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Finn Hammer's Savage (Read 2062 times)
FinnHammer
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #150 - 04/01/24 at 11:37:37
 
The dreaded leak from above the front right cylinder stud will not haunt me, I am sure. The top groove is for inserting a screwdriver, to pry the plug out during dismantlement of the cylinder head.
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FinnHammer
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #151 - 04/01/24 at 11:37:46
 
So far so good, the days where the bike starts to come together are rapidly approaching. I bought a set of cam + rockers for the DR650 early on in this project, only to realise that the exhaust rocker of the DR does not have the de-compression prong on it, so I am waiting for new proper rockers, and now I am happy to say, they will come with the better wear-pads on them.
And then of course I will have to wait for the Locktite 592 also.

But after that, together it is coming, and since I have all the right tools, what can go wrong? (humor)
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #152 - 04/02/24 at 10:57:55
 
Finn, those 160 grit stones are pretty course.  Hard for me to tell what your finished size is on your cylinder.  As I recall, Wiseco specifies .0025" clearance, but I personally prefer .0030" to .0035".  If you haven't reached .0035" clearance, you might want to kiss that bore with some 220 stones to provide a smoother finish.  If your "spider hone" is a spring hone, you must be very careful not to introduce out-of-round and taper.  If I am interpreting your readings correctly, you are currently at .0016" out-of-round and .0018" taper.  IMO, that's acceptable, but I suspect you are taking the readings without torque plates.  If you just kiss the bore with 220 grit stones should be OK.  Just enough to smooth it out a bit.  Looks like you have a good cross hatch.  What is your current bore size?

Be very generous with your ring gap.  I suggest "Blown Race Only" spec.  If you are running a 94mm piston that should work out to .024" top ring and .026" 2nd ring.

I see you have your high-speed oil pump gear installed.  Will you be installing an oil pressure gage to monitor pressure?  What are you planning to do with the excess oil?  I know it works fine with oil pressure about 10 to 12 psi at 4000 rpm.  If you don't bleed off excess oil, you will exceed that.  I have no idea what it will do if the oil pressure is higher than 10 to 12 psi at 4000 rpm with the oil up to normal temp.  Are you familiar with the bleed jet in the oil filter housing?

Very nice job on the head plug.  I like the idea of the groove to aid removal.

Where do you stand with the port work?  

How long have you had these tools and where did you get them?  They must be very, very old.  Cool that you are still using them.  I have a few tools from my late father's collection, but nothing as old as these.  
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #153 - 04/03/24 at 08:31:58
 
Those look to be true legacy tools , bare minimum 3rd owner. I am swimming in used tools , I dislike new tools. They are truly special when they are handed down. I have my brothers , fathers , grandfathers tools , the first ones I reach for !
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #154 - 04/03/24 at 11:47:09
 
Crap, Loctite 592 is not available within European Union, or so it would seem. Amazon automatically refuses to ship it to Denmark, and Danish resellers of Loctite tells me they are not allowed to access it.
I managed to get it from EBay, England, but with an up to 2 weeks delivery time.
This means that I will have time to do the extended plunger project too.

Mike, thanks again for the heads up on oil pressure with the speed up pump drive.

Made me reread the full 8 pages of:

https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1695617698/0

I really only want to try to save the top end oil pressure from running low during idle, and did totally miss the possibility of overpressurizing the system.
I have the gauges, 100psi and 15 psi. I guess the latter will have to be sealed off during warm up in order to survive. We will see about that.

So, should I install the relief, or drain jet, which dumps oil right back to the primary transmission plenum from the filter cover?
Perhaps it would be possible to mount a spring regulated pressure relief valve up in the valve cover, and dump the excess oil into the exhaust spring pocket, so that the main bearings could benefit from it?  I cannot help thinking that a pressure relief valve up there would be the right thing to have.
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/miniature-relief-valves/

I will use the generous ring gaps you suggested, and see how the piston mates with the cylinder.  It is the 94mm high compression 13136M09400 from Lancer.

The porting work is on hold for the moment. I still need to measure port volume on the stock head, and on the ported one, as well as compare the 2 heads against eash other flow wise, and will probably do now while I wait for the Loctite 592.
But before I move on with porting I feel I had better get some experience with valve seat shapes. It is one of David Vizzards center points, and not just him. Most porters seem to agree that the shape of the valve seat, or pre-seat, is the most important aspect of porting. One place in David Vizzards book about porting and flowing he writes, that when people gain power by putting in bigger valves it is mainly due to the fact that they can get a better shape just up stream of the seat.
The picture I show is from a french amateur porter, from his Hayabusa, posted to a facebook porting group, and he got a lot of praise for his work. He puts all 5 angles into the throat/seat transition. Not that I understand why it should be beneficial to have those sharp steps there, Intuitively I would assume a smooth transition would be better, like everywhere else. In fact I secretly harbour the opinion that the only reason to make the transition with steps is that it can be done with standard cutters, by anyone, whereas doing it in one smooth curve requires a dedicated seat cutting machine, with curved cutting inserts, or as of now, a CNC controlled cutter with one point tools. Man - it is a can of worms.
However, what I wish to do is create a simple fixture where I can mount replicate valve guides made on the lathe, and test the shapes without spoiling a head.

Now, about the antique tools. Frankly I don't use them. I have good modern stuff. I bought the monkey wrench off EBay a couple of years ago, and the micrometer I found in the bottom of an old wooden box in the corner of a cubboard out at the museum in the moor where I spend tuesday mornings. Frankly, it is a joke. Perhaps I should stop joking about old tools.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #155 - 04/03/24 at 20:34:33
 
Finn, I am not familiar with Wiseco piston 13136M09400.  When I Google it, I see it's for a CanAm.  What sort of piston is it.  Please post some pics.  Might be that I have a prototype of the 94mm flat-top so the part number is different.  Maybe Lancer can shed some light.

I wouldn't struggle with any sort of pressure relief valve, especially if you are not fully instrumented (tach, pressure gages, thermometers, etc.).  The #120 (1.2mm) bleed jet in the seal retainer should work fine.  See reply #95 in my oil system post.

I don't think you will be able to juggle with isolating the pressure gage during warm up.  Just get a 0-30 psi gage.

You are correct about the valve seats.  The throats and seat angles are very important, and so are the back-cuts on the valves.  Since you will be running 33mm valves, you don't want your throats to exceed .170" (90%).  When you open up the throats too far, you no longer have sufficient material left to incorporate a multi-angle valve job.  The photo you posted on the Hyabusa seat is a good example of a 5-angle seat.  I think you can visualize that if the throat was too large there would no longer be any material left to do the transition angles below the 45-degree seat.  The goal is to help the air turn the corner gradually rather than force the air to turn abruptly.  

You are also correct about the five angles being an easy way to make the gradual turn using standard seat cutters.  Radiused seats are obviously better, but I bet they are very difficult to do in a home shop.

This video by Eric Weingartner should provide some insight on how to deal with the valve seat throat.  He does a pretty good job of explaining why you don't want to get carried away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFflEhZVYog


I have recently moved away from hand grinding the throats.  It is very difficult to maintain dimensions and keep the throat concentric with the valve guide and 45-degree seat.  So, I made a pilot and a cutting tool that can be adjusted to the exact dimension you are trying to achieve.  It is not too difficult to fabricate the tool, you certainly have the lathe skills.


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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #156 - 04/04/24 at 02:47:33
 
Mike,

As you see, I've got the tach, and I will follow your advice about the 1.2mm bleed hole for now. Have to get the bike on the road, and perhaps I will purchase a second engine, to modify with the dream lubrication system later. That top should be swimming in oil, as should the transmission, the main and balancing shaft bearings. Perhaps a squirt up under the piston too.
Piston identity should be clear on the picture, I hope.

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #157 - 04/04/24 at 05:35:59
 
DBM, the piston # 13136… is the current production in use, which is the 2nd generation of the flat top dished design we put together.
Piston # 12212… is the 1st generation (I have 2 in stock) and you may very well have a 1st generation unit if I didn’t send you a 2nd piston later.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #158 - 04/04/24 at 11:24:54
 
I have been practicing how to assemble the cylinder top and valve train today.
I got lucky when I searched through my measuring tools, I found a 14-17mm internal micrometer, which will come in handy, machining the plunger housing for the cam tensioner.
The original plunger housing was worn badly in the front part of the bore, due to the extended plunger wiggeling.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #159 - 04/04/24 at 11:25:09
 
Good tooling is beneficial in the process of making accurate parts. A smooth sliding fit starts with a hole close to nominal dimension. In this case 15mm +0,01mm

Here i have turned the outside and the inside of the plunger body.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #160 - 04/04/24 at 11:25:26
 
I really wish I had a milling machine, but with a 4 jaw chuck, most of the operations can be done, with a little patience.
Here I am turning the face that goes towards the crank housing.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #161 - 04/04/24 at 11:26:04
 
If you swing it right, most everything is possible. Here the other side of the housing is turned down. From here it is just hacksaw file and drilling machine.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #162 - 04/04/24 at 11:26:46
 
Just like Dave, I am using an old bolt as donor for the plunger.
Almost all of my turning is done with that small boring bar.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #163 - 04/04/24 at 11:28:10
 
After it has been shaped inside and out, it is time to drill the hole.
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Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #164 - 04/04/24 at 11:28:28
 
The extra long plunger housing interfered with the clutch cover, here I am checking the clearance with modelling clay
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