Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21
Send Topic Print
AMD & others --- Intel dominance in 2022 (Read 9739 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #255 - 12/22/21 at 03:37:10
 
 
https://liliputing.com/2021/12/lilbits-ces-2022-will-likely-be-subdued-as-com...
 
The new strain of Omicron Covid has likely killed off a physical CES show again for this year as major presenters are now dropping the show right and left again to protect their key people's health.

They still may have the show for the now fashionable liberal anti-vax crowd to show up and get all infected with Omicron Covid variants,


===================================================


https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-leads-growth-in-ic-industry-2021

AMD Leads Growth in IC Industry for 2021, Intel Shrinks Alone

The whole year of business roll ups are beginning to come in, and Intel's last minute blip or single well timed (and well price supported) ray of Alder Lake performance sunshine does not make up for a generally gloomy total 2021 year picture for Intel.

According to IC Insights, the top 17 semiconductor companies are bound for a combined $460 billion figure in Integrated Circuits (IC) sales for 2021. All 17 companies have now surpassed the $10 billion mark, but like in most markets, the top companies typically hold the vast majority of sales. Intel, Samsung and TSMC are projected to account for around $210 billion of the industry's total sales revenue, and Intel seems to have no chance but to hand the semiconductor crown to Samsung.

In fact, Intel is the only player in the top 17 not posting a positive gain for 2021, instead posting a 1% contraction in sales.  This is -11% effective to the industry average growth of +10%.  That translates to about $800 million less money in the bank. The company has been facing supply issues for longer than other manufacturers, mostly related to the various delays with its 10nm and 7nm products. The company even started porting some of its semiconductor designs (e.g. Comet Lake) to less technologically-advanced production nodes. The fact that the company took so long to ramp up its 10nm SuperFin technology also meant that a highly competent AMD could wreak havoc with Intel's portfolio through solid execution — and more than a little help from TSMC's expertise.

AMD itself, which has been executing on its roadmaps with a cadence that once would have made the old Andy Grove at Intel proud, AMD is expected to post an incredible 65% revenue growth compared to its 2020 results, going from $9.7 billion in 2020 to $16 billion, and breaking the $10 billion milestone. NXP and Analog Devices will also seemingly manage to hit that mark. MediaTek comes in behind AMD with its also tremendous 60% growth, buoyed by high-performance Arm designs and by the company's 5G portfolio.


So, 10nm super fin (alias the BS renamed "Intel 7") simply came too late and too little to help Intel keep its overall ranking in the industry.   This also brings up the lack of current general lithography supply issues within Intel again as there are not enough 10nm super fin lithography lines to run all the chips needed to move Intel forward in any sort of sufficiently fast fashion.



A Deep Breath and a pause for reflection.

This next image is one day old.   This is a tired somewhat ragged looking Pat Gelsinger proudly pointing at a 3 layer thick combined 10nm & 14nm super fin processor sample, one built using Alder Lake technology that is sucking in all sorts of power to just barely beat AMD's current products that run twice as economically on much less power consumption.  

This is a picture of "Intel is now trying to spend AMD into the ground" in other words.  This combined lithography, 3 stacked layer monster is PHYSICALLY HUGE (over twice as big as AMD's M4 socket product and it is pushing old 10nm and 14nm technology strongly into places it has never been taken before.  

BUT it is working at a very uneconomical power level ....... and Intel can apparently afford to build a fair quantity of them at a partial loss right now.   It also requires a new motherboard with an equally gigantic socket and a equally capable supersized cooler to cool the beast down, as its net performance advantage is slim when cold and that advantage can quickly disappear due to the processors overheating.

Alder Lake is still winning on paper against AMD at the moment, but it is taking up a LOT of Intel price support $$$ to do so.



Pat is looking and acting sort of desperate somewhat right now because if he can't get his hands on a chunk of the $80,000,000,000 in Biden Build Back Better Bucks real soon his Intel house of price supported cards is going to start to fall down around his ears again ...........

Tongue

If he does get his hands on the Biden money he can limp along pretty good until he needs his next hand out, as he has spent his own money like a true liberal democrat (i.e. spent CAPITAL EXPANSION money he does not really have) for most of this past year.


Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 12/22/21 at 23:56:52 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #256 - 12/22/21 at 13:55:33
 

Good news ---- Intel is finally taking delivery and installing "two" state of the art ASML scanners, but they are for year before last's 5nm lithography level though.

And not enough of them are being installed to support all of what Intel needs to be building right now at 5nm.

Bad news ---- Build Back Better has just died in Congress and Intel won't ever get their Build Back Better Bucks (sorry).

Meanwhile,

AMD has been rolling down to 6nm headed firmly towards 5nm and 4nm and soon will start up a heavy 3nm production flow on their video card system chips.

I find it odd that 3nm is good for video card processors, but is not good for CPUs (unless you are Apple, that is)          Roll Eyes


===================================================


https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/asmls-backlog-doubled-in-q2/

This is an important read for you ---- ASML was sitting at over 3+ years of active delay on their total waiting list ........ but now ASML is now being told by their own Dutch government to take drastic action to double up the production rate & numbers of their most modern scanners, and to do it ASAP.

This is their own government telling them to do this on a national priority basis as all of the NATO Alliance depends on processors from state of the art ASML production machines for their technical and military survival.

Funding for this extraordinary floor expansion at ASML is being provided by the US and others, these are the same others that see China flying flights of attack bombers over the Taiwan TSMC plants as a direct threat being made to their own country both economically and militarily.

Needless to say, these are going to be brand new modern EUV ASML scanners that will not be installed in Taiwan which is geographically totally and completely subject to the whims of the Chinese military machine .......
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/23/22 at 21:40:22 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #257 - 12/26/21 at 05:26:46
 


AMD and Intel are releasing new "rumors" about their next generations.

AMD talks a bit about some future thing that has a casual or real basis, and Intel will immediately pop off some "far future" plan that 1) is shortly overwritten by their later waves of released BS information  2) is never intended to be taken seriously as Intel does not know what they really plan to do that far out.

AMD is now talking about solid plans for 30 times more processing speed using Xylinx tech combined with AMD 64 bit x86 tech.   This presumes TSMC continuing on down the lithography chain, which is at 7nm drifting down to 5nm.   These are well documented "mainframe" style plans, plans that you must do after announcing them.

Last time AMD talked about this sort of stuff, it was for a 20x improvement level which AMD then hit and exceeded on their claims as TSMC 7nm matured.

AMD designs all their stuff for MAINFRAME processors first and foremost, then adapts the more capable chiplets for their consumer & gaming machines.   Mainframe users want lower power consumption (saves money on utilities and on data farm cooling) and ever increasing processing speed.   These mainframe priorities then get reflected through the rest of the AMD product families.

AMD chiplets are already twice as energy efficient as Intel tiles, with both players offering about the same current processor speeds (Intel just uses far more power and cooling $$$) to get there.

AMD offers far cheaper motherboards with standard A-4 sockets that continue to be able to be upgraded with just installing a new processor and upgrading the board BIOS.  

AMD will upgrade to an A-5 socket soon, which mean buying a new motherboard will then last for approximately 10 years before getting replaced with an A-6 socket motherboard.

Intel intentionally churns their entire world of stuff every year lately---- this means lots of new stuff is force sold to Intel fanboys whether needed by them or not.    Intel motherboards are now costing twice as much as AMD motherboards and that trend is getting more and more noticeable as YOU CAN"T JUST GO OUT AND BUY THE LATEST STATE OF THE BRAG INTEL MOTHERBOARDS RIGHT NOW (various chip shortages, you know).


==================================================


MindShare, Amazon and other major processor sales centers that supply users that build their own systems continue to see AMD latest and greatest selling through in far larger numbers compared to Intel.   Intel is currently being hampered by lack of new motherboards to hold the new huge Alder Lake chipsets and MS itself lacks the Windows OS optimizations to properly support the new Alderlake processors.

Attitude in the Computer press seems to be that "in 4 weeks AMD comes out with their next generation of stuff, talk to us after that stuff gets rolled out and we will see the 2022 winners."

I think Toms Hardware has called it, in 4 weeks the stuff will be all neck and neck again.   Mainframe and workstation boys will prefer AMD as it is more stable, sockets last longer, it requires half the power and half the cooling system that Alder Lake would require and systems memory required is cheaper and easier to buy.

People buying pre-made boxes will only see the same old Intel stuff sitting out on the shelves until all existing stocks are all bought up .......   (Intel still has that strong of a legal contractual lock on the box builders).
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/04/22 at 13:37:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #258 - 12/29/21 at 06:02:16
 

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i5-12400-beats-the-core-i9-11900k-rocket-lake...

Intel Core i5-12400 $180 US 6 Core 4.4 GHz CPU Beats The $500+ Core i9-11900K 5.3 GHz CPU In Gaming Benchmarks

The Intel Core i5-12400 will feature a 6 core and 12 thread design and will comprise only of Golden Cove (P-Cores).  The Intel Core i5-12400 Alder Lake CPU aims to be one of the best gaming chips, not only within the 12th Gen family but in general. We have already seen several benchmarks of the chip where it runs on par with the Ryzen 5 5600X and even beats it in several cases while consuming lower power and running cooler.


I used to say that Intel cheated on benchmarks, then I began saying that modern benchmarks needed to be re-written so that Intel couldn't spoof them quite so easily.

Now we have a $180 Intel Alder Lake i5 chip with some interesting claims of equaling and beating the Ryzen 5 5600x and doing this with all of its Alder Lake efficiency cores lasered off with this brutal gelding being done simply to cut down on the huge amount of power this HUGE Intel circumcised monstrosity still wants to consume.

Now here is the real rub --- the $180 Intel circumcised Alder Lake struggles to beat a Ryzen 5 5600x but the wild arsed results Intel is claiming for this $180 i5-12400 chipset exceeds the gaming benchmarks of their own $500+ Intel Core i9-11900K 5.3 GHz CPU.......            wow   Shocked   Roll Eyes    Shocked

Yet Intel also still claims the i9-11900K at 5.3 ghz beats all comers by a wide margin .......  (very strong smell of baitfish baking in sunshine on the aluminum boat seat is going on here).

Intel marketing is simply beyond my ability to follow ---- and most PC gamer fans seem to think likewise because they are NOT buying very much Intel Alder Lake at the moment.   The customer base seems to be waiting for AMD to come "one up" Alder Lake with something that is totally real that can be both independently tested and readily understood.  

Grin

And yeah, you know it is coming, soon real soon ......
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 12/31/21 at 06:37:05 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #259 - 12/29/21 at 21:32:23
 

China is stacking old style primitive large lithography stuff up on three layers deep stacked daughter boards (something they learned from watching Intel, I think).

All of the limited support documentation is in Chinese, and it is FAR FAR less than a current Raspberry Pi at this point in time, but it came on quickly, very quickly ......





The Sipeed Lichee RV is an inexpensive computer-on-a-module featuring a single core 64 bit Allwinner D1 RISC-V processor, 512MB of RAM, and a microSD card reader for storage. First announced in November, it’s a module that you could theoretically use as a standalone computer thanks to an onboard USB-OTG port, it’s missing a few features like a display output.

But now Sipeed is selling a tiny, affordable dock that gives the little computer HDMI and USB Type-A ports, among other things.

The Sipeed Lichee RV module sells for $17 and you can pick up a dock for $5 (or $8 if you want a model with built-in WiFi and Bluetooth support). You can also save a buck by purchasing a $21 bundle that includes a LicheeRV + dock.


Grin

Wow, a clone of the original single core Raspberry Pi power level with modern I/O and M-2 storage coming from China for $25 complete with finished I/O, substantial storage and Ubuntu support.    The Chinese do not lack the get-to-it-tive-ness needed to overcome obstacles and to compete.

Makes you wonder what Allwinner will be shipping internal to China later this year, and how many short years it will take for the Pi Brits to feel threatened by this very rapid RISC-V development and growth enough to actually go significantly upgrade their Brit stuff again ........


Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 12/30/21 at 17:22:06 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #260 - 12/31/21 at 06:34:37
 

CES AMD "pre-announcement" RUMORS


5.0+ ghz processor speeds are achieved off the production stock cooler set ups.

Power consumption still be less than half that of Intel.

Throughput will be neck and neck with Intel again.

Memory for this generation is far cheaper than what Intel requires.

Processor and socket are still less than half the VERY LARGE SIZE and huge power draw of Intel's Alder Lake processors.


===================================================


Reality check on them rumors listed at the top of this post .........

Yep, 5+ GHZ achieved, got double the memory on top of the existing layers (3 layer deep)

Package is same size area-wise but has slight difference in pin out configuration.

Looks like this ........   can you see them three thin 6m full sized layers stacked neatly on top of each other?



Supposedly this 6nm triple stack's performance is neck and neck or slightly better than what Intel Alder Lake can do (with Alder Lake burning over 2x the energy use from your device and demanding 2-3 times the cooling energy consumption --- but hey, you will need to wait a week for the real world testing results from Toms and ArsTechnica and the others as AMD does not send out a press package complete with all the tests pre-done by some Intel paid specialty house off of some special binned chipsets conveniently run on a freon cooler rig.    

AMD simply says "go buy an upcoming Ryzen 6000 APU series chipset at retail inside a real competitor product and then test it and tell us what you think about it FOR REAL.




Tongue

REMEMBER, Intel's latest and greatest 10nm and 14nm 3 layer stack up still looks like this.

Why is Pat Gelsinger so proud of that GIGANTIC HUGE POWER-SUCKING BLOATED PIG OF A PRICE-SUPPORTED INTEL OVERBUILT ABORTION I certainly do not know.  



Alder Lake is not really selling through very well and now you know why.    Intel has just announced new plans for TSMC to build entire production generations of their chipsets for them and now you know why about that too.

Would you buy a fab from this guy using this level of technology ?????



==================================================



I watched the CES keynotes from AMD and Intel -----  I came away amazed that AMD is bluntly saying the 6000 APUs just out from AMD will outperform dedicated NVIDIA laptop graphics cards plus the best current Intel processors that are shipping out in this quarter.

30+% more powerful and 30+% more efficient --- this would be hard to beat by Intel or by ARM.     Frankly, the news from AMD is so good I have to say "Let's wait to see what ArsTechnica has to say about the first finished units before getting all excited".



BUT THERE IS MORE .....    Ryzen 7000 desktop chipsets will offer similar or slightly better uptick results yet again in the second half of this year.   To try to really compete against Ryzen 7000 on the desktop, Intel will HAVE to have TSMC up and running on large production lots of newly designed Intel chipsets, or else have dedicated their very few newest Intel Dutch 5nm ASML scanners 100% to run these brand new designs and have them all working correctly right off the bat.

Some really big risk levels in this for Intel, in my humble opinion .......


===================================================


I just re-watched the Intel CES presentation again ----- and I was not deluded or mis-remembering.
Intel said NOTHING and used a whole lot of vague generalities to get there.

AMD had 6nm hitting now and 5nm starting in about 5 months, in both cases quoting throughput improvement specs and concrete expectations along with current draw expectations.

Aside from some vague generalities, Intel has nothing concrete to communicate at CES.    I question if Intel has even got a firm plan on what they are going to be building and where they are going to be building it six months from now, much less any form of sampled processors.




Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/04/22 at 13:47:10 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #261 - 01/04/22 at 13:31:49
 

Intel had been pushing loud claims of 25+% improvements in their laptop performance suddenly jumps their claims to 40+% when faced with 30+% improvements in Ryzen 6000.

This is the same war of lies that Intel wages all the time.    Simply run your tests hotter and you too can beat AMD's best.   Trust your specialty house and their Freon cooler rig to keep it all together.

For how long does not play in any Intel testing as they never wait around for the inevitable BIOS throttling to take place.   Just quote all performance numbers off the big cores and take the energy usage off only the little cores ........


Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/04/22 at 15:10:09 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #262 - 01/04/22 at 23:03:37
 

Claim and counter claim have run their course at CES yet again ......  Intel is still in the game and is now desperately scrambling to get TSMC to run them a low lithography family of chipsets so that Intel can survive for another year.

AMD's roadmap is simply implacable, and AMD has backup production scheduled at Samsung if TSMC cannot make all of what AMD needs.

Intel is competing now on all fronts just as hard as they can.   But Intel is behind on lithography and Intel's old partners like MS are suddenly showing up over in AMD's corner .......

Intel cannot simply run hotter and hotter and use this to claim to be faster any longer.   A day of reckoning has come, motherboard charring is taking place under Intel's massive chipsets.

Cooler tech to support what Intel needs for cooling is not there, not in anything you can take home with you anyway.

But credit to Pat's boys is due too, they still keep on trying just as hard as they can no matter how off base they may be.

Lies during CES are not new from Intel, but this complete lack of any new anything "factual" is somewhat clear to those who choose to look at it.   Intel is beyond stressed, it is completely punch drunk.


Hard Fact:  Intel is shrinking in an expanding marketplace.  

TSMC and Samsung are both larger and more important than Intel and none of Pat Gelsinger's "envisioning" is going to change that.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/06/22 at 11:56:22 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #263 - 01/04/22 at 23:47:47
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svRDkmmjvuM

"Stay tuned, more Intel excitement is ahead."    

Really?   I bet this latest BS wave gets sorted by the reputable computer press within 2-3 days from now ......




Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/07/22 at 05:00:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #264 - 01/06/22 at 10:01:53
 

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/6/22870060/intel-announces-5-5ghz-capable-12t...

After teasing the news earlier this week, Intel has officially announced a new 12th-gen desktop CPU that’s capable of boosting to 5.5GHz on a single core out of the box. The news came during Intel’s CES 2022 presentation, when it said the KS-series desktop processor would be shipping later this quarter, but there was no mention of pricing.

The full name of the chip is the Core i9-12900KS, and Tom’s Hardware notes the “S’’ suffix suggests it’ll be a limited edition. As well as hitting a maximum of 5.5GHz on a single core (a 300MHz improvement over what we saw with the i9-12900K), an onstage demonstration of the new CPU powering Hitman 3 showed the processor running at a sustained 5.2GHz across all its performance cores.  No details were given on what sort of power draw or cooling solution was needed to achieve these results.

The processor was announced onstage during Intel’s CES presentation.  Unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like you’ll be able to buy Intel’s 5.5GHz CPU for your own rig anytime soon. Intel executive vice president Gregory Bryant noted only that the CPU would be shipping to “OEM customers” during the presentation suggesting that, in the immediate future, you’ll have to buy a prebuilt PC to get your hands on one of the chips.


OK, most Alder Lake chips have a single good core that can hit 5.2 GHz for real, just like Alder Lake normally can do.   One out of 100 processors has a single core that can go up to 5.5 GHz on these specially sorted and binned processors, but only for a short duration (only seconds in duration), but only when using an Intel "recommended cooler system" is used and the processor is stone cold on a chilled cold start up and only when using a special Intel recommended power supply (as a very large wattage of power is required to go that fast).

These specially binned Intel processors supported with special cooling requirements and over-sized power supplies will only be provided to certain favored Intel OEMs who will post their testing results off of them so Intel can make more "verified" exaggerated claims of their Alder Lake prowess.

Wink      Standard Intel smoke and mirrors is going on to a degree, in other words .......


===================================================


Linus Tech Tips has some words to share about that Intel "recommended cooler".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPdpS_6ln-o

........  and the real progress AMD has made just these last few weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGHbrUOoKjI


There will likely only be one midrange 6nm AMD chipset supposedly, as AMD 5nm will roll up to their next step in the road map very very shortly, especially shortly if Intel continues to keep the big big pressure up with Alder Lake processors they way they have been doing.   AMD has bigger guns already sitting in the armory and a whole generational sized lithography progression they can quickly uncork to compete more effectively with Intel.  

Intel, on the other hand has two 5nm ASML lines they just took shipment on .......

Roll Eyes

On each side of this competition the players can't do everything across the board all at the same time, so look to see each one do what counts the most for each one of them.

Grin



Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/07/22 at 14:24:29 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #265 - 01/07/22 at 04:37:18
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EogHCFd7w0

Linus Tech Tips says Win 11's big and little core scheduler and Intel big little processors constitute a compelling win right now and AMD needs to bring forward their next competitive (big little) processor generations immediately.

AMD can no longer intentionally stretch out its progress pipeline because Intel "requires no additional response from us" right now.   Intel requires a response alright, RIGHT NOW !!!

AMD certainly can't complacently follow its 2022 roadmap as is because the next two stair steps in that roadmap are already partially overcome by events.


===================================================


There is one other cause for "sticking to the schedule" delay, however ------ you must pre-schedule your TSMC production slots and pre-.pay for your production materials costs when you do the scheduling.    Sunk costs constitute a pretty good reason to follow the plan, but to also adjust that plan as much as can be done at this stage of things.

AMD has good relations with TSMC, so they may have some wiggle room here --- especially if TSMC is taking some image hits from Intel's unexpectedly good performance on this topic.

Once again, look to see TSMC treat Intel more like a competitor Fab trying to offload a capacity issue rather than a simple pay for a production lot customer.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/13/22 at 15:18:56 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #266 - 01/10/22 at 17:32:52
 

https://liliputing.com/2022/01/pbp-vs-tdp-intel-changes-power-consumption-sta...l

PBP vs TDP: Intel changes power consumption definitions starting with 12th-gen chips

by BRAD LINDER  01/10/2022

PBP vs TDP: Intel changes power consumption starting with 12th-gen chips.  

For years Intel has used TDP or “Thermal Design Power” to give a rough approximation of how much power a processor uses. While TDP actually measures how much heat is generated as a way of letting PC makers know what level of cooling is needed, it also gives users a hint at a chip’s power consumption… but over the years that hint has gotten more vague since chips can greatly exceed their TDP thanks to Turbo Boost and similar technologies.

So starting with its 12th-gen “Alder Lake” processors, Intel is no longer providing TDP figures. Instead the company has replaced that figure with a new “Processor Base Power” or PBP number.

What’s the difference? Honestly, as far as I can tell, nothing that makes sense. But the new name gives us a better idea of what the number is actually trying to measure: the average amount of heat that needs to be dissipated by a processor when running at its base frequency.

More importantly though, Intel is also now providing a few additional numbers, including the “Maximum Turbo Power.” This should do a better job of letting you know not only how much power your computer is using when running at its base frequency, but how much it will use when running at higher frequencies using Turbo Boost technology.

Processor Base Power (PBP): This is basically the new name for TDP, and measures the average level of heat generated during high-complexity workloads while a chip is running at its base frequency.

Maximum Turbo Power (MTP): This figure represents the amount of heat generated at maximum Turbo Boost frequencies over “sustained” periods of longer than one second. Formerly known as cTDP Up, this number will be higher (often substantially higher) than the PBP.

Intel debuted the new PBP and MTP nomenclature when the first Alder Lake chips for desktops launched late last year, but now that the company has also launched 12th-gen mobile chips, it’s particularly helpful to have the new Max Turbo Power figure because it will help figure out whether a laptop would benefit from active freon cooling or if it can run passively and/or give you a better handle on the chip’s expected impact on battery life when running resource-intensive tasks.

Most Intel Alder Lake mobile product descriptions also include a “Minimum Assured Power” figure, which Intel describes vaguely as an updated name for what used to be called cTDP Down, or the amount of heat generated by a chip that’s been “dynamically adjusted to a desired system performance and power envelope.” In other words PC makers will have the option of underclocking/undervolting chips for some systems such as thinner, lighter, and potentially fanless computers and this figure gives an idea of the power consumption/thermal performance of chips running in this mode.

There’s also now a “Maximum Assured Power” figure which suggests Intel will allow PC makers to overclock chips as well, but that figure doesn’t seem to be widely reported in the Intel Ark chip database.


Intel throws out a set of new "non-definitions" of Intel input power draw numbers that totally hides the fact that Intel can now suck energy and throw out HUGE amounts of processor heat like nothing that was ever seen before the recent Alder Lake processors.

Intel stock basic power draw is easily twice what AMD requires to do basically the same job.   But that is just Intel stock basic power, Intel also has several turbo modes and even some much higher MAX TURBO MODES that can go double base power again and can to up to 4x higher than the Intel stock basic power draw in MAX TURBO MODE as the complex MS system balancing software sees any chance to use these any of these 4 various Intel hyperclocking schemes.

THE TOTAL EFFECTIVE COOLING SYSTEM CARRYING LOAD in your hardware unit become the real output limiter for an Intel Alder Lake Processor.

There is no such thing as cheating any longer, Intel and MS will recognize any chance to go faster just as long as they can dump the heat produced to do so.


===================================================


Follow up on 1/25/22

The first laptops with Alder Lake are shipping this week.   Performance and power draw numbers are being reported as:

Processor Base Power and Maximum Turbo Power to indicate that these are chips that will use between 45 and 115 watts. For the most part you’re only going to see power consumption spikes up to 115 watts for very brief periods, but under load you can expect these chips to consume as much as 85 watts for an extended period of time. And that’s just the processor.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/25/22 at 09:19:58 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28755
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 2020
Reply #267 - 01/10/22 at 20:32:28
 
Hey OF... there's your room heater right there.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #268 - 01/11/22 at 03:56:28
 

Roll Eyes

Let's see ...... purchase price over $1600 and then you pay electrical utility rates for your electrical resistance heat, plus you pay for an internet service, plus pay a Microsoft tax every other year .......

no, no thank you
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/18/22 at 06:20:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12637
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #269 - 01/18/22 at 05:55:46
 

https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-ceo-says-amd-is-in-the-rearview-mirror-and-neve...

Intel CEO says AMD is in the rearview mirror and 'never again will they be in the windshield'

Intel's CEO Pat Geslinger gives encouraging Christmas greetings to his Intel troops who are still suffering from being laid off and degraded with no raises for several years by his predecessors.  



In it, Pat gives out his gut feelings on the next few years that supposedly will contain 4 waves of Intel manufacturing upgrades (some rented from TSMC, some purchased outright from ASML).

Pat simply says that this is the low inflection point, the very lowest point in Intel's decline and from now on things should get better and better.   If Pat Geslinger's house of cards holds up, he is likely correct in this estimation.   Things are still somewhat shaky, especially with Joe Biden being too weak to move forward with his Build Back Better Plan but the deals and government bail outs still seem to be likely to happen eventually so I guess Pat is telling his troops the truth as he currently sees it.

Intel's Alder Lake gives Pat his first technical leadership position for at least part of 2022, but AMD will take that leadership back when they roll down to Ryzen 7000 later this year.   AMD requires no bail out bucks, which means that they will forge forward no matter what Biden can promise to give to Intel.

Intel is currently running on brown vapor fumes and using some really extreme hyperclocking to brand new VERY extreme levels right now.

Even so, Intel Alder Lake is actually up on top in the processor rankings right now .......  and if Geslinger gets his stream of Biden bucks he will likely trade places back and forth with AMD several times over the next few years.

Historically speaking, an ascendant Intel always keeps AMD around just to keep monopoly claims from bothering Intel too much .......  as Intel freewheels around acting just like a monopoly.


==================================================


An Eventful Week for Intel and others ......

Intel declares they are back on top again.  

Intel declares another 20 billion dollar new dual plant site in Ohio.  Joe Biden is quick to claim credit for this imaginary progress for his administration (these are the same people who cannot pass the funding for what Intel is hanging its neck out so badly to do).

NVIDIA declares they are a bigger American chipset supplier than Intel actually is and announces their plans to move CPU compute power over inside their big big graphics card sets.  Yes, NVIDIA already has the tech to do this tomorrow AM if they choose to release the drivers to do so.  NVIDIA already does this in mainframe world so the tech is not new to anybody.   See AMD move to do likewise if NVIDIA does indeed move to do this.

FTC follows through with their lawsuit to stop NVIDIA from taking over ARM Holdings (located in British UK).   This puts the UK, America and Belgium against the takeover with China saying they will not give approval at this time.

China is now doing the "will not give approval at this time" thing to the AMD and Xilinx merger now.   Being strictly an inside the USA affair, technically it is none of China's business, but Joe Biden will apparently continue to allow China to be the sole (and only) obstructionist in this AMD / Xilinx case.   Why ???  ...... because Joe Biden and his current administration is that weak and stupid.

AMD quietly rolls forward with existing plans (and quietly puts out some increased requirements for some much better coolers for their biggest chipsets).   AMD has TSMC both build and package all their new chipsets in their most modern plants in Taiwan, so do not be surprised when the new finished processors and cooling systems suddenly pop up in the world wide marketplace, quietly and without a lot of fuss.  

These new processors will be built with an improved cooling system in mind, as the ability to dump the heat made by the chipset actually makes up the "upper limits" that you can claim for that processor.   Both AMD and Intel are top end limited by their cooling systems, so look to see a cooling system war quickly develop as both sides see the importance of good cooling.



 
====================================================


https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-12900k-vs-ryzen-9-5900x-5950x

Tom's ranks Intel as a "4 out of 5 categories" winner in this latest showdown comparison.  AMD needs to bring forward their most modern biggest 5nm "big little" gun to deliver a big win across the board.   Being unable to do so by the end of this year means Intel simply rules uncontested using their freakishly high current draws and all the various Intel hyperclocking tricks.  

The Intel hyper-clocking tricks will soon become the industry standard and AMD will be sidelined again as a stick in the mud "also ran".



Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/25/22 at 22:08:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/27/24 at 07:27:48



General CategoryThe Cafe › AMD & others --- Intel dominance in 2022


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.