SuzukiSavage.com - Clutch Cable / Arm

youzguyz

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #30 - 04/12/17 at 14:13:02

You might want to refer to this parts breakdown. I believe the position of the parts is accurate:
http://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d32fb6f8700232d0b3d922/clutch

There are five of the #8 plates (these are thinner and have a smaller ID)
There is one of the #9 plate (it is thicker and has a larger ID (so the wave washer (#11) and wave washer seat (#10) can fit inside)
The wave washer goes on, with the bevel pointing IN. Then the wave washer seat goes on top of that.

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2002 - Silver (Thumper)
2000 - Green (Mad Hamish)
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut between the seat and the handlebars. Make sure yours isn't too tight or too loose.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28780 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #31 - 04/12/17 at 19:42:40 I've checked my manuals twice and now I'm dizzy. the reported error was in error.
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #32 - 04/12/17 at 20:46:37 I've found when placing the side cover back on I had to hold the arm level to insure the rod was seated properly in the depression on the arm.
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Mekh

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #33 - 04/13/17 at 04:14:00

Ok... I've spent some time on this and part of what makes it difficult to discuss is definitions of innermost/outermost and so on, so...
Innermost: towards the engine
Outermost: Away from engine
See the attached file that I made this morning for my own use from Clymers, so... not pretty

Findings so far are:
Clymers / Ron Ayers / MSP --> Thin disc outermost
Suzuki Service Manual (SSM) --> Thin disc innermost

So... That leaves me/us with an interesting question.
Shall we trust Clymer / Ron Ayers / MSP OR SSM? Huh

Sources:
Clymers Suzuki LS 650 1986-2004: My own copy

Motorcycle Spare Parts (MSP): https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/suzuki-parts/motorcycles/ls650p-savage-19...

Ron Ayers: http://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d32fb6f8700232d0b3d922/clutch

"Suzuki Service manual": Post 10: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1119775997

Removed incorrect drawing (see later post for correct one)-v1

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« Last Edit: 04/17/17 at 14:31:04 by verslagen1 »

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17827 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #34 - 04/13/17 at 04:24:00 It has been my experience when taking apart engines that most likely have never been "fussed with" previously - that the thin plate and spring washer is on the outside.....the side nearest your leg when riding.
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youzguyz

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #35 - 04/13/17 at 04:30:54

What you are calling the "thin disk" (#20 in your diagram) is actually the single THICK disk. It is thicker than the other 5, but it has a larger hole in the middle.
The wear limit specs are BACKWARDS.

Besides that, it looks OK.

P.S. I am staring at an assembled disk pack as I type. Here is a picture of it. When you open that image in a new tab, it will appear in the same orientation as your diagram.

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20170413_064133.jpg

2002 - Silver (Thumper)
2000 - Green (Mad Hamish)
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut between the seat and the handlebars. Make sure yours isn't too tight or too loose.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17827 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #36 - 04/13/17 at 05:05:23 OK I agree....thin disc is the one with the larger center hole - to make room for the spring washer. And....I believe the purpose of the spring washer is to make the engagement of the clutch smoother and less grabby.
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Mekh

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #37 - 04/13/17 at 06:59:00

Thank you all for the feedback and photo of a disc pack.

Going by that there seems to be an error in Clymers in that the outermost disc is called No.1 and is stated as the thin one according to the data table in the manual.
Clymer
Overview: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j11kx43dzb452bg/2017-04-13_Clymer001.PNG?dl=0
Data table: https://www.dropbox.com/s/418d2ocbvptko36/2017-04-13_Clymer002.PNG?dl=0

Sooo... The following should be correct.

Assembly as per Clymers should be:
1. Clutch outer housing.
2. Thrust Washer.
3. Pressure Plate.
4. 5 x Friction Disc (Thin) / SteelPlate.
5. 1 x Friction Disc (Thick). With larger inner hole for wave washer.
6. Wave Washer.
7. Wave Washer Seat.
8. Clutch hub.

Also updated attached schematic.

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Clutch_Kobling_001.PNG

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youzguyz Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 2527 San Antonio, Texas Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #38 - 04/13/17 at 07:09:53 Your revised diagram looks good to me. If everyone concurs it should be chiseled in stone and put in the tech reference.
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Mekh

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #39 - 04/13/17 at 07:50:59

Some photos I just took... Anyone who can spot anything amiss?
Looks fine to me, based on what we have discussed... Huh

Any ideas on a good next step?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/akxk5s4fa6j1qze/2017-04-13%2016.35.35.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bo236910m2hec4m/2017-04-13%2016.41.04.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0ew8z17qbhxlnc/2017-04-13%2016.41.13.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nc0nu2v9i6oys78/2017-04-13%2016.42.01.jpg?dl=0

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youzguyz

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #40 - 04/13/17 at 08:21:38

Looks OK to me.
Next step:
Put on the clutch cover with the gasket in place, but only use a few bolts to hold it tight to the case.
Lift up on the lever GENTLY, (use a rubber band to lift it) so all you are doing is taking out the slack.
See where the arm falls in relation to the index marks.
If still too high, you need a longer push rod

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2002 - Silver (Thumper)
2000 - Green (Mad Hamish)
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut between the seat and the handlebars. Make sure yours isn't too tight or too loose.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17827 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #41 - 04/13/17 at 08:33:03 How many mm is the rod sticking out from the clutch housing?
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Mekh Full Member Offline Suzuki Savage Rocks! Posts: 128 Denmark Gender:	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #42 - 04/13/17 at 08:34:30 I have reached the same conclusion, however... My understanding from some posts here was that the lever would move downwards as the plates got worn. I have this gutfeeling something is not right. What grinding I have done should not result in what I see, sooo... I will take it apart and go over it thoroughly.
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Mekh

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Re: Clutch Cable / Arm
Reply #43 - 04/13/17 at 09:52:12

Ahemmm.....

This is embarrasing... It turns out that I must have been drunk, delirious and/or out of my mind when I assembled the clutch.
For whatever reason the washer between the clutch pressure plate and house I think it's called was kinda free floating rather than on the shaft, which in turn meant that the disc-basket was thicker than it should be and therefore I saw the result I did.

If I'm to take and share anything useful from this, it must be that if you see something that makes no sense.... double-check. There's most likely a reason it makes no sense

After having disassembled the entire clutch and re-assembled it, correctly, it seems that the lever is pretty much exactly where it should be. Will get back to you with the final verdict as soon as I have had dinner.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jlade15fogsa2d3/2017-04-13%2017.35.53.jpg?dl=0

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Clutch Cable / Arm Reply #44 - 04/13/17 at 10:17:30 if you see something that makes no sense.... double-check That's what opened my eyes as a young boy.
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