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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1236788683 Message started by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 09:24:43 |
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Title: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 09:24:43 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021690.jpg Kamikaze (translated as divine wind)- hey, it sounded cool! Anyhow, it's actually a DIY air intake that I feel maximizes airflow to the carb similar to a velocity stack. I did this mod because I noticed that the pod filter has a siginifcant narrowing of the inside rubber, relative to the mounting flange, that sits right over the carb air inlet- at least on mine. I imagine this narrowing doesn't help air volume and certianly induces some turbulence. I wanted something better, something to maximize the dimension for airlfow while minimizing air turbulence. I feel nothing does this job better by design than the stock snorkel. Here's what you need: - Small piece of air filter material (HEPA vacuum cleaner filter, interior HVAC HEPA filter) - A sturdy container with diameter the size of the ID of the stock air snorkel and a sturdy screw on lid - Dremel tool - Razor blade - Cooking spray A container like this works great. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/supp1-1.jpg 1. Cut the container so that it fits in the snorkel. 2. Cut, grind and open up the top of the lid leaving a shoulder around the top. 3. Cut a 5" cricle of air filter material and fit it over the container opening. 4. Screw cap on the container. 5. Use razor blade to trip excess from the bottom of the lid. 6. Instert the new air filter into the snorkel. 7. Spray air filter material with a light coat of cooking spray. 8. Attatch snorkel to carb. 9. Start bike. 10. Get on bike and ride! http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021694.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021695.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021693.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021692.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021691.jpg Other options are adding a thin metal screen behind the filter. When your filter gets dirty just unscrew the top, replace filter, screw the top back on and trim the excess. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Jimmer on 03/11/09 at 10:00:10 Mr Jim How has the new filter system worked out. I was looking for a way to get rid of the air filter box. Let me know.Thanks for the good pictures and info on your filter up grade. Jimmer Isn't Jim a good,maybe a great name. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by serowbot on 03/11/09 at 10:55:51 and,... any remnants of the Glycerin Suppositories, should only increase combustion!..... ;D |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/11/09 at 11:26:15 I think you need the metal screen. Last thing you need is to suck up some trash and pull the whole thing in. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 12:00:07 I agree on the metal screen. I got some a little bit ago as an option. I'm ditching the polyfill material though. I was looking at the bottom of the bag and I saw lots of little loose fibers gathered there. Obvioulsy it's from the collective total of the bulk of polyfill and a small section itself will have very few fibers. I'm sure that blowing it out before install would remove any loose fibers as well but I'm going a different route now. I also found what looks to be a simple drop in filter- it's a HEPA filter for a portable vacuum cleaner. I'll take pics later and post. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 13:59:47 Here's with the new filter. The filter is for a portable vacuum cleaner. It's built impressively sturdy. Thirty second of trimming and viola! I've bot a metal screen I'm gonna put over the opening. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021699.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021700.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021701.jpg Now for the eval- the snorkel really sucks some air. It's got vacuum cleaner pulling power. Just try it. If you've got a pod filter on and the snorkel laying around, swap it out for a sec and start it up. You'll see what I mean. I can see now how the snorkel vacuum helps the carb work the way it was designed. It creates a true vacuum with velocity as compared to the pod. I've put my hands around most of the the pod filter while idleing and felt minimal vacuum. With this if I get my hand near the opening I can hear the motor instantly start to struggle and die. It's not initially because of lack of air but rather the sudden spike in vacuum, which is already strong with the snorkel, pulls significantly more gas through the jets which quickly makes an overly rich mixture. With no obstruction it revs nicely and strongly but already seems a little rich my jets that worked fine with the pod filter. A word of caution- if you do this mod, be prepared to mess with the jets because it changes the dynamics of the carb substantially. When tuned correctly, I think it will be a significant change in performance. Got rain this evening. I'll take the bike out with the new changes and post updates. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by T Mack 1 on 03/11/09 at 14:17:50 my thoughts..... looks nice ... should work for a while. But.... as the filter material gets dirty I'm thinking that it will start restricting the flow. One of the reasons they use the pleated material in cone filters. More surface area so that the dirt doesn't clog it as soon. But... you could try for a while and see ..... then report back... |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 17:20:52 WOW!!!! Somebody else out there has got to try this! Some of you out there will likely wonder if what you are about to read is an exaggeration. I'm human and I know how humans think. Please, take 5 minutes and try this mod on your bike. Heck, pop the pod off, grab the snorkel, throw a nylon stocking on the end and slap it on for a short trip down the road and back just to see how it works. Now, I don't know how much of a difference it will make on a stock bike or one with the only upgrade being a HD muffler. But, if you've got a free flowing or fairly free flowing muffler and your carb is tuned pretty good and you're running with a pod filter, PLEASE try it. Here's my observations thus far: BIG difference in riding. It pulls like my M50 did after I had done exhaust mods, intake mods and fuel processor (FI). This mod made the biggest noticeable difference than any other single mod I've done. No doubt the prior carb rejetting and exhaust mods helped this mod to make such a significant difference. Noticeably more power on take off. I could certainly feel more torque when leaving from a stop. It was very obvious. Here's a funny thing- I have an 800 foot gravel driveway that I have to travel across 2x anytime I ride the bike. I know exactly where to feather the clutch, where to stay in first, what section to ride in 2nd gear and so on. I've done it so many times I could do it blindfolded. I ride it textbook style and very safely. I've had a buddy go down on it last summer. I respect gravel! When I took the bike out for a test ride, the rear tire kept breaking loose (spinning) on the gravel. I never do this when I ride the driveway. The difference in torque on take off or very slow cruising and easing out the clutch made the tire break loose several times. It scared me the first few times cause I was riding the gravel the way I always do but the bike wasn't handling like I was used to. Acceleration on the pavement from a stopped position was noticeably stronger and consistent from low rpm to high rpm. It felt like the motor progressively got stronger as I went faster. There was no feeling of the torque leveling off that I'm used to feeling just before shifting up. Steady speed then acceleration- really BIG difference here. When riding steady at 40-60mph and rolling on the accelerator, the front end decompresses (raises) and the bike truly accelerates. What a sweet feeling! I haven't felt it like that on a bike in a while. I love that feeling. The higher the RPM the more power it seems the motor has. The motor at no time felt stressed or that I was using the majority of its power. Again, please try it. For many of you it won't cost a dime, just a few minutes of wrenching and a ride. I want to know others experience with this. Versy and T Mack, I went with the metal screen and material from a HEPA filter with a 700 rating, which means the carb won't have problems with allergies either. I got a 2'x2' piece for $6. When it gets dirty it'll take about 2 minutes to replace it. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/11/09 at 17:30:14 Thanks for the tip, I might have to look into something of the sort. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by thumperclone on 03/11/09 at 18:52:57 guess im just spoiled did the k&n drop in the de snorkel 3" hard krome slash cut muff and a turbolator (?) instert on the engine side of the carb have had the ability to pull the front off the oil in second since 1st is too easy a pull up, last year the local brew pub had a batch of barley wine that i had tooooo many of...1 gear wheel stand out of the P lot (70 ft?) this ol fart dont need to be doin that... paddys day comin up better leave suzi in the carrriage house!!! BTW when they re badaged the "SAVAGE" they named it the S 40 S for sport ,40 for cid |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/11/09 at 19:28:03 Thumper, I'd imagine with that setup you are getting some of the performance similar to this setup. That's probably why, when all combined, you are popping wheelies so easily. After riding it this evening I can now see why it would be easy. Here are pics of the metal screen that is glued on to the rim. Obviously this is without the filter material or retainer cap. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021707.jpg From inside. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021709-1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by LANCER on 03/12/09 at 06:58:40 Very nice job; simple and easy to do, inexpensive and effective Looks like a candidate for the "mod of the year" category. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/12/09 at 11:51:57 If you use the auto industry's standard calculation of air required for "nil" vacuum restriction within the air intake system, you should have at least 130% of engine capacity in available air volume between the throttle butterflies and the air filter element. I'm not sure if the same applies for motorcycle but I bet it is similarly 130% or around that number. The Kamikaze tube has a volume of about 30 cubic inches or 75% of engine capacity. That falls short of the 130% recommended above but is improved over the pod filter. In addition, it creates a better, more uniform vacuum as compared to a pod filter and it has no narrowing or other obstruction to airflow at the point where the air enters the carb mouth. My math may be a little rusty but I think I got it right. I think my tube needs about 25% more air filter surface area for pulling air in. I'm working on some ideas to solve this. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by meck on 03/12/09 at 12:28:14 Wow, I like that a lot. It's cheap and easy... I'm currently re-packing my stock filter frame with Poly-Fil as described at http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183640744. However, it will have virtually no resistance, so I'm concerned with running lean since I'm at sea level, have my idle screw 3 turns out and have a #155 main and going up to a #50 pilot. Would I really be able to completely ditch the metal frame filter and enrich my mix in the process? How long have you been running it this way? How's the effect on mileage? Does the filter stay clean enough long enough, or will I be replacing the innards every other week? |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/12/09 at 13:51:19 545C5A52390 wrote:
Meck, I've done about 15 miles with it so far. There were a few stretches of steady rpm riding in there but most was intentional starting, stopping, hard accels and roll-ons in various gears. I'm thinking that the combo of free air + vacuum creates a better environment for pulling the gas thru the jets and then emulsifiying the mixture before it enters the cylinder. Throttle response felt improved. I think it allows the pilot jet air-correction jet to work better IMO. I don't know nearly as much about carbs as many folk on here do and I might have some of the stuff mixed up. I'm sure they will correct me soon enough! Here's an exerpt from an article about the pilot air correction jet: "The Pilot Circuit (also called the primary, low speed or idle circuit) consists of a brass fuel jet- called the pilot jet (in the float bowl), the pilot mixture screw (outside of, but adjacent to the float chamber), and the pilot air-correction jet (in perimeter of the “mouth” of the carb). The Pilot circuit delivers it’s air/fuel mixture through a small hole in the floor of the carb outlet, downstream of the throttle plate. It regulates the fuel mixture at idle and small throttle openings, typically under one-quarter throttle. The pilot air correction jet admits air to the pilot system, through a channel above the pilot jet, as a fuel/air ratio modifier and emulsion improver." I don't know about other's pod filters but mine had a narrowing inside that appeared, when on the carb, would cause some obstruction to the pilot air correction jet circuit. It may not cover it up but the air certainly had to quickly bend 90 degrees up and again 90 degrees towards the carb. I think with the pod filter setup I had, I had some rich spots and some lean spots throught the rpm range. Some of that may have been the jetting/mixture screw setup as well. Testing yesterday seemed to show a smoothing out of these spots. I've got a #55 pilot with bleed holes. My testing included some adjustments with the idle mixture screw. With the pod filter it idled and ran best 1 full turn out. With this mod it seems to run best all the way in. I think the vacuum more efficiently pulls fuel through the pilot jet whereas with the pod filter the vacuum was less so opening it up a turn helped to compensate. I'm not saying this is a sure fire improvement for everyone. I sure made a difference on my bike. Probably using the K&N and filter in the airbox and and desnorkeling the top probably gets you closer to this setup than the pod filter. I would love for a few others out there to try it and see how it works for there bikes. This setup like I've got pictured is pretty sensitive to the material used for filtering. The material has to be as free flowing as possible due to the narrow inlet area to get the true benefit. I've tried several things and the best two so far have been 4 washed and dried dryer sheets (the little square ones you throw in the dryer with the wet clothes), and a piece of filter from an indoor HVAC filter rated at 700 (long explanation on the rating). as far as how long it stays clean? I don't know. I do know the I live on a long gravel road that gets very dusty. I've had my pod filter on since October. I cut it open and removed the material last night. It looked amazingly clean to me. I guess if I have to screw on a new 10 cent cloth once every 3-4 months it will be worth it to me. BTW, here's the whole carb article. It's a great read. http://roadstarclinic.com/content/view/56/96/ |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Staplebox on 03/12/09 at 18:57:02 Can you post a pic of how this looks on the bike? |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/12/09 at 19:17:40 436471607C75727F68100 wrote:
Sure but it might look a little different on my bike than yours cause of some other mods I've done. I'll try to get a pic tonight. The wife and I are painting the laundry room at the moment... well, she is... I'm helping! |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by saluteTOme on 03/12/09 at 19:38:42 I like this. I was going to buy a cone filter, but why spend the money when you can make your own and look decent? I would deff do a metal screen and glue it in place. In gettting rid of the air box what you guys do with the "computer" or w/e the box is on the left side of the bike behind the small body piece? Does any one know the inner diameter of the tube or the inner circumference? (so I can start looking for the proper container) |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/13/09 at 07:31:05 Looks like I've got the final product for my bike. I used some PVC fittings to make this. I tried it out a few minutes ago and it seems to provide a little more power in the upper midrange and high rpms than the previous design but that could just be placebo effect, weather or both. This design does have about a 20-25% larger external opening than the previous containter/screw cap and, unlike the other design, has a tapered internal opening for smoother airlfow in. The larger opening I feel is better for the higher air flow needs when riding at higher rpms. It also gives me another 5/8" of tube length to further help with developing a good laminar flow. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/1-22.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021726.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/3-17.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/4-10.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/5-7.jpg I've got a couple of different internal screens that I might experiment with to see if they make any difference. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/13/09 at 08:08:26 577065746861666B7C040 wrote:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021733.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021734.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021736.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021738.jpg For those that have removed the airbox, I imagine this would work fine with the battery in its stock position. I'll paint it black and put some small "Kamikaze" decals on it. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by SavRon on 03/13/09 at 17:11:07 This mod sounds like it has great potential so far. I'd really like to see this done to a stock bike , etc... no carb or muffler mods, and see what performance it would add. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/13/09 at 18:13:25 I'm pretty amazed with it. It certainly has surprised me. I like to do things differently, to experiment, often just because I want to or can. In this case I wondered what an open filter + tube would do. I surely didn't sit down and do tons of research before hand. I just tried it. That first ride with it was awesome. I bet you could have seen the smile on my face a mile away! Yesterday and today I've been searching out all kinds of stuff on the net to see if I can learn more theory behind it and figure out why it makes a big difference. There's a few members out there that have removed their airbox and put a pod filter on but I doubt few of them still have a stock muffler on the bike. I wish one of them would throw some nylon stocking of the end of the tube, slap it on and go for a short ride and give some feedback. It seems to take the best qualities of both the airbox setup and a pod filter. The airbox with tube is best at producing low end torque and works decently at high rpm. The pod filter works best at high rpm but at the expense of some low end and mid range torque. This is due to the pods inability to develop good laminar velocity at low rpm and therefore not create the kind of pressure difference needed to effectively draw gas up through the jets. I do believe there is a "sweet spot" in regards to tube length. The longer the tube the more resistance which creates more vacuum which then is great for low end torque but then not so great for WOT and steady highway riding. If the tube is too short then there's less pressure change and low rpm power suffers but high rpm is better, relative to a longer tube. Air pressure-wise, figuring the correct length is probably not a lot different than figuring out the correct length and diameter of a woofer/subwoofer port. I thought about putting a pod filter on the tube instead but decided to stay with the open but linear air entry design. I think the air not having to bend as it enters the tube has something to do with the performance realized from it. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/13/09 at 20:17:12 Here's why I think the Kamikaze mod works better than the airbox setup or a pod filter mounted directly to the carb. The first pic below shows the air pathway in stock form. As you can see there are some serious bends the air has to make to get to the carb. This adds resistance. Turbulence created by this path, however, does get resolved in the tube prior to the air entering the carb mouth. The second pic shows air pathway with pod filter mounted as usual. There is a small amount of turbulence as the air makes the curve from filter to the carb inlet. Then once in the carb venturi, the air begins the pressure/velocity changes and turbulence begins to resolve as the air passes over the jets. In this diagram I think the smoothing of the air and the vacuum effect is just getting established at the point that it should be pulling gas through the jets and being emulsified. The third pic shows less air turbulence as the air enters the tube due to less air bending than with a pod filter. Then the pressure/velocity changes, which are needed for the carb to work best, as well as turbulence reduction occurs in the tube- rather than starting to occur in the carb venturi as with the pod filter mounted on the carb mouth. When the air passes through the the tube and then carb venturi, the pressure/velocity changes have already occurred prior to entering the carb. The air passing through the carb venturi is smooth and more effective at drawing gas up through the jets and a better emulsification of the air/gas mixture is achieved. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/carbfunction.jpg Now, all you geniuses and carb gurus out there, tell me where you think my theory is wrong or questionable and how I can make it even better. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by thumperclone on 03/14/09 at 01:06:07 looks/works like a velocity stack now with a 180 "P" trap = ram air!! |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Oldfeller on 03/14/09 at 04:49:52 Jim, Using the stock rubber long intake stack to get the Suzuki tuned "ram boost" is a good idea. Keeping the air resistance through the filter media very low is a good idea. Having lots of carrying capacity and a fine dust removal rate and a nice long service life between having to mess with the filter is a good idea. Having as many of the above as you can get makes the overall good idea even better. Last mountain trip I put aside the idea of putting on the loud Harley muffer that is sitting over in the corner of my computer room as I type because I realized that I really didn't care all that much for all the loud snarly blatts and pops that come with that particular turf. And I also realized that these performance maxed rejetted constantly fiddled with constantly retuned bikes I was riding with weren't leaving me behind at all. Quite the opposite, on the way back just to prove the point to myself I set the maximum interstate pace my old stockish looking wee bagger could do. Lancer kept up and passed me, but he was running his dual spark plug mod at the time so that wasn't surprising. Everyone else lagged behind. Some were miles behind. Real world performance isn't about noise and it isn't about "maxing" this or that -- it is about balanced performance over the range you are working with. Perhaps on that particular rain threatening day at that high mountain altitude my bike's this and that lined up in alignment with the mountain Karma forces better than the exhaust modded bikes did -- I dunno. But noisy and radical wasn't making any real power that exceeded quieter and more reasonable on that particular day. As for your mod it is interesting and potentially very useful to the bobber and minimalists among us. It looks good and it saves some of the ram-tuned performance elements they may have given up previously. You need to run it a while and find out the rest of the story is and fix whatever that might be. On mine you had to sew the element lightly around the edges to keep the air box air blast from peeling it apart -- that was discovered after some use time. You may discover your time to fill up the filter media is short and you need a certain yet to be discovered cleaning frequency. You are using a very thin media with a small surface area. Air velocity and rate of flow thru the media material is relatively high. How are you stopping all the very fine dust like stuff? If you don't trap it and hold it somehow some of it will bounce on through the thin filter and wind up in your engine oil. K&N uses their version of canola oil and I use Mazola frying pan spray (sticky like nobody's business) which traps the little stuff on a contact basis as the air bounces through some depth of material. K&N tries to substitute folded surface area for depth (and that is debatable - I prefer inches of serial fiber depth for my depth) Both K&N and I depend on total fiber count to collide with, catch and hold a goodly total amount of trapped fine stuff (and I have a lot more material depth and fiber count available to me compared to K&N). K&N has determined their cleaning frequency and I have mine doped out to a clean it and relube it once every 2 years when using the 2" thick Nu-foam batting. You are proposing a very intentionally minimalist system that has some trade offs built into it -- perhaps you should stop and explain to the new folks what your filter will stop, what it won't stop and how frequently it will need attention to keep their engine healthy. Our filter philosophy is totally different and we serve different segments of the list -- yours is bobberish and performance oriented and mine is the "we want it cheap, we want it to work well and we don't want to have to mess with it any more than we have to, preferably never". Not much overlap in our audiences, really. My audience is old and radically lazy, actually. Right cheap too. Yoda-like old and wise and right tight with their bucks. Yours is young and enthusiastic. Luke Skywalker let's go toss a firecracker down the exhaust pipe and blow up the reactor enthusiastic. That's OK, I am just jealous of their energy levels and how much they are willing to take on at a given time. You got you a good idea -- keep after it as it looks very useful to the bobber folks who need good looks first, then bike performance as second, then fine filtration and long filter service life as a distant third. Just be clear for the newbies exactly what they are getting with your system and what the trade offs actually are. Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/14/09 at 06:46:47 I had my pod filter off and noticed it had non of the restrictions that you were speaking of. Yet I am still going to see if I can tell the difference between regular cone on carb and cone on extension on carb. Which will be quite awhile from now because my gas tank doesn't get here until Tuesday. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/14/09 at 06:47:47 Oldfeller, those are some great points. Thanks you so much for the feedback. I think this idea is an evolution of what I see and what you all see and recommend. Your experience lets you see things in ways that I may not have seen or thought of. That's why I value everyone's feedback. I keep finding little ways to improve it as do all of you. It might turn out to work great as is. It might turn out to need a 1" larger opening plus a dust cover over the opening, a double filtration system if you will, during the hot, dry summer months for the overall best mix of performance, effectiveness and ease of use. I am now using the filter material that was in my cone filter. It is double layered. I also washed and dried a white dryer sheet and have that on top of the filter media. It introduces minimal resistance but color change will help indicate intervals needed between media changes. I can periodically pull out the dryer sheet specimen, lay it on a clean, unused dryer sheet and observe for color change. I'll take pics and post so you all can see as well. It may not be the most scientific method but I feel it will be effective none the less. There are two things I know for sure- it can continue to be improved upon some how and I know I ain't going back to the airbox or pod filter after experiencing riding with it. Thumper, let me fine tune this setup first. Making it ram air will give me a whole new dish of dynamics to have to solve! |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/14/09 at 11:57:33 547865797265646378657224272727170 wrote:
This is the cone filter I was using. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/conefilter.jpg Here is a drawing of what mine looks like. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/podfilternarrowing.jpg From looking at K&N filters I think they have a larger base and don't have the narrowing like the off brand ones do. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/14/09 at 14:55:57 Here's another design I threw together in about 5 minutes. I had the rubber piece already and saw the metal cup in the house and viola. I'll wrap it with filter material then put a unifilter over it. The bottom is solid so I might open it up and put a screen in there as well so it will still have some direct flow benefit. The positive thing about this is that there is more surface area for the air to pass through and, as others have pointed out, longer times between filter changes. The negative things, in respect to the previous design, is that even with the bottom opened up some of the air still has to bend upon entry and the tube length may be a little too short for developing a good pressure change. I did insert a piece of tapered PVC for a ventrui effect so that will help with vacuum some. It is about the same overall length at the white capped one pictured a few posts earlier. Anyhow, I don't know how it will work. It's raining today, I was bored and found myself wondering what a difference a shorter tube and more airflow area would do. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021743.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021744.jpg |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/14/09 at 17:08:19 I like this one. If you could leave this on the outside, it'd be pretty. DJ, have you ever seen a wind tunnel? They have screens x number of diameters upstream to ge steady flow conditions (high tech word warning - aka laminar) ok safe to look now. ;D |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/14/09 at 17:45:36 Wow! I looked it up and that's some interesting reading. It said they use screens to reduce pressure without effecting velocity. Cool! Thanks. I'm gonna read some more on it and see if I can get a handle on this concept. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/15/09 at 13:01:33 I wish I could say this Ver 3.0 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021742-1.jpg worked as good or better than Ver 2.0 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4021734-1.jpg but I can't. The silver screen one just doesn't have the low and midrange oomph as the ver 2.0. The top end and roll on from highway cruising acceleration are about the same but the Ver 3.0 has noticeably less power in the first half of the rpm range and feels very similar to stock and pod filter. That stinks cause I really liked the newest one. I think the tube length is the biggest difference in that it doesn't develop the same level of pressure change. I think Verslagen's tip about using screens to decrease pressure/increase velocity in the tube may be a good idea for experimenting with the latest one. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/15/09 at 14:26:32 Try putting your desk organizer on the stock tube, I gotta feeling the flow is too turbulent. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/carbfunction.jpg I put in some super quiet bathroom fans in recently. I put them in and they were just as noisey as before, so I read the directions (if all else fails) the duct had to go straight out of the fan a certain distance before it could turn up. The explanation was it had to build up momentum. Who knew air had momentum? so changed it around and eureka, it was quiet. So I'm thinking the same issue applies here and the stock rubber ducky is exactly the length it needs to be. Therefore your comical assy V1 has a distinct advantage over the HomeDepot rubber connected desk org V3. So I think a comical org V4 will be a winner. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by T Mack 1 on 03/15/09 at 19:00:32 D. Jim, I was thinking of your air intake yesterday. I was doing somethings in the garage and moved something on the shelf to get what was behind it...... Then I looked at what I moved..... A Krupp Gold screen coffee filter basket. Looks a lot like this. http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/21/d2/a620_1.JPG click>> Ebay item 320347797308 (http://cgi.ebay.com/GOLD-SCREEN-COFFEE-FILTER-BY-BRAUN-4-Brand-New-in-Box_W0QQitemZ320347797308QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSmall_Kitchen_Appliances_US?hash=item320347797308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/15/09 at 22:08:40 Kind of like this? http://fantes.com/images/3105coffee_filters.jpg Thanks. Hadn't thought of that but I can see where it would have some good potential. Cool. There's something else I learned this weekend. Saturday we took the son to a Boy Scouts meeting at a U.S. Fish and Wildlife bird sanctuary where we saw a film about falcons. It detailed how the peregrine falcon, the one that does the insane dive from high altitude to catch food, has a unique feature to help it breathe during rapid descent. Wikipedia puts it like this- "... small bony tubercles in a falcon's nostrils guide the shock waves of the air entering the nostrils, enabling the bird to breathe more easily while diving by reducing the change in air pressure." Years ago that very feature was studied extensively by designers and engineers. That research led to the development of a feature on jets that fly at supersonic speeds: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/MiG-21_RB23.JPG/300px-MiG-21_RB23.JPG Of course, this is of absolutely no benefit to my experiments or designs but I just thought it was cool when I learned about this. :) |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/15/09 at 22:29:35 424F474B4948424C4F4B260 wrote:
:o oh, never mind. was starting to wonder how fast you were planing on going. Cause if we go to fast, the coffee won't be ready when we get there. ;D |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/15/09 at 23:36:05 LMAO!!! From coffee filters to suppositories. Who'd ever had thunk it! That info about the quiet fan was interesting. I guess the longer tube allowed the turbulence to smooth itself out before the air curved through an elbow. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/16/09 at 08:16:50 Here's a drawing of Ver 4. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/V4intakesetup.jpg I put it together last night but didn't take any pics and haven't testing it yet. I took the input from you guys, researched and incorporated the 1) very likely optimal tube length, 2) larger opening for more air flow, 3) longer and more angled inlet tapering for developing air compression and thus velocity, 4) a screen with hopefully the correct % of flow, and 5) direct air inflow. The info about the screens used in wind tunnels said there is a sweet spot for the % of screen opening. Too open and the air flows freely without creating much of a pressure change. Not open enough and air passage is impeded so velocity doesn't develop. The sweet spot appears to be about 57-58% open. I think they actually use a series of fine screens where the sum total of open flow is 57-58% as opposed to a single screen with big holes. The fine screens I think minimize turbulence. So, mine might work okay and it might not. Hopefully I can throw a filter over it, mount it and test it this evening. I might try try a series of screens like below although I have to account for the resistance from the filter material. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/screens.jpg |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/16/09 at 09:04:05 cool stuff. The way I understood it, the screen create uniform micro turbulence which settles down quickly to laminar flow. Now I would think an OF type filter would perform this task quite nicely. I would reverse the coffee filter so the OD sits in the transition of the reducer (4" to 2") stuff OF filter on top of that and retain it with the screen. Of course I think it would be better to have an even thickness of filter material. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/16/09 at 09:12:59 What is "OF" filter. That doesn't ring a bell with me. I can try reversing it in the coupling. I'm learning that with airflow, slight changes in setup can produce major results. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Moofed on 03/16/09 at 09:51:20 Pretty sure it's Oldfeller's cheap air filter: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183640744 |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/16/09 at 09:55:18 0D2E2624272E2E2730420 wrote:
OF filter = Nu-foam batting |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/16/09 at 10:18:05 Lo-Buck, High Flo, Lo Maintenance,tiny crapgrabber= OF filter |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/16/09 at 11:18:19 Aha! That stuff does work good. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/17/09 at 07:27:30 Ver 4 worked good but had a minor problem. Twice when cruising at 75mph while very windy out I was hit with two very powerful gusts of wind. It’s been windy and drizzly the past few days. When the two gusts hit the bike, the bike had a slight surge for a moment. Nothing major but just enough to notice. I think the large tapered opening and the pressure change with the gusts of wind had issues working together as the bike was sucking a lot of air at highway speeds. I’ve had bigger gusts with the other versions on the bike with no problem. At first I thought the two little surges were an indication that I needed to move up to a 155 main. But then I realized they both occurred exactly when I felt the gusts hit. Still, upsizing the main is likely in order. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/ver5.jpg I’ve made a Ver 5 which is actually Ver 2 with an even less restrictive cover, more tapered internal tube and filter consisting of cotton gauze treated with K&N oil filter lube. Up to this point, Ver 2 has been the clear winner. Ver 5 edges it out as my favorite performer. Here is a chart of my impression thus far of engine power/performance over the rpm range using the pod filter, stock setup and Ver 5. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/airchart-1.jpg My pod filter performed nicely at higher rpm ranges when max airlfow is needed but doesn't develop as much low end torque. I believe it is because my pod filter lacked the ability to develop very good vacuum at low rpm. My stock airbox was great for low end torque as it allowed a good vacuum to develop at low rpm but it had some restrictions to high flow at high rpm that became evident with mods. Ver 5 feels like it develops better torque at low rpm than my airbox. I feel this is because it has both the ability to develop a vacuum while having less restriction than my airbox. In midrange Ver 5 outperformed both. As for high end, I haven't actually experieced any decrease in the performance of Ver 5 vs pod filter at redline or near redline. Actually, throttle response feels snappier, the bike pulls harder and it's just more fun riding the highway with Ver 5 vs. my pod filter. However, common sense tells me that around redline the engine is creating a very good vacuum and the pod filter will start to outperform Ver 5 due to absence of tube resistance. Maybe, maybe not. I don't spend much time riding at redline but still I reflected this theory in my chart. So, there you go. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/17/09 at 08:10:40 I take it these are grin factor graphs and not quantifyable. ;D because it would be good to have a comparison with the stock filter, K&N, desnorkled, OF filter. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/17/09 at 08:21:37 Man Jim you sure do like to tool around with different things. I like it! |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/17/09 at 09:27:21 Yep, pure grin factor. I'm pretty sure now that going to a 155 main will improve it a little more. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/airchart-1.jpg It made more sense to me when I drew it up. That fact that tuning the airflow on my bike makes a noticeable difference intrigues the heck out of me. My exhaust is probably fairly close performance-wise as some other aftermarket exhausts out there but I don't know how much of a role that plays into it. Hey, if posting how airflow changes effect my bike helps someone else out then great. At least it helped me keep track of the progress. I'll switch to a 155 main and then run a few weeks with this setup. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Staplebox on 03/17/09 at 17:42:37 What exhaust are you running? |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/17/09 at 20:48:41 0F283D2C30393E33245C0 wrote:
A custom made exhaust. Probably the closest thing to it is the Raask drag pipe with mid-mounted baffle. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/dogbowls2.jpg Mine has a mid-mounted baffle that modifies the exhaust sound with minimal back pressure. A small amount of back pressure is provided primarily by a small cone in the front of the baffle. The baffle is 14" long and has 10 large triangles cut and pressed inward. Each triangle covers maybe 40% of the pipe diameter. It looks like this: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/finishedbaffle.jpg Verslagen, I made an amazing discovery tonight. I was at my kids boy scout meeting tonight. It was arts and crafts night. Crap! Well, I was there looking at all the supplies on the table. Me, I never see things as they are but rather what they could be. I can't help it. My mind is always churning. Anyhow, there was a stack of straws on the craft table. Straws are tubes... hmmm. I got to thinking about airflow, flow acceleration, turbulence reduction, etc. I got and idea and utilized my sons "craft" skills to help me out. I grabbed the scissors and handed him the glue. I cut a bunch of 5/8" long straw pieces and he glued them together honeycomb style. I'd take a pic but I left my camera at work today. It looks like this: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/honeycomb.jpg Now, I've been testing airflow of different tube designs and filter material using a hair dryer set on low and some vertical clear tubing with a ping pong ball like the lottery machines with the numbered ping pong balls. The hair dryer is not attached to the clear tube but rather about 8" below it. I've got it set so that the air entering the tube is similar to the air entering the carb via the rubber tube during revving at mid rpms. I also have it set up to do the reverse with a vacuum on top pulling air similar to the carb intake vacuum. I know it's not scientific but the results I get testing seems to be consistent with what I see on the bike. Anyways, I brought the straw honeycomb thing home and tested it. Wow! It seems to about double the airflow velocity compared to nothing at all. Blown away by what I saw, I took a minute to research it on the net and confirmed the hunch I had during arts and crafts time. Let's see if I can explain it. Each piece of straw takes a little bit of the moving air, compresses it, accelerates it and reduces turbulence by getting that little bit of air moving in a very specific direction. The velocity and turbulence reduction is amplified by the sum total of all the little straw pieces. This may be how the multiple screens in a wind tunnel work. Each screen adding a little more velocity to the air coming out of the previous screen. A significant difference was also seen when reversed by using the vacuum cleaner. Since there is essentially no frontal surface area, there is essentially no resistance. I made it with 5/8" long straw pieces cause I knew that would fit in Ver 5 if it worked. Now I've got to figure out a way to incorporate it. Maybe something like this would benefit the stock airbox setup somehow. Maybe putting it directly on the inflow side of the air filter to accelerate the air going through the filter therefore negating some of the resistance. Maybe putting it after the filter say in the opening of the tube to help accelerate the filtered air through the tube and into the carb mouth. I don't know. I'll try it in my Ver 5 intake tomorrow and post results. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/17/09 at 22:10:47 Cool, I can tell you where to go to get such tubes... your local toxophilite. He has many sizes to choose each about 4" long in 7071 or 6061. You want the thin wall stuff. I don't know if they recycle the stuff, but it should be easier to get than a hardly used take off muffler. Ask for aluminum arrow cut off's. You tell 'em you gotta a project and what you'll be using it for and he'll probably give you a bucket full with a smile no less. If he don't let me know, I got 'em too. For yam watta yam, a savage on a savage. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by mick on 03/17/09 at 22:38:18 I'm not saying it's a good idea,but I have pictures of bikes with no air filter at all,in fact my old rudge never had one and nether did my norton,the carb was just out there. I supose the air filter does add to enging longevity,but as my memory serves it didn't, I know BSA and other trials bike did use air filters,but not road bikes.just a thought. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/18/09 at 05:32:26 474349415E424F4643474F532A0 wrote:
Mick, no filter is obviously not good for engine life. But also not good for getting the potential power out of the LS650 engine. There's a thing called volumetric efficiency (VE). It is the ratio of maximum air the cylinder can hold, in this case 40 cubic inches, to the maximum air you can get into the cylinder. Most engines run at about 75% VE. That means, in our case, about 30 ci of air makes it into the cylinder in stock form. The other 25% is lost to restriction and turbulence along the path from filter to intake valve. Of that 25%, about 10% is the resistance of the filter, carb throat and intake valve. Maximizing air filter flow is pretty easy with a K&N or equivalent to get 2-3% VE back. A pod filter helps but the benefit is pretty much focused in the upper third of the rpm range. The intake valve and carb can be improved some to get another 2-3% but the cost to get those gains is out of my range and goal here. Now, that leaves us with 15% VE that can be gained solely by modding the intake design. Reaching a 90% VE translates to about a 5hp gain. That's a lot on this little bike. Since the bike already moves me down the road pretty good, another 5hp becomes pure grin factor power as Verslagen calls it. What I've seen thus far is that the gain is clearly in the form of usable, around town torque. The exhaust helps some but how much I've not got a clue. To know there is a way that I can pick up maybe $10 worth of stuff, spend an evening doing some modding and end up with a significant power increase really cranks my tractor! |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by sakara on 03/18/09 at 07:05:04 Looking forward to the honeycomb. Hurry up and get it right, darnit, so I don't have to test all this shiznit and just do the best mod. :) :) :) As always, Jim, you're the man. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by thumperclone on 03/18/09 at 08:25:26 i remember hangin with gearheads in the 60s, they tried all kinds of mods for better peformance one that stands out is stainless steel screen (window screen?)between the carb and mainfold,idea was to vaporize the mix for better combustion |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/18/09 at 08:59:30 7C6E646E7D6E0F0 wrote:
Thanks. But I'm just a bigger version of the kid who took stuff apart all the time. Of course, it was usually my brother's or parent's stuff cause all the stuff I had was already torn apart! I'm bettin' all of you like watching the shows "How It Works", "How It's Made", "Junkyard Wars", and my newest favorite, "Deconstructed". BTW, I went up to a 155 main. This is the first time I've changed out the main using the allen bolt/leave the carb on the bike method. Wow, that mod is awesome. Thumper, I can see how that would help. I figure with the downward flow, 8 different pathways and fairly long distance to each intake port, better diffusion means better combustion. Interesting. I didn't know that. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/18/09 at 09:08:51 Don't watch much anymore, "How It Works", "How It's Made", don't cover exotic stuff very often. You forgot "master blasters", "weapon masters" Yep "junkyard wars" good stuff haven't hit deconstructed yet. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/18/09 at 17:46:43 In researching the use of honeycomb screen accelerators used in wind tunnels, they said that they should be 6 times longer than their diameter and when this ratio is reached turbulence reduction and increased velocity are max. These are the ones I'm using. Size-wise they are about in the middle between coffee stirrers and the larger straws used at some fast food joints. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/Polypropylene_Pp_Drinking_Straw_Can.jpg |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by T Mack 1 on 03/18/09 at 19:16:49 Hmmmmmmm ..... you could use a bunch of cigarette butts as filters...... |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/19/09 at 04:54:04 0E77173B39316B5A0 wrote:
Hmmm.... I could make on of these: http://www.everythingweird.com/images/httpgizmodocomgadgetssmokingfiresafe-cigarettes-to-keep-idiots-alive-a-bit-longer-264529php_38.jpg Some say the stock carb sucks but it doesn't suck that much! ;D Didn't get anything done with it last night. Lost and Life On Mars was on TV last night. With the new main this is my current setup: 55 pilot with bleed holes screw turned 3/4 turn out 155 main no needle spacer |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by seviersavage on 03/19/09 at 11:31:45 What if you used a straw that had a very slight taper? Mayby only a 64th within 1 " but taken all together represented a real constriction in total diameter. Would that extra compression show up in a more concentated faster air stream? Would it reduce turbulance quicker resulting in a greater enhancement of flow? Or would we get a reduction in air flow, kind of counter productive? Deminishing returns? I noticed that a sharpy pen body has such a taper, very slight but there. I can get a whole bunch for a dollar in the flea market, Humm. Man this thread is cooler than color tv. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/19/09 at 14:42:53 1013060D000611140A0F0F0A020E10630 wrote:
I don't know if that would work better. My first thought is that it would indeed accelerate the outflow more but I think once the air got to any open space, such as tube area or the mouth of the carb, it would creat more turbulence at that open spot that straight straws. But who knows. Maybe could try it with my tester tube setup, add some smoke and observe for turbulence. If I do that I'll take video of it for all to see. If that concept does work, I do think that tubes of a small diameter than sharpies would work better. But then again maybe not. Each time I try something I learn something new either because of the results or because it makes me research something specific about it, or both. I do know one thing for sure. I spent a good bit of time today on a 2008 Honda VTX 1800 and a 2007 Yamaha V-Star 1100. I rode a good bit of very curvy back roads and some highway riding on both. It made me realize just how fast my bike is, grin factor and all. Those were nice bikes, but I was sure glad to get back on my bike. Sure, it ain't a sportsbike and I don't need a sportsbike squid chiming in about power and speed. I've had I think a dozen maybe a few more bikes of all styles and I know exactly what speed and power is. But when I twist the throttle on my bike, I get torque, speed and total grin. The grin factor is 3x what is was on those other two bikes. I've got a much higher appreciation for the thumper now. Around town and with the mods, it's probably the best fun/comfort bike I've had. The owners rode mine as well. I think their goal was to make me envious of their bigger, loaded, high $$$ bikes. I think they wonder how I could like riding my bike compared to all those other head-turner bikes that can be had with some creative financing and a little financial sacrifice. It was pretty obvious their plan backfired. I've seen few men grin in amazement as much as those two did after riding mine. I'm guilty of that mindset in the past. I understand where they are coming from. I'm glad I got past that stage. Enough said. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/19/09 at 21:17:53 This is the honeycomb accelerator we made during arts and crafts time. It's about 3" x 2.5". I haven't had a chance to make one for the intake tube but will try to get to it tomorrow and test this weekend. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/honeycombfilter.jpg BTW, I don't think anyone ever caught the photoshop job done on the suppository container in the initial post of this thread. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/20/09 at 06:26:32 Lancer's? I caught that right away, and I LOL'RD about it. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/20/09 at 22:00:18 Got the new honeycomb accelerator screen done. The straw lengths are 6x the diameter. I'll try it out tomorrow. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/withstraws.jpg From a site about honeycombs and wind tunnels: "The lateral components of mean velocity and of the larger turbulent eddies can be reduced more effectively by a honeycomb... cell length of the honeycomb should be at least six or eight times the cell diameter." |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/20/09 at 23:31:16 I saw it too, all could think of was dam lancer what are you in to? |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by diamond jim on 03/21/09 at 05:03:16 I randomly picked a name and had a little fun with it. [smiley=cheesy.gif] Anyhow, the red straws are almost twice the diameter as the straws used in the first honeycomb prototype but produces the same result. I guess because the ratio of length to diameter was maintained. BTW, the straws were donated by a local Krystals. In the other prototypes, there was some type of support needed at the opening to keep the filter material from getting sucked in but each design introduced some degree of resistance which I didn't like. With this design not only does the filter support present the least resistance but it also helps enhance the flow. For maximum passive air flow I'm figuring this design will be about the best it's gonna get. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by seviersavage on 03/21/09 at 18:49:26 O.K. Inquiring minds want to know, I'm ready to cut some arrows down into little pieces. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/09 at 22:09:57 7D7E6B606D6B7C79676262676F637D0E0 wrote:
Find yourself an archery shop, no need to chop up good ones to make short tubes. Besides, I'm looking for metal honey comb. |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by jboy381 on 08/26/12 at 06:55:00 any updates on this topic??? john |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/12 at 09:33:20 He went on in different threads. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1237731838 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1243199945 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1235090064 |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by jboy381 on 08/28/12 at 14:39:01 thanks... john |
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Title: Re: Kamikaze air intake for the LS650 Post by ralfyguy on 08/28/12 at 15:18:00 This weekend I'm gonna start a new project myself about a cheap air filter fix. It will involve the stock filter frame utilizing pleated air filter material from residential A/C units. They should have a fairly good flow rate and also have mesh backing so that it can't collapse. I'm gonna try to find out if one layer offers enough filtration or several are required. They are fairly cheap and can be cut up to size and a size like a 24x24x1 for example will supply several fixes. |
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