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Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shooter (Read 523 times)
WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #30 - 02/20/13 at 18:35:34
 
JOG; please do not slip into the typical pattern many conspiracy enthusiast do by 1) insulting the one offering evidence against your beliefs. I am fairly certain I can read and comprehend data as well as you can  and 2) by changing the topic.

We were talking about the WTC towers, not building 7. The WTC did NOT fall at free fall speeds. That’s very easy to see. Are you saying the debris you see falling next to the building, which clearly is outpacing the bulk of the building, is being forced downward by a force? If so, what is that force? If no, why would the debris and the building not fall equally if, as you claim, the supporting columns of the towers were blown away?
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Paraquat
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #31 - 02/21/13 at 06:15:48
 
Thermite holds onto heat pretty well.

Also, the building was designed to withstand a direct impact from a jet.
Quote:
But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower.

I know I've posted this before because it popped up in my previous searches.


--Steve
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WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #32 - 02/21/13 at 09:58:19
 
I’m not a chemist, but I’m pretty sure thermite does not retain or increase its heat supply in a non-oxygen environment like tires burning at the bottom of a landfill for example. Thermite seems like a pretty volatile material.

Also, when you bring up the word thermite, it’s like sprinkling magic fairy dust over a conversation…. Since its properties are not well known by the average person, whenever the facts don’t meet a pre-conceived theory, it’s too easy to play the thermite card and presto-changeo; you can explain anything. How could bombers have planted enough explosives to blow the columns out without anyone noticing. Simple, a few grains of magic, military grade thermite would do the trick…..

Regardless, it doesn’t matter. Smoldering metal buried underground prove or disprove nothing. It’s documented that fires burned in the rubble pile.

But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower.

And this means nothing as well. The towers withstood the collision. It was the fires that weakened the steel joints.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #33 - 02/21/13 at 09:59:34
 
By the way, the Titanic withstood the collision with the iceberg. It was the water leaking in that sunk her…
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #34 - 02/21/13 at 11:15:19
 
WebsterMark wrote on 02/21/13 at 09:59:34:
By the way, the Titanic withstood the collision with the iceberg. It was the water leaking in that sunk her…


That made me chuckle.

Thermite is not very well known.
I do know that you could fill a flower pot, put it on the hood of a car, and if ignited will burn through the pot, hood, engine, and about 2 or three feet into the ground.
You can't extinguish it.


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srinath
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #35 - 02/21/13 at 19:27:48
 
Paraquat wrote on 02/21/13 at 06:15:48:
Thermite holds onto heat pretty well.

Also, the building was designed to withstand a direct impact from a jet.
Quote:
But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower.

I know I've posted this before because it popped up in my previous searches.


--Steve


It did stand up to the impact ... for several hours. Enough time to evacuate the building and then some, if not for fires, missing floors and stairways and other such problems.

Of course we were not talking about WTC1 and 2 though that troofers claim was demolished.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #36 - 02/22/13 at 09:19:49
 
Lets go back to the pancake thing

Once again

Floor connections weaken
floor lets go, falls
floor below hit, knocked loose from supports Fall
Now 2 floors falling
strikes third floor, drives IT loose from its connections

Is that an accurate description of the Pancake theory? Is that what you guys believe happened?
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WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #37 - 02/22/13 at 10:03:11
 
I’ll say, yes, basically. Devils in the details of course, but yes. The only thing I’d add is that one corner broke free first. You can see this when the building above that floor leans to one side for a short instant until the supports broke free from the other corners and the whole thing fell down.
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #38 - 02/22/13 at 11:03:51
 
Look up controlled demolition and you will see how difference a highrise falls when controlled.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #39 - 02/22/13 at 11:10:15
 
By the way, if your planned retort is what you’ve mentioned before which is the official NIST report rejected the pancake theory, I’d object. That makes little practical difference. They said the vertical column supports were weakened by heat and one began to fail. The downward force was transferred to other columns which were also weakened and collapse began. The weight of the building above crushed downward. They stopped there and went no further.  

From an accident reconstruction point of view and for engineering education, it’s important to understand exactly what happened, but it doesn’t bolster an conspiracy theory claims. (Other than it becomes a more convenient explanation for planting much fewer charges of magic pixie dust explosives)

Regardless if the floor joist pulled away and pancaked down or the columns buckled, the result is the same and looks the same.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #40 - 02/22/13 at 20:55:51
 
The result is that 3 steel reinforced building went down, essentially in their own footprints, one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling, none prior or since have done what happened that day. Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane. The janitor of one of the buildings wasnt allowed to testify. He was the last man out of that building.,His statements contradict the official story.
Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised.
Their central columns, the elevator shafts, were very heavy steel.
For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up,& for the NOT to be any part of that structure Stronger than the other parts, for the Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief.,
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WebsterMark
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #41 - 02/23/13 at 06:46:39
 
The result is that 3 steel reinforced building went down, essentially in their own footprints, one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling, none prior or since have done what happened that day. Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane. The janitor of one of the buildings wasnt allowed to testify. He was the last man out of that building.,His statements contradict the official story.
Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised.
Their central columns, the elevator shafts, were very heavy steel.
For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up,& for the NOT to be any part of that structure Stronger than the other parts, for the Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief.,


Let’s take this one step at a time.

one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling,

This is nothing more a 'fog of war error' and has been correctly dismissed for years yet keeps coming up. Sort of like the ‘you can buy a brand new sports car for $500 but the only problem is 4 guys overdosed in it and no one can get the smell out’. I heard that in 1978 in high school. My son heard the same thing a couple years ago.... Lies and misinformation are hard to get rid of.  What you’re alleging is The BBC network was in on the conspiracy and began their pre-planned on air announcement they had written up in advance 20 minutes before they knew someone was suppose to blow the building up. That’s absolute nonsense, stop repeating it. Here’s the transcript of the report:

We'll leave it there for a moment. We've got some news just coming in actually, that the Solomon Brothers' Building in New York, right in the heart of Manhattan, has also collapsed. This does fit in with a warning from the British Foreign Office a couple of hours ago to British Citizens that there is a real risk -- ah let me get the exact words -- the British Foreign Office -- the foreign part of the British government -- said it was a strong risk of further atrocities in the United States, and it does seem as if there now is another one with the Solomon Brothers' Building collapsing. We've got no word yet on casualities. One assumes that the building would have been virtually deserted. Whether this latest collapse is going to influence the President, who we heard about a few moments ago, who was expected to be heading from Nebraska back to Washington, we don't know.

We’ve heard this type of at every major incident. News agencies report rumors as facts. That’s all that happened here. I remember that day well, i was in Washington State and there was a report that the Sears Tower had been hit. Who knows where that report came from.

none prior or since have done what happened that day.

Correct, not a single 110  story sky scrapper has been hit by a plane full of thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel. No large luxury liner hit an iceberg in the same was as one did in April of 1915 either.

Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane

No, it wasn’t. It was hit by fallen debris and was evacuated and it’s collapsed spoken as a possibility for hours before. There are plenty of pictures showing fires inside and damage.

Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised

Tend to; what do you me tend to? Several million pounds were above the weak point that collapsed. When a pyramid of cheerleaders falls because someone in the middle buckles, they don’t fall over, they collapse downward because the lower levels are forced to accept more weight because it is no longer channeled equally across the lower levels. Do this experiment. Stand straight up, bend one knee up andstart to fall to that side. Now, after you’ve leaned a couple degrees to one side, let your other leg, which is now supporting all your weight, buckle. You will collapse in a footprint much smaller than your height. Again, watch slow motion video of the tower collapse. It does this exact same thing.

For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up

No, no no no! This is so untrue and is another LIE that needs to stop. Force is channel downward in multiple directions. Remove channels for that force to flow and it still continues to flow, only it flows to fewer channels. Everything was NOT meant to hold it up. All parts working together are meant to hold it up. That's like saying you can remove load bearing internal walls in your house with no fear of the roof collapsing because the outside walls can bear all the weight. Try it.

Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief.

It did NOT heat equally. Once columns were weakend and could no longer carry the load, the load was directed onto other weakened columns and collapse was inevitable. Again, watch the slow motion videos. The tower above the impact zone begins to lean to one side and then the whole thing falls straight down as the weakend columns of the other sides of the building collapse from the extra weight load they are forced to carry.

Every conspiracy claim can be countered a thousand times over. And I’ve not even asked you to come up with how the conspiracy was pulled off; how they planted charges unnoticed, how the charges in 3 buildings remain undamaged during a horrific fire until someone detonated them and on and on and on….

It’s time to put the 9/11 conspiracy to bed. It’s not true and it takes away from what really happened and how it could happen again if we get complacent who are enemies are.
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srinath
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #42 - 02/23/13 at 14:18:07
 
Webby ... no sense arguing with a Troofer. I cant believe I am taking your side on this still ... but I have realised troofers and birfers cant be reasoned with.
Terms like Freefall speed and inside its own foot print all sound beautifully scientific except ... demolitions dont have free fall speeds, in fact demolitions are at different speeds depending on buildings and surroundings and location etc, and they routinely exceed their footprint too.
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #43 - 02/24/13 at 14:37:19
 
See what you did JOG?... you put me and Srinath on the same side of an issue. thanks a lot...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo
Reply #44 - 02/28/13 at 18:19:09
 
Thats your mistake. Now youre both wrong.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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