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Finn Hammer's Savage (Read 2070 times)
FinnHammer
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #210 - 04/10/24 at 13:14:08
 
Here is the preparation for the clay test:
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #211 - 04/10/24 at 13:14:16
 
Immediately the part to the right looks dodgy:
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #212 - 04/10/24 at 13:14:32
 
But let's cut the clay and get a clear view of the cross sections involved:
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #213 - 04/10/24 at 13:14:59
 
And yes: there is interference right here:
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #214 - 04/10/24 at 13:15:10
 
This could be remedied by shaving a bit off this corner, since the sleeve hub is fixed in axial position :
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #215 - 04/10/24 at 13:15:24
 
So far so good, the 2mm washer can work, although I am not rejecting the suggestions you make, Mike. But there are other worries:
First, in this state, the maximum travel allowed is 2.1mm but i really need 2.5mm to cater for the full travel of the clutch handle. (18mm travel on the cable, 7:1 reduction ratio on the release arm/cam).
Biggest worry is the very limited amount of mesh between pressure disk and sleeve hub, only 1.5mm in my case.
This has me seriously worried for 2 reasons, one is the risk of disengaging them during clutch release, but also that the area of contact between the parts is very limited. In the original clutch, the  pressure disk and the sleeve hub engaged in 4.5mm meaning even when the clutch handle was pulled all the way into the handle, there was still 2mm of engagement.
Here is a picture of the wear pattern on the pressure disk, showing how deep the sleeve hub engaged with it in the original configuration-
I have some ideas where to shave off a bit of material to remedy these worry points, but it is getting late, and I have to go to bed now, to be continued
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #216 - 04/11/24 at 03:42:11
 
I like the way you used those button head screws on the release plate.  That provides a lot more clearance.

I'm a little concerned about the gap that I see between the flange on the sleeve hub and your outermost drive plate.  That drive plate should be contacting the aluminum flange, but the photo shows what appears to be a large gap.  Am I seeing things?  I see a gap in several of your photos.


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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #217 - 04/11/24 at 03:44:59
 
Your release plate also looks much lower than mine, but that could just be due to the angle of the photo.  Mine is situated .210" below the surface of the sleeve hub.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #218 - 04/11/24 at 04:09:15
 
The clutch plate stack height controls the elevation of the release plate.  What is your stack height?

The extra washer you intend to install should have no effect on the spline engagement between the pressure disk and the sleeve hub.  Likewise, reducing the height of the hard stops will also have no effect on spline engagement.  The spline engagement is controlled by the clutch plate stack height.

I'm not sure how you arrived at 2.5 mm travel.  I never got more than .070" empirically.  I measured it with a dial indicator and also feeler gages.  As I recall, those readings agreed with my calculated travel.  That data along with the methods I used are in my original post.  I assume you measured your pressure disk travel with a dial indicator.  That should have been accomplished with the clutch plates installed without the wave washer assembly.  So, you ended up with 2.1 mm (.084"), do I have that correct?

By any chance did you measure travel without the special washer installed?  If so, how much travel did you have without the washer?

It would help us all understand your problem if you were to tell us what your clutch plate stack height is.  It would also be helpful if you could check your outermost drive plate with a feeler gage and verify that it is in intimate contact with the aluminum flange on the sleeve hub.

I might add that on my first iteration of this hotrod clutch, I had a set of plates that were significantly thinner than what I am currently running.  Over time, as I developed more & more power, I switched plates to eliminate slippage.  The set of plates I am currently running should be very close to the same stack height I recorded for this post.  Although my spline engagement is minimal, it has performed flawlessly over many miles.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #219 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:09
 
I agree about the stack height, and will adress it later in the post.

Sometimes it is a good idea to sleep on things, in this case certainly so.
My main concern about engagement debth was due to my erroneous assumption that this small amount of engagement was taking active part in transferring the power from the engine to the wheels. Now I find it hard to understand how I could have come to that conclusion, but at least now, I understand that this is not the case, the pressure disk is solely used to compress the plates, so that the friction discs indexed to the primary driven gear can transfer power to the plain disks indexed in the sleeve hub.
So far so good.
I arrived at the 2.5 mm travel this way: The clutch cable maximum travel is 18mm and the relationship between release arm and release cam is 7:1, so 18/7 = 2.57.
I realise this is the extreme absolute maximum travel of the pressure disk. I do not under any circomstances want that disk to disengage from the sleeve hub, so that is why I go to lengths to assure that.
My stack height is 31.2mm
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #220 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:17
 
and the free length of the sleeve hub is 33.4mm
this should give me 33.4mm - 31.2mm = 2.2mm engagement.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #221 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:24
 
But there is a catch: the splines in the pressure disk start 0.6mm under the friction surface of the disk, resulting in an index debth of 2.2mm - 0.6mm = 1.6mm which I think is too small, because I fear that the pressure disk can slip out of engagement during a deep pull on the clutch lever.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #222 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:32
 
As a remedy, I first skim the friction surface of the pressure disk down to flush with the splines, this brings engagement back up to 2.2mm
It also eases the compression of the clutch springs by 0.6mm and it brings the release plate forward by the same amount, but I don't think this will cause amy interference.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #223 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:41
 
And finally I skim the sleeve hub 0.3mm to give me the 2.5mm that makes my nights sleep so much better. Smiley
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #224 - 04/11/24 at 08:39:51
 
I don't think I have a problem anymore, the clutch seems solid and has the clearance needed, only one more thing:
The hole in the end of the gear box axle, where the clutch push piece enters, has an unacceptable surface finish. I think someone forgot to load the reamer in the tool changer bay, in the machine shop that day they turned this shaft, because it is really ugly and not at all suitable for an o-ring to mate with, and allow axial movement. The original o-ring was all chewed up, and I can hardly make a fresh ring engage with that hole.
It is 12.4mm in diametre, the bottom of the o-ring groove in the clutch push piece is 9.5mm. Since the o-ring is a 1.9mm cross section, the interference amounts to 9.5mm + 1.9mm +1.9mm = 13.3 - 12.4 = 0.9mm which is also too much.

I have ordered an adjustable reamer so that I can get the surface finish on par with what is to be expected.

Have you experienced a hole like this, Mike?
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« Last Edit: 04/11/24 at 11:07:27 by FinnHammer »  

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