Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 
Send Topic Print
Big Bore Bobber Build (Read 3221 times)
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17826
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #240 - 03/08/18 at 07:02:36
 
I wonder what caused the original piston/bore failure...could it have been related to a fuel/air mixture issue?

Was the stock air filter and air box already gone before you started the bike rescue/rebuild?

I really can't explain all your problems - the stock muffler is restrictive....but not so much that it should make the bike run so poorly or require such big jets.  Same for the air filter......it doesn't make sense that it is causing such a problem.  The replacement of the stock piston with a higher compression Wiseco and/or the increase from 94mm to 95mm really doesn't upset the jetting much at all.......the additional airflow through the carb isn't very significant - and it doesn't require drastic changes in carb jetting.

I would suggest you go to a setup that we know works - the stock airbox with a paper filter.....and DYNA muffler - and since you are so close to sea level a #152.5 main, #52.5 pilot and 2 washers on the needle.  If that doesn't allow the bike to run well - you have something else wrong (cam timing, leaky valve, air leak, fuel flow, etc).

Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #241 - 03/08/18 at 18:54:56
 
But it is running well...
I just mimicked the available surface area of a stock air filter.
I would like it to have a little more before it flattens out in 3rd and 4th but otherwise it is running great. I have no interest on putting the stock airbox back on it at this point. I will take a video and post the link tomorrow of how it's acting now.

The original failure is still undetermined.  No one has been able to explain the rat chewed looking edge of the top of the piston, and there were no correlating marks in the bore. The piston had locked on all 4 "corners". The engine at that point was virgin. Not even the carb was touched. It had 4150 miles on it when I tore it down if I remember correctly.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #242 - 03/08/18 at 19:16:02
 
The rat chewed edge of the piston is from over heating, the top ring expands and the ends jam together ,there is no more room for the ring to expand so it pushed up until the top edge of the piston broke away. Doing 75 mph with less than 200 miles on the piston could easily have generated that level of heat. but who would do such a thing?

P.S. Shrulk is running a large air filter 155 main and no duct tape.You need a Dyna or similar muffler ,and you'll also be able to retire your duct tape.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #243 - 03/09/18 at 05:07:12
 
Batz... the first failure, not the 2nd one. The rings were securely in their grooves, none were busted or even chipped. Suzuki could not even figure our what happened to the top of the piston. I was not doing 75 when the first failure occurred.  I was closer to 85 going up hill.

The 2nd failure on the engine was already covered, gone over, scrutinized, and made right by the fellow that punched the bore. One more time... it does not matter how easy one takes it on the engine during break in if the bore is oversize. The bore was oversize.

THE BORE WAS OVERSIZE!
Period.

Heat still does not explain the damage on the original piston. It almost looks flame cut, like it was cut sloppy from stock and run anyway, and somehow made it past qc.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17826
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #244 - 03/09/18 at 05:21:51
 
I don't know what is going on with your carb/jetting etc.

My procedure for jetting a carb is to take and educated guess on where to start with jetting.  Then I start the bike up and set the idle fuel screw so the bike will run.....then go for a short ride to get the bike fully warmed.  Then I do a fine tuning on the idle fuel screw with the idle set low (around 800 rpm), as it allows the screw to be set while the slide/needle is fully closed - if you have to open the screw more than 2.5 turns the pilot jet is too small - if you can turn the screw in less than 1 turn and the engine still runs smoothly...then the jet is too big.  (I don't change the pilot jet yet as I still have to see what the main jet is doing).  Then bump the idle speed back up to 1,100 rpm.

The next step is to go for a ride and find a long steep hill, and get the bike in high gear and open the throttle wide open.....and see how it runs.  If it runs smoothly.....I then pay attention to what happens when you begin to roll off the throttle - if it seems to accelerate just slightly that means the main jet is too big....if it seems to hesitate the main jet is too small.

Then go back to the shop and let the bike cool down a bit, and then make changes to the pilot and main jet as needed.  I do something that may not seem worthwhile - but it makes me feel a lot better.  I keep increasing the size of the main jet until I reach a point where it is obvious the main is too big - then I back off one or two sizes.  When the main is too big you can hear the change in the exhaust sound as the engine will "blubber" a bit, and it doesn't pull as smoothly as it does with the smaller jets.

The last thing I do is work on the needle spacers.  With very light acceleration and a barely open throttle - the bike should accelerate smoothly.  Ride the bike as if you were in a school zone or riding with the police (or your mom) watching you.......very light throttle settings.  I start with 3 washers and if there is a hesitation/surging at light throttle settings - then I remove 1 washer and generally 2 washers will be just right.

If you have other mechanical/fuel flow/exhaust/intake issues - it may be impossible to get the jetting correct.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #245 - 03/09/18 at 08:57:11
 
The piston was probably a bad casting then ,if the silica (for hardness) is not mixed in evenly the piston could have weak spots and would mostly likely show up at the edges.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/12/18 at 05:59:50 by batman »  

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #246 - 03/09/18 at 10:46:09
 
"The best result comes when we realize that an engine is basically an air pump. Air is pumped in and out and there are problems when one side or the other is RESTRICTED. Balance and flow is our objective, unless you are NOT trying to make more horsepower! "
        You have restricted your intake to balance the flow of your restricted exhaust. Take the duct tape off your air cleaner, grab a 5/16 drill bit and go out and drill 3 to 5 more holes in the rear of your muffler test ride after each hole drilled .If that isn't better , move to a larger drill and again test ride after redrilling each hole, one at a time.When you see any improvement ,it may be time to retune the carb. It 's time you realized the full potential of your motor which should give you a top speed in the 90's , and run smooth at any rpm.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/09/18 at 20:50:10 by batman »  

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #247 - 03/24/18 at 14:40:32
 
Life/work has been pretty crazy the past couple of weeks. Went from scavenging for any work I could fine... to more work than I can handle by myself lol. I took this weekend off. My body said STOP!

Well... I just can't stop... gotta be doing something.
The Savage got some attention this morning.

Batz, I tried the suggestion of drilling another hole and checking it... but no dice. Zero effect... so I went ahead and swapped carbs.

The carb on it now makes it act completely different.
It gas a 52.5pilot and a 152.5 main. The adjustment screw block off plug is still in place.

It now happily hits 80mph.

I discovered something while deep in the guts cleaning the spare carb...
The vacuum orifice that is covered by the cover plate on the side of the carb that houses the vacuum diaphragm had a significant build up of crud that had blocked off the vacuum passage. I thoroughly cleaned it. Now my vacuum operated stock petcock is working like it is supposed to!

I will run it like this for a while and determine if it needs any more at the top end... but wow! All together a different beast. It responds smoother to throttle with more output than before. Balls for days! No rpm level off... I feel like it would keep revving until it blew apart. 70mph in 3rd gear! It is kinda windy today so I don't wanna push it too hard.  Oh.. and it is MUCH quieter with this carb on... the intake is not louder than the exhaust now!

Something gas to be jacked up or str8 up clogged in the original carb...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #248 - 03/24/18 at 21:41:48
 
Christo 13T,  the plate on the side of the carb ,with the three small screws is an enrichment valve that senses high vacuum in the intake passage down stream of the carb , and opens to add fuel to the intake track only when you close the throttle all the way to keep the motor running until it coasts down to idle or you reopen the throttle and has nothing to do with the operation of your stock petcock, nor does it open at all at steady speeds. the petcock draws it vacuum from the large passage inline with the nipple that the hose connects to at the carb  that is also down stream from the butterfly valve in the carb. 70 in third gear, really ? did you forget to shift or do you think running the bike past redline is cool?
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #249 - 03/25/18 at 06:11:20
 
It didn't feel like it was all the way wound out... I shifted up to 4th at that point. I have a video uploading. I'll post the link when it's done.
Cool had nothing to do with it... it was more of a surprise than a willful act.

An intermittent hesitation still persists. I also caught it doing this on the video. Almost flattening off during acceleration but not as stubborn about it as it was before. I think it is still a slide related symptom.

I have not removed the 100mph tape yet that is restricting airflow.
I will go ahead and pull the brass plug this morning for a little finer tuning.

The slide/diaphragm that is in it is the one that came with it... from a '96 donor. Maybe it's got some perforations I can't see? Maybe the slide is just sticking on a bur? Gonna try hitting it with a little silly cone lube spray.

Just for my own reference ...
What is the generally accepted redline? At what point do we start approaching redline in say 3rd gear? I do not want to rebuild this engine again lol.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #250 - 03/25/18 at 07:24:20
 
Redline for the motor is 6500 rpm ,you may have been at 6600 ,you wouldn't have hurt the motor but I wouldn't make it a habit. you should remove the tape from the air cleaner ,it may be causing your motor to run to rich (bog) and that may be the reason for your hesitation . I'd do that first before trying to adjust the carb. Anything you apply to the side to lube it may make things worse, you can check the bore ,but I'd just make sure it and the slide are clean.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #251 - 03/25/18 at 07:50:20
 
It wasn't the tape...
I found the problem as soon as I started removing the carb again...
3 of the 4 screws holding on the diaphragm seal plate were GONE!
I'm baffled that it made it to 80mph in that condition!

So... I went ahead and swapped the slide and diaphragm(the modified one) from the other carb into this one... and replaced the missing screws with the added protection of red lock tite...

I took it out for a test run and woundn't you know it... the hesitation has completely disappeared.

Crossed my fingers and pulled the air filter, then pulled the tape off...
reinstalled the filter and went for another quick little run around the block.

I think I just realized its potential.
Now that it can breathe, the fuel bowl is staying full, and the slide is operating on demand as it should... It almost scared me.
I goosed it a little hard pulling through the yard out to the street and broke the rear wheel loose. I fishtailed until I hit pavement. Pretty stable though! It didn't even want to try sliding out from under me.
Once I hit pavement... It was trying to lift the front wheel off the ground! Er Ma Gherd!

This is the link for the video of it yesterday...

https://youtu.be/UoSLsqIGl6E

I'm about to go take a video of how its running now...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #252 - 03/25/18 at 14:59:47
 
Here is the link for the video of it in its current condition.

https://youtu.be/IG14tFiji6w

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #253 - 03/27/18 at 13:39:20
 
I went ahead and did valve clearance check and adjusted. Also swapped the 152.5 main out for the 155... huge difference.  I ran into rain so I had to delay further testing for a bit. Weather is supposed to be cruddy for a few days...

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Christof13T
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 211
Vicoria, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #254 - 04/01/18 at 06:28:45
 
The weather has been nice the past couple of days so I have spent some more time in the saddle and have some observations.

It is now more "streetable" than it ever has been. Smooth acceleration through all the gears. Acceptable, predictable, on demand afterfiring on decel... I get one crisp afterfire snap if I let the throttle close all the way during quick shifts...  I may have to try to get a video of it vs trying to explain it.

It makes it to 80 with no problem. I suspect when I do get it out on the nicer long straight pavement I will see what it really tops out at. Might pull off the windscreen and go see what she can do today. Very little wind this morning, hope it stays that way lol.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/17/24 at 04:28:14



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Big Bore Bobber Build


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.