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Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc (Read 5530 times)
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #45 - 04/24/15 at 05:42:34
 


..... and like any show, there were vendors there hawking nickel powder mixes .....


Seriously, for all that attended they say it was like an air of excitement because it was all just sitting out there, glowing in the background and all the doers were there and so were the skeptics (mostly not saying who they were, but they were there).

This was the first international LENR show ever, and it was a rousing success.   Next year they will need a much bigger place for all the manufacturers and product lines and demos, etc.



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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #46 - 04/24/15 at 09:32:51
 
The magnitude of this discovery is not yet known, but unless someone goes to great lengths to sink it, IF it IS what it is looking to be, it's gonna be the biggest thing since electrical service available to homes. Is that redundant?
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #47 - 04/24/15 at 19:50:22
 

Justin, take it just for only those applications claimed for it right now -- wet steam production and dry radiant or convection heating at a COP level of 4 to  ~ 20 COP ~ level  (four-five times better than natural gas).    

Yes, LENR will be significant and yes it is obviously becoming very very real.

All the tester boys have radiation detectors going all the time and very occasionally a low energy emission is seen, something that could be stopped by a sheet of aluminum foil.   One could argue that random cosmic rays going through the ceiling would kick up enough secondary radiation to give the same sort of occasional rare weak reading on the detectors, but caution is the name of the game right now, so let's all say it came from the dogbone itself.    

So shield it -- easy enough to do.

The sheet metal shields that are over the dogbones lately in case of an overpressure event or a melt down event will also do double duty as radiation shields for such emissions.   I would think commercial units would stay behind layers of sheet metal all the time being inside a heating plant, so that would work out well too.

Will some country have LENR heaters within a year or so -- certainly.   But with red tape and UL test requirements here in America it will take longer than that just to come up with the "certification test program".   What will happen in all reality is Russia, India and China will all move quicker than the USA will, as will Norway and Sweden and Indonesia and Africa.

But we can watch the fun unfold -- and it is obvious that Rossi and Industrial Heat are now letting select people see the 1 megawatt plant, but by non-disclosure agreements only.


==========================================


Will the oil and natural gas lobby work against it?   Yes, certainly -- it is already suspected that some "debunk Rossi" troll type internet posters are being paid by someone to cast as much doubt over the process as possible, and we are reminded that one of the early USA pioneers was SHOT DEAD at the end of his parents driveway while picking up the morning paper.    

(yeah, shot dead -- that put a halt to people publicizing their research for over 10 years as shooting people is really a sorta extreme form of discouragement, don't you think?)

You will notice Rossi was not at the show, his boss was.   Rossi tends to strongly polarize any debate and he has a long history of casting forth red herring tidbits of information instead of really helping "the imitators".   So, Rossi is somewhat of a PR liability, eh, so keep him busy in his container and let the head dog handle it.

People trust and like folks like Tom Darden and like Parkhomov -- he is a nice open polite old man with a very cute granddaughter.    So let him be the grandfatherly face of LENR, so who cares really just so it rolls forward smoothly from now on.

Trillions and Trillions of spent oil infrastructure money are are at stake right now though, and if you don't think that BIG OIL and BIG GAS is going to try to fight back some to protect their investment, you are kidding yourself.   The futures market is showing down spike volatility as these LENR shows and development milestones come up and go by.

Politicians will "want to go slowly" as they get pressured by their campaign contributors, universities will be encouraged not to play at all by these same people.

Climactically cold or hungry nations, especially those lacking natural resources will not drag their feet though.   LENR knowledge will progress fairly quickly driven by the net coordinated research that is going on now.


Wink    Can't stop it really, it is just too easy to do ....


Personally, I am amazed at the amount of DARPA program developed knowledge, the NASA propulsion lab knowledge and the Japanese Industrial Conglomerate based knowledge that is slowly seeping out now.   A lot of this early development stuff is ALREADY KNOWN in detail already.

And please remember, our entire ECONOMIC CULTURE is oil based -- so perhaps going slowly is a smart thing.
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« Last Edit: 04/25/15 at 07:50:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #48 - 04/25/15 at 07:14:51
 


This form of convection heater uses a water heater type electric element to heat a light non-evaporating oil inside heater, which then heats the air by convection.

Plug in a hot cat or a steam cat derivative (resized a bit since the steam cat units are all industrial sized right now) and you could have a properly dampened and shielded steady state running system that you could put in a cold spot in your house and just let it run all winter long.

Sized to heat a singe room, one or more of these at the thermal low spots of your house could carry the largest part of your ongoing winter heating load, simply letting your old central heat system kick in at night just enough to circulate the air and maintain the temperature setting for the whole house when it gets colder.

A hot cat could go into a central core area just like the electric unit does now and just sit there glowing red hot inside a triple walled set of formed steel enclosures (first enclosure is the outside of the core itself, second is the walls of the core area, third enclosure is the outer form of the convection radiator surface).   This would be low energy radiation proof, certainly much better than the raw units that are being run now.

A steam cat type core already has the first and second wall of shielding, so you might have it go into the liquid itself if you wanted to put up with a sealing gasket.   Me, I'd avoid that and let it run inside a solid walled core area keeping it separated from the oil.

Power requirement would run like the Parkhomov unit does now, 1200 watts to heat it up initially, then 300 watts or less to maintain output at the set level.   Funny thing is that this same "1200 watts to heat it up" could be used in a sequential fashion to heat up multiple hot cat cores sequentially in a larger style heater unit but you'd still have to pay the 200-300 watts ongoing for the control system power usage per core.  

Plus since they know now that commercial cores would likely be "started up" initially at the plant (each unit must be tested after all) then restarted once installed in the appliance off MUCH MUCH less startup current/time --- so it can all be cheaper and easier on the end user.

Heat your house for the cost of running your toaster for a hour or so, then it drops back to the cost of a couple of light bulbs for on-going control purposes.   This sounds good to me.

Smiley    .... yeah, LENR room heaters are on the way as we speak, built by Kenmore and others just like electrical heaters are done now.
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #49 - 04/27/15 at 09:50:16
 

We mentioned Parkhomov style powder mix being for sale at the show last week, right?

Here is the first of the immediate wave of replications that are now being done.



As you can see, this guy used a clear quartz crystal tube so he could take close up pics and video of the thing lighting off so folks can try to understand it better.    What he discovered was a new cheaper light bulb that does free room heating at the same time --- a very bright light.  

He has nick named it "little sun".    If you put a photocell equipped reflector behind it you could get ongoing small amounts of power off the photocell, making  up the potential of a self-sustaining self powered control system ..... as well as getting lots of light and ample room heat off of it.

And when you wanted to go to sleep, just shut the front swinging door which is also a photocell and let it be dark and still generate heat and power (store that in a battery of course) while you are sleeping.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaA1lUTSY6Y     it is a YouTube movie, click on it.

It takes forever to watch it ramp up, so just click it by quarters to see the short version of the "little sun" lighting up for the first time.



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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #50 - 04/30/15 at 20:24:57
 
I don't know... both meters are going up (amps and volts?) throughout the brightening procedure.
Were they not supposed to keep the input at the same level and the power output/heat raise?
I could put a bulb on a circuit and turn it up until it blew out.... I see no significant use for this... other than testing the mixtures heat resistance.
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #51 - 05/01/15 at 02:52:16
 

He has gotten lots of suggestions, including him needing a recording lumen meter since he is sending a lot of his output energy out as visible light while all the previous solid ceramic tubes kept all the light inside and released it all as heat, which is easier to measure.

He did no calibration run at all prior to doing his test -- he just wanted to see what would happen.   A very "preliminary explorations" sort of test, to be sure.  Post mortem says his loosely wound wire coils moved on him due to thermal expansion and shorted out, so  next time that needs some improvement also.

He did discover the "little sun" effect, so his test was good for something.

This guy did build a LENR unit that showed the signs of a positive COP (when the little sun lit up the rate of increase in the amps required started to flatten out then began to rise again later when the temps got over 950 degrees) but since he output his energy both as light and as heat and he lacked a calibration run (and the light part of his gaging) his experiment was rendered "inconclusive".   Nobody really knows if he hit a positive COP or not.

I suspect he will try it again with some improvements.   However, if his measurement stuff is limited to what you saw he likely will not be making "conclusive" results on his next trials either.

But yeah, this stuff is easy enough to do that guys can do it on the kitchen table with stuff they have on hand.

And clear quartz glass tubes do work, apparently.


.... and them theory boys need to show photons being emitted from their reactions now too.
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« Last Edit: 05/02/15 at 15:58:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #52 - 05/02/15 at 07:26:40
 

Back to Rossi and his steam plant -- he has granted trips to people and they are allowed to begin talking about it.  At least the second hand people are talking about it -- they didn't sign non-disclosures personally you know.

Another comment about sources visiting the 1MW plant currently under test by Rossi from the Sifferkol website run by Torkel Nyberg
( see here http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=626:  )

“I know first hand from very reliable sources that themselves have visited the Rossi/Industrial Heat E-Cat customer that the plant works very well. This has been verified both by measurements made by the customer and by significantly reduced electricity bills. The plant seems to be able to produce heat from electricity with a COP in the range of 20-80 depending on the level of self-sustain-mode applied. I guess that is what Rossi is working on right now.”


Rossi himself is blog-leaking that he is getting these 80-ish COPs by using a neat trick with his 4 reactors in a steel enclosure by using the outside units under PLC control to "excite" the center units without driving them directly in any fashion.   So, about half his cores are producing "free heat" for really free, or for greatly reduced electrical cost, take your pick.

Some of his center reactors haven't seen direct excitation in 4 months or more ....   Rossi's next installation will hit closer to 80 COP from the get-go since he only invented this trick after several months of running the old plant full out.

(He probably found it accidentally when a PLC in a center core went bad but the reactions and the good output continued anyway)

Grin

Still, 80 COP can run a car or anything else that has enough room for multiple clustered small reactors.   Control the middle units to sway the rest ..... I suspect Rossi is doing some new designs based on this usage model as we speak.
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« Last Edit: 05/05/15 at 09:36:52 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #53 - 05/03/15 at 08:57:03
 
 
Roll Eyes

Watch this and tell me that NASA hasn't been working on this stuff for a while.   This flick was released along with an aeronautical engineering journal publication news brief of a short successful test run of a prototype engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy0kHQASsX8        it is a short video, click on it to watch it

Here is my point -- BILLIONS are being spent by DARPA, NASA and others to chase wild arsed dreams.   Somebody just spent 100 Million Dollars on a 100 ton magnet for a fusion engine prototype that has a proposed total COP of 3 and only a very small chance of success.

Stop funding stupid arsed projects and instead fund something cheap that already shows it works .....  fund a Brillouin reactor for 20 million if you want some expensive pie in the sky stuff, but fund something that is much closer to WORKING.
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #54 - 05/03/15 at 18:07:32
 
If you believe that the goal is to spend wisely,,,,
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #55 - 05/16/15 at 20:57:09
 
I don't wanna hijack, but it's dropped off the front page, so, ill pop this in here and see if we can revive it.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/13/the-top-8-conspiracy-theories-...

Over Unity Energy
Despite many people opposing this idea, constantly citing the law of conservation of energy, multiple papers have been published in various peer reviewed journals showing that yes, extracting energy from the vacuum is possible. You can find these in the articles linked below.

“The concept that efficiencies cannot be greater than 100% is due to an incomplete understanding of the properties of space. The second law of thermodynamics must be modified to account for the fact that space is not empty, as has been taught for the last 150 years.” – Toby Grotz, engineer and researcher of new energy technologies since 1973

Collective Evolution has been lucky enough to have been covering a story, and working with Toby Grotz and Paramahamsa Tewari, to help create more awareness about this. Tewari has invented an over-unity machine. We have assisted them in building the website and we are extrememly honored to help spread the word: tewari.org

We encourage all those who are reading this to check it out.

Do you really think that these brilliant scientists and engineers would devote their entire lives to something that did not show potential, or something that is not real? This concept is, again, still faced with fierce resistance, but this will all change, and for the sake of the planet it has to, so stay tuned!

You can view pictures of the machine at the link to the site above. It won’t be long until we are showing you a video of it ourselves.

tes

Related CE Articles on this topic where you can find out more information:

Breaking News: Over-Unity Reactionless Generator Invented In India

Why There Will Be No Supression Of New Energy Technology

World Renowned Physicist Explains The Reality Of Free Energy

Multiple Scientists Confirm The Reality Of Free Energy

The site has the last four as hotlinks.

NO, Homer, not That kinda hotlinks..
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #56 - 05/17/15 at 02:36:21
 

Justin,

The E-Cat and Hot Cat technologies are being quietly developed as commercial implementations by Rossi, Industrial Heat and the Cherokee Energy Consortium.  

The E-Cat is a wet steam generator and the Hot Cat is a room heater.  Since they have to spend a full year in controlled 100% recorded testing per implementation type just to apply to get the needed safety approvals to sell the stuff, they are quietly going about doing just that.

All US patents for all parties have been denied at this point in time -- that is a dry well and will be have to be settled in court after the fact.    Right now Parkhomov has open sourced all his work on the Hot Cat type of dogbone reactor anyway and Rossi (obviously the real inventor) simply isn't chasing that rabbit any more as it is a complete waste of time.

Big Oil is still doing everything possible to deny and decry all of the new energy initiatives.   Solar and Wind is peeking out anyway, but costs to produce solar energy and wind energy are simply not competitive with natural gas and coal generation at this point in time.

You have lots of kitchen-table-top guys YouTube posting attempts to do a Parkhomov reactor using Parkhomov supplied powder, with results that are not conclusive because they lack proper instrumentation and controlled power inputs -- several think they got it shortly before it melted down but cannot prove it due to technical lacks in their data recording set ups.

Remember, Rossi spent years melting down rigs before he learned how to control it -- he knew it was there because there wasn't NEARLY enough electrical energy available to melt all that stuff in just a few seconds ....  so, you have to give him credit for sticking with it through all the years of frustration, no support and lots and lots and lots of derision.

Even Parkhomov had his own equipment issues, he was using a laptop to record his data and it would go into sleep mode and stop recording data (he would have to frantically restart it) so his data has gaps in it and he has now been derided now for splicing the data back together with the 5 minute gaps in his data just plain missing.   He publicly apologized for this splicing and has since then went totally silent as he personally isn't going to put up with the trolls and deriders.

Remember, any flaw in your method is a reason to be disbelieved by the doubters.

Until there is a stream of independent replications, this development is "still pending" in the eyes of mainstream science.  

And until they are forced to believe it, they will not.  

Roll Eyes

I liked the little sun guy, he found out something new -- and it should be possible to calculate the energy output to make that much light and compare it to the input power he was using.

Simple rig ups like Parkhomov's water heater rig are simple and easy to measure using standard calorimeter methods -- but please realize that all it takes to discredit (and shame) a good guy like Parkhomov is to blast his honor on a public forum for a MS based equipment failure that put gaps in his data.

Paid trolls are vicious critters, and scientists are becoming very careful not to allow the trolls access to their work because the scientists careers can be destroyed very easily by a troll banging on them in public.

Undecided
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« Last Edit: 05/17/15 at 18:57:10 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #57 - 05/17/15 at 06:46:06
 
Thanks for the Readers Digest level response. That's how you hafta talk to me, connect the dots, on this topic.
Did you get anything from my post?
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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #58 - 05/17/15 at 09:25:16
 

Yeah, I read the stuff but don't report on it because until they get ready to have some other disinterested people replicate their stuff for "independent verification" purposes it isn't likely cooked well enough yet to spend much time on.

An example of that is this little nugget .....    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/06/announcement-demonstration-of-steorns-ne...

Having a bunch of folks charge their cell phones off your magic box doesn't help people believe in it -- you have to take the box apart, show them how to make a box then verify it works off of their box that they created -- that is independent verification.

This is why Rossi got no respect at all until Lugano and even then it took Parkhomov doing it himself completely separately using his own powder mix before it was considered even partially verified.

But I certainly understand wanting to protect IP that is not patented -- the US Patent office is making this whole sort of thing a lot uglier and harder than it needs to be by their refusal to grant a patent on any "non-standard" energy sources.

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Re: Update on E-Cat, state of oil markets, etc
Reply #59 - 05/30/15 at 06:21:14
 

The state of the art on Parkhomov Replications

We have had more than a few individuals posting YouTubes of garage jury rigs that have spotty data collection and that are generally run on up until the reaction actually starts some major COP and then instantly melt themselves down in a run-away.

It is a repeated theme.   All they have done is verify you can reach an exothermic reaction for a relatively few seconds that obviously goes past what chemistry can do.

(unless the rods were packed with thermite, and a larger quantity of thermite than could obviously fit in the small enclosed space).    

..... plus burning thermite has a huge cloud of white smoke associated with it.   All melt downs videoed so  far are smokeless, but do tend to have some sparking going on from the electrical elements melting together and shorting out.


Here is a properly MFMP constructed rig that does ongoing "no fuel confirmation" SIMULTANEOUSLY at the same exact time it takes the active data, and it is instrumented well enough to ramp up very very slowly so as to avoid the melt down syndrome.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/28/mfmp-to-start-new-glowstick-test-may-28t...



This rig is NOT melting down, that is because it is being ramped up sooooo veeery SLLLOOOOWWLLLYY to avoid that problem.

It is currently stable at a positive (but low) COP that it can maintain under automatic computer control.    They are discussing where to take it next, or let it run here for a month or so and then break the fuel charge down for analysis.

So far they have determined 3 "ramp points" to get to a positive COP and quite frankly they want to know what sort of reactions are going on in there at a just barely positive COP so they will know what actually changes when they go up to the next ramp point.

This is real research being done live on the Web by competent people.

The group of people staying up 24 hours a day PARTICIPATING in each move of the experiment is also amazing to me.

Read the comments (or pop down through the page after page after page of ongoing comments).

Two scientists, sleeping in shifts are running the hardware ......   and yes, just like Parkhomov equipment resets and such have put gaps in their data, but since somebody on the web was always watching at that point in time it was all properly documented in the comments.

Smiley

They are now asking for volunteers around California to come assist the two guys running the hardware -- simple exhaustion is going to stop the experiment otherwise.

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« Last Edit: 05/30/15 at 07:48:39 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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