Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts? (Read 474 times)
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28367
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #30 - 11/17/15 at 11:36:01
 
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17804
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #31 - 11/17/15 at 11:46:57
 
Serowbot wrote on 11/17/15 at 11:36:01:


Well.....1.0343 is a 3.43% increase.  So the answer is the same!
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28367
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #32 - 11/17/15 at 11:59:41
 
Did I mention I suck at math?... Grin...
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
Art Webb
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #33 - 11/17/15 at 14:55:46
 
I've had Dunlop D404s on two bikes now, and I was not impresseed, it felt a bit greasy to me

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Art Webb
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #34 - 11/17/15 at 15:03:44
 
jcstokes wrote on 11/17/15 at 10:36:05:
I've been running 140/90 15 since the stock IRC wore out. I've had no complaints. There was a post here about the 140/90 having more unsprung weight, which supposedly conspires against handling. I've had no issues with this and lets face it, our bikes aren't really sport machines or super bikes.

I don't think the unsprung weight conspires against handling, but it does take a heavier hand to drop it into a turn, and whether it's the weight or the diameter, I lost some top end / acceleration with it
I've had this before with anther bike, the stack tires on that one fell between metric sized (it was an older bike) and the PO went to the higher side (100/90 18)
when the tire on the front interfered with the fender though, I had visions of a full on unintentional stoppie, so I dropped to the lower side (90/90/18) and the bike started tipping in much better, so I minimized the rear, too, whole different bike
I think it's like a CD vs a Cassetter though, you have to get used to a CD and then re listen to a cassette to really get how much better the CD is
Personally, I need all the help I can get in the twisties
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
chzeckmate
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Be the person your
dog thinks you are

Posts: 514
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #35 - 11/17/15 at 18:58:16
 
Dave wrote on 11/17/15 at 09:58:39:
...The Shinko 140/90-15 is supposed to be 142 wide (close to your 144 measurement), and it is supposed to have a rolling distance of 78.28" - which is an increase of 1.0343% in gearing.  At 4,000 rpm with the stock IRC you would be going 3,866 rpm at the same speed with the larger 140/90 (dropped 133 rpm).

I think the rpm difference is a little more than that.  Of course, I'm going by speed/rpm on the Shinko.  The same speed I would have achieved at 4,000rpm on the IRC is achieved on the Shinko with a difference in rpm of about 200 rpm, but it's important to remember that your numbers are comparing a new stock IRC 140/80 to a new Shinko 230 140/90.  My IRC was almost treadless so the diameter of my used tire is what I'm comparing.  That would explain the difference, I'd think.  The 200rpm difference feels (and sounds) really good.

Art Webb wrote on 11/17/15 at 14:55:46:
I've had Dunlop D404s on two bikes now, and I was not impresseed, it felt a bit greasy to me

Same here.  I've never been a fan of Dunlops.  Bridgestone and Pirelli have been winners for me for this exact reason.

jcstokes wrote on 11/17/15 at 10:36:05:
...There was a post here about the 140/90 having more unsprung weight, which supposedly conspires against handling....

Art Webb wrote on 11/17/15 at 15:03:44:
...I don't think the unsprung weight conspires against handling, but it does take a heavier hand to drop it into a turn, and whether it's the weight or the diameter, I lost some top end / acceleration with it...

This is exactly my experience with the handling of the Shinko 230 140/90.  It does require a heavier hand to drop into a tight turn and I like that a lot.  I'm heavy handed by nature, and it feels much more natural to me to have to take more command of the line.  The loss of acceleration is almost imperceptible and easily overcome by a slight change in riding style.  You mentioned you thought you'd lost some top end, but I have gained on the top end and I would think the math would support that as well, but even if you did lose some top end I'd think it's well worth it for the gains in overall performance, fuel economy, and the other items on my previous list of improvements the Shinko 230 140/90 provides.  
Back to top
 
 

'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
  IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28367
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #36 - 11/17/15 at 23:07:01
 
The more unsprung weight,.. the more inertia to fight with the suspension...
This means more time with less tire contact,... also, more weight for the engine to overcome in getting the bike moving...

...but,... more tire also creates more centrifugal force, giving more stability on the highway...

It's all about balance...  everything changes from parking lots to super-slabs... and all the curves in between...

Ain't nuttin' perfect... Huh...
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
chzeckmate
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Be the person your
dog thinks you are

Posts: 514
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #37 - 11/18/15 at 01:44:44
 
I appreciate the points made about unsprung weight.  It makes me  wonder what the weight difference between the stock IRC 140/80 and the Shinko 230 140/90 (and other brands/sizes) actually is.  Are the 140/90 tires actually heavier and if so, by how much?  It would take a lot to convince me that unsprung weight actually becomes a real issue changing from the stock tire to a 140/90.  I mean, I know the argument but I believe this is negligible on this bike.  I'd think that most of us here have done enough weight reduction to offset this anyway.  My experience is that both the handling and the stability is greatly improved and I understand that I'm not alone in this experience.  That's definitely real. It's my belief that the stock tires cause the steering on this bike to be too sharp, which as we all know leads to instability over rough surfaces.  I had considered getting a fork brace at one time but now I don't want it, don't need it.  This tire change has eliminated that thought completely.
Back to top
 
 

'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17804
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #38 - 11/18/15 at 04:05:15
 
The acceleration is affected both by the mass of the tire and the radius of the tire.

The formula for inertia of a cylinder is: I =1/2 mass x Radius squared.

So a heavier tire slows down the acceleration a bit by the extra weight, and also by the larger diameter.  The radius used is not the outside diameter of the tire - but the radius of the mass center of the tire profile.  For the larger/wider/heavier tire the radius is increased over the stock tire.

If you are not drag racing your Savage.....the reduced acceleration is most likely not an issue as you will still be able to accelerate with normal traffic you encounter on public roads.


The extra inertia of the larger tire that makes it accelerate a bit slower also makes it resistant to a change in speed and direction.  Braking will be just a bit slower.....mostly from the additional rotational inertia and a tiny bit from the extra weight moving forward.  The additional rotational mass will also make the bike a bit more resistant to directional change when initiating a turn or coming out of the turn.

Again.....this is not an issue unless you run timed events in the slalom course, or your buddies are leaving behind in the curves and won't wait for you at the next STOP sign.  The additional stability might even be a welcome change for some riders.

The bottom line is that if you use your bike as a Canyon Carver.....you might want to stay with the smaller tires that are available.  If you use your bike as a commuter or touring bike, the larger 140/90-15 might be a better choice.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
chzeckmate
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Be the person your
dog thinks you are

Posts: 514
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #39 - 11/18/15 at 04:28:56
 
You're right about that.  I definitely welcome the additional stability and traction, not to mention the higher top end, fuel economy, and quieter engine at higher speeds.  The loss in acceleration is not noticeable unless you're coming hard off the line and even then it's almost imperceptible.  What I notice is smoother acceleration in general. As for braking, I upgraded my front brake pads while I had the front wheel off so my braking is better than it's ever been.  Now that I've done this I'm even more eager to get the 428 chain conversion done.  It will have to wait awhile, but I'm feeling really good about it now.
Back to top
 
 

'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
  IP Logged
Art Webb
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #40 - 11/18/15 at 10:57:15
 
Shinko I'm using is the 712, which may be a bit different than the 230
I could get up to 90-95 mph on the stock IRC, might hit 80-85 on the shinko
Of course there's a bit of speedo correction involved, but not, I think, a full 10 mph
as far as traction, it's a non issue on a bike as light and low powered as a Savage, the stock 140 / 80 (in a decent tire) has more traction than this bike really needs, and so does a 130 / 90, in a decent tire (no, IRCs are not decent tires  Wink)
I've gotten used to the bike "humming' along at 70 since I moved out of town, so that's not an issue (I didn't see much of a change anyway)
Of course you went from a wore out IRC to the 230, so near anything is an improvement  Grin
I might try the 230 next time, on your recomendation, if I don't go Pirelli MT66 (also budget priced and highly recommended, but not available in 140/90 I don't think)
stability has never been an issue for me on the Savage (except the crappy IRC tracking grooves like a slot car) I came off a Ninja 500, and before that a Rebel, neither as stable as the savage (wish I'd kept the Ninja, I could use it for a commuter and just use the Savage for easy ridin)
that bit of extra resistance in the steering puts me off a lot, though, and I'm slow in the tight stuff as it is (Captain Slow I am Wink)
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
chzeckmate
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Be the person your
dog thinks you are

Posts: 514
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #41 - 11/18/15 at 18:14:28
 
Important Update:

So I inspected the rear tire today just to see how it's wearing and noticed a shiny thin line (looked like a thin line of tire polish) going around the right edge if the tire.  I knew immediately that the saddlebag support bolt must be rubbing occasionally as I hit deep depressions, ruts, or potholes to make that line.  I went to the hardware store and got some M8 carriage style allen bolts to replace the stock bolts and everything looks just fine now.
Back to top
 
 

'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
  IP Logged
Art Webb
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?
Reply #42 - 11/20/15 at 11:40:47
 
Mine rubbed like that too, at first, but not badly
A few cranks on the preload adjusters and a few miles and no more rubbibg
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/26/24 at 21:12:48



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Shinko 230 Tourmaster Tires...Thoughts?


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.