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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1349195537 Message started by wernwilk on 10/02/12 at 09:32:16 |
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Title: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/02/12 at 09:32:16 Hi all, new to the forum. I have a 2009 boulevard s40 and have had a problem which has been steadily getting worse over the space of a year. Hostory of the bike is that the previous owner fitted a used motor from a 2005 due to some damage on the original that Suzuki fought hard not to pay out on warranty. The bike came to me with the motor, it is standard apart from a k&n air filter without any carb re-jets. The bike has always run a little lean due to this and had some popping on the overun. However this aside the bike would go for an hour then shudder and grind to a halt....this has steadily been getting worse until recently the bike could die within 10 yards or 10 miles.... I have done the following so far; - cleaned out the carburettor - cleaned the gas tank and filters - tested the gas cap for breathing problems I have not yet got into the emissions side of things and found a tip over valve, (if this model has one). Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by misterbbq on 10/02/12 at 09:55:46 tested or replaced your petcock? that seems to be a sore spot on these guys. i went and replaced mine with a raptor 'before' it gave me any issue. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by elitemunkeycrew on 10/02/12 at 10:09:11 Purchase this petock: Yamaha RAPTOR 660 FUEL PETCOCK Part # 5LP-24500-01 http://www.ebay.com/itm/200655694620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 Then watch this on how to replace the petcock. It's a three part video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsgQeLjYFNA |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by J C Stokes on 10/02/12 at 17:04:51 You could try the Serobot test to check your petcock, OF Serowbot Test is here, very useful information comes from this test, literally cuts the world of possible troubles in half it does. Any "fuel related" problem should start out with a Serowbot Test (wait for the new person to come back with the results before going on to other things -- half of them won't be needed -- and which half is real is always good to know) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1 New persons with issues should stay with the ONE THREAD approach, this way the helper persons can read the entire history of the problem(s) before responding with the help. If the new person is keeping multiple treads going, part of the info we would need is NOT THERE for us to read. Don't ever tell a newbie to fragment his stuff into multiple threads .... It makes helper persons and moderators start looking like this http://s1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj534/gary95329/Misc/LilPuddy.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/02/12 at 22:36:20 Thanks for the suggestions guys. I have tested the petcock today with a mitivac and there is a good flow. The bike runs great except for this cutting out and dying problem. I have altogether done the following; - Cleaned the carb and set the float height - Checked for any vacuum leaks - Checked valve clearances - Checked all emissions hoses, canister and fuel stop valve. (The canister had quite a bit of gas in it...should this be the case)?? So that's where we are at guys....if it shows these symptoms more I will have to start to think it could be electrical....maybe the coil breaking down under load? Any and all suggestions welcome. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/12 at 22:48:36 & did you use the gauge on the mitivac to check how much vacuum the engine creates & thenb subject the diaphragm to that amount of vacuum or did you just use a tool that creates vacuum & suck the diaphragm over with it with 5 times the vacuum the engine makes? YOu gotta know what vac the engine makes.. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by verslagen1 on 10/02/12 at 23:11:37 next time you have the problem put it in prime. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Oldfeller on 10/02/12 at 23:25:49 796B7C60796762650E0 wrote:
Me, I'd suggest reading the tech thread that you were provided and then doing the test that was specified. The gist of which was to put the cast in place arrow on the lever pointer pointing towards PRIME and set the plumbing up like this: http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/plug.jpg?t=1251936339 Why, because it is a specific test that does a lot of things and tells us a lot of information. You can do anything you want with a mitivac and as Justin points out, you have told us nothing because you didn't do the test as specified. You might have run the risk of overextending your diaphragm by too much suction (yup, it has happened even when people suck on the line with their lips and lungs) and causing yourself a possible new issue with your vac petcock. Try reading the thread http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1 and doing the test and getting back to us with the results. Give you a clue, you either say "nothing changed" or "it ran better", and you have to run it in Serowbot Test Mode for at least two gas tank fulls of gas set up like the picture before you make any judgements on "same or better". This isn't a one shot fast test. Fuel starvation events are occasional and take several things happening for them to occur -- so the test for this takes time for the same several things to occur again and again (weeks of chances for it to all line up again and again). And please do follow the pointer arrow to find PRIME, on some petcocks the arrow is reversed to the overall direction of the lever (lots of years, several petcock suppliers over the years, some petcocks are marked differently). |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/18/12 at 17:11:17 Hi all, update on the problem I posted a while ago. I have done the following since; - fitted the raptor petcock to eliminate that - adjusted the fuel/air screw to smoothen out the idle - removed and inspected the emissions cannister and all valves/fittings (There was gas in the cannister when I did this....am I correct in thinking there should only be vapours in there and not gas)? - Blew through the breather in the tank (I have noticed a small vapor release noise once the bike has been ridden...so there is a vapor lock in the tank as it releases when you remove the cap.....Does the cap breath itself or does the tank breath through the emissions system? The bike is still running lean which i understand is common with these. Please note that the bike has a K&N filter and to my knowledge has never received an upjet. Is rejetting the way to go? If so which size jets/kits are recommended please? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Cavie on 10/18/12 at 18:37:16 You must rejet with K & N no question. Too lean and will hurt your engine if not addressed. I have one on my S40 and one on my VOL. Dodge truck also but that's a horse of a different color. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Oldfeller on 10/19/12 at 10:07:25 4250475B425C595E350 wrote:
California models do not have vented gas caps, all vapors are supposed to be trapped by the cannister system which is then sucked clean by engine vacuum when the engine is running. Filling a California model too full with gas at the pump can result in liquid gas getting into the vapor tube which leads from gas tank to vapor cannister. If you have a gas cap that actually SEALS the gas tank opening air tight, then you have the only one known to exist. (not joking here) Everybody else has caps that weep gas when they fill the tank too full. Somebody conversant with taking the gas cap apart lead him through disassembly and the location and size of the bleed hole on normal models. He has the option of taking all that crap off if it is bothering him so much. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/19/12 at 14:58:53 Update, Today I carefully stripped and inspected the gas cap...all seemed well and squeeky clean. I also tried a mod I heard about a while ago which was to remove the plastic washer from the top of the jet needle...this definately helped a little but there is still some surging. so, from here I will have to decide whether or not my friend should either; - Get a jet kit, (dyno or other) - Leave the jetting and get a $50 or so OEM air fliter MORE WORRYINGLY - the bike died on the ride twice on the freeway..about 6-7 miles in on the freeway with the bike at almost WOT it died, as though the gas had been cut off completely. I clutched it and once stopped I removed the gas cap and listened for any hiss...I could not tell because of the road noise but could not hear any. I tried the starter and it fired right up. Then after the next 4 miles or so it happened again - this time after rolling to a stop I tried the starter without removing the gas cap and it fired up and ran again straight away. Could it be the emissions system that is doing this? If so, how do I eliminate the system - I assume I cut the pipe from the tank low down and let it hang like a normal breather....then I assume I disconnect the purge side of the system from the carb and blank of the carb intake nipple? Or does anyone think it could be a coil breaking down under load - it would seem odd that there is no cool down time needed for the bike to start up again!! Any and all help very much appreciated. The DYING of the engine on freeway is by far the priority for me at the moment. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by raydawg on 10/19/12 at 15:55:42 If your bike has CARB emissions on it, remove the tubing that comes from the fuel tank, for that is where the problem is. I had the exact same thing happen with my Rebel, and it had a new top end under warranty installed. It died the very same day I got it back from service. Those canisters are charcoal and once you have carbon restriction they don't draw enough air anymore. Junk..... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by verslagen1 on 10/19/12 at 16:15:31 Disable the clutch and kickstand safeties and see if it cures the problem. or keep your foot off the kickstand. ;D |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Digger on 10/19/12 at 21:13:55 3B293E223B2520274C0 wrote:
wern, FWIW, I removed my spacer completely several years ago, when I lived in Houston, TX, and did not know about this forum. It made my bike run too rich....I fouled a few plugs. I reinstalled the spacer. IHTH! |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/12 at 21:21:30 When disassembling things with small parts/springs inside, first, sweep the area, get it nice & clean, so if anything hits the floor, it wont be just one of many things on the floor. Then, place a towel below your work area, so, if something hits the floor, it wont bounce & roll a mile. Then, if ya do drop something, be quiet, be still & Listen.If you hear nothing, it stayed on the towel,otherwise, whatever you hear is the part you need, escaping. Hope you see soimething moving & hear something at the same time,, Some people cant do anything w/o their "music",, I recommend a nice, quiet workspace for such a project. If something gets away, move slow, be methodical, carefully examine the towel/rag whatever you used. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by heroicseven on 10/20/12 at 01:29:53 tighten the battery leads? I recently solved a "complex electrical problem" by just going back to the battery and cranking down on the battery leads. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/20/12 at 04:35:53 thanks for the suggestions. To re-iterate, the biggest concern for me immediately is the bike dying....which is sounding more and more electrical....however there was a reply on here suggestion the charcoal cannister, venting problem.... so i am torn. (Also checked battery terminals as matter of course before) |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 08:00:04 I think you should kill one thread & just work out of one, |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by raydawg on 10/20/12 at 18:58:10 7B697E627B6560670C0 wrote:
My rebel would just up and die, in traffic at 50, 60 miles an hour. It seemed the faster I went, the issue was more acute. If you do in fact have a canister, if the bike has CARB stuff from the California market, then it does. The fuel tank vents through it, and since its restricted, it keeps fuel from flowing freely into the system. You said the bike has a rebuild on it, I believe. If that's the case you could have had oil sucked into the canister from blow by, once its in there, in can not be removed.....that was the case of my rebel. The service guys in Washington had no idea that my Washington bought new bike had CARB on it, but I guess Honda makes them that way at time of manufacturing if they think that market might have the demand, if not I guess they just release them to other states not so stringent about emissions. By my own detective work I found the problem on my bike, removed the line going into the canister, from the fuel tank, and it died no more.... But I got a C40 instead of fixing the canister ;D |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/20/12 at 19:48:01 Ok so latest update. The bike is not running lean anymore, I returned to the stock air cleaner and its running much smoother. As for the cutting out problem...I totally removed the hose from the tank that goes down to the cannister. I then removed the purge hose that goes into the carb and capped off the inlet into the carb. So effectively taking the whole cannister system and its hoses out of the equation. Took it on a ride...within 2 miles on the freeway at WOT it died down again, the engine didn't stop this time, I clutched it to the side and after a few seconds of coughing and spluttering it started to run fine again, I could rejoin the freeway and rev through the gears up to speed again.. I have not yet ruled out electrical problems either but it seems odd that its only at WOT that the problem occurs now. I am thinking perhaps the fuel level is wrong and causing starvation at high speeds/throttle opening. When I had the carb apart for cleaning I noticed that the floats are all one plastic piece...am I right in thinking that these are NOT adjustable. If so how do I check and correct the fuel level? |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 20:16:11 either go to one thread or handle it on your own, Im done,. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/12 at 20:47:50 Do the Petcock test, found in the Tech section. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by wernwilk on 10/20/12 at 04:30:01 already fitted raptor petcock. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 06:56:38 When it dies, will the starter turn it over Right Then or do you have to wait? & How long till it will restart? |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by wernwilk on 10/20/12 at 16:32:42 starts immediately.....turns over right away too. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 16:43:53 Can ya haul the clutch in & hit the starter while its rolling to a halt & it turn over? will it start? If so, Im thinking youve got a spider in the bowl,or enough crap in the exhaust to shut the motor off because it cant exhale. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by wernwilk on 10/20/12 at 19:52:30 The bike did not die this time, just stopped revving and would idle with the clutch in whilst rolling...after a 2nd or two of spluttering the bike would rev fine and take off through the gears...its like fuel starvation at WOT...new raptor petcock on there, fresh carb strip and clean, gas cap checked and clear. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by rfw2003 on 10/20/12 at 20:15:08 This may not be your problem, but I had a similar issue when I first changed to the raptor petcock on mine and I did a fuel flow test on the petcock and found it to be severely diminished. Turns out that during storage at some point a bug had crawled up inside the petcock before it was sold to me. Once I took apart the petcock and found said bug and removed it all was fine and issue went away. R.F. |
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Title: Re: S40 dies on road. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 20:15:20 Youre absolutely certain there is nothing in the bowl but gas? Based on what youre saying, Id have to drain the bowl into a glass, drop the bowl & cast my eyes upon it, |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/21/12 at 16:49:03 Guys, firstly it seems I have upset some people on here by having multiple threads, for that I aplogize. I am not familiar with forum to be honest. Back to the latest suggestions. I have had the carb apart and cleaned out thoroughly and am positive there is nothing in the carb but gas. The Flow from the new raptor petcock is good to the eye, (not very scientific I know), when the carb bowl drain is open and the petcock is on the flow is good. The emissions are at present all disconnected and the carb inlet blanked off. The breather pipe for the gas tank is removed for testing also. It is only at when the bike is in top gear and has been at WOT for a minute that the problem occurs....that made me think of fuel starvation as if the carb bowl can not fill up enough at WOT to keep up with demand. The bike coughs dies and when I roll to a halt the engine will idle and run after a matter of seconds. Apart from supply and float level I am a bit stuck to be honest. I will be trying the electrical cutouts (side stand and clutch) to rule them out also but the its odd that this would only happen at WOT. Its very frustrating to say the least. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/12 at 17:16:26 Look in the tech section for Serowbots petcock test. Go step by step. From what Ive heard, it is a very comprehensive, well thot out test. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Serowbot on 10/21/12 at 17:28:40 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
He's got a Raptor on it now... so, flow shouldn't be a problem... (This is why we like all the info flowing in one thread... nobody's upset... we just cornfuzed ;D..).. When you cleaned the carb,.. did you take the top off, and clean the silde?... they tend to gunk sometimes and get sticky... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/21/12 at 18:00:44 Just been out with the clutch and sidestand switches taken out of the loop to eliminate them. Still the same result, WOT about 85mph and it dies, like its run out of gas....it does not stop the motor and when clutched it will cough, stumble and pick back up again after a couple of seconds...then the bike seems to run ok again aside from the odd pop here and there that was not there before the cut out. I've had the slide out a couple of times....it all seemed nice and free. I removed the plastic washer while I was in there last time and it all seemed good as did the diaphram. Does anyone else think perhaps float height/fuel level? |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/21/12 at 18:05:33 as I mentioned, my friend had an engine swap on this bike due to excessive metal fillings present in the top end. He swears that the bike did not show any of these problems before the change and that the problem has been becoming more and common with time. The gas cap always gave that little squeek even before the engine switch and its all been stripped and was spotless in there. otherwise I would suspect the cap for sure, when the bike has died before I have tried it with the cap on and off with the same result. Just some extra info. for the problem. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/12 at 18:27:19 Run it till it stumbles, shut the fuel off,Hit the kill switch, coast to a halt, Drain the bowl into a measuring cup. Find out how much fuel is in the bowl when it cuts out. Thats just me,, that mite be dumb, IDK.. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by J C Stokes on 10/21/12 at 18:35:52 Does it run ok continuous at 75 to 80 mph indicated? |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Serowbot on 10/21/12 at 19:03:12 Don't know how to fix it,... but I'm riveted to the thread... Can't wait to find out if it gets fixed before he gets a speeding ticket from all these 85mph test runs... ;D ;D ;D... Just had to say it... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/21/12 at 19:38:18 Ha yes I too am worried I will get a ticket before its cured...the things you do for friends huh? I do believe it runs ok and continuous at 70-80...it seems to be that last bit of time running wide open that kills it. Is the running gas out of the float bowl the accepted way to measure the fuel level, if so how much should I be looking for? Also, I think I am going to get back into the carb again tomorrow to double check everything and go through it one more time. Can anyone tell me if the plastic floats are in anyway adjustable? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by J C Stokes on 10/21/12 at 21:09:16 Just being stupid, but have you removed the tank, put in 1/2 a gallon of petrol, put the cap on, turned the petcock off and sloshed hell out of the tank and drained quickly it through the cap. This is a try oysters try anything type of test. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Serowbot on 10/21/12 at 23:27:52 As far as I am aware,.. all the floats are brass... There is a niddly-piddly measurement,.. but,... basically, you just want to get them horizontal to the floatbowl plane... (that would be at the pivot point)... There is no adjustment screw or anything... you just bend the contact tab that raises the float needle to adjust... With the bowl removed, blow into the fuel line,...(you'll feel air passing through),.. then slowly raise the floats with your finger until your breath is blocked... that point should hold the floats horizontal at their pivot point, (no more no less).. or parallel with the top of the bowl... Bingo... that be good...;D... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/22/12 at 08:35:43 The floats are definitely plastic with all plastic fittings, I am familiar with the brass type that you adjust by bending the small tab....I am 99% sure there is no adjustment on this bike as the tab is even plastic. I will do the horizontal check as suggested here. When checking the fuel level as posted here previously, I assume you upright the bike, put the clear hose on the carb drain, open the screw and should get a reading level with the gasket surface on the carb? Is this correct? If so and its not where it should be, how is it corrected or is this simply a measurement of how much fuel is getting into the float bowl via the petcock? Also, regarding the suggestion of putting in 1/2 gallon of gas, sloshing the tank then draining out through the cap....is this to ensure the tank is clean? I was curious what this procedure was for? BTW - the tank has been drained and cleaned out previously and was indeed clean to start with. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Serowbot on 10/22/12 at 09:55:45 I'm beginning to wonder if you are dealing with an aftermarket carb... Can you post pics?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by J C Stokes on 10/22/12 at 10:49:06 Ok, if you are sure the tank is clean don t worry about sloshing it. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Dave on 10/22/12 at 11:00:15 I wonder if you cleaned your carb - did you take out the filter that is on top of the seat for the float needle? It has not caused a problem for anyone yet - but you may be the first and this may be limiting the flow to your float bowl during high speed runs. It is part # 20 in the diagram with the link below: http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432120&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118 I have set my float to the prescribed level - and it does not come up to the gasket level. If I put a clear tube on the float drain my level is about 3/16" down from the gasket. I will take a picture of it tonight and post it......I don't think the float tab can be bent far enough to get the fuel level up to the gasket with the bike sitting level. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/22/12 at 18:03:24 I did clean the filter, thanks for the suggestion though. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/22/12 at 18:08:04 I checked the fuel flow from the new petcock again and to be honest it looks ok but not great....when i let it flow through the carb bowl drain plug into a container it seems to flow well for a minute then slows to where there are bubbles in the line. Its still not a dribble but definately slows down. I tried taking the gas cap off in case of a vacuum but no different. I am convinced that this is a fuel starvation problem.... I am at the point now where I may put the old vacuum one on and try it again....I replaced it with the raptor as a precaution... The original problem of cutting out at all different rpm's and intervals I think was from the flooded charcoal cannister and the venting through the emissions system. This problem now I believe is unrelated. I could tell my friend just to keep it below 80 I suppose....but I want to get this sorted out for him properly. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Serowbot on 10/22/12 at 19:02:07 Well,.. keep the Raptor on it... it's eliminating one possibility... In fact,.. the only remaining possibility is the small screen under the float needle... Pull the float needle and clean the screen... Quote:
... the bowl empty's,.. and then flow is slow... ... if tank is venting and Raptor is installed,.. only float needle screen remains to slow that flow... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by 07s40scotty on 10/22/12 at 20:22:11 That isnt a stock carb if the floats aren't brass. I've torn into a 90, 99 and a 2007 all had brass... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/22/12 at 21:54:39 I have done the screen filter also. Will test ride again tomorrow and see what occurs... |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by rfw2003 on 10/22/12 at 22:23:29 7765726E77696C6B000 wrote:
If I'm reading this right, your testing the flow directly from the petcock right? If so you should be getting a nice steady stream the same size as the outlet from the petcock with the Raptor petcock on there. This would also be a reason why you get a good flow at first from your carb bowel then it slows way down after a short time. If not then either you forgot to pull the rubber tubes off that protect the filter screens in shipment or there is an internal clog in the petcock itself. The raptor petcock is easily dis-assembled and inspected to clear any foreign material out of the flow paths. If my memory serves me right it's just 2 screws to pull it apart. Also if you had junk in your fuel tank when you changed the petcock before cleaning out your tank the filter screens on the petcock could be partly clogged up causing the same issue, the fix for that would be pulling the petcock and cleaning the filter screens off the re-installing the petcock. You are far better off keeping the Raptor on there then going back to the multi-point failure vacuum operated zuki petcock that actually flows less fuel then the raptor petcock does at higher speeds especially after engine mods are done. R.F. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Dave on 10/23/12 at 07:27:02 Fill up your tank, then time how long it takes to flow fuel out the drain in the carb. I will do the same with mine and we can compare flow rates. The drain at the bottom of the float bowl is small, so the flow rate should be less than it is from the petcock. When I tested my Raptor it took 2 minutes, 15 seconds to flow a gallon of fuel when in the "ON" position. I expect the float bowl drain to require significantly more time - as the drain hole is small. Is there anyway you can post a picture of the carb you are working on? This would help confirm what carb you have......no plastic floats have ever been seen on a Savage. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/23/12 at 08:05:13 When I tested my Raptor it took 2:15 So,, I read that, I looked at it again, & again,, & I thot about how long it took to fill 5 gallons with the water hose,, ,, then, I saw the :,, Whewww! I was looking right at 2:15, reading 2.15.. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Dave on 10/23/12 at 08:14:16 607F797E63645565556D7F73380A0 wrote:
I fixed that......2 minutes and 15 seconds to flow a gallon. That is with a full tank.....the last gallon takes a long time when the fuel level is not flowing into the full height of the little filter on top of the petcock tube. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Dave on 10/23/12 at 17:58:45 OK.....tested the flow from the float bowl drain tonight. Not sure if this will be useful information - but here is what happened. I put a hose on the bottom of the float bowl that was a snug fit, opened the screw until it was very loose, and timed 12 minutes and 30 seconds to drain a gallon of fuel. I am not sure if the restriction is the needle/seat - or the size of the float bowl drain. I had never had my bike over 70 before last night - but I hit 80 for a few seconds just to see what happened. My helmet pushed up against my face, and my bike kept running strong. The O2 sensor gauge I have mounted didn't budge.....it stayed right at the 12.7:1 until I let off the fuel and the TEV kicked in. Not sure what my bike would do at 85, and I may never know. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/12 at 00:43:30 When he capped off the charcoal canister bleeder line to his California gas tank he blocked the "gasoline replacement" air flow into his tank. California gas caps don't have vent holes. Somebody give him a hole size and a location to drill it in his gas cap so he has a vented gas cap. A Raptor doesn't flow in any form of "restricted fashion" if the tank is properly vented. It can't flow but in full flow unless the fuel lines are kinked. Are his fuel lines thick fiber reinforced rubber or are they built of something flimsy that is flexible and can pinch itself off at a bend point? Dave found out the hard way why we keep saying use thick nylon fiber reinforced rubber fuel hose (you have a very hard time getting the necessary gentle bends in hose like that to pinch itself off, ever). Next, get him to read the information imprinted on that carburetor and post it -- our stock carb has never used "an all plastic float assembly", ever. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by ls650v on 10/24/12 at 03:00:49 My California model 97 Savage had a one way vent built into the gas cap. It would let air in but would not let vapor escape. That was until the rubber-like mechanism turned to putty. Scraped out what was left of the valve to open up the air hole. No need to drill a new hole. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Grayowl on 10/24/12 at 08:43:19 For what it is worth from a Nooby, but I did not see where the fuel line had been replaced from the new Raptor to the carb in the tread. I just had this happen to me yesterday my bike lost power after a five run at 60 MPH. First thought was the stock petcock and the issues I have seen here. I had added an aftermarket in line fuel filter, so I knew I would have to remove that before taking it to the Dealer. Had issue with him before on changes made while under warranty. Replaced the line and started to the Dealer. No issues with the bike diverted from that mission and rode around still nothing. Got home and split the old fuel line length wise and found what we call a flapper in the line. This is where the inner layer separates from the hose and with higher flow rates will act like a check valve and shut off or greatly reduce the fuel flow. When you stop the engine the flow stops or slow the flow down with lower RPM and the flapper gets out of the way for a period of time until high flow returns and then it will drop down into the fuel flow again causing issues with low fuel flow and starvation to the engine. I have seen this happen in my 30 years in the world of HHP diesel engines in the oil field, but had never had it happen to any of my POVs before. Never too old to be screwed in a new way. I have seen the flapper issue drive new a technician to the verge of insanity in the oil field. |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/12 at 09:23:57 627D383B3E780E0 wrote:
Lou saw this same "turning into bubble gum" symptom inside his vac suction one-way valve on his vac petcock -- wonder what the oriental suppliers are using for rubber these days? Premium quality thick nylon reinforced rubber automotive fuel line hose is cheap to buy at any auto parts store. You can get a full replacement on all your fuel lines out of a 2-3 foot section and have enough left over to replace your sections when you have to work on them rather than keep reusing the same hose over and over. This type of hose FORCES you to use appropriate gentle bend radii that will not pinch off in use. Get the hose ID that matches your nipples the best -- info is here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211846392/1#1 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/hose.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/fuelfilter.JPG http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy323/Zaney1/Bikes/DSC01308.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2009 Boulevard bogging down and dying Post by wernwilk on 10/24/12 at 09:45:43 Thanks Fella's. I have run an oversize tube from the gas vent pipe down to the underside of the bike, so the tank should breath freely. The fuel line is a good rubber fuel variety and is not kinked or has any flapping material inside. Took her for a spin again yesterday and it ran at 90mph for as long as I dared without getting a ticket....absolutely no sign of missing or cutting out...continued to cruise at on the highway at 70 ish and no problems. Its running like a dream at the moment....strange but true. I would love to have found a definitive reason for this...I am confident that the emissions cannister being full of gas was causing the running problem initially, along with the very lean running. The cutting out at speed was a mystery but at the moment is gone. |
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