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Engine replacement (Read 336 times)
Ludolalo
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #15 - 12/01/21 at 03:48:35
 
The bike is at my father's so I'll be able to start working on it and take more picture in the weekend.

This was my first bike ever. I am thinking about buying an other boulevard s40  and use this one for the pieces but I have to admit that now something makes me anxious about buying an other one. This engine usually makes a good run? Should I buy an other model? Looks hard to find a use engine here at a reasonable price.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #16 - 12/01/21 at 05:35:26
 
It’s a tough call. If you can’t find an engine locally shipping can make a used engine economically unviable. You may be able to find a wrecked or damaged bike and harvest the engine from it. Another option is an insurance auction. If none of those pan out over the next few months, than a new bike may be the best option.

Did you buy this bike from a dealer or private party? If it’s from a dealer  they may be legally obligated to refund your money.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #17 - 12/01/21 at 15:59:29
 
Don't allow this rare problem sour you on these bikes. We have guys with over 100,000 miles on theirs. Someone already said that if someone over torqued a particular part inside there, it would crack.. Sounds to me like someone was in there and screwed up. Maybe even Heard it crack and decided to sell it.
If you bought it from an individual, I'd consider going to visit,, don't act like it died. Just go talk, ostensibly for more maintenance history, ask about simple things, like sometimes the first start of the day, it needs choked,, once he's comfortable, talk about maybe one day, you might have to go into the engine, ask if he has the shop manual..

Feel for the right time to ask him

Did you kinda want to puke when you heard the sprocket crack?

Or

I heard it takes some real care in some places in there.

I'd probably wanna puke if I heard that sprocket crack..


IDK what you have in it, but if you get lucky, you can get a motor for four hundred bucks.

The ignition changes some years, getting that right is important and some of these guys know and of that by heart.

I'd hate to see you buy a crap motor..

Ya know, if you got another Savage, you could ride, enjoy having a bike and as you learn about these things, keep your eyes open and see about getting a motor and fix your dead one. Then, with two, you could start playing around with one. Most people decide they want to change things a little. Get one like you want it, maybe sell the other?
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Ludolalo
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #18 - 12/04/21 at 08:19:50
 
Ok, So I found a complete engine !! Yeahhhhh ! I'll be replacing it myself.

All the beads in the bearing are in place. And the wire-looking stuff is actually sealant.

I'll take pictures when I will remove the engine. Now I am at the point where I need to mount the bike and start to remove the gas tank.

Talked to the guy that sold it to me, he was shocked and he will pay for a part of the engine I bought. The Carburator and oil have been changed in august, not by himself but by a local mechanic. He used it a bit after this maintenance.


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Ludolalo
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #19 - 12/04/21 at 08:20:10
 
the beads
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Ludolalo
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #20 - 12/04/21 at 08:20:26
 
The new engine !
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #21 - 12/04/21 at 08:24:14
 
Just curious - if you don't mind, what did you pay for the motor?  How many miles are on it?
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Ludolalo
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #22 - 12/04/21 at 08:41:04
 
700 canadian dollars so maybe around 500USD. With 10 000 miles, it was on a 2000 s40.
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #23 - 12/04/21 at 08:51:11
 
Your "broken" engine parts are likely to bring you nearly as much as you paid for the engine.  A good low mileage head, camshaft and rockers is worth some money, the cylinder and piston could be in good shape, side cases, clutch, etc.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #24 - 12/04/21 at 22:52:23
 
Ludolalo, thanks very much for the additional pics.  Glad you were able to locate a replacement engine at a very reasonable price.  It was also cool that the seller is footing part of the bill, sounds like a standup guy.

These failures don't seem to be as uncommon as we might think.  Ever since BlakeEM reported his balance shaft failure, I keep an eye out for damaged parts when I browse ebay.  I've managed to find a few with telltale signs of a collision between the balance shaft and the rod and/or crank.

As I mentioned previously, I think these failures are related to the drive pin for the timing gear working its way out of the gear.  Once that pin falls out all hell breaks loose.  Seems to me that the pin isn't subjected to much load until the assembly is no longer pinched together.  Once the clamping force is relaxed, the gear is free to continuously rock back & forth as the crank accelerates and decelerates (a typical phenomenon associated with a reciprocating engine).

In this photo (BlakeEM's), you can actually see the drive pin peeking out of the crank cheek.
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BlakeEM_Balancer_Failure_16.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #25 - 12/04/21 at 22:55:13
 
Here you see the pin installed in the drive gear.  It's a super-tight press fit and shouldn't come out.  Something has to continuously work at it to make the pin come loose.
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Drive_Gear_Pin_2_001.JPG

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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #26 - 12/04/21 at 23:05:14
 
Under normal circumstances, that gear is pinched tightly between the crank cheek and the inner race of the right-hand main bearing.  That pinching force is applied via the primary drive gear nut, which has left hand threads.

This photo that Dave provided shows how the cam drive sprocket is installed on the crank shaft.  The smooth round journal to the left of the sprocket is where the main bearing inner race runs, and just to the left of that is a slightly larger diameter where the balancer drive gear runs.

To the right of the cam drive sprocket, you see the splines where the primary drive gear is installed, and to the right of the splines you see the threads for the left-hand nut.

When everything is in place, the assembly gets pinched together when the primary drive gear nut is tightened.  Note that in the picture the flange on the cam drive sprocket is up-hard against the shoulder on the crank.  If you tightened the nut the flange would only bear on the face of the crank shoulder.  But when all the parts are in place, the inner race of the main bearing sticks out significantly farther than the crank shaft shoulder, so the cam drive sprocket flange bears hard on the inner race, not the crank shaft shoulder.
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cranksprocket1.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #27 - 12/04/21 at 23:23:10
 
If the primary drive gear nut is over tightened, the cam drive sprocket can fracture and collapse.  When that happens, there is no longer sufficient pinch to keep the balancer drive gear from moving.  Now the drive pin takes all the load.  The picture of the fractured cam drive sprocket that I previously posted tells the story.

Because the primary drive gear nut is left-hand threads, I suspect it gets overtightened a lot.  Inexperienced mechanics may not recognize that it's a left-hand nut and try to rotate it counter-clockwise to remove it.  It doesn't take much to fracture the cam drive sprocket.  Other wrench turners may know the nut is left-hand, but they use an impact wrench to tighten the nut (probably because they don't have a good way to keep the engine from rotating).  Either scenario can result in a fractured drive sprocket.  If it's only partially fractured and goes unnoticed, it will fail in operation.  Once it fails completely, all the pinch is lost, and the drive pin is now subjected to cyclic stress and inevitable failure.

If anyone doesn't think that these nuts get overtightened on a regular basis, take a look at BlakeEM's nut.  See how the corners of the hex are deformed and folded over in the counter-clockwise direction.
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BlakeEM_Primary_Nut.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #28 - 12/04/21 at 23:24:42
 
And Blake's wasn't too bad, howzabout this treasure I found on ebay.  This wrench turner just couldn't see the forest for the trees.  The nut wouldn't budge so he got a BIGGER wrench (or a rattle-wrench).
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Primary_Drive_Nut_Overtorque_23.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Engine replacement
Reply #29 - 12/04/21 at 23:29:26
 
Here you can see what happens to the drive key on the balance shaft.  Oooooo Baby, that hurt so good.  Another Ebay find.
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eBay_Balancer_with_sheared_key.jpg

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