SuzukiSavage.com - Fur or babies?

MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 8997 Minn Gender:	Re: Fur or babies? Reply #90 - 05/20/19 at 12:07:26 T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 11:59:15: But to be clear - we're not talking about a baby - we're talking about a fetus. Believe everyone here knows your view, a view from someone that, Believes in, Not believing. (Well unless it is someone like C.U. or AOC)
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verslagen1

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #91 - 05/20/19 at 12:39:18

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 09:42:48:

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 09:24:22:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 09:00:41:

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 08:35:04:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 05:58:49:

WebsterMark wrote on 05/19/19 at 19:46:24:

Wow, you really hate babies don't you?

A fetus is not a baby.

Yep, he's dehumanizing the enemy to make what's deplorable acceptable.

You label me as such to make yourself feel better. Sad.

The fact is vers - most women agree with me - not you.

Where's the label?

Sorry, should have said You accuse me as such to make yourself feel better. Sad.

Better?

Myself? I'm not pregnant, nor have I dehumanized anyone. So you're the one that's sad as I don't have to rationalize a choice.

Currently pro-life/choice is 48/48%, so you might want to re-evaluate yourself. (Gallop poll)

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T And T Garage

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #92 - 05/20/19 at 12:54:46

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 12:39:18:

Myself? I'm not pregnant, nor have I dehumanized anyone. So you're the one that's sad as I don't have to rationalize a choice.

You can't dehumanize a non-human. A fetus is not a human.

Currently pro-life/choice is 48/48%, so you might want to re-evaluate yourself. (Gallop poll)

You may want to clarify that stat. Yes, that's what people give their opinion as to being pro-life or pro-choice.

But it goes much deeper than that.

As to the legality:

From Gallop-

Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances or illegal in all circumstances? (Asked of those who say abortion should be legal under certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
Combined data based on full sample
Legal under any - 29%
Legal under most - 14%
Legal only in a few - 35%
Illegal in all - 18%
No opinion - 3%

78% say it should be legal in some form or fashion.

CONTEXT.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #93 - 05/20/19 at 13:24:56

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 12:54:46:

But it goes much deeper than that.

As to the legality:

From Gallop-

Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances or illegal in all circumstances? (Asked of those who say abortion should be legal under certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
Combined data based on full sample
Legal under any - 29%
Legal under most - 14%
Legal only in a few - 35%
Illegal in all - 18%
No opinion - 3%

78% say it should be legal in some form or fashion.

CONTEXT.
[/color]

Certainly, legal in a few and not at all equate to 53% when you compare it to 48% says you ought to re-evaluate you consider CONTEXT.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #94 - 05/20/19 at 13:39:10

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:24:56:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 12:54:46:

But it goes much deeper than that.

As to the legality:

From Gallop-

Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances or illegal in all circumstances? (Asked of those who say abortion should be legal under certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
Combined data based on full sample
Legal under any - 29%
Legal under most - 14%
Legal only in a few - 35%
Illegal in all - 18%
No opinion - 3%

78% say it should be legal in some form or fashion.

CONTEXT.
[/color]

Certainly, legal in a few and not at all equate to 53% when you compare it to 48% says you ought to re-evaluate you consider CONTEXT.

LOL - wow, how clever. Maybe someday, you'll have some more originality....

But to be clear - 78% - A MAJORITY OF THOSE POLLED THINK IT SHOULD BE LEGAL.

End. Of. Story.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28760 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Fur or babies? Reply #95 - 05/20/19 at 13:44:45 How about we talk about what constitutes a living human being? Survivablility? Soul? Or to you godless horde, Consciousness? Is a polliwog a frog?
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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #96 - 05/20/19 at 13:49:37

Eegore wrote on 05/20/19 at 11:54:55:

"I've always wondered this, but what condition jeopardizes the mother's health that can only be remedied by killing the baby?"

Theres many reasons women die from childbirth. Also mortality rates have increased, and many of the reasons are unknown.

According to 9 MMRC's the primary factors known prior to birth are preeclampsia, cardiomyopathy, blood disease, potential for hemorrhage, and coronary disease.

"Overall, there were seven leading underlying causes of pregnancy-related death, accounting for 72.1% of all pregnancy-related deaths (Figure 4). In addition, there were at least 5 pregnancy-related deaths due to each of the following: amniotic fluid embolism (4.2%), homicide (3.3%), cerebrovascular accidents (2.8%), unintentional injury (2.8%), anesthesia complications (2.3%), and autoimmune diseases (2.3%). "

In the above section autoimmune diseases are typically known prior to childbirth and risk factors, when combined with consistent assessment, can be reliably calculated. Autoimmune factors should also be considered as a childbirth related mortality factor.

This covers circumstances only prior to birth and result in mortality during delivery, it doesn't include situations where both the mother and child will die. Also a number of others pregnancy related issues can kill the mother months after birth.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/maternalinfanthealth/pregnancy-mortali...

And killing the baby is the solution to these issues?

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #97 - 05/20/19 at 13:50:24

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:44:45:

How about we talk about what constitutes a living human being?
Survivablility?
Soul?
Or to you godless horde, Consciousness?

Is a polliwog a frog?

I though we covered that.....

A fetus is the term I use for the organism that cannot sustain itself outside the host's body.

It is somewhere around the beginning of the third trimester - 23 to 26 weeks that a fetus becomes viable outside the body.

After that point, there should be restrictions and considerations made of abortions.

So to recap - a fetus becomes human when it can sustain itself outside the womb.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #98 - 05/20/19 at 13:55:48

We have a rover on Mars digging up the soil looking for signs of life.

Imagine it were to uncover the product of a male sperm and female egg, moments after conception. Imagine the machine had the capabilities to analyze it.

Once the data was received on earth, what would we do? We'd say we found life on Mars. What kind of life? A dog, a monkey, a fish? No, we found human life.

But here on Earth, that same data is called something else to justify killing it.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #99 - 05/20/19 at 14:03:15

WebsterMark wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:49:37:

Eegore wrote on 05/20/19 at 11:54:55:

"I've always wondered this, but what condition jeopardizes the mother's health that can only be remedied by killing the baby?"

Theres many reasons women die from childbirth. Also mortality rates have increased, and many of the reasons are unknown.

According to 9 MMRC's the primary factors known prior to birth are preeclampsia, cardiomyopathy, blood disease, potential for hemorrhage, and coronary disease.

"Overall, there were seven leading underlying causes of pregnancy-related death, accounting for 72.1% of all pregnancy-related deaths (Figure 4). In addition, there were at least 5 pregnancy-related deaths due to each of the following: amniotic fluid embolism (4.2%), homicide (3.3%), cerebrovascular accidents (2.8%), unintentional injury (2.8%), anesthesia complications (2.3%), and autoimmune diseases (2.3%). "

In the above section autoimmune diseases are typically known prior to childbirth and risk factors, when combined with consistent assessment, can be reliably calculated. Autoimmune factors should also be considered as a childbirth related mortality factor.

This covers circumstances only prior to birth and result in mortality during delivery, it doesn't include situations where both the mother and child will die. Also a number of others pregnancy related issues can kill the mother months after birth.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/maternalinfanthealth/pregnancy-mortali...

And killing the baby is the solution to these issues?

LOL - "killing babies" - yet another conservative, fear mongering tactic.

You can't kill a baby if there is no baby.

There's a reason it's called a fetus and not a baby.

These sorts of tactics that you use, have actually led to a doctor's death. The moron that is bill o'reily constantly referred to Dr. George Tiller as a "baby killer" on his program.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/bill-oreillys-dangerou...

So let's set it straight. A fetus is not a baby.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #100 - 05/20/19 at 14:05:53

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:50:24:

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:44:45:

How about we talk about what constitutes a living human being?
Survivablility?
Soul?
Or to you godless horde, Consciousness?

Is a polliwog a frog?

I though we covered that.....

A fetus is the term I use for the organism that cannot sustain itself outside the host's body.

It is somewhere around the beginning of the third trimester - 23 to 26 weeks that a fetus becomes viable outside the body.

After that point, there should be restrictions and considerations made of abortions.

So to recap - a fetus becomes human when it can sustain itself outside the womb.

I see, you're not capable of higher thought, just regurgitation.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #101 - 05/20/19 at 14:05:56

WebsterMark wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:55:48:

We have a rover on Mars digging up the soil looking for signs of life.

Imagine it were to uncover the product of a male sperm and female egg, moments after conception. Imagine the machine had the capabilities to analyze it.

Once the data was received on earth, what would we do? We'd say we found life on Mars. What kind of life? A dog, a monkey, a fish? No, we found human life.

And religion would be upended.... how about that? The moral compass of everyone religious would be flawed....

But here on Earth, that same data is called something else to justify killing it.

A fetus is little more than a parasite.... until it's viable on its own.

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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #102 - 05/20/19 at 14:08:21

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 14:05:53:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:50:24:

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 13:44:45:

How about we talk about what constitutes a living human being?
Survivablility?
Soul?
Or to you godless horde, Consciousness?

Is a polliwog a frog?

I though we covered that.....

A fetus is the term I use for the organism that cannot sustain itself outside the host's body.

It is somewhere around the beginning of the third trimester - 23 to 26 weeks that a fetus becomes viable outside the body.

After that point, there should be restrictions and considerations made of abortions.

So to recap - a fetus becomes human when it can sustain itself outside the womb.

I see, you're not capable of higher thought, just regurgitation.

What more would you like - a dissertation? I've posted my thoughts. They're well thought out and pretty easy to follow.

You don't like it? I really don't care.

I support a woman's right to choose. Period.

I think that life begins when a fetus is viable outside the womb. Period.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28760 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Fur or babies? Reply #103 - 05/20/19 at 14:10:21 a chicken lays an egg, is that viable?
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Re: Fur or babies?
Reply #104 - 05/20/19 at 14:27:29

verslagen1 wrote on 05/20/19 at 14:10:21:

a chicken lays an egg, is that viable?

If it's been fertilized, possibly. But it must be kept warm and sheltered or it will not hatch. But we're not talking about a food-stock animal, are we?

If a woman is pregnant but does not know it - say 2 or 3 months along - and she goes skiing and has a bad fall that causes a miscarriage - is that murder? Better yet, what if she's a heavy drinker and smoker... is that murder - even if she doesn't know she's pregnant?

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