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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1539356365 Message started by LostArtist on 10/12/18 at 07:59:25 |
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Title: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by LostArtist on 10/12/18 at 07:59:25 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vggYGQyVaCo[/media] |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/12/18 at 10:23:51 Well he Lies, does NOT, Communicate all the FACTS. And ’spins’, the few things that are true. It is JUST, what the, ‘Gun Banners’, want to hear. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by thumperclone on 10/12/18 at 15:44:40 50734E6D6F74737A1D0 wrote:
tell us what are "all the facts" please |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by LostArtist on 10/12/18 at 16:29:05 514D504855405746494A4B40250 wrote:
tell us what are "all the facts" please [/quote] There could be some argument over what the founding fathers actually meant, but I think his conclusions are fairly reasonable and it's only a 20 minute video, so yeah, not All the facts are in it, but it is a reasonable approach to the issue |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/18 at 23:04:50 The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It's not about hunting. It's about removing a tyrannical government from power. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/14/18 at 07:44:15 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
All arms? All types of weapons? No restrictions? No registrations? No permits? No background checks? No criminal limitations? The Second doesn't mention any of those things either.... how about that? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by mpescatori on 10/14/18 at 10:53:57 From one who studied in the US and returned to study more in Europe... The 2nd Amendment was written in those days in that perspective and to fulfil those requirements. Everybody - settlers, farmers, trappers and military - had more or less the same gun - a black powder muzzleloader (this goes for Europe, too). In those days, "assault weapon" was a pike or a bayonet (this goes for Europe, too). In those days, nobody in his right mind would raise his children to become pot-smoking retards (this goes for Europe, too). So, YES, the 2nd Amendment was written and approved for the very purpose of making sure no tyrannical government would strip the People of its rights. No European ruler nor "democratic government" ever approved such an Amendment in Europe - just to show you how good you've got it. Which makes you think... WTF is a "gun-free zone" :-? Would it equate to "criminal gang supermarket" ? Think about it... |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/18 at 13:15:12 Did I mention I missed you? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/14/18 at 15:05:42 3428352D302532232C2F2E25400 wrote:
Truly UN-fortunate, you never read the information posted, many times, by many people. Guess you will have to actualy look it up and study the 'Truth'. Not listen to just what the he/she called tt says. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by mpescatori on 10/15/18 at 04:19:41 77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:
Missed you too, honey... :-* ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm ba-a-a-ck ! :D |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 05:15:30 So, YES, the 2nd Amendment was written and approved for the very purpose of making sure no tyrannical government would strip the People of its rights. No European ruler nor "democratic government" ever approved such an Amendment in Europe - just to show you how good you've got it. That's a bingo! There is no debate onthe original intent of the 2nd. Read the Federalist Papers written during the same period mostly by the same people. Our issue today is we're too cowardly to address the reasons for gun crime in inner city neighborhoods. So when a white suburban mentally deranged shooter kills people, leftist jump on that because its easy. Limit the gun rights of all the people who do none of the damage.... My city, St Louis, was number 1 or 2 in murders last year. 212 I think was the number. The vast, vast majority all clustered in a few zip codes. There are 3.5 million people in St Louis metro which means probably 2 million guns or more in that same area. Yet because 200 used them in a crime, we're going to add restrictions on the rest?! Extrapolate that across the country. Ok, lets do that to illegal immigrants. If I can document a small fraction of them are criminals, using the logic of gun control, are you okay with deporting all of them? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by LostArtist on 10/15/18 at 11:10:47 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
this video, nor the popular interpretation of the 2nd amendment up until the 2010 heller SC decision dispute that, that's why MILITIAS are important and mentioned by the founding fathers in the first part of the 2nd amendment you chose to leave off to spin your argument, even though it's where your argument ACTUALLY IS WRITTEN into the amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by LostArtist on 10/15/18 at 11:24:28 5C6E69787F6E79466A79600B0 wrote:
and I bet you there's rampant access to guns there all over the place isn't there? I bet a lot of the times, the victim was armed as well. so, why isn't it safe there? everyone is freaking armed, there is plenty of out in the open visual evidence that people are armed, since people are getting shot all the time, hell, should be the safest neighborhood ever, isn't that the theory, if criminals know that people are likely to be carrying that they won't commit homicide? armed gangbangers shooting other armed gangbangers seems to disprove that theory huh? oh, and your President and his supporters like Ann Coulter have used that logic on immigrants, hence the Build a WAlLL and getting rid of Chain migration and the other reforms the Republicans want to make on our immigration system |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 11:45:08 The poorest counties in Missouri have an extremely high gun ownership rate, yet have very low gun crime rates. isn't that the theory, if criminals know that people are likely to be carrying that they won't commit homicide? armed gangbangers shooting other armed gangbangers seems to disprove that theory huh? No. That's what you would refer to as willing combatants! Both are criminals. Both are They are aware the other is likely armed. I'm sure that does in fact stop fights from time to time. The issue you are talking about is when an armed criminal is counting on his victim to NOT be armed. If there's a possibility a potential victim is armed, they are likely to look for another target. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 11:49:45 1F2D2A3B3C2D3A05293A23480 wrote:
See Also: Brasil. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by LostArtist on 10/15/18 at 12:29:02 5E6C6B7A7D6C7B44687B62090 wrote:
then why in a heavily armed city like St. Louis, is there any crime?? you said it, it has 2 MILLION guns for it's 3.5 million citizens, that means that, either there's a huge hoarding problem among gun owners (and yes, there is) even so, it looks like at least HALF the citizens in St. Louis are armed, a 50/50 chance isn't enough of a deterrent? so, subtract the "armed combatants" from your criminal stats and see what you get but you're probably one of those people that think that the only real way to have a civil society is having everyone armed.... smh |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MShipley on 10/15/18 at 12:46:50 The big issue that the anti-gun people never understand is that by passing laws all you do is prevent the law abiding from having the ability to defend themselves.. Why they have this ludicrous notion that the bad guys are going to get rid of their weapons because they are illegal is an insane thought. Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world. Stop going after the guns and actually arrest the bad guys. We used to have a great law in Virginia. It stated that if you use a weapon in a crime you automatically get 5 years, or have 5 years added to your sentence. Of course that was considered to be unfair to the criminal. (poor criminals, makes me so sad they have to go to jail) Punish those that misuse the guns not those that are responsible with them. But then there is progressiveism (and you all know how I feel about that). It of course destroys all logic and now in the US it is the Honest gun owner that is a problem NOT the criminal that uses the gun. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 12:50:04 then why in a heavily armed city like St. Louis, is there any crime?? I think I just gave my explanation for that. And you know the answer to that. so, subtract the "armed combatants" from your criminal stats and see what you get A very low murder / gun crime rate. but you're probably one of those people that think that the only real way to have a civil society is having everyone armed.... No, that would be stupid. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 12:53:13 Why is it so hard for some people to understand and except that there are bad people in this world. Because it's the issue they want. If they faced crime on a daily basis and the police were unable to maintain control in the suburban neighborhoods they live in, then they wouldn't feel the same. Sew, TT, Lost etc… don’t live in areas where they are high targets for crime every single day. One of the best sayings ever is a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 13:00:46 694A56516457514C5651250 wrote:
Lost, Here is something that will help you understand. Make up a Nice sign, saying: “No Guns In This House” Put it in your front yard. Then get back to us. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:02:15 574972736A767F631A0 wrote:
Really m? Do you own a gun? Are you criminalized? Are you being hunt down? How many times has there been a call to ban on guns in this country? How many times was it successful? Remember how all you guys said Obama was going to take your guns? LOL From my previous post: Should we allow all firearms? All types of weapons? No restrictions? No registrations? No permits? No background checks? No criminal limitations? The Second doesn't mention any of those things either.... how about that? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:05:57 1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote:
Hmmm.. well, again, you don't know me. I have personal experience being mugged - more than once, and in completely different neighborhoods. Not to worry, I'll never be a conservative. Life's too sort to be paranoid all the time. Further, who said I don't own my own gun? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 13:17:21 6A747B7A776A716C1E0 wrote:
WHAT ? One side of you mouth you say it's someone else's fault. Then the other side of your mouth you say it's, Chiagio's fault. So which side of your mouth are you talking out of now, when you say it's someones fault, again ! |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 13:23:03 687679787568736E1C0 wrote:
Really ? So you are implying, that, because you own a gun, everything is alright ! Yet, you, want to restrict, my gun ownership ! |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:27:10 00231E3D3F24232A4D0 wrote:
WHAT ? One side of you mouth you say it's someone else's fault. Then the other side of your mouth you say it's, Chiagio's fault. So which side of your mouth are you talking out of now, when you say it's someones fault, again ! [/quote] Oh mn, seems you never listen or pay any attention. In other posts, I've said that the gun violence in Illinois (especially in Chicago) is no one's fault but ours. But the restrictions that are in place in Illinois gun laws are rendered moot by our neighbors on all sides. Given the fact that in Chicago, you are literally 1 hour south and 30 minutes east of the least restricted states when it comes to firearm ownership. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:30:21 684B7655574C4B42250 wrote:
Really ? So you are implying, that, because you own a gun, everything is alright ! Yet, you, want to restrict, my gun ownership ! [/quote] Not at all. In fact, you're the one implying that. The only way I'd want to restrict your gun ownership is if you were a threat to others or yourself - if you had tendency for violence and were convicted of a felony involving a gun. If you were found to be mentally unstable, then yes, I would want to restrict your gun ownership. Are you any of those things mn? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 13:36:20 It's about stricter FEDERAL control. As it is now, the gun law of Illinois are basically meaningless because you can go to any of our neighboring states and pretty much get a gun if you have a face. So a gang banger who is going to break the law by buying a gun in the city limits of Chicago is going to be afraid to cross into Indiana to buy a gun because of a different law? Isn't this stores with those signs on doors that say no weapons allowed getting robbed? |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by WebsterMark on 10/15/18 at 13:38:39 Hmmm.. well, again, you don't know me. I have personal experience being mugged - more than once, and in completely different neighborhoods Christine Blasey Ford School of Truth..... You're going to have to prove that. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 13:40:12 160807060B160D10620 wrote:
I see, a new, 'SPIN', on. 'It's Someone Else's Fault' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:41:10 5F6D6A7B7C6D7A45697A63080 wrote:
No not at all. See above. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:42:15 15360B282A31363F580 wrote:
I see, a new, 'SPIN', on. 'It's Someone Else's Fault' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D[/quote] Once again, you refuse to read. Not my fault if you don't. I can't teach those who refuse to learn. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 13:50:15 2B353A3B362B302D5F0 wrote:
Well then, perhaps get in touch with lost, then the two of you can get a deal on the: 'No Guns In Here' signs. To put in front of your houses. Don't forget, Ya-All get back to us with the results now. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 13:56:59 486B5675776C6B62050 wrote:
Well then, perhaps get in touch with lost, then the two of you can get a deal on the: 'No Guns In Here' signs. To put in front of your houses. Don't forget, Ya-All get back to us with the results now. [/quote] Oh, sorry mn. I actually can't put that sign up on my house, that would be lying. Sad that you just refuse to learn the basics of context. But you do serve/represent your fellow conservatives on here well. I can tell that they're proud to have you on their side! :D |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 14:05:09 352B242528352E33410 wrote:
Well, gee, get rid of it. Their is NO reason for you to have one. Than you can, 'practice' what you, 'preach'. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 14:40:11 7E5D6043415A5D54330 wrote:
Well, gee, get rid of it. Their is NO reason for you to have one. Than you can, 'practice' what you, 'preach'. [/quote] I never once said there was no reason to have one. I've said over and over that restrictions need to be put in place to limit the access to people who shouldn't own guns. It's a sad day for you when you learn that I support the Second Amendment. But it's clear that 229 years later, there needs to be different considerations made. Well, it's clear to me and most every other rational person in the US. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by MnSpring on 10/15/18 at 15:59:46 564847464B564D50220 wrote:
Ya have done a great job of convincing EVERYONE, that you don't ! But it's clear that 229 years later, there needs to be different considerations made. Exactly what part of: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." do you NOT understand ? Apparently, you are ignorant of all the laws on the books, which, ALSO, affect all those others places, you blame, for Chicago’s problems. AND, it is ultimately clear, you don’t understand, BANNING, guns from Honest Citizens, does NOT stop the dishonest gang banger, from getting/using a gun. Must be, ’those other State’s fault’, that a, "Chicago-area woman arrested last year for her role in illegally selling guns to prohibited buyers, some with gang affiliations.” Certainly could not be any fault of the City. And, because it must be, ’those other State’s fault’, that is why, “Straw purchaser with 4 felony gun charges will not get jail time” https://www.guns.com/2017/04/17/straw-purchaser-with-4-felony-gun-charges-will-not-get-jail-time/ (OH, Where/how did she buy those guns ? With a IL issued FOID card ?) Let’s see tt, walk into a bank, with your hand in your pocket, pointer finger pushing the fabric, show the teller, and say, ’this is a stick up’. Then a min later say, ’Never Mind’, and walk out. What do you think will happen ? Yet in 2010, 80,000 people were refused firearm purchase, and (because of all the things, ‘you say’), which have been IN PLACE since 1993, only 44 were prosecuted. (Rated, ‘Mostly True’ by the UL’s Favorite, fact checker. and it was, ‘mostly’, because the original report said 2012, not 2010) https://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2013/mar/22/kelly-ayotte/most-people-trying-buy-gun-illegally-us-senator-ke/ But wait, tt says MORE LAWS, restricting the Honest Citizen are needed. Perhaps, the UL Progressive, Fairy Dust Sprinkling, Kum-By-You singing Snowflakes, should say. ‘Enforce what is on the books now’. Naa, Just cry about something you know nothing about, and ‘make more laws’, just as the, ‘gun grabbers’ say you should. |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/15/18 at 18:17:22 0E2D1033312A2D24430 wrote:
Ya have done a great job of convincing EVERYONE, that you don't ! But it's clear that 229 years later, there needs to be different considerations made. Exactly what part of: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." do you NOT understand ? I understand every word mn. But you tell me - should we have any restrictions? Should we let a 12 year old carry a loaded double barrel shotgun to class? How about a 16 year old with hand grenades - cool? Apparently, you are ignorant of all the laws on the books, which, ALSO, affect all those others places, you blame, for Chicago’s problems. You just can't be taught - not my fault. AND, it is ultimately clear, you don’t understand, BANNING, guns from Honest Citizens, does NOT stop the dishonest gang banger, from getting/using a gun. No, in fact, I understand that very well. Which is why I have NEVER said that guns should be banned. If you're accusing me of saying that, show me proof. Must be, ’those other State’s fault’, that a, "Chicago-area woman arrested last year for her role in illegally selling guns to prohibited buyers, some with gang affiliations.” Certainly could not be any fault of the City. And, because it must be, ’those other State’s fault’, that is why, “Straw purchaser with 4 felony gun charges will not get jail time” https://www.guns.com/2017/04/17/straw-purchaser-with-4-felony-gun-charges-will-not-get-jail-time/ (OH, Where/how did she buy those guns ? With a IL issued FOID card ?) Let’s see tt, walk into a bank, with your hand in your pocket, pointer finger pushing the fabric, show the teller, and say, ’this is a stick up’. Then a min later say, ’Never Mind’, and walk out. What do you think will happen ? WTH does that have to do with anything we're talking about here? Yet in 2010, 80,000 people were refused firearm purchase, and (because of all the things, ‘you say’), which have been IN PLACE since 1993, only 44 were prosecuted. (Rated, ‘Mostly True’ by the UL’s Favorite, fact checker. and it was, ‘mostly’, because the original report said 2012, not 2010) https://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2013/mar/22/kelly-ayotte/most-people-trying-buy-gun-illegally-us-senator-ke/ But wait, tt says MORE LAWS, restricting the Honest Citizen are needed. Perhaps, the UL Progressive, Fairy Dust Sprinkling, Kum-By-You singing Snowflakes, should say. ‘Enforce what is on the books now’. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously? I realize you're trying to be "cute", but you make yourself look like an idiot. How many ties do I have to say it - I'm saying that FEDERAL LAWS should be more strict. What part of that do you not understand? Naa, Just cry about something you know nothing about, and ‘make more laws’, just as the, ‘gun grabbers’ say you should. [/quote] LOL - you accuse me of not knowing anything about Second Amendment rights and gun ownership, yet in every single way I do. I'm a gun owner and I support the Second Amendment. Whereas you can barely hold a conversation without using bold faces, gigantic font sizes and other bizarre things... seriously, the other conservatives on here must love that you represent them... |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by mpescatori on 10/16/18 at 01:59:18 http://media2.giphy.com/media/vjwACwDxB0hZ6/200.webp?cid=3640f6095bc5a8444f67575351bf1f41 |
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Title: Re: The Complete Moderate's Guide to Gun Control Post by T And T Garage on 10/16/18 at 06:27:47 54495C4A5A584D564B50390 wrote:
LOL - nice one! |
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