Dave, thanks for posting.  I hate to think what mine look like.  

I always thought oil was oil and you'll be in good shape if you keep it fresh.  Wrong again.  Like I mentioned I got some Eastwood ZDDP on the way and the change I did I put in normal shell rotella.  Thanks again.

I will add.. because it has not been said in this thread...

Not only is there a NEED for ZDDP... BUT you MUST AVOID oils with Moly

This seems to be the BIG problem in the US... EPA/oil companies are moving away from ZDDP and moving to Moly. However, because the (older style) bikes have the clutches bathed in the engine oil... the Moly sticks to them and prevents their operation. Oil companys though like to use terms like "slickeners" instead of just saying Moly.

I use T6 not only because it does have ZDDP (in whatever amount) but also because it does NOT have Moly.

The ZDDP arrived in 2 days from Eastwood, which is amazing for slow boat cheap shipping.  I put some in and let it idle for a minute or 2.  Does that stuff work so good it actually makes the engine sound a whole lot smoother?

I'm have Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40 with Eastwood Zddp additive in the s40.  I took out the S40 today and it really ran well, a whole lot better than just off the shelf oil.  

I read the tech section oil recommendations, comments on this thread, and took took into consideration the advice of a good mechanic.  He was also apprehensive about full synthetic oil.  But it is hard to argue the fact that one fella has 100K+ on his.

By running basic oil, I think it was safe to say the top end of my engine were on the same path as the pictures on this thread.

Based on your experience, would you agree this is the ideal oil combination / recommendation.  Thanks.  

Is there any chance that maybe the quality of the Suzuki cam and rockers are partly to blame for this kind of wear? Not trying to start an argument and if the Rotella works you'd be mad not to use it. Just that I remember fixing a bunch of Hondas (XR250) in the early 90's that had the same failures, and was caused by poor hardening. Early VF's too. Meanwhile there's a bazillion cars and bikes getting around on flat tappets with no problems at all. My DR250, XT 225 are both flat tappet, no problems there, and high mileage on any old bike oil. My Ducati has 100,000km and no wear evident (Ok, theres no valve springs there but the weird cam profile makes up for it...). BTW, I'm using Penrite diesel oil that has a large dose of zinc in the Cabbage, just in case. It's the same price as bike oil anyway.

Take it logically, please.   ALL cam lobes and rocker tappet surfaces are low to medium carbon steel with a case hardening layer on top of them.

All such products, car and motorcycle both, can have both case hardening and heat treatment variations.

Do we have these variation exposures on Savage parts, sure we do.

ZDDP was invented to allow car makers to MAKE A SILLY ENGINE THAT LASTED 100,000 PLUS MILES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Before ZDDP, engines got overhauled around 50-80,000 miles (more or less).

No pre-WWII car really lasted past 10-15 years before it was totally eat up.


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Now, speaking generally just about the Savage -- before we started using Rotella and bumping, it was not uncommon for folks to have to replace cams and rockers around piston time, which generally took place at 40-50,000 miles.

Does Rotella make a difference?     YES  

Is it easy to separate out ZDDP effects from everything else?    

No, you have to weed out all the "low oil episodes" etc. to get any raw data.   But you can do this if you keep track of it as the events happen.

Actually, since we as a group went to Rotella and began bumping, no new engine that started out on that regimen has ever required a piston due to wear out, or a cam or a set of rockers.   There were some that were run with car oils for the first 3/4 of their life that did though.

Versy goes through engines for high mileage run at high interstate speeds faster than just abut anybody.   Versy keeps oil in his engine pretty much religiously, so if anyone can answer that question he can.


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There are examples of high mileage old bikes that ran strictly old style oils, I got an example of such from Lancer a while back so I got a chance to look at it in some detail.

The case depth on the cam lobe tip was about totally gone, worn away.   It had remnants of the case depth cracking away and coming off (the pitting we see in the pictures).

No un-augmented old style oil can support our cam lobe and flat tappet system.

Can Rotella plus bump do the job?     Well, it apparently does it a lot better than un-augmented old style oils can do.

This also causes me to suggest that if you got some mild pitting you just put it back in and run it until it wears out.   You will eventually begin to lose power because your valves don't lift as high as they used to -- but by then you may be old enough not to really CARE about tippy top raw performance as much as you would now.



... or if you are a RYCA boy, get tired of the endless push up and sell the RYCA  and get you something else more comfortable.

Thanks for the thoughts, Oldfeller. A couple of points: Pre WW2 metallurgy was such that parts just wore out faster. Materials and hardening have come a long way since then.
"No un-augmented old style oil can support our cam lobe and flat tappet system." I'd debate that (if I had debating skills). like I said earlier, my other flat tappet bikes are just fine on dino motorcycle oil and my old Commodore (3.8l buick v6) has 410,000km, never been apart and still runs like new (did a compression test last year and they are still within factory specs). It has hydraulic lifters, pushrods, pressed steel rocker arms. No special oil used, just whatever's on special, and changed every 10,000km.
Like I said, I'm not questioning the efficacy of Rotella, and I'd use it too, if it were available in Australia, just making the point that maybe Suzuki quality has to shoulder some of the blame, not only the antique architecture.