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Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam chain (Read 538 times)
justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #90 - 03/08/07 at 11:08:15
 
What: It's obviously oil burned on.
Why: Cuz, it's got HOT, man,, Come Onn
How, cuz that's how stuff works,, Really, woulda thought you knew this by now..


I guess calling the dealership & talking to someone in service? naaah, they've never seen inside one, we fix them all from here.. I am not calling Japan,, No,,
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #91 - 03/08/07 at 12:32:23
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
What: It's obviously oil burned on.
Why: Cuz, it's got HOT, man,, Come Onn
How, cuz that's how stuff works,, Really, woulda thought you knew this by now..


I guess calling the dealership & talking to someone in service? naaah, they've never seen inside one, we fix them all from here.. I am not calling Japan,, No,,

I guess that it's obvious.
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Reelthing
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #92 - 03/08/07 at 18:22:42
 
Lord I hate to suggest the following thing and certainly don't want to start yet another erl thread, however - if there is any place in this engine that could benefit from better lube is this cam chain and it's componets - Justin if your going to keep this and ride it like you've been - might be real fine test case for syn lube.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #93 - 03/08/07 at 20:56:48
 
Well, not planning on selling it. I guess there's no explaining how I treat that thing. I try to ride it nice & easy, just can't.

I might just try that. Synth oil , hmm.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #94 - 03/08/07 at 21:06:36
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Well, not planning on selling it. I guess there's no explaining how I treat that thing. I try to ride it nice & easy, just can't.

I might just try that. Synth oil , hmm.

Hey...all kidding aside.  If you can't rub any of that color off, then it ain't from any oil sludge that I've ever seen.

I know dirty engines.  Had some that the drain plug in the pan wouldn't work.  Nothing came out.  Had to scoop the crap out it was so thick, but it would at least move.  If you can't move, wipe, or scrape that color off there then it's meant to be there.

No need to change your oil type unless you want to.  The color inside your cases is just a mystery, not an anomaly.
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Aeres
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #95 - 03/08/07 at 21:23:46
 
Today I was just replacing my timing chain in the '95 engine I have, and thought I would put in my $0.02 since there seems to be some weirdness going on with these chains and tensioners.

I recently bought this engine used, it was still running but was making a hellova racket, which turned out to be severe chain noise.  The tensioner had ratcheted out beyond the end of the plunger rack, popped out and was about to let the main spring loose into the case.

After pulling out the chain and measuring the 20 links as per the SSM, I found the chain was still within tolerances.  128.3 mm vs. the 128.9 wear limit in the book.

Why would the tensioner plunger pop out if the chain was in spec?  This was a factory build, so there was no shaved head or any other apparent goofiness.  Why was the chain so loose?

I put in a different known good chain, but the new tensioner was still about two clicks from bailing out like the last one.  This was unacceptable.

So my solution was to modify the main tensioner guide.  This guide has a metal insert for strength, so I carefully bent it to provide a longer curve in the center.  Adding this mild curve allowed it to take up more chain slack than the stock shape for a given displacement of the tensioner.

Once I installed this mod the plunger of the tensioner ratcheted out to only 10mm (measured between the plunger shoulder and tensioner face) before it tightened the chain completely.  This means that about 2/3 of the plunger rack is still within the tensioner body.  Much better...




If I succeeded in loading the pics right (I am a newbie to this forum stuff, as you might be able to tell) you can see the slight bend in the top one vs the bottom one.

So, I'll fire it up tomorrow and find out whether I fixed it or whether I have a new boat anchor.  

I'll let you know what happens...

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Reelthing
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #96 - 03/08/07 at 21:53:28
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
No need to change your oil type unless you want to.  The color inside your cases is just a mystery, not an anomaly.


Oh I wasn't think about the color - just that a little better lube might make the chain live a little longer - unless it's the guides giving way
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #97 - 03/08/07 at 21:55:31
 
Thanks for that input & best of luck.

So, you tweaked the left side chain guide in?
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Reelthing
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #98 - 03/08/07 at 21:58:10
 
Aeres wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
If I succeeded in loading the pics right (I am a newbie to this forum stuff, as you might be able to tell) you can see the slight bend in the top one vs the bottom one.

So, I'll fire it up tomorrow and find out whether I fixed it or whether I have a new boat anchor.  

I'll let you know what happens...


well welcome aboard and jump on in with us - your going to need to post the picture someplace as this forum dosen't up load it just displays - email them to me and if you want and we'll post them
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Aeres
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #99 - 03/08/07 at 22:16:22
 
Thanks for the welcome!

Looks like I got the pics in there.  So now you can see the mod (aka tweak) I was talking about.  I think this may also reduce the wear on the guide since its no longer concentrated at the sharp corner at the bottom.

But I'll be happy if the engine runs ok and just doesn't implode on me.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #100 - 03/08/07 at 22:32:39
 
I wish I had done that while I had the case off. Then I wouldn't have to go back in so soon. I also didn't measure the chain. I didn't even look to see if I could measure it installed. Wadda Dilbert...
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #101 - 03/08/07 at 22:43:06
 
Now I can see why if the chain is with in wear limits that replacing the guide is required!

Thanks Aeres!   Grin
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #102 - 03/09/07 at 04:48:53
 
Aeres wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Today I was just replacing my timing chain in the '95 engine I have, and thought I would put in my $0.02 since there seems to be some weirdness going on with these chains and tensioners.

I recently bought this engine used, it was still running but was making a hellova racket, which turned out to be severe chain noise.  The tensioner had ratcheted out beyond the end of the plunger rack, popped out and was about to let the main spring loose into the case.

After pulling out the chain and measuring the 20 links as per the SSM, I found the chain was still within tolerances.  128.3 mm vs. the 128.9 wear limit in the book.

Why would the tensioner plunger pop out if the chain was in spec?  This was a factory build, so there was no shaved head or any other apparent goofiness.  Why was the chain so loose?

I put in a different known good chain, but the new tensioner was still about two clicks from bailing out like the last one.  This was unacceptable.

So my solution was to modify the main tensioner guide.  This guide has a metal insert for strength, so I carefully bent it to provide a longer curve in the center.  Adding this mild curve allowed it to take up more chain slack than the stock shape for a given displacement of the tensioner.

Once I installed this mod the plunger of the tensioner ratcheted out to only 10mm (measured between the plunger shoulder and tensioner face) before it tightened the chain completely.  This means that about 2/3 of the plunger rack is still within the tensioner body.  Much better...

If I succeeded in loading the pics right (I am a newbie to this forum stuff, as you might be able to tell) you can see the slight bend in the top one vs the bottom one.

So, I'll fire it up tomorrow and find out whether I fixed it or whether I have a new boat anchor.  

I'll let you know what happens...



Since this was the factory build, how many miles are on that puppy?
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KenGLong
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #103 - 03/09/07 at 07:53:00
 
Aeres wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
So my solution was to modify the main tensioner guide.  This guide has a metal insert for strength, so I carefully bent it to provide a longer curve in the center.  Adding this mild curve allowed it to take up more chain slack than the stock shape for a given displacement of the tensioner.

Cool! I will also do that to mine.

The thought about the synth oil is a good one too. I think I'll switch to synth from here on out and see what happens. I haven't made any long term decision on keeping my '02 but I can at least start the long term test.

Ken
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Aeres
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Re: Okay, popped the case & looked at the cam
Reply #104 - 03/09/07 at 10:46:25
 
This '96 engine (I said it was a '95 before, but just looked at my records and apparently its a '96) has about 15k miles on it, according to the company that sold it.  The rest of the engine looks pristine inside, so it doesn't look like its been abused at all.

Also to note; I am doing this experiment on the old chain guide instead of a new one.  The more I read about this in the forums, the more I'm becoming convinced that this may be a design flaw for these engines.  Perhaps the guides are being manufactured correctly but not being shaped afterwards.  

I was looking closer at the pics in the SSM and I don't know how you would get the tensioner to look the way it is in the book without bending the guide.  Even a new chain would put the tensioner out near its limits, as other pics in this thread show.  When I made my mod, the tensioner is compressed almost identically to whats shown in the SSM.

Ok, got to get back to the engine and we'll see if this works!

Thanks everyone for the responses!
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