SuzukiSavage.com - The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control

LostArtist

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #15 - 10/15/18 at 12:29:02

WebsterMark wrote on 10/15/18 at 11:45:08:

The poorest counties in Missouri have an extremely high gun ownership rate, yet have very low gun crime rates.

isn't that the theory, if criminals know that people are likely to be carrying that they won't commit homicide? armed gangbangers shooting other armed gangbangers seems to disprove that theory huh?

No. That's what you would refer to as willing combatants! Both are criminals. Both are They are aware the other is likely armed. I'm sure that does in fact stop fights from time to time. The issue you are talking about is when an armed criminal is counting on his victim to NOT be armed. If there's a possibility a potential victim is armed, they are likely to look for another target.

then why in a heavily armed city like St. Louis, is there any crime?? you said it, it has 2 MILLION guns for it's 3.5 million citizens, that means that, either there's a huge hoarding problem among gun owners (and yes, there is) even so, it looks like at least HALF the citizens in St. Louis are armed, a 50/50 chance isn't enough of a deterrent?

so, subtract the "armed combatants" from your criminal stats and see what you get

but you're probably one of those people that think that the only real way to have a civil society is having everyone armed.... smh

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MShipley

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #16 - 10/15/18 at 12:46:50

The big issue that the anti-gun people never understand is that by passing laws all you do is prevent the law abiding from having the ability to defend themselves.. Why they have this ludicrous notion that the bad guys are going to get rid of their weapons because they are illegal is an insane thought.

Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world.

Stop going after the guns and actually arrest the bad guys. We used to have a great law in Virginia. It stated that if you use a weapon in a crime you automatically get 5 years, or have 5 years added to your sentence. Of course that was considered to be unfair to the criminal. (poor criminals, makes me so sad they have to go to jail)

Punish those that misuse the guns not those that are responsible with them.

But then there is progressiveism (and you all know how I feel about that). It of course destroys all logic and now in the US it is the Honest gun owner that is a problem NOT the criminal that uses the gun.

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WebsterMark

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #17 - 10/15/18 at 12:50:04

then why in a heavily armed city like St. Louis, is there any crime??
I think I just gave my explanation for that. And you know the answer to that.

so, subtract the "armed combatants" from your criminal stats and see what you get
A very low murder / gun crime rate.

but you're probably one of those people that think that the only real way to have a civil society is having everyone armed....

No, that would be stupid.

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WebsterMark

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #18 - 10/15/18 at 12:53:13

Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world.

Because it's the issue they want. If they faced crime on a daily basis and the police were unable to maintain control in the suburban neighborhoods they live in, then they wouldn't feel the same. Sew, TT, Lost etc… don’t live in areas where they are high targets for crime every single day.
One of the best sayings ever is a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged.

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #19 - 10/15/18 at 13:00:46

LostArtist wrote on 10/15/18 at 12:29:02:

but you're probably one of those people that think that the only real way to have a civil society is having everyone armed....

Lost,
Here is something that will help you understand.

Make up a Nice sign, saying:
“No Guns In This House”
Put it in your front yard.

Then get back to us.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
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T And T Garage

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #20 - 10/15/18 at 13:02:15

MShipley wrote on 10/15/18 at 12:46:50:

The big issue that the anti-gun people never understand is that by passing laws all you do is prevent the law abiding from having the ability to defend themselves.. Why they have this ludicrous notion that the bad guys are going to get rid of their weapons because they are illegal is an insane thought.

None of us "lefties" on here wants to ban guns. None. There are over 300 million gins in the USA, to try and ban them would be laughable.

It seems you righties like to push that idea time and time again and it's simply not true.

It's about stricter FEDERAL control. As it is now, the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face.

Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world.

Again, no one is saying that there's not - and we all know that laws don't mean a thing to a lawless person. But, if you can limit their tools, it would help.

Stop going after the guns and actually arrest the bad guys. We used to have a great law in Virginia. It stated that if you use a weapon in a crime you automatically get 5 years, or have 5 years added to your sentence. Of course that was considered to be unfair to the criminal. (poor criminals, makes me so sad they have to go to jail)

Not really m - the problem with that law was that it was rife with unjust arrests and prosecutions.

Punish those that misuse the guns not those that are responsible with them.

I agree 100%. Restrictions are not punishments.

But then there is progressiveism (and you all know how I feel about that). It of course destroys all logic and now in the US it is the Honest gun owner that is a problem NOT the criminal that uses the gun.

Really m? Do you own a gun? Are you criminalized? Are you being hunt down? How many times has there been a call to ban on guns in this country? How many times was it successful? Remember how all you guys said Obama was going to take your guns? LOL

From my previous post:

Should we allow all firearms? All types of weapons? No restrictions? No registrations? No permits? No background checks? No criminal limitations?

The Second doesn't mention any of those things either.... how about that?

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #21 - 10/15/18 at 13:05:57

WebsterMark wrote on 10/15/18 at 12:53:13:

Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world.

Because it's the issue they want. If they faced crime on a daily basis and the police were unable to maintain control in the suburban neighborhoods they live in, then they wouldn't feel the same. Sew, TT, Lost etc… don’t live in areas where they are high targets for crime every single day.

LOL - once again mark, you know nothing of where I do (or have) lived. Don't be too sure of yourself.

One of the best sayings ever is a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged.

Hmmm.. well, again, you don't know me. I have personal experience being mugged - more than once, and in completely different neighborhoods. Not to worry, I'll never be a conservative. Life's too sort to be paranoid all the time.

Further, who said I don't own my own gun?

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #22 - 10/15/18 at 13:17:21

T And T Garage wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:02:15:

the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face.

WHAT ?
One side of you mouth you say it's someone else's fault.
Then the other side of your mouth you say it's, Chiagio's fault.
So which side of your mouth are you talking out of now, when you say it's someones fault, again !

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 9000 Minn Gender:	Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Reply #23 - 10/15/18 at 13:23:03 T And T Garage wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:05:57: Further, who said I don't own my own gun? Really ? So you are implying, that, because you own a gun, everything is alright ! Yet, you, want to restrict, my gun ownership !
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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #24 - 10/15/18 at 13:27:10

MnSpring wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:17:21:

T And T Garage wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:02:15:

the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face.

WHAT ?
One side of you mouth you say it's someone else's fault.
Then the other side of your mouth you say it's, Chiagio's fault.
So which side of your mouth are you talking out of now, when you say it's someones fault, again !

Oh mn, seems you never listen or pay any attention. In other posts, I've said that the gun violence in Illinois (especially in Chicago) is no one's fault but ours.

But the restrictions that are in place in Illinois gun laws are rendered moot by our neighbors on all sides.

Given the fact that in Chicago, you are literally 1 hour south and 30 minutes east of the least restricted states when it comes to firearm ownership.

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #25 - 10/15/18 at 13:30:21

MnSpring wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:23:03:

T And T Garage wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:05:57:

Further, who said I don't own my own gun?

Really ?
So you are implying, that, because you own a gun, everything is alright !
Yet, you, want to restrict, my gun ownership !

Not at all. In fact, you're the one implying that.

The only way I'd want to restrict your gun ownership is if you were a threat to others or yourself - if you had tendency for violence and were convicted of a felony involving a gun. If you were found to be mentally unstable, then yes, I would want to restrict your gun ownership.

Are you any of those things mn?

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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #26 - 10/15/18 at 13:36:20

It's about stricter FEDERAL control. As it is now, the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face.

So a gang banger who is going to break the law by buying a gun in the city limits of Chicago is going to be afraid to cross into Indiana to buy a gun because of a different law? Isn't this stores with those signs on doors that say no weapons allowed getting robbed?

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12850 Gender:	Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Reply #27 - 10/15/18 at 13:38:39 Hmmm.. well, again, you don't know me. I have personal experience being mugged - more than once, and in completely different neighborhoods Christine Blasey Ford School of Truth..... You're going to have to prove that.
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MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 9000 Minn Gender:	Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Reply #28 - 10/15/18 at 13:40:12 T And T Garage wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:27:10: Illinois gun laws are rendered moot by our neighbors on all sides. I see, a new, 'SPIN', on. 'It's Someone Else's Fault'
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Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control
Reply #29 - 10/15/18 at 13:41:10

WebsterMark wrote on 10/15/18 at 13:36:20:

It's about stricter FEDERAL control. As it is now, the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face.

So a gang banger who is going to break the law by buying a gun in the city limits of Chicago is going to be afraid to cross into Indiana to buy a gun because of a different law?

Not sure how you got there, but no, that's not my point.

My point is, is all states were under a more strict federal regulation, then it wouldn't be a quick drive to Wisconsin or Indiana to get what they need.

A law isn't going to stop someone from breaking it. However, if we can restrict their tools, so much the better.

Isn't this stores with those signs on doors that say no weapons allowed getting robbed?

No not at all. See above.

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