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Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 (Read 2136 times)
diamond jim
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #30 - 03/14/09 at 17:45:36
 
Wow!  I looked it up and that's some interesting reading.  It said they use screens to reduce pressure without effecting velocity.  Cool!  Thanks.  

I'm gonna read some more on it and see if I can get a handle on this concept.  
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diamond jim
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #31 - 03/15/09 at 13:01:33
 
I wish I could say this Ver 3.0

worked as good or better than Ver 2.0

but I can't.  The silver screen one just doesn't have the low and midrange oomph as the ver 2.0.  The top end and roll on from highway cruising acceleration are about the same but the Ver 3.0 has noticeably less power in the first half of the rpm range and feels very similar to stock and pod filter.  That stinks cause I really liked the newest one.  I think the tube length is the biggest difference in that it doesn't develop the same level of pressure change.  I think Verslagen's tip about using screens to decrease pressure/increase velocity in the tube may be a good idea for experimenting with the latest one.  
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #32 - 03/15/09 at 14:26:32
 
Try putting your desk organizer on the stock tube, I gotta feeling the flow is too turbulent.



I put in some super quiet bathroom fans in recently.  I put them in and they were just as noisey as before, so I read the directions (if all else fails) the duct had to go straight out of the fan a certain distance before it could turn up.  The explanation was it had to build up momentum.  Who knew air had momentum?  so changed it around and eureka, it was quiet.

So I'm thinking the same issue applies here and the stock rubber ducky is exactly the length it needs to be.  Therefore your comical assy V1 has a distinct advantage over the HomeDepot rubber connected desk org V3.  So I think a comical org V4 will be a winner.
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T Mack 1 - FSO
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #33 - 03/15/09 at 19:00:32
 
D. Jim,
 I was thinking of your air intake yesterday.  I was doing somethings in the garage and moved something on the shelf to get what was behind it......  Then I looked at what I moved.....   A Krupp Gold screen coffee filter basket.    

Looks a lot like this.


click>> Ebay item 320347797308
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diamond jim
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #34 - 03/15/09 at 22:08:40
 
Kind of like this?  


Thanks.  Hadn't thought of that but I can see where it would have some good potential.  Cool.

There's something else I learned this weekend.  Saturday we took the son to a Boy Scouts meeting at a U.S. Fish and Wildlife bird sanctuary where we saw a film about falcons.  It detailed how the peregrine falcon, the one that does the insane dive from high altitude to catch food, has a unique feature to help it breathe during rapid descent.  Wikipedia puts it like this- "... small bony tubercles in a falcon's nostrils guide the shock waves of the air entering the nostrils, enabling the bird to breathe more easily while diving by reducing the change in air pressure."

Years ago that very feature was studied extensively by designers and engineers.  That research led to the development of a feature on jets that fly at supersonic speeds:


Of course, this is of absolutely no benefit to my experiments or designs but I just thought it was cool when I learned about this.  Smiley  



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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #35 - 03/15/09 at 22:29:35
 
diamond jim wrote on 03/15/09 at 22:08:40:
Kind of like this?  
http://fantes.com/images/3105coffee_filters.jpg

Thanks.  Hadn't thought of that but I can see where it would have some good potential.  Cool.

There's something else I learned this weekend.  Saturday we took the son to a Boy Scouts meeting at a U.S. Fish and Wildlife bird sanctuary where we saw a film about falcons.  It detailed how the peregrine falcon, the one that does the insane dive from high altitude to catch food, has a unique feature to help it breathe during rapid descent.  Wikipedia puts it like this- "... small bony tubercles in a falcon's nostrils guide the shock waves of the air entering the nostrils, enabling the bird to breathe more easily while diving by reducing the change in air pressure."

Years ago that very feature was studied extensively by designers and engineers.  That research led to the development of a feature on jets that fly at supersonic speeds:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/MiG-21_RB23.JPG/300p...

Of course, this is of absolutely no benefit to my experiments or designs but I just thought it was cool when I learned about this.  Smiley  


Shocked  oh, never mind.  was starting to wonder how fast you were planing on going.  
Cause if we go to fast, the coffee won't be ready when we get there.   Grin



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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #36 - 03/15/09 at 23:36:05
 
LMAO!!!

From coffee filters to suppositories.  Who'd ever had thunk it!

That info about the quiet fan was interesting.  I guess the longer tube allowed the turbulence to smooth itself out before the air curved through an elbow.
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #37 - 03/16/09 at 08:16:50
 
Here's a drawing of Ver 4.  



I put it together last night but didn't take any pics and haven't testing it yet.  I took the input from you guys, researched and incorporated the 1) very likely optimal tube length, 2) larger opening for more air flow, 3) longer and more angled inlet tapering for developing air compression and thus velocity, 4) a screen with hopefully the correct % of flow, and 5) direct air inflow.  The info about the screens used in wind tunnels said there is a sweet spot for the % of screen opening.  Too open and the air flows freely without creating much of a pressure change.  Not open enough and air passage is impeded so velocity doesn't develop.  The sweet spot appears to be about 57-58% open.  I think they actually use a series of fine screens where the sum total of open flow is 57-58% as opposed to a single screen with big holes.  The fine screens I think minimize turbulence.  So, mine might work okay and it might not.  Hopefully I can throw a filter over it, mount it and test it this evening.  I might try try a series of screens like below although I have to account for the resistance from the filter material.

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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #38 - 03/16/09 at 09:04:05
 
cool stuff.
The way I understood it, the screen create uniform micro turbulence which settles down quickly to laminar flow.  Now I would think an OF type filter would perform this task quite nicely.
I would reverse the coffee filter so the OD sits in the transition of the reducer (4" to 2") stuff OF filter on top of that and retain it with the screen.  Of course I think it would be better to have an even thickness of filter material.
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diamond jim
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #39 - 03/16/09 at 09:12:59
 
What is "OF" filter.  That doesn't ring a bell with me.  I can try reversing it in the coupling.  I'm learning that with airflow, slight changes in setup can produce major results.
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #40 - 03/16/09 at 09:51:20
 
Pretty sure it's Oldfeller's cheap air filter: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183640744
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #41 - 03/16/09 at 09:55:18
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 03/14/09 at 04:49:52:
Both K&N and I depend on total fiber count to collide with, catch and hold a goodly total amount of trapped fine stuff (and I have a lot more material depth and fiber count available to me compared to K&N).   K&N has determined their cleaning frequency and I have mine doped out to a clean it and relube it once every 2 years when using the 2" thick Nu-foam batting.

OF filter = Nu-foam batting
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #42 - 03/16/09 at 10:18:05
 
Lo-Buck, High Flo, Lo Maintenance,tiny crapgrabber= OF filter
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diamond jim
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #43 - 03/16/09 at 11:18:19
 
Aha!  That stuff does work good.
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Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650
Reply #44 - 03/17/09 at 07:27:30
 
Ver 4 worked good but had a minor problem.   Twice when cruising at 75mph while very windy out I was hit with two very powerful gusts of wind.  It’s been windy and drizzly the past few days.  When the two gusts hit the bike, the bike had a slight surge for a moment.  Nothing major but just enough to notice.  I think the large tapered opening and the pressure change with the gusts of wind had issues working together as the bike was sucking a lot of air at highway speeds.  I’ve had bigger gusts with the other versions on the bike with no problem.  At first I thought the two little surges were an indication that I needed to move up to a 155 main.  But then I realized they both occurred exactly when I felt the gusts hit.  Still, upsizing the main is likely in order.  

I’ve made a Ver 5 which is actually Ver 2 with an even less restrictive cover, more tapered internal tube and filter consisting of cotton gauze treated with K&N oil filter lube.  Up to this point, Ver 2 has been the clear winner.   Ver 5 edges it out as my favorite performer.  

Here is a chart of my impression thus far of engine power/performance over the rpm range using the pod filter, stock setup and Ver 5.


My pod filter performed nicely at higher rpm ranges when max airlfow is needed but doesn't develop as much low end torque.  I believe it is because my pod filter lacked the ability to develop very good vacuum at low rpm.

My stock airbox was great for low end torque as it allowed a good vacuum to develop at low rpm but it had some restrictions to high flow at high rpm that became evident with mods.  

Ver 5 feels like it develops better torque at low rpm than my airbox. I feel this is because it has both the ability to develop a vacuum while having less restriction than my airbox.  In midrange Ver 5 outperformed both.  As for high end, I haven't actually experieced any decrease in the performance of Ver 5 vs pod filter at redline or near redline.  Actually, throttle response feels snappier, the bike pulls harder and it's just more fun riding the highway with Ver 5 vs. my pod filter.  However, common sense tells me that around redline the engine is creating a very good vacuum and the pod filter will start to outperform Ver 5 due to absence of tube resistance.  Maybe, maybe not.  I don't spend much time riding at redline but still I reflected this theory in my chart.  

So, there you go.  
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