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Finn Hammer's Savage (Read 2069 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #180 - 04/07/24 at 22:45:58
 
Finn, very confusing problem.

Let's start by getting the nomenclature that we use in agreement.  This is an exploded view of the clutch assembly.  Use the nomenclature provided in this illustration.  Although the illustration is for an LS clutch, the DR clutch should use the same nomenclature.
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Clutch_Exploded_View.jpg

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #181 - 04/07/24 at 23:02:39
 
You have an early model LS with the 4-speed transmission.  Do I have that correct?

If I understand correctly, you have installed a DR650 Sleeve Hub (4) in the LS clutch assembly.  Did you also install a DR650 Pressure Disk (13), or did you bore out the LS Pressure Disk to suit the new DR Sleeve Hub?

When the DR Sleeve Hub (4) is used with the LS Primary Driven Gear (1), the Sleeve Hub should be like this when everything is assembled correctly.  Note the position of the Sleeve Hub (circled in yellow).  It does not stick out as much as yours.  I assume that's because of the additional washer you installed.

The gap between the inner most Drive Plate (8) and the edge of the slot in the Primary Driven Gear (1) should be as shown in my picture (red lines).



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Hub_Positiion_Btm_Plate_Position.jpg

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #182 - 04/07/24 at 23:42:52
 
You should not need an extra Washer (7).  There are two thrust washers in the assembly (2 & 7).  They are both 2mm thick.  

Washer (2) is 44 mm O.D.  It goes in between the Spacer (3) and the transmission bearing.

Washer (7) is 40 mm O.D. and it goes between the Sleeve Hub (4) and Spacer (3).  It is nested inside the Primary Driven Gear (1).

I suggest you assemble your clutch on the input shaft and leave out the clutch plates.  So, install the Washer (2), Spacer (3), Primary Driven Gear (1) with Oil Pump Drive Gear (17) and Roller (18), Washer (7), Sleeve Hub (4) with Pressure Disk (13).  Install Nut (5) and lightly tighten.

You will essentially have the clutch assembled on the input shaft but there won't be any clutch plates.

Verify that the input shaft will rotate independently of the Primary Driven Gear (1).

Verify that the Primary Driven Gear (1) is free to rotate within the backlash limits of the Primary Drive.  The Primary Driven Gear should be free to rotate slightly and wiggle a bit.  It should have about .010" axial movement on Spacer (3).

Verify that the Pressure Disk (13) is free to move in & out and that it engages with the splines on the Sleeve Hub (4).

Verify that the Oil Pump Drive Gear (17) is free to rotate slightly on the Primary Driven Gear (1).  It should not be pinched between Washer (2) and the Primary Driven Gear (1).  It should move in & out slightly, and be free to rotate within the limits of the drive pin (Roller 18) and slot in the gear.

Take a bunch of pictures and let us know what you find.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #183 - 04/07/24 at 23:51:54
 
Stack up the clutch plates (8, 9 & 12) and measure the thickness of the stack.  You should have 6 steel driven plates (12), 6 fiber drive plates (8), and 1 special drive plate (9).  This stack of plates should be very close to 1.209" (30.72 mm).

Lightly clamp the stack together as shown in my picture.

If you have a significant deviation over 1.209" (say .010"), measure each plate individually and let us know what you find.

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Clutch_Pack_1_209_inch_30_72mm.jpg

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #184 - 04/08/24 at 00:03:19
 
If you have difficulty rotating the Primary Driven Gear, make sure that your Oil Pump Drive Gear (17) is oriented correctly.  I know you have made a set of high-speed oil pump gears.  Make sure that the drive gear isn't too thick and that it isn't turned around.  Make sure that some feature on your gear (like the small screws used to fasten the gear tire onto the new hub) isn't interfering with the Primary Driven Gear (1).  As previously mentioned, the oil pump drive gear should be free to rotate slightly on the Primary Driven Gear (1).  It should rotate within the limits of the drive pin and move in & out slightly.

None of these screws should hit anything.
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HS_Drive_Gear_Install.jpg

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #185 - 04/08/24 at 00:06:32
 
The steel face on the spigot of the Primary Driven Gear (1) should protrude from the aluminum hub on the Oil Pump Drive Gear.  The surface that the yellow arrow is pointing to must stick out of the Oil Pump Drive Gear.
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HS_Drive_Gear_Protrusion.jpg

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #186 - 04/09/24 at 04:23:40
 
DragBikeMike sure is thorough!

My clutch assembled properly with the DR650 parts inserted - no additional washer was needed.  Something you did isn't proper.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #187 - 04/09/24 at 14:29:05
 
Finn, after pondering your problem and reviewing your posts, I was baffled.  I don't think I fully understand your explanation/description of the problem.  I think you are saying that you have insufficient pressure disk travel.

My original hybrid clutch was set up in a late model primary driven gear (1).  I never tried it in an early model clutch.

I decided to try and simulate your setup.  I have an early model primary driven gear (1).  It has the 68-tooth gear (late model has 67 teeth).  I also have a DR650 sleeve hub (4), but I do not have a DR650 pressure disk (13).  So, I took a stock pressure disk and bored it out to 1.738".

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Boring_Pressure_Disk3.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #188 - 04/09/24 at 14:37:07
 
Although the early model primary driven gear (1) looks pretty much the same as the late model, I did note a few differences.

The early model has these unique semi-circle stops cast into the bottom of each slot.  Looks to me like these are intended to act as stops for the tangs on the innermost drive plate (8).  I believe they are incorporated to prevent the tang from binding in the radii at the bottom of the slot.
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4Spd_Tang_Stops.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #189 - 04/09/24 at 14:40:57
 
The early model primary driven gear (1) also appears to have taller hard stops for the pressure disk.  The early model stops are about .055" above the thrust washer, while the late model stops are only about .035".
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4Spd__055.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #190 - 04/09/24 at 14:53:18
 
I assembled a clutch using the early model primary driven gear (1), the modified (bored out) LS pressure disk (13), and the DR650 sleeve hub (4).  I installed six drive plates (8), one drive plate (9), and six driven plates (12).  I used the stock thrust washers (2 & 7).  

I left out the wave washer assembly (10 & 11) because it is very hard to compress and will interfere with travel checks on the pressure disk.  To get accurate travel readings you must start with all the plates in intimate contact.

To permit checking travel, I assembled the clutch with two light checking springs.  These light springs will bring all the components together while still allowing me to cycle the pressure disk with my fingers.  The light checking spring is on the left, stock spring is on the right.
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Spring_for_Checking1.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #191 - 04/09/24 at 14:55:37
 
To measure pressure disk travel, I have a special sleeve that I attach to one of the spring posts on the pressure disk.
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Indicator_Post.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #192 - 04/09/24 at 14:56:18
 
This is the special sleeve installed on the pressure disk.
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Indicator_Mount_PD_Travel.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #193 - 04/09/24 at 14:58:58
 
With the early model primary driven gear and DR sleeve hub, the pressure disk travel was only .042".  That is way too small.
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Press_Disk_Trvl_4_Spd_Bskt__042.JPG

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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #194 - 04/09/24 at 15:05:29
 
Since the clutch release mechanism travel is .065" to .070", the pressure disk will hit the hard stops before the clutch hand lever has moved through its full range of motion.  Something will eventually break.

Adding another washer (7) might fix the travel problem, but it moves the rotating release plate (14) too close to the release arm (24) in the clutch cover.  IMO, this is a bad idea.
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