"And killing the baby is the solution to these issues?"


 I'm not going to break it down to survivability rates by procedure and compromising medical issue since people won't even read references here.

 Read the reference I provided, there's hundreds of thousands of examples, look through the AAST data tables and come up with your own answer.

 The variables are considerable, but yes the process of childbirth kills mothers, this has been known for over a century.

This has gone where all abortion discussions ultimately go:  the pro-death side simply changes the definition of words so they don't have to admit what they know deep down; abortion kills a human being.

I wish one of them would have the balls to admit it. You're giving permission to a woman to end the human life growing within her for her convenience. At least be honest. Stop making $hit up like a woman's right or war on woman or other such nonsense. You're taking away the future of one human being and every interaction they'll ever have.

Abortion is THE litmus test. If you've looked closely and seriously into the issue and still call yourself pro choice, there's something seriously out of kilter with you.

WebsterMark wrote on 05/21/19 at 04:58:20:


The fact is this - a fetus is not a baby.  

Further, although you don't want to admit it, this isn't about abortion.  It never has been.  It's about a woman's right to choose.  If you take away that right, what's next?  Will it be illegal for a woman to smoke or drink during the pregnancy?  Will she be restricted from any activity that could endanger the fetus?  Where does it end?

Also, all the pro-lifers seem to forget one huge thing.  The man responsible for the pregnancy.  100% of all pregnancies are caused by men.  Yet they bear none of the responsibility in carrying a fetus to term or childbirth.  How is it that they are in charge of deciding what's best for a woman?

To expound on that, many pro-lifers that I've talked to are in favor of the death penalty.  Hypocrisy anyone?

So why don't they all stop making this what it's not - it's not killing someone, because a fetus that is not viable outside the womb is not a person/baby/child.  It's just not.  It's more akin to a parasite.

Yeah, I'm dehumanizing it - because it's not human.

The fact is this - a fetus is not a baby.  Yes, it is. It is a human being. As I said before, in any other environment, it is a human being. The only exception being in those cases where someone wants to kill it so it is renamed to something else.

Further, although you don't want to admit it, this isn't about abortion.  It never has been.  It's about a woman's right to choose.  If you take away that right, what's next?  Will it be illegal for a woman to smoke or drink during the pregnancy?  Will she be restricted from any activity that could endanger the fetus?  Where does it end? It ends where logic begins. a woman who is pregnant has a responsibility to that child inside her.  In fact, a woman can be prosecuted for giving birth to a drug addicted child. And a woman's right to choose what? To kill another human being for her convenience.

Also, all the pro-lifers seem to forget one huge thing.  The man responsible for the pregnancy. 100% of all pregnancies are caused by men.  Yet they bear none of the responsibility in carrying a fetus to term or childbirth.  How is it that they are in charge of deciding what's best for a woman? Mind numbing stupid argument. So decisions can only be made by those who bear the responsibility for the result of those decisions? Fine, you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. See how stupid that is?

To expound on that, many pro-lifers that I've talked to are in favor of the death penalty.  Hypocrisy anyone? Again, simplistic and weak argument. But doesn't apply to me as I'm against the death penalty.

So why don't they all stop making this what it's not - it's not killing someone, because a fetus that is not viable outside the womb is not a person/baby/child.  It's just not.  It's more akin to a parasite.

Again with the parasite. You try to pass yourself off as a morally bankrupt person, but I don't believe even you, in your heart of hearts, have sunk to that depth. I refuse to believe there are that many awful people in the world. For you, this is a political argument. Its another separation between left and right, democrats and republicans. you are using someone whose willing to kill their child as another weapon in your war. 
Yeah, I'm dehumanizing it - because it's not human.

You try to pass yourself off as a morally bankrupt person, but I don't believe even you, in your heart of hearts, have sunk to that depth. I refuse to believe there are that many awful people in the world.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong.........

Yes. After the time at which the baby can live outside the womb, under what condition is it necessary to kill the baby to protect the mother's health?

Forcing women to carry to term is imposing one's religious beliefs on another person's body.
The church had a much different view in pre-Victorian times, even though most people were much more devout.
Even the Puritans accepted abortion up to the point of the "quickening",... which is when the fetus begins to kick. (around 20 weeks)
How have people in modern times become more puritanical than Puritans?...