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Good morning...... (Read 207 times)
srinath
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #30 - 12/03/19 at 07:18:11
 
Neither of the 2 in 16 were for the working man.
No one in the 20 field is any better (though I must admit, I am not looking at any of them in too much detail).

Everyone wants to rob us blind. it just remains to be seen who they will give that loot to.

Like this old joke in India, where a barber has rates for a haircut. Regular 5, deluxe 20.
Customer asks him, what's the difference.
Regular = if we cut off your eat, this stray mutt would eat it.
Customer says, oh, deluxe = you are careful and don't cut off my ear.
He says no, nothing like that, but this purebred german sheppard will eat your ear.

Take your pick.

A slick politician will steal a million and spend a billion covering it up.
No one gets to the top of this pile without being a slick politician.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #31 - 12/03/19 at 08:55:13
 
srinath wrote on 12/03/19 at 07:18:11:
Neither of the 2 in 16 were for the working man.

I somewhat agree... only a little.  By far, trump's puppeteers just put things in front of him to sign and that's all he's done.  At the very least, Hillary would have helped craft bills and not been an embarrassment on the world stage.  But that's all water over the dam now.

No one in the 20 field is any better (though I must admit, I am not looking at any of them in too much detail).

I disagree - Bernie is by far the best candidate in 20.  He's the only one in the entire field that has never - ever - wavered in his beliefs.  He's been fighting for the middle class and poor his entire political career.

Everyone wants to rob us blind. it just remains to be seen who they will give that loot to.

I'll pay my fair share of taxes and feel a whole lot better about it if I can see some real results.  Medicare for all, student loan reforms, free public colleges, a real effort to combat homelessness, etc.  Far better than a tax cut for the 1%, increasing military spending (on everything but soldier pay), etc.

Like this old joke in India, where a barber has rates for a haircut. Regular 5, deluxe 20.
Customer asks him, what's the difference.
Regular = if we cut off your eat, this stray mutt would eat it.
Customer says, oh, deluxe = you are careful and don't cut off my ear.
He says no, nothing like that, but this purebred german sheppard will eat your ear.

Take your pick.

A slick politician will steal a million and spend a billion covering it up.
No one gets to the top of this pile without being a slick politician.

Check out Bernie and how he wants to get money out of politics.... (that's one of the reasons the establishment on both sides hates him)

Cool.
Srinath.

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srinath
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #32 - 12/03/19 at 09:46:17
 
T And T Garage wrote on 12/03/19 at 08:55:13:
srinath wrote on 12/03/19 at 07:18:11:
Neither of the 2 in 16 were for the working man.

I somewhat agree... only a little.  By far, trump's puppeteers just put things in front of him to sign and that's all he's done.  At the very least, Hillary would have helped craft bills and not been an embarrassment on the world stage.  But that's all water over the dam now.

No one in the 20 field is any better (though I must admit, I am not looking at any of them in too much detail).

I disagree - Bernie is by far the best candidate in 20.  He's the only one in the entire field that has never - ever - wavered in his beliefs.  He's been fighting for the middle class and poor his entire political career.

Everyone wants to rob us blind. it just remains to be seen who they will give that loot to.

I'll pay my fair share of taxes and feel a whole lot better about it if I can see some real results.  Medicare for all, student loan reforms, free public colleges, a real effort to combat homelessness, etc.  Far better than a tax cut for the 1%, increasing military spending (on everything but soldier pay), etc.

Like this old joke in India, where a barber has rates for a haircut. Regular 5, deluxe 20.
Customer asks him, what's the difference.
Regular = if we cut off your eat, this stray mutt would eat it.
Customer says, oh, deluxe = you are careful and don't cut off my ear.
He says no, nothing like that, but this purebred german sheppard will eat your ear.

Take your pick.

A slick politician will steal a million and spend a billion covering it up.
No one gets to the top of this pile without being a slick politician.

Check out Bernie and how he wants to get money out of politics.... (that's one of the reasons the establishment on both sides hates him)

Cool.
Srinath.




While I like some of those ideas, there is 2 things I have to say.
The 1% doesn't have enough $$$ to cover all the Bernie promises. The 90% will get bitten, and most of them will pay more than they receive.
Then, open borders - you fundamentally can not have rich social benefits and open borders without sliding fast into bankruptcy. And that's not even counting the ones that will get attracted due to the free benefits.
Bernie's ideas are likely to be very very $$$. Much like the free $$$ for everyone from the other guy. Still a Bernie on the ticket would be better than any one else. Maybe Tulsi as well. We'll have to see who makes it out of the gate, I suspect the big $$$ will kill these 2 soon.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #33 - 12/03/19 at 10:00:07
 
srinath wrote on 12/03/19 at 09:46:17:
While I like some of those ideas, there is 2 things I have to say.
The 1% doesn't have enough $$$ to cover all the Bernie promises.

That's not his plan.  It would not be all on the shoulders of the 1%.  There's corporations, estate taxes, cutting some military spending and yes, tax increases.  But people like me (and maybe you) spend thousands a year on our health insurance.  When it's all said and done, it's not really that far of a stretch.

The 90% will get bitten, and most of them will pay more than they receive.
Then, open borders - you fundamentally can not have rich social benefits and open borders without sliding fast into bankruptcy. And that's not even counting the ones that will get attracted due to the free benefits.

"Open borders"?  Seriously?  The right-wing talking point?  You seem too intelligent to fall for that one.

Bernie doesn't want "open borders".
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-immigration/

But the right-wingers will tell you otherwise.  Sad that so many fall for it.


Bernie's ideas are likely to be very very $$$. Much like the free $$$ for everyone from the other guy. Still a Bernie on the ticket would be better than any one else. Maybe Tulsi as well. We'll have to see who makes it out of the gate, I suspect the big $$$ will kill these 2 soon.

I don't think so.  In sheer number of individual donations, Bernie leads the pack with almost 750,000.  That says something.

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Srinath.

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Re: Good morning......
Reply #34 - 12/03/19 at 10:35:19
 
11 million, must be in his home state of VT. When's he planning to count people outside ? Probably after he's president.
Seriously they can make up any numbers to fit any theory.
The immigration reform is another BS that both sides want, and IMHO, the only reform I want to see, entire system needs to be closed off and all illegals be deported. I also don't want any further legal immigration.
That's not a right wing or a left wing anything. They all seem to be blind to the laws of supply and demand with both sides parroting that they want immigration in high tech. Try educating the ones that are already here and not pushing "liberal arts" and charging people ridiculous college tuitions. Which is another system where the supply chain is broken. Get an education here that is 100K or more only to be told its worthless and they want high tech from India or China where you can get an education that's very very cheap - because its not completely busted.
The second simple reason is, we need to have a working system with a shrinking population. Increasing the population in any part of the world that needs to heat their house is utterly black (opposite of green) for the environment. The entire employment based immigration system is completely rife with abuse and massive fraud, discrimination and it turns everyone into a slave. If 1/2 your cohorts are slaves, all of us are.
I am too smart to fall for any of these lies. There is plenty on both sides. The fact is, in the US we need to have a system that functions with a shrinking population. Not an ever increasing one. We can in some cases add 30 people in India for 1 in the US in terms of co2. I cant believe how every politician contradicts themselves issue to issue. You want less co2 - don't push people to veganism, push them into Mexico.

No, the supply chain of every commodity from Ass to Zebra is broken. No one is getting what they are paying for, and those that are working are getting shafted. Both sides are clueless to that fact.

The "medical reform" I want to see - prices on the wall at every doctor/hospital and all other applicable locations. They can do it at a restaurant, why cant they do it at the doctor.

The only way bringing in workers on some visa or another will ever work is if we tax them at full Bernie while cutting them off from benefits and not allowing any further immigration process. They come here on a visa, and when visa runs out, they are done. when they leave, get their ssn put in an inactive status. If they get another visa issue another SSN with no provable continuity to the previous SSN (as in law enforcement can see it in case there were outstanding crimes or priors, but they cant accumulate benefits like SSI or medicare).

Bernie talks a good game, but the numbers do not add up. Its a 0 sum game. You can say end the wars. Great, then you have the soldiers who are now out of a paycheck, the companies making war equipment out of orders, etc etc if that is one way to save $$$, those people need to find work, again - illegals and legal immigrants have to make way for them. Bernie and a few others have said end the wars, but never anything about what those people will do when they return.

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srinath
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #35 - 12/03/19 at 11:11:35
 
Immigration

Bernie Sanders has said that we are a “nation of immigrants. That is, in fact, the strength of America.” Bernie believes that America’s immigration system is “profoundly broken,” and he supports immigration reform that will address the legal status of the roughly 11 million undocumented people in our country.

Bernie has released a comprehensive plan A Welcoming and Safe America for All that supports visa reform, securing the border, and protecting both guest workers and undocumented workers from labor exploitation. Bernie believes that the U.S. should hire “hundreds of new judges” to expedite the processing of asylum claims by immigrants fleeing persecution or violence. Bernie has spoken out strongly against President Trump’s “Muslim ban,” saying that the ban “has always been a racist and anti-Islamic attempt to ban Muslims from entering this country.” Bernie has called upon Trump to rescind the ban, and has cosponsored seven bills in the Senate to overturn the ban.

The Need for Immigration Reform: America’s immigration system is “profoundly broken” and must be fixed.

Path to Citizenship: We ought to provide a path to legal residency or citizenship for most undocumented immigrants in the country today.

DREAM Act: Bernie supports the path toward permanent residency for young undocumented immigrants.

Visa Reform: Bernie reject the exploitation of workers and the use of visas for cheap, foreign labor. We must increase opportunities for qualified individuals to take steps towards permanent residency.

Border Security: We can and must secure borders without building a fence
Economic Exploitation: We can have a fair economy that accomodates undocumented immigrants and American workers without discrimination and manipulation of wages

OK that's a bit different than in 16.
The pink highlighted part is the only one I would agree with.

11 million - vastly under counted. Likely 40 million atleast.
Protecting undocumented and legal, I guess citizens get the shaft like they do now.
100's of new judges.... yeaaaayyyy more $$$ going out - aka my $ to do the opposite of what I want. Sort of ripping my arm of and slapping me with it.
Profoundly broken immigration system needs to be shut down. No immigrants or non immigrants or anything. Plenty of people here with "liberal arts" degrees and debt. Get them to do the crap immigrants are doing. That way they can pay their college loans too.
Path to citizenship. No, lesser co2 by pathing them clean back to mexico (or wherever they came from). We're not full, we're frozen. Since you want to not freeze, we cant afford the co2. Refer to Bernie's climate change plan for further details.
Dream act - No nuts, dream for them nightmare for all taxpaying workers. Lowers wages, raises costs of living and taxes. Its called supply and demand.
Visa reform. Yes, prevent all the exploitation by letting them all self deport and protect American workers.
Border security. Yes no fence, 100% electronic and bio metric based. No citizenship, no nothing, no employment, no benefits, self deport.
Economic exploitation. This is impossible to stop with the numbers of visa and illegal workers.
I love this "undocumented" immigrants term. I think bank robbers are calling themselves "undocumented tellers" and rapists are calling themselves "undocumented boyfriends" nowadays.

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Srinath.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #36 - 12/03/19 at 11:52:08
 
srinath wrote on 12/03/19 at 10:35:19:
11 million, must be in his home state of VT. When's he planning to count people outside ? Probably after he's president.
Seriously they can make up any numbers to fit any theory.
The immigration reform is another BS that both sides want, and IMHO, the only reform I want to see, entire system needs to be closed off and all illegals be deported. I also don't want any further legal immigration.

LOL, seriously?  Why?  

That's not a right wing or a left wing anything. They all seem to be blind to the laws of supply and demand with both sides parroting that they want immigration in high tech. Try educating the ones that are already here and not pushing "liberal arts" and charging people ridiculous college tuitions. Which is another system where the supply chain is broken. Get an education here that is 100K or more only to be told its worthless and they want high tech from India or China where you can get an education that's very very cheap - because its not completely busted.

Another Bernie platform - free public college.

The second simple reason is, we need to have a working system with a shrinking population. Increasing the population in any part of the world that needs to heat their house is utterly black (opposite of green) for the environment. The entire employment based immigration system is completely rife with abuse and massive fraud, discrimination and it turns everyone into a slave. If 1/2 your cohorts are slaves, all of us are.
I am too smart to fall for any of these lies. There is plenty on both sides. The fact is, in the US we need to have a system that functions with a shrinking population. Not an ever increasing one. We can in some cases add 30 people in India for 1 in the US in terms of co2. I cant believe how every politician contradicts themselves issue to issue. You want less co2 - don't push people to veganism, push them into Mexico.

OK, whatever... not sure I can (or would want to) follow your logic.  But to each their own.

No, the supply chain of every commodity from Ass to Zebra is broken. No one is getting what they are paying for, and those that are working are getting shafted. Both sides are clueless to that fact.

Not so.  Again, one of the main problems in this country is unlimited bribery of our government.  No, it's not the only one, but certainly one of the biggest.  How can these corporations be making record profits while our roads and bridges crumble?  How can we have homeless yet protect the unlimited bribery of our Congress?  How can so many fall into bankruptcy due to medical bills yet Amazon pays close to zero in taxes?

The "medical reform" I want to see - prices on the wall at every doctor/hospital and all other applicable locations. They can do it at a restaurant, why cant they do it at the doctor.

Not a bad idea.  It'll never happen though because the lobbyists for the medical groups won't allow it.  They funnel millions to candidates who will do their bidding (are you seeing a trend here?)

The only way bringing in workers on some visa or another will ever work is if we tax them at full Bernie while cutting them off from benefits and not allowing any further immigration process.

LOL - that's actually funny.  Zero incentive works how again?  Why did you immigrate here?

They come here on a visa, and when visa runs out, they are done. when they leave, get their ssn put in an inactive status. If they get another visa issue another SSN with no provable continuity to the previous SSN (as in law enforcement can see it in case there were outstanding crimes or priors, but they cant accumulate benefits like SSI or medicare).

Bernie talks a good game, but the numbers do not add up. Its a 0 sum game. You can say end the wars. Great, then you have the soldiers who are now out of a paycheck, the companies making war equipment out of orders, etc etc if that is one way to save $$$, those people need to find work, again - illegals and legal immigrants have to make way for them. Bernie and a few others have said end the wars, but never anything about what those people will do when they return.

Your view, IMHO, is way too simplistic.  You seem to forget that when we had marginal tax rates in the 80% range, our country was building great things and leading the world in virtually every single sector.  Corporations didn't hoard cash, they invested it in its workers and in its own infrastructure.  Government was held in check by itself and actually fought against corporate corruption.

It's about time for this country to get its legs back underneath it and lead the world again.  Things like alternative energy production (solar, wind, even fusion), battery technology, computing technology, manufacturing (3D printing/exotic materials, etc), plant based food production might all sound "silly" to some, but are completely realistic and will become the necessary goals in the very near future.


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Re: Good morning......
Reply #37 - 12/03/19 at 13:02:41
 
Capitalism has been the single greatest driving force in upgrading the standard of living across the globe.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #38 - 12/03/19 at 14:01:14
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 13:02:41:
Capitalism has been the single greatest driving force in upgrading the standard of living across the globe.


No, it really hasn't.

It's made the rich richer and the poor, poorer.

When profit is all you focus on, profit is all you'll get.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #39 - 12/03/19 at 14:03:53
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 13:02:41:
Capitalism has been the single greatest driving force in upgrading the standard of living across the globe.


Maybe so; while there's a lot to be said for literacy, moving from serfdom and indentured servitude to willing exchange has been incontestably transformative.   However, Laissez-Faire Capitalism has proved a bit of a circle, leading us back to servitude, a defacto landed-class of royalty, and environmental catastrophe.   Moderation, abjuring totality, judicious application of diverse principles is the best way forward.

Many of the Democrat candidates for President favor a blend of values and pragmatic reflection no longer offered by the GOP brand.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #40 - 12/03/19 at 14:07:19
 
It's made the rich richer and the poor, poorer.

That is demonstratively not even remotely true.

Compare the nations of Africa against any nation currently utilizing even a rudimentary form of a capitalist system.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #41 - 12/03/19 at 14:20:40
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:07:19:
It's made the rich richer and the poor, poorer.

That is demonstratively not even remotely true.

No? "Caught between the Scylla and Charybdis" is a pretty apt take.

Inequality has increased anywhere in the world despite substantial geographical differences, with the richest 1% twice as wealthy as the poorest 50%. The results of the World Inequality Report 2018.

http://www.lifegate.com/people/news/world-inequality-report-2018


Compare the nations of Africa against any nation currently utilizing even a rudimentary form of a capitalist system.


You didn't define it as rudimentary or blended.  Blended systems do indeed work.

Pure capitalism doesn't.

Be specific.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #42 - 12/03/19 at 14:22:28
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:07:19:
Compare the nations of Africa against any nation currently utilizing even a rudimentary form of a capitalist system.


Uh- wha... can somebody explain to Mark that the US is closer to some African countries on the Index of Economic Freedom than it is to the top of the list?   Oh, never mind- facts don't matter.    The great thing about being a 'Merican is you can pontificate authoritatively about stuff you know nothing much about, make proclamations without regard for... well, truth.

Truth is, many African countries utilize more than a 'rudimentary form of capitalism'.   There are plenty of examples of failure, for sure- but nuance and understanding weren't really Mark's concern.
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Re: Good morning......
Reply #43 - 12/03/19 at 16:09:51
 
I'll try to answer some of these. Return questions on some others.

Free Public college - You mean community college ? No one is actually complaining about that and we don't even ask for it to be free, though for some people it can help, the issues are they don't do 4 year, and they're generally considered as crap, mainly because some of them are - now, my town has a good one. However, the perspective of them being crap causes many to avoid it. Not me, I'm pushing my son for it. BTW this is how all colleges in India used to be, students pay for their education, pretty much out of pocket no loans, no financing, no fake fees for 1 vs another who gets all these "grants". You pay for it in full, there are more $$$ and less $ colleges, sometimes not even varying in their education quality.

Why did I immigrate here - Plain and simple, I got cheated back in 1991. I got a H1 visa to do manual factory labor, and they even shafted me on the pay. It was a year before I was able to get out from under it, by then I had a car, some debts, some assets. Essentially it was getting irreversible. I lost a lot of ground trying to get my life back on track in India, and it was a break even getting it back together in the US. However 10 yrs on I was still in a mode to return, but soon enough with the baby etc it was where I had to decide - OK screw it, I'm here.

Why is amazon paying no taxes and hoarding $$$. Yes, they're crooks, and worse yet - they are also hiring a lot of people on H1, sub contracting a lot from other crooked companies and essentially, hitting that will not only throw that $$$ back into society here, it will also prevent a lot of "remittances" that devalue our currency, and reduce the effects of their pile of cash hidden overseas. Yea tax em at 80% and kill the H1 abuse in their name. Repeat with google, apple, facebook, etc etc.

I think you're missing the ppint on all this alternative energy. All that crap will cut emissions in 30%, 50%. 90% of my energy use is driving to work and heating my house. I bring in my brother from India and automatically he uses 10-30X what he did in India. Alternative this and that needs a crap ton of innovation and scaling up and this and that. Legislation is easy and cheap, if not free. Stop people from moving here. Stop people from commuting when they don't have to. Nearly 90% of jobs can be done remote, and when that is legislated, we will see a full on unwind of the entire "commute based" sector of the economy. We need 12 gas stations at every highway exit ? not if only 10% of people are on the road. Bridges crumbling ? well let em fall, take 90% of people off the road and see if they cant find a different route. The last 5 times I went to the "teller" to draw $$$ the teller was remote. Only problem was, he had to commute because he was in Jacksonville and had to physically drive to office. He really could have done that sitting at home. Innovate and scale up to make that 10% that's left over to 1%. Yea that can take time. But 90% is available now. Rather 80%, cos I am not living without heat. But prevent people from moving to the cold countries, and you save 90%.

I dont think my view is simplistic, but this is the low hanging fruit, scrape up that and the fruit that's already fallen. Then move on to harder to reach ones.

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Re: Good morning......
Reply #44 - 12/03/19 at 16:55:37
 
Mavigogun wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:03:53:
WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 13:02:41:
Capitalism has been the single greatest driving force in upgrading the standard of living across the globe.


Maybe so; while there's a lot to be said for literacy, moving from serfdom and indentured servitude to willing exchange has been incontestably transformative.   However, Laissez-Faire Capitalism has proved a bit of a circle, leading us back to servitude, a defacto landed-class of royalty, and environmental catastrophe.   Moderation, abjuring totality, judicious application of diverse principles is the best way forward.

Many of the Democrat candidates for President favor a blend of values and pragmatic reflection no longer offered by the GOP brand.



Correct, its also lead people right back to slavery, being threatened with murder etc etc while the consumers pay more and more, for the likes of amazon and various other middle men take in the bulk of the $$$.

Broken supply chain, yea corrupt govt and this or that too, but broken supply chain - I heard that on NPR a few weeks ago, and it really struck me as being spot on. They mainly said that about chocolate, but I see parallels in any field with a ton of middlemen. Diamonds software engineers, the sex industry - That's why I say Ass to Zebra.

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