas cap.

A Raptor doesn't flow in any form of "restricted fashion" if the tank is properly vented.  It can't flow but in full flow unless the fuel lines are kinked.

Are his fuel lines thick fiber reinforced rubber or are they built of something flimsy that is flexible and can pinch itself off at a bend point?  

Dave found out the hard way why we keep saying use thick nylon fiber reinforced rubber fuel hose (you have a very hard time getting the necessary gentle bends in hose like that to pinch itself off, ever).

Next, get him to read the information imprinted on that carburetor and post it -- our stock carb has never used "an all plastic float assembly", ever.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #56 - 10/24/12 at 03:00:49
 
My California model 97 Savage had a one way vent built into the gas cap.  It would let air in but would not let vapor escape.  That was until the rubber-like mechanism turned to putty.  Scraped out what was left of the valve to open up the air hole.  No need to drill a new hole.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #57 - 10/24/12 at 08:43:19
 
For what it is worth from a Nooby, but I did not see where the fuel line had been replaced from the new Raptor to the carb in the tread.  I just had this happen to me yesterday my bike lost power after a five run at 60 MPH.  First thought was the stock petcock and the issues I have seen here.  I had added an aftermarket in line fuel filter, so I knew I would have to remove that before taking it to the Dealer.  Had issue with him before on changes made while under warranty.

Replaced the line and started to the Dealer.  No issues with the bike diverted from that mission and rode around still nothing.  Got home and split the old fuel line length wise and found what we call a flapper in the line.  This is where the inner layer separates from the hose and with higher flow rates will act like a check valve and shut off or greatly reduce the fuel flow.  When you stop the engine the flow stops or slow the flow down with lower RPM and the flapper gets out of the way for a period of time until high flow returns and then it will drop down into the fuel flow again causing issues with low fuel flow and starvation to the engine.

I have seen this happen in my 30 years in the world of HHP diesel engines in the oil field, but had never had it happen to any of my POVs before.  Never too old to be screwed in a new way.  I have seen the flapper issue drive new a technician to the verge of insanity in the oil field.
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #58 - 10/24/12 at 09:23:57
 
ls650v wrote on 10/24/12 at 03:00:49:
My California model 97 Savage had a one way vent built into the gas cap.  It would let air in but would not let vapor escape.  That was until the rubber-like mechanism turned to putty.  Scraped out what was left of the valve to open up the air hole.  No need to drill a new hole.



Lou saw this same "turning into bubble gum" symptom inside his vac suction one-way valve on his vac petcock -- wonder what the oriental suppliers are using for rubber these days?

Premium quality thick nylon reinforced rubber automotive fuel line hose is cheap to buy at any auto parts store.   You can get a full replacement on all your fuel lines out of a 2-3 foot section and have enough left over to replace your sections when you have to work on them rather than keep reusing the same hose over and over.  

This type of hose FORCES you to use appropriate gentle bend radii that will not pinch off in use.

Get the hose ID that matches your nipples the best -- info is here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211846392/1#1







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wernwilk
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Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying
Reply #59 - 10/24/12 at 09:45:43
 
Thanks Fella's.

I have run an oversize tube from the gas vent pipe down to the underside of the bike, so the tank should breath freely.

The fuel line is a good rubber fuel variety and is not kinked or has any flapping material inside.

Took her for a spin again yesterday and it ran at 90mph for as long as I dared without getting a ticket....absolutely no sign of missing or cutting out...continued to cruise at on the highway at 70 ish and no problems.

Its running like a dream at the moment....strange but true.

I would love to have found a definitive reason for this...I am confident that the emissions cannister being full of gas was causing the running problem initially, along with the very lean running.

The cutting out at speed was a mystery but at the moment is gone.
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