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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shooter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1360547624 Message started by Midnightrider on 02/10/13 at 17:53:44 |
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Title: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shooter Post by Midnightrider on 02/10/13 at 17:53:44 Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shooter Did Not Use Assault Weapon Katie Pavlich News Editor, Townhall Dec 27, 2012 06:48 PM EST Earlier today I posted an NBC News report about the type of weapons Adam Lanza used during his Sandy Hook rampage. That report was from December 15 and contained false information. According to the Newtown coroner, Lanza used a semi-automatic AR-15, not four handguns as the report said. The entire post has been retracted. I apologize for the error. First it was an assault rifle, then they found four pistols inside the school, now its back to assault rifle. I think the assault rifle fits Obama's agenda a lot better. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/13 at 16:37:28 What? Another LIE?> Gee,, whoda guessed? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/12/13 at 18:06:03 It is futile. Guns are hideable, guns are indestructible. Guns dont kill people. Bullets do. Gun control is about hitting your target ... especially when you are throwing the gun @ the target. Bullet control is about hitting your target. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Trippah on 02/12/13 at 20:01:28 I think we should go back to pissing contests......should kill off the foot fungii. ;) |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Buil2Last on 02/12/13 at 23:52:25 Cars kill more people than guns, wanna outlaw cars? In fact, motorcycles are more dangerous.. let's outlaw them! |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/13/13 at 05:31:36 5A4D51544C0A54594B4C0E0E380 wrote:
That's why you have a driving test and a license and tons of checks and balances - like DUI check points, yearly inspections, yearly registration etc etc ... and guess what - you have insurance, try driving without it. Essentially you institute all that in a gun ownership right and we can talk. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/13/13 at 05:32:50 7E58435A5A4B422A0 wrote:
You're too late, the NRA has been @ it for 150 years my friend. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/14/13 at 12:33:19 What? Another LIE?> Gee,, whoda guessed? A lie or a correction to incorrect media reports? Do you remember how long Columbine was thought to be done by 4 kids instead of 2? Do you remember how long is was believe they had a Trench Coat Mafia club and they were shooting at jocks? The media puts out bad reports all the time. I wouldn't call it a lie. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/13 at 14:14:26 Yea! They do, now that ya mention it. Heck,, BBC, IIRC, called Solomon Bros building as having collapsed into its own footprint some 20 minutes before it actually did. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/14/13 at 14:38:50 have no idea what you are talking 'bout on that one. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Midnightrider on 02/14/13 at 16:34:17 A BBC Reporter announced the Solomon building had collapsed while it was visible in the background the whole time she was talking. Twenty minutes later it collapsed into its own tracks just like it had been demolitioned by experts. You can find it on You Tube. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/17/13 at 08:49:31 5E7A777D7A747B67617A777661130 wrote:
May be a time lapsed background ... They may have had a delay in video, may have use a file footage, however they have live feeds via voice. Demolition style implosions take several days @ the very least to build and take a crew of a few 100 atleast. If the building was to be blown up they had to have started atleast 10 days prior to its collapse on 9/11 and used maybe 100-200 explosives experts to "demolish" it. That is a huge number of people to keep quiet. You think they were in the building and died with it ? A huge fire inside the building can cause a similar collapse to an implosion. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/13 at 19:27:03 But there Wasnt a huge fire,, You KNOW nothing but speak incessantly as if you do. SHUT UP & go read a few things., |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 02/18/13 at 07:43:24 They had teams with dogs sweeping the Towers for weeks prior to September 11th. They'd evacuate all personnel and these teams would be inside for hours. Is that enough time with no one watching them? --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/18/13 at 09:37:34 They had teams with dogs sweeping the Towers for weeks prior to September 11th. what? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 02/18/13 at 11:15:12 I can't find the article now as I'm swamped here at work but I'm sure JOG will find it. They had teams sweep through, floor by floor, evacuating all personnel and then "investigating for explosives" prior to 9/11. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/18/13 at 15:24:01 615354454253447B57445D360 wrote:
I can assure you this didn't happen to WTC 2. I have friends I have spoken to about it about 5-6 years ago. Am I agreeing with webster here ? JOG - How big the fire needs to be depends on how low in the building it is and how hot it is ... and a gas or electrical fire can get extremely hot, still be relatively small and cause serious damage and barely be visible, and once the building is down, it may not even have been visible. Its easily explainable how it fell ... however where are you going with the building being demolished ? Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/19/13 at 05:44:27 Ill stick with the quotes from the firemen that the fires were not gonna be hard to handle, YOu Can NOT create symmetrical collapse with Asymmetrical damage. Period |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/19/13 at 05:56:10 213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:
OK demolitions are done with dynamite right ? dynamite has a distinch smell, not the general burning of say paper smell ... ask those firemen if they smelled that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/19/13 at 06:11:17 Ill stick with the quotes from the firemen that the fires were not gonna be hard to handle, YOu Can NOT create symmetrical collapse with Asymmetrical damage. I saw a 9/11 documentary and I distinctily remember firemen saying something different. I never heard anyone say the fires were not going to be hard to handle. I would need to see video of several experienced firemen (Captains) on the scene saying that, not written quotes. as far as symmetrical collapse; i told you about my experience shooting a disc of wax with a pellet gun; how it split into triangle pieces like it had been cut with a pizza cutter. the explanation of floors pancaking on top of one another makes the most sense. certainly far more than a conspriacy theory which would need to have hundreds of people involved and a complex plan which included placing hundreds of charges all wired together and detonated at the same time in 3 seperate buildings. Sorry, but that just does not seem even remotely possible. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/19/13 at 06:30:11 Nope, the clock disproves the Floors Pancaking idea. ERven the report says that didnt happen, Every time a floofr falls onto another there is energy absorbed & time spent. The towers fell too fast for that to have been the case. There were a few segments of time when building 7 very nearly achieved free fall speed. That means almost Zero resistance. A piece of wax shattering is quite different from hundreds of corner connections thru a building giving up all at the same time. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/19/13 at 07:00:20 5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:
Time spent ... of course there is time spent, 0 time does not exist ... how much time is the question. Free fall speed ? what is the speed of free fall ? you mean terminal velocity ? around 125 mph which is the speed of a human in a X formation in sky diving free fall ? not even a demolition acheives that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/19/13 at 07:08:07 Nope, the clock disproves the Floors Pancaking idea. ERven the report says that didnt happen, What report? The NIST says their working theory is undermind completely by the time it took the buildings to fall? I don't believe that's what the report says. Seismic data shows a gradual building up of shock waves |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/20/13 at 12:32:31 I cant bnelieve how obvious this is & how hard it is for [people to get it. How was it that metal was still glowing red when it was dug up weeks after? Not every explosive smells like dynamite, You REALLY think those Tall Skinny building fell straight down & would not have fallen over & that happened from a fire? REally? Lets GIVE the fire sufficient heat to make all that metal fail, Ill do that, its not possible, but, as a thot exercise, Ill do it.,. NOW, make that fire heat Every vertical member sufficiently to fail , all at the same time. If one main vertical member doesnt fail, then it falls Over, Now,, For the Pancake theory,, That whole idea is, Floor detaches from supports & Falls, knocking the next floor loose from Its supports & building up power as it falls, is that right? I need to understand what it is exactly that is being proposed here, so, someone, spell it out for me, |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/20/13 at 15:23:30 How was it that metal was still glowing red when it was dug up weeks after? 1) I'm not sure that is true. I would need to see video with some type of time stamp. I would not trust 'what someone says they saw'. I've heard some guy talk about what the firemen said, but when I read their full statments, it's clear he took what they said out of context for example. 2) Many materials retain heat and do not degrade quickly in a non-oxygen environment even without a constant replacment of energy source. I believe this is known as an exothermic reaction. I learned this the hard way selling carbon fiber when a ‘cooled’ load of partially carbonized fiber ignited after 16 hours or so when the heat built back up in the fiber while it sat in the warehouse. I have no idea if steel can have this same property. I do know tires can burn below surface for months if not years. You REALLY think those Tall Skinny building fell straight down & would not have fallen over & that happened from a fire? REally? I think it’s somewhat intuitive isn’t it? One section of the floor eventually gave way and broke free of the columns. As it fell, it pulled the other corners free since they were also weak. As it hit the floor below which was also weakened by the heat, they broke free and so on. At some point, they hit floors where the columns were unaffected by the heat, but the weight and energy was too great for them to support it so they gave way. If you’re saying the building fell straight down, that’s not true. Look at the videos and you can see a tiny shift to one side. The buildings were so large it looks like it fell straight down, but I can see a slight slant to one side. Just look at the video. Also, you can completely discard the ‘free fall’ theory as well. You can see in the video objects falling faster than the building. Look at it. Isn’t the reason because the floors were held up a fraction of a second until they broke free by the weight? At least for the first few floors; after that I doubt they offered any resistance. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/20/13 at 16:55:40 They broke free from WHAT? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/20/13 at 16:59:06 For a Troofer much of any engineering evidence makes no difference ... they'd use pseudo scientific jargon like "freefall" and so on to try to prove their point ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/20/13 at 17:26:12 They broke free from WHAT? What? floor joist are attached to columns in one fashion or another. i don't know what specific joint they used. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/20/13 at 17:28:01 If youd take the time to go study a few of the timed videos , (or did the NRA block those, too?) youd see that building 7, not hit by a plane, DID reach freefall speed, That you cant read that word & understand the significance isnt my problem. But, it means there was ZERO resistance from the buildings framework,., That means pancaking did not occur. However,, back to the Pancake theory, What was it the floors Broke Free FROM? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/20/13 at 18:11:40 A "video" gave you the knowledge that it reached free fall speed ? that is so cool ... didn't know you had a radar/lidar in your eye ... So now what is freefall speed ? the terminal velocity of ~125 mph of a sky diver ? Anyway a demolition with a toyota hilux truck sitting on it was filmed by the british top gear in 2006-07. That truck got to the top of the rubble sitting essentially intact. So a demolition doesn't reach freefall speed. Demolitions barely hit 30-40 mph but see I have not measured it, I dont have radar in my eyeballs. Must be the NRA that has blocked that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/20/13 at 18:35:34 JOG; please do not slip into the typical pattern many conspiracy enthusiast do by 1) insulting the one offering evidence against your beliefs. I am fairly certain I can read and comprehend data as well as you can and 2) by changing the topic. We were talking about the WTC towers, not building 7. The WTC did NOT fall at free fall speeds. That’s very easy to see. Are you saying the debris you see falling next to the building, which clearly is outpacing the bulk of the building, is being forced downward by a force? If so, what is that force? If no, why would the debris and the building not fall equally if, as you claim, the supporting columns of the towers were blown away? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 02/21/13 at 06:15:48 Thermite holds onto heat pretty well. Also, the building was designed to withstand a direct impact from a jet. Quote:
I know I've posted this before because it popped up in my previous searches. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/21/13 at 09:58:19 I’m not a chemist, but I’m pretty sure thermite does not retain or increase its heat supply in a non-oxygen environment like tires burning at the bottom of a landfill for example. Thermite seems like a pretty volatile material. Also, when you bring up the word thermite, it’s like sprinkling magic fairy dust over a conversation…. Since its properties are not well known by the average person, whenever the facts don’t meet a pre-conceived theory, it’s too easy to play the thermite card and presto-changeo; you can explain anything. How could bombers have planted enough explosives to blow the columns out without anyone noticing. Simple, a few grains of magic, military grade thermite would do the trick….. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. Smoldering metal buried underground prove or disprove nothing. It’s documented that fires burned in the rubble pile. But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower. And this means nothing as well. The towers withstood the collision. It was the fires that weakened the steel joints. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/21/13 at 09:59:34 By the way, the Titanic withstood the collision with the iceberg. It was the water leaking in that sunk her… |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 02/21/13 at 11:15:19 467473626574635C70637A110 wrote:
That made me chuckle. Thermite is not very well known. I do know that you could fill a flower pot, put it on the hood of a car, and if ignited will burn through the pot, hood, engine, and about 2 or three feet into the ground. You can't extinguish it. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/21/13 at 19:27:48 6756455646425643370 wrote:
It did stand up to the impact ... for several hours. Enough time to evacuate the building and then some, if not for fires, missing floors and stairways and other such problems. Of course we were not talking about WTC1 and 2 though that troofers claim was demolished. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/22/13 at 09:19:49 Lets go back to the pancake thing Once again Floor connections weaken floor lets go, falls floor below hit, knocked loose from supports Fall Now 2 floors falling strikes third floor, drives IT loose from its connections Is that an accurate description of the Pancake theory? Is that what you guys believe happened? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/22/13 at 10:03:11 I’ll say, yes, basically. Devils in the details of course, but yes. The only thing I’d add is that one corner broke free first. You can see this when the building above that floor leans to one side for a short instant until the supports broke free from the other corners and the whole thing fell down. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by bill67 on 02/22/13 at 11:03:51 Look up controlled demolition and you will see how difference a highrise falls when controlled. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/22/13 at 11:10:15 By the way, if your planned retort is what you’ve mentioned before which is the official NIST report rejected the pancake theory, I’d object. That makes little practical difference. They said the vertical column supports were weakened by heat and one began to fail. The downward force was transferred to other columns which were also weakened and collapse began. The weight of the building above crushed downward. They stopped there and went no further. From an accident reconstruction point of view and for engineering education, it’s important to understand exactly what happened, but it doesn’t bolster an conspiracy theory claims. (Other than it becomes a more convenient explanation for planting much fewer charges of magic pixie dust explosives) Regardless if the floor joist pulled away and pancaked down or the columns buckled, the result is the same and looks the same. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/22/13 at 20:55:51 The result is that 3 steel reinforced building went down, essentially in their own footprints, one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling, none prior or since have done what happened that day. Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane. The janitor of one of the buildings wasnt allowed to testify. He was the last man out of that building.,His statements contradict the official story. Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised. Their central columns, the elevator shafts, were very heavy steel. For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up,& for the NOT to be any part of that structure Stronger than the other parts, for the Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief., |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/23/13 at 06:46:39 The result is that 3 steel reinforced building went down, essentially in their own footprints, one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling, none prior or since have done what happened that day. Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane. The janitor of one of the buildings wasnt allowed to testify. He was the last man out of that building.,His statements contradict the official story. Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised. Their central columns, the elevator shafts, were very heavy steel. For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up,& for the NOT to be any part of that structure Stronger than the other parts, for the Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief., Let’s take this one step at a time. one was reported to have fallen some 20 minutes prior to it actually falling, This is nothing more a 'fog of war error' and has been correctly dismissed for years yet keeps coming up. Sort of like the ‘you can buy a brand new sports car for $500 but the only problem is 4 guys overdosed in it and no one can get the smell out’. I heard that in 1978 in high school. My son heard the same thing a couple years ago.... Lies and misinformation are hard to get rid of. What you’re alleging is The BBC network was in on the conspiracy and began their pre-planned on air announcement they had written up in advance 20 minutes before they knew someone was suppose to blow the building up. That’s absolute nonsense, stop repeating it. Here’s the transcript of the report: We'll leave it there for a moment. We've got some news just coming in actually, that the Solomon Brothers' Building in New York, right in the heart of Manhattan, has also collapsed. This does fit in with a warning from the British Foreign Office a couple of hours ago to British Citizens that there is a real risk -- ah let me get the exact words -- the British Foreign Office -- the foreign part of the British government -- said it was a strong risk of further atrocities in the United States, and it does seem as if there now is another one with the Solomon Brothers' Building collapsing. We've got no word yet on casualities. One assumes that the building would have been virtually deserted. Whether this latest collapse is going to influence the President, who we heard about a few moments ago, who was expected to be heading from Nebraska back to Washington, we don't know. We’ve heard this type of at every major incident. News agencies report rumors as facts. That’s all that happened here. I remember that day well, i was in Washington State and there was a report that the Sears Tower had been hit. Who knows where that report came from. none prior or since have done what happened that day. Correct, not a single 110 story sky scrapper has been hit by a plane full of thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel. No large luxury liner hit an iceberg in the same was as one did in April of 1915 either. Bldg 7 wasnt hit by a plane No, it wasn’t. It was hit by fallen debris and was evacuated and it’s collapsed spoken as a possibility for hours before. There are plenty of pictures showing fires inside and damage. Things with the height to width ratio of the twin towers TEND to fall over when compromised Tend to; what do you me tend to? Several million pounds were above the weak point that collapsed. When a pyramid of cheerleaders falls because someone in the middle buckles, they don’t fall over, they collapse downward because the lower levels are forced to accept more weight because it is no longer channeled equally across the lower levels. Do this experiment. Stand straight up, bend one knee up andstart to fall to that side. Now, after you’ve leaned a couple degrees to one side, let your other leg, which is now supporting all your weight, buckle. You will collapse in a footprint much smaller than your height. Again, watch slow motion video of the tower collapse. It does this exact same thing. For a building to collapse THRU the greatest point of resistance, straight down, thru everything that was meant to hold it up No, no no no! This is so untrue and is another LIE that needs to stop. Force is channel downward in multiple directions. Remove channels for that force to flow and it still continues to flow, only it flows to fewer channels. Everything was NOT meant to hold it up. All parts working together are meant to hold it up. That's like saying you can remove load bearing internal walls in your house with no fear of the roof collapsing because the outside walls can bear all the weight. Try it. Heat to have so perfectly weakened all that steel EQUALLY, is beyond belief. It did NOT heat equally. Once columns were weakend and could no longer carry the load, the load was directed onto other weakened columns and collapse was inevitable. Again, watch the slow motion videos. The tower above the impact zone begins to lean to one side and then the whole thing falls straight down as the weakend columns of the other sides of the building collapse from the extra weight load they are forced to carry. Every conspiracy claim can be countered a thousand times over. And I’ve not even asked you to come up with how the conspiracy was pulled off; how they planted charges unnoticed, how the charges in 3 buildings remain undamaged during a horrific fire until someone detonated them and on and on and on…. It’s time to put the 9/11 conspiracy to bed. It’s not true and it takes away from what really happened and how it could happen again if we get complacent who are enemies are. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 02/23/13 at 14:18:07 Webby ... no sense arguing with a Troofer. I cant believe I am taking your side on this still ... but I have realised troofers and birfers cant be reasoned with. Terms like Freefall speed and inside its own foot print all sound beautifully scientific except ... demolitions dont have free fall speeds, in fact demolitions are at different speeds depending on buildings and surroundings and location etc, and they routinely exceed their footprint too. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 02/24/13 at 14:37:19 See what you did JOG?... you put me and Srinath on the same side of an issue. thanks a lot... |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/13 at 18:19:09 Thats your mistake. Now youre both wrong. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/01/13 at 05:07:51 nope. I value your input on every other topic but this one JOG. I've yet to find any conspiracy theorist who can even begin to explain how explosive charges were planted, who and how many were involved etc.... Until you can realistically create a feasible story how that could have been done; ignoring evidence right in front of you and going through piles of ruble recreating an castrophic event after the fact is nonsense. I want one of you 9/11 guys to spend some time on how it could have been pulled off. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/13 at 09:27:07 They were doing an "elevator renovation" just prior. Employees there said in the weeks prior there were floors shut down & access was given to "maintenance". & Odd is it not that Just as this happened, the security company, headed by one of the Bush crime family, well,, their contract expired & they didnt try to keep it. & John Oniel ( sp?), who was a thorn in the side of the political establishment, was offered the job & died there that day. Suggest you spend a few hours looking for info that suports me, |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/01/13 at 09:39:29 Oooo cool the Bush crime family was involved ... OK I have to say, I'm going to let this topic be JOG's cos it works well to my Bush Bashing ... Throw in a few Cheney is the devil slogans and I'm all yours. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/13 at 10:43:12 Jeb declared martial law in Fla , prior to 9/11. Look it up. That whole clan is like a band of Gypsies, with each having their own "specialty" in crime. WEll, possibly with the exception of George, he just destroys businesses he owns & countries he gets in control of. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/01/13 at 11:06:33 Securacom This is as meaningless as the fact the Bush and Hinckley families knew each other. (both families were in the oil business; of course they knew each other…) I looked up Securacom. They had contracts for dozens of buildings and corporations. Kroll Inc. - Securacom sold security-related equipment to the New York Port Authority for the security of the World Trade Center. Securacom's contract for the sale of equipment was terminated in 1998. Marvin Bush, son of US president George H.W. Bush, and brother to US president George W. Bush, served on the board of directors from 1993- 2000, leaving prior to the attacks on the WTC. Again, you are doing the equivalent of going to a junk yard with a pre-conceived story and then looking for items that match your theory. Every item you come up with is easily explained away. Nothing you’ve given me so far is unanswered. Show me a verified copy of a memo which ordered the business’s in all 3 towers, on the two floors where the collapse started, (and I’ll accept any memo for building 7)stating they needed to evacuate their offices while they performed maintenance that for some unknown reason, could not be done at night? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/02/13 at 18:37:48 Have a look elevator renovation twin towers |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/13 at 06:03:59 elevator columns are not perimeter columns. Again, you would have to kick out numerous business, have them shut down for a couple days, tear apart the walls, find some way to place hundreds of pounds of explosives in hundreds of different areas in 3 different buildings and everything worked despite getting hit by planes traveling 500 mps and a 2000 degree fire. And now, no one can produce a memo or a hundred witness that could say "yes, i had to leave the 74 floor for two days" and someone else say "I had to leave the other tower etc....." If you are going to cite logic when you examine the wreckage of 9/11, all i'm asking is you use logic throughout the entire process. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/13 at 07:21:09 Mite be true, based on OUR knowledge of explosives. Im pretty sure there are things out there us little people arent privy to. The elevators were the guts of those buildings. Look at pics of construction. Those wouldnt have just fallen in on themselves. Buildings are Built with fire induced weakness taken into account, Architects & engineers agree with me.Lots of them |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/13 at 10:07:49 Architects & engineers agree with me.Lots of them lots of them do not. after all this time, any explosive that was secret back then would be common today. all i ask is for you or someone to explain a viable and reasonable plan how the explosive could have been planted in 3 large commercial buildings without anyone knowing. how dozens and dozens of people knew they were going to kill 25,000 people and no one has spilled the beans yet, how the planes hit the exact floors they needed to hit and how the explosvies remained intact and of course, why and who did this to begin with. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/13 at 17:29:43 754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
How many people knew about the atom bomb project that stayed a secret? How many knew it was a lie about what happened in North Vietnam that we went to war over where many thousands of our guys died? Why didnt tthey come forward & say WAIT,, This is wrong! WHO did it>? Why? Way too many suspects & reasons are myriad. For one, tho, look at the guy who leased them. Look at how he insured them. Also, note that the occupancy was low, they needed asbestos removed & they couldnt afford to take them down & they couldnt get a permit to blow them up. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/03/13 at 19:38:32 both of those are war situations which is vastly different and those secrets are out which by the way, is how the terrorist kept in a secret. By the way, it's been 12 years; if there were secrets, they'd be out by now. I guess it's time to punt on this. I will never, in a million years, believe for one second 9/11 was anything other than what it was. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 03/04/13 at 09:17:57 I will say it's been 12 years and ask why haven't they declassified all the information? Why is there any reason at all to doubt them if they have nothing to hide? --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/04/13 at 10:26:20 1F2E3D2E3E3A2E3B4F0 wrote:
Disaster response plans are national secret ... I dont think they can ever declassify all of em. However I dont think the govt blew up any buildings. Fires progress up the elevator and other internal passages. The buildings are insulated on the outside, not inside. It will hold the heat in. The collapse was indeed like a demolition, but I think a fire should also cause something similar. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/04/13 at 16:58:12 I will say it's been 12 years and ask why haven't they declassified all the information? Why is there any reason at all to doubt them if they have nothing to hide? what's not declassified? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Dj12midnit on 03/05/13 at 09:07:25 66677C7B74617D150 wrote:
That's why you have a driving test and a license and tons of checks and balances - like DUI check points, yearly inspections, yearly registration etc etc ... and guess what - you have insurance, try driving without it. Essentially you institute all that in a gun ownership right and we can talk. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] Here in Washington state Motorcycles are not required to have insurance, so we can remove that off your list. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/05/13 at 10:21:12 707E2526797D707A7D60140 wrote:
That's why you have a driving test and a license and tons of checks and balances - like DUI check points, yearly inspections, yearly registration etc etc ... and guess what - you have insurance, try driving without it. Essentially you institute all that in a gun ownership right and we can talk. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] Here in Washington state Motorcycles are not required to have insurance, so we can remove that off your list. [/quote] And in Idaho you dont have to wear a helmet ... when they consider everything around you is a lot bigger than you are, they assume you'd be very careful not to run into something ... No so with a car is it in WA ? I used to live in spokane BTW, great town. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Dj12midnit on 03/05/13 at 18:17:31 Have to have insurance for the car. We can also carry a gun. Open or concealed with a permit. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/05/13 at 18:56:37 49471C1F4044494344592D0 wrote:
And you can legally smoke pot ... I like it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/18/13 at 05:35:56 Not that there was EVER any validity to a Sandy Hook conspiracy theory, this should end any possible discussion. The findings are similar to the two Columbine murderers. They planned and worked on the details of their attack for years and the ability (or lack thereof) of a target to fight back was an important factor in being selected. The gunman behind the shooting massacre at Connecticut’s Sandy Hook Elementary School reportedly compiled extensive research about previous mass murders into a spreadsheet containing roughly 500 people. The New York Daily News reports that an obsessive Adam Lanza produced a spreadsheet 7 feet long and 4 feet wide in tiny 9-point font that required a special printer on past mass killings and attempted murders. “We were told [Lanza] had around 500 people on this sheet,” a law enforcement veteran told the newspaper. “Names and the number of people killed and the weapons that were used, even the precise make and model of the weapons. It had to have taken years. It sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research.” Twenty children and six adults were killed at the school on Dec. 14 by Lanza, who also killed his mother, Nancy Lanza, before taking his own life as police responded to the school. It has previously been reported that law enforcement officials found research about previous mass murderers at the Newtown, Conn., Lanza shared with his mother, but the extent of that research was not explicitly clear. A law enforcement veteran who attended the International Association of Police Chiefs and Colonels mid-year meeting in New Orleans last week — a conference where state police colonels share information — told columnist Mike Lupica that gunmen like Lanza should be referred to as “glory killers” instead of mass murderers. “They don’t believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet,” the unidentified career cop told Lupica. “This was the work of a video gamer, and that it was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.” Investigators also believe Lanza was determined not to be killed by responding officers, according to the unidentified officer. “They believe that [Lanza] believed that it was the way to pick up the easiest points,” he continued. “It’s why he didn’t want to be killed by law enforcement. In the code of a gamer, even a deranged gamer like this little bastard, if somebody else kills you, they get your points. They believe that’s why he killed himself. “They have pictures from two years before, with the guy all strapped with weapons, posing with a pistol to his head,” the officer continued. “That’s the thing you have to understand: He had this laid out for years before.” |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/18/13 at 07:28:50 Which is why he should be referred to as "mentally unstable killer" instead of by name, so future mentally unstable killers will not seek glory and martyrdom. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/18/13 at 08:34:02 . They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.” Which , once again, is the essesnce of WHY having "Gun Free" zones is STUPID. & The "Answer they want for us? Be unarmed. What do They want? Armed guards for themselves & their kids that we pay for. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Midnightrider on 03/18/13 at 12:27:04 "What do They want? Armed guards for themselves & their kids that we pay for" They put out a video for us to go after the armed madman gunman with a pair of scissors. Being the patriot that I am I'm selling off my gun collection and buy more scissors. Joe Biden wants us to empty our guns into the air if we have an intruder. Sounds like a plan to me. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/18/13 at 19:13:45 Gun free zones are stupid. We should post armed guards at every school, gas station, post office, hospital, bank, grocery store, liquor store, auto parts store, feed store and dmv in the country. The $100 per bullet tax will pay for arming and training people that work there. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/18/13 at 21:48:09 I dont know how many people remember the stories of sacrifice by the people & the volunteers who went off to WWII, but, considering the state of the nation & the qualified people who are unemployed, I wouldnt be at all surprised to find teachers willing to arm themselves & pay for their own training. YOur tax isnt a tax. Its a way to strip people of a weapon,period. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/19/13 at 05:21:35 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
I can see teachers wanting to be armed and trained and do it as a public service without getting paid. But if there aren't enough of those in a school, there will need to be people we are paying to do it. My tax is a way to prevent a rain of bullets cos no one can afford it. "Good people" dont need several 1000 bullets and the capability to rain it onto a crowd. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/19/13 at 05:33:32 & just exactly how is it you know what good people need? & How many guns does it take for a Gun Free Zone to no longer be gun free? Not a darn ONE,, Take the stupid sign down, make it legal for trained & licensed people to carry there. Thats it,All done with the Free Killing Zone. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/19/13 at 06:15:18 Just because the sign is no longer there dont make it a "gun zone". You have to get armed people in. IMHO people who are obviously armed. In fact I would prefer the sign stays on, and you have people authorised to carry carrying in the open. The advantage there is that anyone unauthorised to carry who does carry in there, we can penalise them more stiffly. One of those "This is a gun free zone except for these people to whom we have given permits to carry these mac 12's, beware, those mofo's are ready to bring the rain". Cool. Srinath. 7A656364797E4F7F4F77656922100 wrote:
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by WebsterMark on 03/19/13 at 15:08:22 & just exactly how is it you know what good people need? thank you JOG. I'll decide what i need, thank you very much. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/19/13 at 18:16:28 566463727564734C60736A010 wrote:
That is what the NRA recomends. Random gun carry into school and anywhere will remove the whole good vs bad thing, and we cant be certain we outnumber the bad with good. Ergo, we need to keep them gun free, except for the ones we have armed and dropped in there. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/13 at 07:50:22 No, Srinath, there is no need to actively drive guns into schools. Take the sign down. Make it legal for people to carry. Thats enough to make it No Longer a Safe Bet for a shooter. Or maybe you havent had time to snap to the fact that these shootings happen Precisely where there is No CHANCE of an armed response? pplications for gun permits have jumped in Newtown, Conn., since a school massacre there revived the national debate on gun control and led to worries about new restrictions. Newtown in recent years has issued about 130 gun permits annually. Police say the town received 79 permit applications in the three months since the Dec. 14 massacre, well over double the normal pace. Robert Berkins, records manager for Newtown police, says many applicants are expressing concerns that their gun rights will be taken away. These people have seen tragedy & are intelligent enough to see what the answer is. Being unarmed isnt smart. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/21/13 at 16:57:51 No no no hell no to just letting people walk into schools with guns. Why ? cos someone can easily trial run a few times, see how it is, see how easy it is to walk into the school, where the easiest targets are etc etc then walk into the school and get to the easy location and blow them all away. What we need is to keep the schools gun free except for the trained and armed and well screened people we have put in there. Maybe they can be teachers or other personnel, or outright cops or ex cops or other volunteers. It needs to be a gun free zone except for the people we have trained and armed and dropped in there. That way someone is in the school one time and is armed, we could arrest them and lock em up before they kill anyone. And gun permits and this and that etc etc just prove there are people on both sides of any problem. They are those that want to get guns before any new laws come in. I bought more bullets in the last few months than I did in the year before. I didn't shoot any either. Its a reaction to up coming laws. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/13 at 17:20:07 Well,, Lubys was gun free.. Now,, No signs,, |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/22/13 at 05:36:08 716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:
It may work in texas, in luby's or any other ... but in a school where large numbers of people wander in and out (believe it or not, it is more than a luby's) it will be too dangerous to have just no signs and not known authorised armed people. Unless of course you want to had every 6 year old a gun. Cos even in spite of the adults they possibly out number them say 10 to 1. So guaranteed 90% are unarmed. In some cases just being non gun free works, but in a school it does not. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/13 at 10:36:23 IDK hat "school" youre talkin about, but I dont know of ANY school you can walk up & walk into & not have to deal with someone, |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/22/13 at 17:41:55 594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
What you talking about ? I walk into my sons school all the time, I dont encounter anything but kids or other parents till I am ~30ft inside - and there too only if I opt to go in the office. I could walk nearly all the way through the school and not have any one ask me anything. I have dropped my son off @ chess club, 3/4 of the way into the main hallway, never had to deal with anyone. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/13 at 17:44:35 Where? |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/22/13 at 18:47:44 6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:
What you mean where ? you want to know what school ? I'm going to guess its every school in Charlotte NC, in mecklenberg county. But the schools I have wandered into (I had reason to go to them, but unless someone stopped me I'd not have to tell them, till I was at the right location) - its a pretty long list - I went to several dozen cos I had something from autism society to hand to them - From aware fare they award teachers grants etc, and it has to be gives to schools in order to have them know and compete, and being married to the erstwhile Co-president makes me the official errand boy. All of this was in mid feb to early march 2013 cos aware fare is in april. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/13 at 19:22:50 There are guard shacks & closed gates at the high schools in east texas. IDK about the elementary school & such.. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by Paraquat on 03/23/13 at 04:57:09 In both FL and here in CT we had an on-campus officer but there was no check point station, no metal detectors, no guard towers. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/23/13 at 07:58:41 There is nothing, no on campus nothing in NC. I saw a cop by the school few days after newtown, but now nothing. I guess they are debating what should be banned and that's what is important. The NRA needs to make sure everything that happens is toothless. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/23/13 at 12:48:07 You agree guns are needed but you somehow see the nra as YOur enemy? Why? YOu dont even know how much you love them,,I, OTOH, despise them. They are part of the game. They work to allow gun control.. They helped in th 68 gun control act. Ive seen oard members recommend single shots as "all any good hunter needs". They are NOT 2nd amenment people,they suck |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by rfw2003 on 03/23/13 at 13:27:58 Well here in TX I know of at least 1 school that is taking matters into it's own hands and arming the teachers. Van ISD school board voted in to allow certain faculty and employee's to carry during school and school events. They even paid for the concealed carry class and some additional 1 on 1 training if the teachers wanted it. There was one incident though during the class during the 1 on 1 with one of the selected maintenance workers when his firearm was malfunctioning and the instructor was helping him with it, the gun had a accidental discharge and the bullet ricocheted and hit the maintenance worker in the leg. The worker is fine and recovering with no ill effects from the wound. I think it's a sad world we live in now that we are having to get an armed presence in our schools, but at least here in TX at least one of the schools is taking a stand and doing something to protect our children when the parents and other guiding influences out there won't teach our children the basic values that we were taught long ago. It's one thing to tell our children to respect a firearm but a totally different thing to teach them the respect of life and the values of morality, which is something extremely lacking in the current generation of children being raised, as witnessed by the increase in violence within this group. I saw alot of this starting when I was finishing up high school with the lack of discipline and structure in homes from the younger group of children coming up in the school below me, and it's just been escalating from there. Sorry I'm starting to vent now and better stop since I'm getting off subject. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/24/13 at 09:09:56 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
I'd rather see a $100 per bullet tax payable cash only at purchase. Then for schools, I'd find and screen a few paid employees who would be visibly armed @ every crucial location - all doors, play ground, and main intersections - My sons school I count about 7-8 locations - where there would be paid security professional personnel - we have tons of unemployment and military personnel would fit into this well. Volunteers could be whacko's or about to go over, and we need a full on screening and psych test. Guns do have a purpose my friend. And I dont take the "Good guy with a gun" as in "unpaid unknown un screened random guy with a gun" - the "good guy with a gun" will be "qualified, tested and well known good guy with a gun" - This will be paid for by the $100 bullet tax. If we dont collect enough via bullet taxes, we'd print the $$ and we'd not listen to republicons squealing about government spending. Cos this is a problem they caused. This is a 100 year problem. Too us over 100 years to get here, may take us over 100 years to get out if ever. Sorta like dumping chemicals into the ground. You can do it in a few years and have a problem bad enough it would never be solved. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by rfw2003 on 03/24/13 at 12:41:30 Well I just finished doing a little more searching, and it seems there are more schools here in TX where the school boards are voting in to allow teachers to be armed in the schools. If you do a Google search for Texas schools arming teachers you will find several news articles on this naming some of the schools where this is happening. The school boards have to approve which teachers or other faculty will be allowed to carry and they also have to get the ccl and training to be able to carry. I guess like always we can count on us Texans to take the first step in using our firearms to protect ourselves and those around us regardless of what the rest of the U.S. thinks. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/24/13 at 14:39:07 Texans love their guns ... much like New yorkers love their transhit and Californians love their cars. For those states where there isn't hordes of teachers lining up to do more work for no more $$$ my suggestion could be used. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/13 at 17:15:10 Texans love their Freedom & are Happy to accept personal responsibilty. Your idea is Moronic , Useless & is a roadblock to the RIGHT of the People to Keep & Bear Arms, PLease, Go Away,, |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/24/13 at 17:21:55 I've lived in texas, they dont take no responsibility more than CA or NC or SC (oh no, not SC - probably not) or NY or WA or ID or MA or PA (all states I have lived in or lived very very very close to). You dont know what you're talking about ... your idea is as good as "flooding a diesel fire with diesel to put it out" I aint going anywhere, I need to dispel the Republicon garbage from the 91% (as I have currently been told) Besides. gun for self defence - someone who spends the kind on $$ on a gun, wont care about a few 100 on bullets if it is self defence. Once the defending is done, they get a refund. I think this idea bugs you cos you know it is correct. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/13 at 18:01:27 No, it bugs me cuz its stupid. |
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Title: Re: Story Retraction: Authorities Say Newtown Shoo Post by srinath on 03/25/13 at 04:57:56 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
So you say. Your idea sounds stupid to me too. I dont call you names (unless you did first - and I know that is a lameo excuse cos I am over 8). Cool. Srinath. |
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